This is my situation:

1. I have already extended my contract til the end of next year. As in: the end of next year.

2. Next year has unknowns. Firstly I'm  getting a new, first-time, largely untried boss. This may be good, I like the guy, but...

3. My dad is pretty ill and I'm 20. I don't know how this may pan out.

4. The club is keen for me to re-sign so they can plan. This would be nice for them.

5. The media and Demonlanders have little else to talk about.

6. I have already extended my contract til the end of next year. (Yes I may have mentioned this before).

Points decision: think I'll wait a bit.

1 hour ago, General Malaise said:

This is my situation:

1. I have already extended my contract til the end of next year. As in: the end of next year.

2. Next year has unknowns. Firstly I'm  getting a new, first-time, largely untried boss. This may be good, I like the guy, but...

3. My dad is pretty ill and I'm 20. I don't know how this may pan out.

4. The club is keen for me to re-sign so they can plan. This would be nice for them.

5. The media and Demonlanders have little else to talk about.

6. I have already extended my contract til the end of next year. (Yes I may have mentioned this before).

Points decision: think I'll wait a bit.

You mentioned youself seven times and the club only once. I think that says it all really. 

3 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

You mentioned youself seven times and the club only once. I think that says it all really. 

In general that will happen when you are talking from the first person.

I'm with General Malaise, that's how it would play out in most people's minds. Club loyalty will be A factor, but his family circumstance will be another, and so will what is best for his career. It doesn't make him an @rse if he ends up doing what is best for him and his family. It would be great if his needs align perfectly to the clubs but if they don't most people will put their own and their family's needs first. To me that seems good and right. Lets just hope they do align and that if they don't we can make it work well for the club. I, for one, won't be hating on Jesse if that is the way it goes.

I'd climax over Fyfe for Hogan. But we've got to get another key forward then before the season starts

I see a lot of posters state that Hogan is 20, he's not, he's 21.  In fact, he turns 22 in February, which means he plays all of next year as a 22 year old. 

If you're going to quote his age you may as well be accurate. 

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

I see a lot of posters state that Hogan is 20, he's not, he's 21.  In fact, he turns 22 in February, which means he plays all of next year as a 22 year old. 

If you're going to quote his age you may as well be accurate. 

Commentators do it far too often also.

It's weird.

Edited September 24, 20168 yr by stevethemanjordan

I want Hogan to sign more then anyone, but watching the doggies proved you dont need the big hulking forwards to win you games of football. Just 22 solid contributers.

While it will be disappointing if Hogan did leave, i definitely won't lose sleep over it.

1 minute ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I want Hogan to sign more then anyone, but watching the doggies proved you dont need the big hulking forwards to win you games of football. Just 22 solid contributers.

While it will be disappointing if Hogan did leave, i definitely won't lose sleep over it.

On the contrary, Jeremy Cameron highlighted the value of a quality key forward.  If Cameron plays even a poor to average game they win.  He plays an utter stinker (1 mark - no goals) and will have nightmares for 6 months.

Great teams with a great key forward will give you the chance of a dynasty.  Great teams with no great key forward 'may' sneak a flag.

The Swans will have to have a mare next week for Dogs to get up. 

 

54 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I want Hogan to sign more then anyone, but watching the doggies proved you dont need the big hulking forwards to win you games of football. Just 22 solid contributers.

While it will be disappointing if Hogan did leave, i definitely won't lose sleep over it.

I'm the same, I really want Hogan to stay but if he doesn't want to sign then we get the most out of him next year and get a good deal for the club when (if) he asks for a trade.

 

13 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

I'm seeing a number of posts along the lines that Jesse is under no obligation to either sign or signal his intentions until his contract has concluded next year. This is perfectly true. Likewise, if I came across a person horribly injured in the street I am under no obligation to provide assistance or even call for help. My point of course is that just because we are within our rights to do something does not mean that we should, or that is the right thing to do. 

Hogan is well aware of the importance his decision has to the club in planning their trades and drafting strategies. While he is indeed well within his rights to wait, the right thing to do, the act of integrity, is to give his club the information they need as quickly as possible.

The problem is that most player agents are cowboys, and many of them are formerly of player union circles, and as such they go to great lengths to keep the clubs as far out of the loop as possible. Malthouse, Matthews, Eade, Mark Williams, and Lyon have all said as much, hinted that managers act like they're in it for their client but really they're in it for themselves. The best "business" decision isn't always signing the bigger contract. Sometimes that's actually the worst business decision. But it's an immediate payback to the manager who benefits significantly for the duration of the playing contract. 

Hogan won't do the "right thing" and he won't do what's right for the club. This is not between "Hogan and Melbourne", it's between Hogan's management and Melbourne.

As such, we should not allow ourselves to be in another Frawley-Scully situation. Sign an extension, or you'll be traded.

17 hours ago, AngryAtCasey said:

Hypothetical trade scenario taking into account:

Hogan to WA, Fyfe to a Melb based club (not necessarily Dees), Hibberd to Melbourne, recent article about GWS wanting Pick 1.

Melbourne send Hogan to Fremantle & Garland to GWS

Fremantle send Fyfe to Essendon & Pick 3 to Melbourne.

GWS send Pick 7 & Cam McCarthy to Freo & James Stewart to Melbourne

Essendon send Pick 1 to GWS & Hibberd to Melbourne.

Essendon loose Pick 1 & Hibberd but gain Fyfe

Fremantle loose Fyfe & Pick 3 but gain Hogan, McCarthy & Pick 7

GWS loose McCarthy, Stewart & Pick 7 but gain Pick 1 & Garland

Melbourne loose Hogan & Garland but gain Pick 3, Hibberd & Stewart.

Reasonably balanced?

Much rather have Fyfe and pick 3 to Melbourne for Hogan.

13 minutes ago, praha said:

 

Hogan won't do the "right thing" and he won't do what's right for the club. This is not between "Hogan and Melbourne", it's between Hogan's management and Melbourne.

As such, we should not allow ourselves to be in another Frawley-Scully situation. Sign an extension, or you'll be traded.

Do you really believe that?

You think a Manager decides what a player does and where he plays. You clearly do not understand the situation.  

You assume the Manager will stuff us up and we should trade Jesse now. 

Lets trade everyone on the list now because their Managers might not let their little boys extend their contracts when they expire. Wow just wow. 

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

On the contrary, Jeremy Cameron highlighted the value of a quality key forward.  If Cameron plays even a poor to average game they win.  He plays an utter stinker (1 mark - no goals) and will have nightmares for 6 months.

Great teams with a great key forward will give you the chance of a dynasty.  Great teams with no great key forward 'may' sneak a flag.

The Swans will have to have a mare next week for Dogs to get up. 

 

Yep, I think a lot of next weeks game will hang on Buddy.

If the Dogs can hold him they will go a long way to winning it.

If Buddy gets going early it will be a hard one to win.

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

On the contrary, Jeremy Cameron highlighted the value of a quality key forward.  If Cameron plays even a poor to average game they win.  He plays an utter stinker (1 mark - no goals) and will have nightmares for 6 months.

Great teams with a great key forward will give you the chance of a dynasty.  Great teams with no great key forward 'may' sneak a flag.

The Swans will have to have a mare next week for Dogs to get up. 

 

Who was Geelong's great key forward? I don't even think Hawthorn had one after Buddy left.

IMO last nights game showed how effective modern team defensive strategies have become at nullifying the power forwards. Cameron clearly didn't work hard enough last night, but there wasn't many instances I saw where he was involved in the play and made significant errors. (I would also doubt he covered significantly different territory than his usual distance covered.) And this was against a Dogs team that has a below average set of tall defenders.

I loved the game in the 80s and 90s when key forwards were the most important players in the game. But the game has changed and coaches are not willing to let key forwards contest one on one. The midfield is where most games are now won and lost.

I suspect Praha there is much to that . 

The 'special' circumstances of what maybe Jesse's dilemma and current concern aside , there is that which has been raised before and that goes to the determined deferral of signing. 

Why this could not have been sorted much earlier is the pivot really of all discussion. 

What was unknown ? I can't think of anything. The cba could always have been allowed for and factored in. The coaching handover was well understood. So what was/is really the impediment ?

I've said for a long while and repeated this just the other night at a dinner some here attended , that I've just had this gut feeling Hogan has never 100℅ bought into this club. The notion he isn't sure where he'll be supports this.

I won't surprise me if he goes. If so so be it. 

We are no longer centric upon one player.

Im somewhat over it all. Though he will undoubtedly be a very good player, often, he's not the player I think many here elevate him to.

Hope things turnout for the best for him as far as family go, but if he's not in red and blue .well , we'll still be fine. 

He's just one bloke. There's 18 of them on that side of the line on any given day.

Eggs and baskets.....

 

 

Edited September 24, 20168 yr by beelzebub

4 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Who was Geelong's great key forward? I don't even think Hawthorn had one after Buddy left.

IMO last nights game showed how effective modern team defensive strategies have become at nullifying the power forwards. 

What about Patton's 4 goals? He looked pretty effective.

Also, Hawkins, JPod and Mooney all say hi.

Edited September 24, 20168 yr by 71 Molloy

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

On the contrary, Jeremy Cameron highlighted the value of a quality key forward.  If Cameron plays even a poor to average game they win.  He plays an utter stinker (1 mark - no goals) and will have nightmares for 6 months.

Great teams with a great key forward will give you the chance of a dynasty.  Great teams with no great key forward 'may' sneak a flag.

The Swans will have to have a mare next week for Dogs to get up. 

 

I think GWS lost it when their midfielder Ward went off. Their power forwards other than Cameron went pretty well.

5 minutes ago, 71 Molloy said:

What about Patton's 4 goals? He looked pretty effective.

Also, Hawkins, JPod and Mooney all say hi.

Lobb pretty effective too.

4 minutes ago, 71 Molloy said:

What about Patton's 4 goals? He looked pretty effective.

Also, Hawkins, JPod and Mooney all say hi.

Patton played well last night, but no better than Smith or Dickson. And it doesn't change the fact that the Coleman winner's goal tally has declined over the last 20 years.

And none of Hawkins, Podsiadly or Mooney were "great key forwards" from 2007 to 2011. (Hawkins had a great grand final.) Geelong's dynasty was build on its midfield and defence.

21 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I suspect Praha there is much to that . 

The 'special' circumstances of what maybe Jesse's dilemma and current concern aside , there is that which has been raised before and that goes to the determined deferral of signing. 

Why this could not have been sorted much earlier is the pivot really of all discussion. 

What was unknown ? I can't think of anything. The cba could always have been allowed for and factored in. The coaching handover was well understood. So what was/is really the impediment ?

I've said for a long while and repeated this just the other night at a dinner some here attended , that I've just had this gut feeling Hogan has never 100℅ bought into this club. The notion he isn't sure where he'll be supports this.

I won't surprise me if he goes. If so so be it. 

We are no longer centric upon one player.

Im somewhat over it all. Though he will undoubtedly be a very good player, often, he's not the player I think many here elevate him to.

Hope things turnout for the best for him as far as family go, but if he's not in red and blue .well , we'll still be fine. 

He's just one bloke. There's 18 of them on that side of the line on any given day.

Eggs and baskets.....

 

 

Well thought out post. 

Agree on your thoughts re the CBA. Clubs and player managers would have a fair idea on what the CBA is going to provide. 

Could easily have been factored in, in my view. 

Like you I wouldn't be surprised if he decides to go.  If he does all we can do is get the best possible trade for our club and move on.

 

14 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Who was Geelong's great key forward? I don't even think Hawthorn had one after Buddy left.

IMO last nights game showed how effective modern team defensive strategies have become at nullifying the power forwards. Cameron clearly didn't work hard enough last night, but there wasn't many instances I saw where he was involved in the play and made significant errors. (I would also doubt he covered significantly different territory than his usual distance covered.) And this was against a Dogs team that has a below average set of tall defenders.

I loved the game in the 80s and 90s when key forwards were the most important players in the game. But the game has changed and coaches are not willing to let key forwards contest one on one. The midfield is where most games are now won and lost.

Geelong had Ottens as a terrific forward/ruck, as well as a quality key forward in Hawkins.  Not to mention about 8 All Australians one year.  That helps too, but less likely in an 18 team comp.

Hawthorn had the Roughead and Franklin combo.  How do you think that worked ?  Roughead isn't a typical key forward in that he's more a one on one contested mark and great on the ground, but how many key defenders did he occupy ?   Imagine being a great ground level player feeding off their spoils.

How did Brisbane go with Lynch, Brown and Bradshaw ?

It's silly to suggest you can't win a GF without a star key forward and it's sillier to suggest clubs wouldn't want one if there was one available.  It's one thing trying to survive and thrive without one and another to devalue the importance of one.  Just because Hawthorn won in 2015 without one doesn't suddenly make it desirable to not have one on your list.  Do you think Clarko would have played one if he had one ?

There's no doubt the game has changed and defensive pressure all over the ground has never been more important, but any club wants a contested marking, hard running, goal-kicking key tall.  Which is why Nick Riewoldt is still causing havoc running around kicking 9 goals.

Hogan's best is as a hard running aggressive CHF.  And if you think a great one isn't worth their weight in gold we clearly see footy differently.

10 hours ago, RalphiusMaximus said:

You mentioned youself seven times and the club only once. I think that says it all really. 

Well that's pretty much one of my points. It's one aspect only among many.

You're right though, I could have repeated it 7 times to even the argument up for you.

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

Do you really believe that?

You think a Manager decides what a player does and where he plays. You clearly do not understand the situation.  

You assume the Manager will stuff us up and we should trade Jesse now. 

Lets trade everyone on the list now because their Managers might not let their little boys extend their contracts when they expire. Wow just wow. 

Really Red. The old all or nothing defence ?

If managers had no relevance and influence there would be none. They are increasing their influence because one, they can and two, is in their interest to do so and three , all managers want to in the same manner pollies never vote down a pay rise.

Ultimately Jesse will decide ( if not already ) his course but to think it's not his managers fashioning those options is rather unbelievable for mine.

Player managers share dna with Real estate agents I'm sure 

Demonland provides the sad realisation that we spend more time worrying about our players leaving then enjoying September football.

The media talk about the dogs drought, all they have to do is come online here and see the real supporters pain.

And with all the crap being said in here, Jesse is still in the top 5 most important people to help us into September. 

How sad it is....

Player makes a decision on where he wants to go and manager makes sure he gets the best possible dollars and contract term possible for that player - sounds quite simple. 

Was said on radio the other day that some clubs can't stand particular managers.  They have threatened clubs with influencing other players they manage to move to another club if hey do not meet demands for a particular player.

Was also said that Brisbane would have likely passed on Weitering if they had first pick in the draft last year and picked Schace at number one because they have a crap relationship with Weiterings manager.