1 hour ago, Beats said:

What's Salem's trade value? He's out of contract next year, so a trade now might be our best chance at getting value for him.

He is competing with the likes of Hunt, Melksham, Bugg, Lumumba, Wagner (and Hibberd if we pick him up) for that rotating hbf/ mid spot. You can also add the likes of Vandenburg, Stretch, Harmes, Trengove, M.jones as others who are competing for rotating hbf/ hff/ part time mid roles. While his kicking is an asset, I don't see him as a class above many of those I've listed above and I don't think he's guaranteed a game when he's fit.

If a club offered up a pick in the late teens for him, would you do it? Would you be happy to see him go as part of a trade if it nets us a big fish?

Never. A pick in the late teens is not going to get you a 'big fish'. We need to build a 'Sydney-like' culture. You don't do that by trading out the likes of Salem or Trengove.

3 minutes ago, M_9 said:

Never. A pick in the late teens is not going to get you a 'big fish'. We need to build a 'Sydney-like' culture. You don't do that by trading out the likes of Salem or Trengove.

I agree Salem is an exciting prospect that I wouldnt  trade 4 a speculative pick. He needs 2 play high half forward or midfield.

If we do manage to get Hibberd, it will take some pressure off of Salem. It would could also potentially free up Vince.

I have observed lately fans starting to entertain trading Salem. But this isn't like trading Toumpas. Christian Salem has far too many strengths, and not enough weaknesses for us to trade him away for a speculative youngster. Toumpas had some glaring weaknesses till the end. Salem doesn't have many. We haven't seen what Salem is capable of yet. In the juniors he was relentless in his ferocity. Give the kid a bit of time, he is still only 20.

Edited July 7, 20169 yr by KingDingAling

46 minutes ago, samcantstandya said:

I agree Salem is an exciting prospect that I wouldnt  trade 4 a speculative pick. He needs 2 play high half forward or midfield.

At this stage I'm all for hold and patiently develop. Think he's an exciting prospect, especially further upfield where his pinpoint passes would be a forwards dream.

Crazy, crazy, crazy it would be to trade Salem. A must keep. 

22 hours ago, Jaded said:

You can't compare the difficulty of the role of OMac versus the role of Salem

Being a key position defender is much harder than playing on the 6th best forward and being an attacking defender

Defensively Salem is average, but offensively he is excellent

Comparing the two is like comparing oranges to chickens

 

Orange chicken is a pretty nice dish though I don't think they serve it at Rocksalt in Bay Street, Brighton, the Salem familys' restaurant. 

I'd only trade Salem if it had something to do with Hurley coming to MFC.

23 hours ago, M_9 said:

Never. A pick in the late teens is not going to get you a 'big fish'. We need to build a 'Sydney-like' culture. You don't do that by trading out the likes of Salem or Trengove.

Firstly, read my post again, your comprehension of it was poor. Secondly, you might want to have a look back through Sydney's trades:

2008- Ryan O'keefe was on the trade table (only 6 trades done for the year)
2009- Traded out Barry Hall and Darren Jolly
2010- Traded out Patrick Veszpremi
2011- Traded out Lewis Johnston
2012- Traded out Campbell Heath, Matt Spangher, Trent Dennis Lane
2013- Traded out Mumford, Jesse White and Andrejs Everett.

Patrick Veszpremi and Lewis Johnston were literally in the same place that Salem is in now. Talented first round picks with a handful of games under their belts and checkered injury histories.

If anything the Sydney culture was to trade out players with value to bring in better players or players who better suited their needs.

Edited July 8, 20169 yr by Beats

23 hours ago, KingDingAling said:

If we do manage to get Hibberd, it will take some pressure off of Salem. It would could also potentially free up Vince.

I have observed lately fans starting to entertain trading Salem. But this isn't like trading Toumpas. Christian Salem has far too many strengths, and not enough weaknesses for us to trade him away for a speculative youngster. Toumpas had some glaring weaknesses till the end. Salem doesn't have many. We haven't seen what Salem is capable of yet. In the juniors he was relentless in his ferocity. Give the kid a bit of time, he is still only 20.

Trading Salem is not like trading Toumpas, you are correct. The reason I asked what people thought of his trade value was because he is one of the only players on our list who has value and is playing in a position with lots of depth. 

So, what is his trade value? Anyone want to throw up a response that isn't 'don't trade, best player ever etc.'

1 minute ago, Beats said:

Trading Salem is not like trading Toumpas, you are correct. The reason I asked what people thought of his trade value was because he is one of the only players on our list who has value and is playing in a position with lots of depth. 

So, what is his trade value? Anyone want to throw up a response that isn't 'don't trade, best player ever etc.'

Look trading Salem is not an absurd idea but the price would have to be right. A pick outside the top 10 is not enough. No, he hasnt proved that kind of worth but giving him up for any less means a big loss. If a trade for him involved bringing in some more mature talent who fills a void we need desperatly then we can talk, but until then we should be looking closer at contract extentions for Salem than trades.
 

Amazed that the possibility of Salem being traded is even being contemplated.

Whilst Roos has on more than one occasion proffered the "everyone is tradeable (if the right offer comes along)", it would have to be a damn good offer for Salem to be considered.

His tackling ferocity (Jeremy Cameron last game last year) coupled with his composure and tidy kicking skills (1st game against Essendon), clearly marked him as a 'keeper' who is very well suited to the modern game (i.e. Hawthorn style).

It's not as if we are blessed with an abundance of players with good skill sets.

2 hours ago, Beats said:

Firstly, read my post again, your comprehension of it was poor. Secondly, you might want to have a look back through Sydney's trades:

2008- Ryan O'keefe was on the trade table (only 6 trades done for the year)
2009- Traded out Barry Hall and Darren Jolly
2010- Traded out Patrick Veszpremi
2011- Traded out Lewis Johnston
2012- Traded out Campbell Heath, Matt Spangher, Trent Dennis Lane
2013- Traded out Mumford, Jesse White and Andrejs Everett.

Patrick Veszpremi and Lewis Johnston were literally in the same place that Salem is in now. Talented first round picks with a handful of games under their belts and checkered injury histories.

If anything the Sydney culture was to trade out players with value to bring in better players or players who better suited their needs.

Your original post made no sense. Salem is not competing with the likes of Bugg, Lumumba, Wagner nor Melksham. It's akin to saying that Kent and Watts are competing with each other because they both play forward pocket (at times).

Besides, O'keefe had played 286 games, was 33 years old, and was told he would struggle to get a game if he stayed. He was not 'on the trade table'. He was a free agent.

Hall played 162 games over 8 years. Jolly played 118 games over 5 years at the Swans and only left because his wife said she was returning to Melbourne, with or without him.

Mumford had to go to for salary cap reasons, but equally for opportunity. The others you have listed were not even close to first round picks, and most were not getting games.

I can't recall the Swans gaining any 'big fish' as a result of trading out a young player, who has shown promising signs, but has been cruelled with medical issues.

17 hours ago, M_9 said:

Your original post made no sense. Salem is not competing with the likes of Bugg, Lumumba, Wagner nor Melksham. It's akin to saying that Kent and Watts are competing with each other because they both play forward pocket (at times).

Besides, O'keefe had played 286 games, was 33 years old, and was told he would struggle to get a game if he stayed. He was not 'on the trade table'. He was a free agent.

Hall played 162 games over 8 years. Jolly played 118 games over 5 years at the Swans and only left because his wife said she was returning to Melbourne, with or without him.

Mumford had to go to for salary cap reasons, but equally for opportunity. The others you have listed were not even close to first round picks, and most were not getting games.

I can't recall the Swans gaining any 'big fish' as a result of trading out a young player, who has shown promising signs, but has been cruelled with medical issues.

It made plenty of sense. I asked for an estimate of Salem's trade value. I asked the question that if a club offered up a pick in the late teens, would you do it. I then asked a secondary question, would you let him go as part of a trade for a big fish? You seem to have combined the two questions in to one, ergo, your comprehension was poor. 

If Salem doesn't compete for a spot with Bugg, Lumumba, Wagner or Melksham who does he compete for a spot against? What role do you think he plays?

In 2008 O'keefe was 27, on the trade table and free agency hadn't been introduced. Only 6 trades were done for the year, but his name was frequently mentioned during trade week. Lewis Johnston and Patrick Veszpremi were first round picks, both traded after 2 years in the system. You're right, they didn't bring in any big fish from those trades though.

20 hours ago, Beats said:

Firstly, read my post again, your comprehension of it was poor. Secondly, you might want to have a look back through Sydney's trades:

2008- Ryan O'keefe was on the trade table (only 6 trades done for the year)
2009- Traded out Barry Hall and Darren Jolly
2010- Traded out Patrick Veszpremi
2011- Traded out Lewis Johnston
2012- Traded out Campbell Heath, Matt Spangher, Trent Dennis Lane
2013- Traded out Mumford, Jesse White and Andrejs Everett.

Patrick Veszpremi and Lewis Johnston were literally in the same place that Salem is in now. Talented first round picks with a handful of games under their belts and checkered injury histories.

If anything the Sydney culture was to trade out players with value to bring in better players or players who better suited their needs.

Salem is more talented than either Johnston or Veszpremi. I don't want him traded.

53 minutes ago, Beats said:

It made plenty of sense. I asked for an estimate of Salem's trade value. I asked the question that if a club offered up a pick in the late teens, would you do it. I then asked a secondary question, would you let him go as part of a trade for a big fish? You seem to have combined the two questions in to one, ergo, your comprehension was poor. 

If Salem doesn't compete for a spot with Bugg, Lumumba, Wagner or Melksham who does he compete for a spot against? What role do you think he plays?

In 2008 O'keefe was 27, on the trade table and free agency hadn't been introduced. Only 6 trades were done for the year, but his name was frequently mentioned during trade week. Lewis Johnston and Patrick Veszpremi were first round picks, both traded after 2 years in the system. You're right, they didn't bring in any big fish from those trades though.

Two points:

I would not offer the likes of Salem or Watts up for trade, regardless of what trade was put on the table (unless they wanted out). Jack has said he wants to stay. Salem has given no indication he wants out. I doubt any other club would take the risk with Christian.

Lumumba, White and Wagner are all 188-189, significantly taller than Salem. We know nothing about Melksham as a HBF'er. He's played 4 games in that position, and Bomber fans will tell you that his disposal, particularly under pressure, is as poor, if not worse than T Mac and Frost.

Salem offers something we do not have in our backline - calmness and good disposal under pressure. I think Grimes will request a trade, and Melksham will prove a 'bust'.

Besides all that, how's our record as regards snaring 'big fish' - Dawes, Clark?

How are 'big fish' going at their new clubs - Tom Boyd, Dane Beams, Trealor, Aish, Dixon and Zac Smith (are they 'big fish')

We haven't seen the best of Salem by a long way this season, and I'm guessing, but I reckon it has a lot to do with his health problems.  If he can get them 100% under control (perhaps a lot easier said than done) then he has huge upside imo.  You can't have too many 'top liners' with his skill set, and he is one of maybe three on our current list.

On 6/16/2016 at 9:07 AM, Theo said:

Patrick Cripps is probably the one that got away. Would be a top 5 pick if the draft was held today.

it would be out of him and the Bont for number 1. Daylight between those two and the others,

6 hours ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

it would be out of him and the Bont for number 1. Daylight between those two and the others,

I'd take the Bont. He's an awesome talent.

And I'd keep Christian. By definition, we're not going to get value for him because he's all upside. He's in the same position trade wise as Watts was a couple of times - not worth letting go of for what you'd get.

FWIW, he'll be fine, and will end up a star.

On 08/07/2016 at 5:17 PM, Beats said:

Firstly, read my post again, your comprehension of it was poor. Secondly, you might want to have a look back through Sydney's trades:

2008- Ryan O'keefe was on the trade table (only 6 trades done for the year)
2009- Traded out Barry Hall and Darren Jolly
2010- Traded out Patrick Veszpremi
2011- Traded out Lewis Johnston
2012- Traded out Campbell Heath, Matt Spangher, Trent Dennis Lane
2013- Traded out Mumford, Jesse White and Andrejs Everett.

Patrick Veszpremi and Lewis Johnston were literally in the same place that Salem is in now. Talented first round picks with a handful of games under their belts and checkered injury histories.

If anything the Sydney culture was to trade out players with value to bring in better players or players who better suited their needs.

Hawthorn wanted O'Keefe, Sydney said no. Kept him against his will.

Hall and Jolly were about rebuilding and off field issues. Hall had lost the plot. Jolly had to move to Melbourne for family reasons.

Spangher and TDL were depth players. The 2013 trades were obviously Buddy related.

There are similarities with Veszpremi and Johnston. But both had work ethic concerns and had shown nothing similar (besides a couple of ok games from Veszpremi) to what Salem has shown. 

I'd put those 2 in a similar bracket to Toumpas. I'd have Salem more like Gary Rohan, who the Swans have always stuck with.

Just as Sydney always need Rohan's pace, we are crying out for a utility with Salem's skills right now. We've found lots of players who can run and win the ball, we badly need someone with a bit of class who can play forward, back or in the midfield.