Jack Watts in 2016?

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

Just now, ProDee said:

Not too many players surprise you over the journey.

Jamar, Watts, Frawley, Garland (for a time), Morton (for the wrong reasons), Jetta and the list goes on.  I get very few right.

Christ, even Scull Scull seems to have it together and it's taken him a very long time.  I reckon lots of players surprise over the journey.

[Gator 16,892]

Just now, Vogon Poetry said:

Jamar, Watts, Frawley, Garland (for a time), Morton (for the wrong reasons), Jetta and the list goes on.  I get very few right.

Christ, even Scull Scull seems to have it together and it's taken him a very long time.  I reckon lots of players surprise over the journey.

I posted before he was even tried down back that I thought Jetta would be good there.

I nicknamed Jamar Donuts and nothing really changed.  Yeah, he had a couple of good years and his tap-work with Moloney was great for a while, but he never became much more than a battler (cue the AA references).

Frawley improved from the days when he was outmuscled by the likes of North's Corey Jones, who used to towel us up, but we always thought he'd develop didn't we ?  Was he written off by many as a 19 or 20 year old ?  Oscar is way off the pace at the moment, but I don't see many saying he won't develop into a good player. 

I agree about Morton, but I doubt it took people more than a couple of seasons to start realising his limitations.

You're right to insinuate that you need a body of work before casting firm judgments, but do many players really leave you scratching your head ?  No doubt there will be surprises, but not many "Wow, I never thought this guy would become a gun".  I haven't had many of those.

[Red and Bluebeard 2,031]

1 hour ago, Django said:

I agree that Watts would be at his best spending no time in the ruck. But at the moment he is definitely preferable to Dawes. When Pedersen is back (which I hope is sooner rather than later), he can resume the PT ruck duties and Watts can spend more time up forward, or coming off the wing.

Yeah, fair point. It it probably best for the team at the moment for Watts to be in the ruck. 

[Red and Bluebeard 2,031]

26 minutes ago, DaisyDeeciple said:

I actually thought the rucking had improved his confidence, he seems to enjoy body language wise. But i'm curious to see your POV can you think of any particular game/moment/period because i'd go back and watch. I think our centre and clearance setup has been brilliant this year because we generally get to play the game on our terms, even when we lose it is because of development/skills, not because we're being reactive. So anyway keen to understand better what works

I haven't gone back and reviewed the game, but I think around the 10 minute mark of the 2nd quarter I noticed Watts heading for the bench, and Gawn coming off when he came back on about 5 minutes later. Watts didn't do a lot early (had a few mates there) and came into the game more as it went on, but I wonder whether being in the ruck and resting before that made it harder for him to get involved. I don't recall him being involved much in the 2nd quarter, which was easily our best of the game (and one of our best quarters so far this year). 

[Vogon Poetry 2,095]

12 minutes ago, ProDee said:

but not many "Wow, I never thought this guy would become a gun".  I haven't had many of those.

Fair enough.  I'm just not that good at it.  Too many misjudgements in the past to have much confidence in my judgement.

Lets hope I get one right.  First time I saw Clarry I thought he'd be a gun.  Has to learn to get it on the outside.  Plenty of time.

[Gator 16,892]

4 hours ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Fair enough.  I'm just not that good at it.  Too many misjudgements in the past to have much confidence in my judgement.

Lets hope I get one right.  First time I saw Clarry I thought he'd be a gun.  Has to learn to get it on the outside.  Plenty of time.

You always say that, but it's not true.  You have as much eye for talent as most of us (although you held on to Daniel Bell and a few others for too long).

Then again, when some of us said Grimes, McKenzie, Garland etc won't be best 22 in 2016 you did like to argue the point.  

I agree re Oliver and think he's become chronically underrated in the media and general public.  I have to go back to Gerard Healy to have seen an 18 year old as good.  Oliver is now 12th favourite for the RS and $51.  Parish is third at $7.  It's beyond a joke.  Oliver's inside work clearly goes under the radar. 

 

Edited June 16, 2016 by ProDee

[Akum 2,660]

How many ex-wingmen have also played ruck?

And does this mean that JW has now played every position on the field?

[monoccular 16,064]

3 hours ago, Red and Bluebeard said:

One thing I noticed on the weekend was that as Gawn tends to rest at about the 15-minute mark of the quarter, Watts tends to rest at about the 10-minute mark. Given that Watts seems to be a player who needs an early success or two to gain confidence, I wonder whether the rucking aspect is holding him back a little. It does get him around the ball more often, but not in a way that seems to play to his strengths. If Dawes or Pederson were to be the back-up ruck, I suspect that would improve Watt's form.

But probably won't happen - Dawes seems to be far more in favour with Roos than is Pedersen.

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,636]

8 hours ago, stuie said:

Petty banter is only ever returned, not initiated.

 

That is just such an obvious lie I am surprised that the moderators haven't deleted it.

[Dee1987 277]

Watts on Footy a Show stated he wants to be at MFC next year and beyond and expects manager to sort it out soon fingers crossed

[Clayton van Oliver 1,665]

So...

Thought maybe this had been said so started reading last few pages and figured after the first that I could probably take my chances.

I'm loving Watts' trick of finding position to mark or gather the bouncing ball, and seeming to get his opponent into a spot where Jack can just put his head down and run around the player. He's doing it a lot and I think his acceleration and then quality of delivery is a real asset of his game. I didn't know he was that quick until this year.

I also reckon he's doing a job in the ruck, and agree with whoever mentioned how his agility and skills also basically make him another midfielder

[Red and Bluebeard 2,031]

1 hour ago, monoccular said:

But probably won't happen - Dawes seems to be far more in favour with Roos than is Pedersen.

True. I think Pederson is better ruck, though (not that there is much in it )

[Demons11 6,404]

8 minutes ago, Red and Bluebeard said:

True. I think Pederson is better ruck, though (not that there is much in it )

Dawes is a better player, they are not playing for their rucking skills 

[Binmans PA 26,051]

Obviously, it's not just the coaching, but isn't it fantastic to have a professional/competent coaching team that can get the best out of their players? Watts, along with Jetta, Viney, Tyson and a number of the young kids like Wagner, Hunt and even Gawn have come a long way under this FD. It's exciting to think what these guys could look like in another 1-2 years time, providing the coaching remains strong.

[Akum 2,660]

52 minutes ago, AdamFarr said:

Obviously, it's not just the coaching, but isn't it fantastic to have a professional/competent coaching team that can get the best out of their players? Watts, along with Jetta, Viney, Tyson and a number of the young kids like Wagner, Hunt and even Gawn have come a long way under this FD. It's exciting to think what these guys could look like in another 1-2 years time, providing the coaching remains strong.

Also we've got a lot more out of some of the players we've traded in. Most obvious is Vince, but there's also BenKen & Garlett (until his recent stumble). Could prob add Pedo and Frost to that (though it's early days for Frost). 

[Binmans PA 26,051]

10 minutes ago, Akum said:

Also we've got a lot more out of some of the players we've traded in. Most obvious is Vince, but there's also BenKen & Garlett (until his recent stumble). Could prob add Pedo and Frost to that (though it's early days for Frost). 

Agreed. It has to be Roos. Wherever he goes he manages to do this with different FD's around him. I'm hoping we can maintain this after he's moved on.

[The Backyard Charizard 1,178]

2 hours ago, AmDamDemon said:

So...

Thought maybe this had been said so started reading last few pages and figured after the first that I could probably take my chances.

I'm loving Watts' trick of finding position to mark or gather the bouncing ball, and seeming to get his opponent into a spot where Jack can just put his head down and run around the player. He's doing it a lot and I think his acceleration and then quality of delivery is a real asset of his game. I didn't know he was that quick until this year.

I also reckon he's doing a job in the ruck, and agree with whoever mentioned how his agility and skills also basically make him another midfielder

It's a joy to watch when he is up and about and gets it right...

His draft camp results gave an indication of the potential.

20-Meter Sprint (seconds)

1. Ashley Smith – 2.80
2. Jack Watts – 2.82
3. Stephen Hill – 2.83
4. Nicholas Naitanui – 2.86
5. Tom Swift – 2.89
6. Ryan Shoenmakers – 2.90
7. Nick Heyne – 2.91
=7. Sam Blease – 2.91
9. Luke Shuey – 2.92
=9. Taylor Hunt – 2.92
=9. Matthew DeBoer – 2.92

 

Agility (seconds)

1. Stephen Hill – 7.77 (new camp record)
2. Jack Watts – 8.03
3. James Strauss – 8.18
4. Nick Suban – 8.25
5. Ayce Cordy – 8.27
6. Shaun McKernan – 8.31
7. Neville Jetta – 8.32
=7. Dan Hannebery – 8.32
9. Luke Shuey – 8.34
10. Liam Jones – 8.35

 

[Bobby McKenzie 2,169]

1 hour ago, KrazyJay said:

It's a joy to watch when he is up and about and gets it right...

His draft camp results gave an indication of the potential.

20-Meter Sprint (seconds)

1. Ashley Smith – 2.80
2. Jack Watts – 2.82
3. Stephen Hill – 2.83
4. Nicholas Naitanui – 2.86
5. Tom Swift – 2.89
6. Ryan Shoenmakers – 2.90
7. Nick Heyne – 2.91
=7. Sam Blease – 2.91
9. Luke Shuey – 2.92
=9. Taylor Hunt – 2.92
=9. Matthew DeBoer – 2.92

 

Agility (seconds)

1. Stephen Hill – 7.77 (new camp record)
2. Jack Watts – 8.03
3. James Strauss – 8.18
4. Nick Suban – 8.25
5. Ayce Cordy – 8.27
6. Shaun McKernan – 8.31
7. Neville Jetta – 8.32
=7. Dan Hannebery – 8.32
9. Luke Shuey – 8.34
10. Liam Jones – 8.35

 

Gee, Jack faster than Sam Blease. I wonder what time Jayden Hunt achieved in his 20 metre sprint.Does anyone know?

[Radar Detector 1,339]

Sometimes I really don't understand the feuding on this site. FWIW I have been firmly in the "don't delist" camp and would summarise JW this year as follows:

1. He is certainly surpassing the "minimum standard" required to play at AFL level (but I don't think that's what ProDee was arguing)

2. He is making a valuable contribution and averaging 2 goals a game is by far his best effort to date

3. He appears capable of better. He still has quiet periods in games and lapses in intensity

4. His natural talent levels mean he should have a higher ceiling and be held to a higher standard than many other players. This is not harsh, it is an acknowledgement that he has many tools that others don't and should be expected to use them

All that considered, this year has been good and we should certainly enjoy what he is producing. However I don't think it is in any way unreasonable to assume that this should be a building block to becoming an even better player, rather than an anomaly year before he regresses or plateaus. He is capable of more. I would suggest that holding this season out as a minimum standard is completely appropriate and don't really understand why anyone would think otherwise.

[Akum 2,660]

11 minutes ago, Radar Detector said:

Sometimes I really don't understand the feuding on this site. FWIW I have been firmly in the "don't delist" camp and would summarise JW this year as follows:

1. He is certainly surpassing the "minimum standard" required to play at AFL level (but I don't think that's what ProDee was arguing)

2. He is making a valuable contribution and averaging 2 goals a game is by far his best effort to date

3. He appears capable of better. He still has quiet periods in games and lapses in intensity

4. His natural talent levels mean he should have a higher ceiling and be held to a higher standard than many other players. This is not harsh, it is an acknowledgement that he has many tools that others don't and should be expected to use them

All that considered, this year has been good and we should certainly enjoy what he is producing. However I don't think it is in any way unreasonable to assume that this should be a building block to becoming an even better player, rather than an anomaly year before he regresses or plateaus. He is capable of more. I would suggest that holding this season out as a minimum standard is completely appropriate and don't really understand why anyone would think otherwise.

Best post in the thread so far.

[DeeZee 6,732]

Watts form This year hasn't surprised me.

Always knew he had it in him once he got some bulk in his body and the right coaching. Always had elite skills.

I think time with McCartney has helped Jack a lot,especially with his contested work.

2016 Jack Watts is an integral part of the team.

 

[Undeeterred 2,864]

16 hours ago, stuie said:

Noooooo but that never happens on Demonland, and for poor old ProDee to be a victim of such a thing when he always quotes exactly what was said is a travesty...

 

Have you ever once engaged your 'maybe I don't need to respond to this' filter?

Obviously not. You should.

[binman 38,019]

8 hours ago, Radar Detector said:

Sometimes I really don't understand the feuding on this site. FWIW I have been firmly in the "don't delist" camp and would summarise JW this year as follows:

1. He is certainly surpassing the "minimum standard" required to play at AFL level (but I don't think that's what ProDee was arguing)

2. He is making a valuable contribution and averaging 2 goals a game is by far his best effort to date

3. He appears capable of better. He still has quiet periods in games and lapses in intensity

4. His natural talent levels mean he should have a higher ceiling and be held to a higher standard than many other players. This is not harsh, it is an acknowledgement that he has many tools that others don't and should be expected to use them

All that considered, this year has been good and we should certainly enjoy what he is producing. However I don't think it is in any way unreasonable to assume that this should be a building block to becoming an even better player, rather than an anomaly year before he regresses or plateaus. He is capable of more. I would suggest that holding this season out as a minimum standard is completely appropriate and don't really understand why anyone would think otherwise.

Good post Radar.

I'd add one point - one I've made before. I don't think Watts gets enough credit for how infrequently he misses games due to injuries - this year but also throughout his career. This suggests that although looks pretty laid back and casual (and has had a bit of a reputation as party boy) he is also very professional in his approach to training and managing the impact of playing AFL football. 

This consistency of getting on the park  has been a big factor in the synergy Watts has developed with Hogan and for that matter the players delivering the ball to him.

 

[Ricky P 757]

I have a sneaking suspicion he'll be a finals specialist. Will have a knack of nailing set shots at crucial times. 

[Wells 11 4,704]

40 minutes ago, Ricky P said:

I have a sneaking suspicion he'll be a finals specialist. Will have a knack of nailing set shots at crucial times. 

Lets hope we see that suspicion put to the test.