Post Match Discussion - Round 15

[dpositive 1,698]

there is a certain inevitabiity in supporting Melbourne. Moments of bliss when a new player is drafted or arrives , the pre season where hopes are built while we train the house down. The mandatory loss of the first game as we confront a team that actually plays to win. The remorseless procession of games that are lost due to just a few critical errors.The shock win over a much higher rated team when everything seems to fall into place. And always ALWAYS the humiliating defeats when progress had seemed to been made.

Essendon was humiliating. They had a team who were spooked by drug events, and were mauled from the previous weeks loss, Crikey they even had a handful of young inexperienced new players .

And yet again the Melbourne team that took the field could not overcome this rabble.

I do not ask for thuggery and love the nuance and skill of the contest but there has to be a mix of agression and desire.

Federer and Djokovic last night played until Federer gave his best at the end of the second set and he could not force Djokovic off his game for a sustained period after that. He did not resign but he could not win. This was the player who was invincible not that long ago. And Djokovic who currently seems invincible will soon meet the younger hungrier more aggressive competitor desirous of victory and he will be beaten.

Melbourne has never been Federer or Djokovic in tasting the ultimate success. we fly for a fleeting moment of glory only to plummet back to the reality of the bog, that we cannot win.

WE MUST ADDRESS THIS

We have now many very skilled players and we have a blend of talents that can match it with every opposition, but we are yet to apply these consistently./ If we dont we will snuff the life out of the talent and they will leave us for better results. We may never achieve anything beyond mediocrity and perhaps even disappear as the old become weary and the young seek greater stimulation.

Roos got the collective to perform against Geelong. How did that happen ?

The contributors to these threads make many salient comments from many perspectives.about the selection of draft picks, the tactics of the game but there are some continuing givens that the coaches do not seem to be adressing. How do we get the team conditioned to perform as they did at Geelong consistently?

I also have my theories developed watching other teams and other sports. Skill is not always an essential. Leyton Hewitt began with skill deficiency in every area of the game but determination, he kept putting in until the skills developed within his game and he could match and beat those around him. He became no one in the world a title they dont give away.

But you do need an awareness of your skill and ability and you do need to work within those boundaries, maximising the skill and developing the weaknesses, matching yourself always to the competition.

I will add to this diatribe later if I feel up to it unless the howls of protest tell me to desist

[old dee 23,872]

there is a certain inevitabiity in supporting Melbourne. Moments of bliss when a new player is drafted or arrives , the pre season where hopes are built while we train the house down. The mandatory loss of the first game as we confront a team that actually plays to win. The remorseless procession of games that are lost due to just a few critical errors.The shock win over a much higher rated team when everything seems to fall into place. And always ALWAYS the humiliating defeats when progress had seemed to been made.

Essendon was humiliating. They had a team who were spooked by drug events, and were mauled from the previous weeks loss, Crikey they even had a handful of young inexperienced new players .

And yet again the Melbourne team that took the field could not overcome this rabble.

I do not ask for thuggery and love the nuance and skill of the contest but there has to be a mix of agression and desire.

Federer and Djokovic last night played until Federer gave his best at the end of the second set and he could not force Djokovic off his game for a sustained period after that. He did not resign but he could not win. This was the player who was invincible not that long ago. And Djokovic who currently seems invincible will soon meet the younger hungrier more aggressive competitor desirous of victory and he will be beaten.

Melbourne has never been Federer or Djokovic in tasting the ultimate success. we fly for a fleeting moment of glory only to plummet back to the reality of the bog, that we cannot win.

WE MUST ADDRESS THIS

We have now many very skilled players and we have a blend of talents that can match it with every opposition, but we are yet to apply these consistently./ If we dont we will snuff the life out of the talent and they will leave us for better results. We may never achieve anything beyond mediocrity and perhaps even disappear as the old become weary and the young seek greater stimulation.

Roos got the collective to perform against Geelong. How did that happen ?

The contributors to these threads make many salient comments from many perspectives.about the selection of draft picks, the tactics of the game but there are some continuing givens that the coaches do not seem to be adressing. How do we get the team conditioned to perform as they did at Geelong consistently?

I also have my theories developed watching other teams and other sports. Skill is not always an essential. Leyton Hewitt began with skill deficiency in every area of the game but determination, he kept putting in until the skills developed within his game and he could match and beat those around him. He became no one in the world a title they dont give away.

But you do need an awareness of your skill and ability and you do need to work within those boundaries, maximising the skill and developing the weaknesses, matching yourself always to the competition.

I will add to this diatribe later if I feel up to it unless the howls of protest tell me to desist

Keep going

[Adam The God 30,421]

There is no plan...if the opposition run out different to the team lineup published in the paper on Friday morning we are stuffed....and don't tell me our spare man in defence works when the opposition throws one back...come on, man on man, beat your direct opponent and if everyone does that you win! It's not rocket science, is football!

I'm not telling you that. I agree.

[Adam The God 30,421]

The only real players with a bit of mongrel are Viney and Vanders. I have high hopes for Frost and Kent is this department as well.

Unfortunately I think there's different rules for Fyfe and Mitchell compared to players from less successful clubs.

Bit harsh on Jones and Brayshaw.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,970]

Bit harsh on Jones and Brayshaw.

Long day, I agree. They should have been mentioned as well.

Edited July 13, 2015 by Ethan Tremblay

[Fork 'em 6,991]

Not sure I've seen any mongrel from either.
Hard but fair yes.
Living on the edge mongrel ... No.

[jnrmac 20,189]

The thing that has really disturbed me is our field kicking. Kent is the only MFC player who can kick it low and hard into the forward line.

Why is this skill missing from our players? Up and under bombs all day really very poor and has been going on for years

Teach the idiots to kick and worry about other things later. i cannot believe the footy department haven't addressed this.

Maybe we need to play white. Has a bazooka left foot apparently

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I don't know why, but I am more devastated 48 hours later
This really is starting to wear thin huh?
Our record 2007-present
42-2-146 (23% win)
8.5 years of suffering
what have we all done in our past lives to deserve this?

[Fork 'em 6,991]

Seriously pizzed off here aswell C&B.
And no amount of coming back to this thread seems to change things.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

there is a certain inevitabiity in supporting Melbourne. Moments of bliss when a new player is drafted or arrives , the pre season where hopes are built while we train the house down. The mandatory loss of the first game as we confront a team that actually plays to win. The remorseless procession of games that are lost due to just a few critical errors.The shock win over a much higher rated team when everything seems to fall into place. And always ALWAYS the humiliating defeats when progress had seemed to been made.

Essendon was humiliating. They had a team who were spooked by drug events, and were mauled from the previous weeks loss, Crikey they even had a handful of young inexperienced new players .

And yet again the Melbourne team that took the field could not overcome this rabble.

I do not ask for thuggery and love the nuance and skill of the contest but there has to be a mix of agression and desire.

Federer and Djokovic last night played until Federer gave his best at the end of the second set and he could not force Djokovic off his game for a sustained period after that. He did not resign but he could not win. This was the player who was invincible not that long ago. And Djokovic who currently seems invincible will soon meet the younger hungrier more aggressive competitor desirous of victory and he will be beaten.

Melbourne has never been Federer or Djokovic in tasting the ultimate success. we fly for a fleeting moment of glory only to plummet back to the reality of the bog, that we cannot win.

WE MUST ADDRESS THIS

We have now many very skilled players and we have a blend of talents that can match it with every opposition, but we are yet to apply these consistently./ If we dont we will snuff the life out of the talent and they will leave us for better results. We may never achieve anything beyond mediocrity and perhaps even disappear as the old become weary and the young seek greater stimulation.

Roos got the collective to perform against Geelong. How did that happen ?

The contributors to these threads make many salient comments from many perspectives.about the selection of draft picks, the tactics of the game but there are some continuing givens that the coaches do not seem to be adressing. How do we get the team conditioned to perform as they did at Geelong consistently?

I also have my theories developed watching other teams and other sports. Skill is not always an essential. Leyton Hewitt began with skill deficiency in every area of the game but determination, he kept putting in until the skills developed within his game and he could match and beat those around him. He became no one in the world a title they dont give away.

But you do need an awareness of your skill and ability and you do need to work within those boundaries, maximising the skill and developing the weaknesses, matching yourself always to the competition.

I will add to this diatribe later if I feel up to it unless the howls of protest tell me to desist

Can he coach?

[Adam The God 30,421]

I don't know why, but I am more devastated 48 hours later

This really is starting to wear thin huh?

Our record 2007-present

42-2-146 (23% win)

8.5 years of suffering

what have we all done in our past lives to deserve this?

It feels more like 10% to me.

[DeeZee 7,445]

Believe or not in hindsight we may gone into this game a bit cocky and didn't turn up the intensity untill the last quarter when it was too late.

[Sir Why You Little 37,134]

Believe or not in hindsight we may gone into this game a bit cocky and didn't turn up the intensity untill the last quarter when it was too late.

Yes

But why???

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Believe or not in hindsight we may gone into this game a bit cocky and didn't turn up the intensity untill the last quarter when it was too late.

100% spot on

I was at the game and felt the bombers were more desperate all day until the final qtr

That's just my feeling from watching the game

Mind u if we kicked straight in the 2nd or at all we would have won

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Yes

But why???

That's the 1.7 mil question old Dee

It's easy to say a young team but a part of me feels they weren't hungry enough until it was too late

[old dee 23,872]

That's the 1.7 mil question old Dee

It's easy to say a young team but a part of me feels they weren't hungry enough until it was too late

I dont mind taking the wrap for my comments But that one belongs to SWYL Unleash hell.

[Sir Why You Little 37,134]

That's the 1.7 mil question old Dee

It's easy to say a young team but a part of me feels they weren't hungry enough until it was too late

agreed. But none of our list deserves to be complacent to any opponent whatsoever...

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

I dont mind taking the wrap for my comments But that one belongs to SWYL Unleash hell.

Haha oh dear.... I really need to work on my posting.... apologies for confusing you two (I think I was reading other comments at the time)

agreed. But none of our list deserves to be complacent to any opponent whatsoever...

I don't' know if its an experience thing or a coaching thing, but at the game it felt like the bombers 'turned up' earlier then us. Goddard and I'll have to rematch but Essendon dominated us in clearances, got first hands on the ball and pressured us in to constant mistakes early in the game.

We responded well but it felt like Essendon were on until the last qtr. I don't want to give us terrible excuses but I can't work out how to rationaisel how we're so inconsistent and not putting results on the board

Edited July 13, 2015 by Unleash Hell

[old dee 23,872]

Haha oh dear.... I really need to work on my posting

It has been a couple of long hard days Unleash Hell.

Edited July 13, 2015 by old dee

[DeeZee 7,445]

Why indeed, especially when we cannot afford to be complacent.

It's a lesson we still have to learn , we have to work harder to earn respect.

We absolutely have to go hell for leather untill the game is no longer in doubt.

[grazman 7,451]

I've not read any of the thread as I fear it involved a lot of emotion and some less than logical thinking. Understandable because I would have been the same shortly after the performance.

Agree with pretty much everything you've written BB, but just two observations (and again I put a 48 hour moratorium on visiting DL after the loss),

I wonder if there's any consideration to playing the Darwin match leading into the bye rather than the week after - certainly we seemed a little fresher this year compared to previous years, but I still think it would be the optimal time to play that game if we have to.

Secondly there was an air of inevitability about the result - not so much deja vu, as symptomatic of continuing problems of our culture/list. Essendon are truly shite at the minute and we played ourselves out of the game - mentally we just aren't switched on for long enough.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Geez i held back tears watching those Crows boys in the centre circle and then walking off the ground together. Unbelievably emotional. Well done to West Coast and their fans for the respect they showed those young men. They are going through hell, it is painful to see.

I wouldn't call it painful, for me to see anyway; but it is emotional to watch others feel so much sorrow. But its heart-warming at the same time, to witness that deal of love for they're mate.

to me, its great to see our young warriors show they're emotions after such a devastating loss of a mates life, Via anothers pained hand.

Proud of our game in moments like these, of utmost respect shown for a lost mate.

[Fork 'em 6,991]

Why indeed, especially when we cannot afford to be complacent.

It's a lesson we still have to learn , we have to work harder to earn respect.

We absolutely have to go hell for leather untill the game is no longer in doubt.

Till the forken siren sounds.

I've seen us take the foot off the pedal during games making tight contests at the end when they shouldn't have been.

And during Danihers era we'd take our foot off the pedal as soon as a spot in the finals was assured and we go from looking unstoppable mid season to go on a losing streak falling into the finals and bounced out early.

Disgraceful.

[Scoop Junior 3,513]

There have been plenty of excellent comments made on this thread, including those that have pointed at our failings and those that have highlighted our improvement.

The comments I don't agree with however are those criticising Roos. I think he has been fantastic for this footy club in helping to stabilise the decline, correct the culture, make the club more attractive and, in terms of on-field work, instil a much harder and competitive style of footy and improve effort levels dramatically. Yes there have been games and patches in games where our effort has been down, but from where we were at in 2013 it's a huge improvement.

Nevertheless, the two areas I think are really hurting us and were the reasons why I feared the Essendon game (and why we ultimately lost) are our mental fragility and overall lack of class.

On the first point, this is not something new with the MFC, and there have been plenty of comments in here about how for years we have lost the 'unloseable' games. What really frustrates me however is just the inability of our players to learn.

Now I know many of them weren't out there in previous years where we've lost such games, but many of them were there in the NAB Challenge where, in remarkably similar circumstances, we got done by Essendon's VFL team. Surely, after that, the players would have approached Saturday's game fully aware of the possibility of losing unless we were on top of our game. Yet despite this we came out just expecting it to happen, thinking we could work half as hard as we did against Geelong and get the points. What on earth is going through our players' heads that results in them coming out with that mindset? It is just mind-boggling that a team that has been as bad as ours for so long can think they can just rock up and get the win against another AFL team. I could understand the Hawks or Swans falling into this trap, but not us.

There was a period in the second term where we had Essendon on the ropes. A good side would have just finished them off then and there. However, we continually fail to take these opportunities to put sides away and then, slowly, they start to gain confidence and grow into the game and run over the top of us.

We will not get anywhere as a team until we can develop a mindset where we can approach a game versus a bottom side with the same intensity and desire as a game against a top team.

On the second point, I think a key reason why we keep dropping these games is our overall lack of class. We don't get reward for dominant periods of play the way the good sides do. We were all over Essendon in the second and fourth quarters but just struggled to convert that on the scoreboard. Obviously the poor inside 50s and the woeful kicking for goal affects that, but we just don't have enough class in our side to capitalise on our dominance. This is also the main reason why we fall short against the top teams. Under Roos we have become a side that can scrap it out and be really competitive on the inside, but we just get destroyed on the outside by the quicker, slicker opposition.

The same thing happened against Brisbane last year. We were on top in general play for three quarters but just could not put them away. Then they stormed home and beat us. Also in Round 1 last year against the Saints where we were the better side but just could not convert on that dominance and they beat us with one big surge in the third quarter. Until we can add that class to our mix (which thankfully some of our youngsters have) we will continue to struggle to put away lowly sides.

So forget about blaming Roos and coaching tactics. At the end of the day it shouldn't really come down to little things like tactics. A mentally stronger Melbourne side with some more class would have easily accounted for Essendon yesterday irrespective of things like a loose man in defence. This is what we need to focus on.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

One thing that has not been mentioned and discussed which I feel should be acknowledged is that the woeful accuracy on goal was not purely down to poor kicking. The major flaw in this 2015 team is the poor Fwd50 entries and the lack of cohesion in the forward line. These are the sides greatest weaknesses and this is why we end up with 7.18!

Good sides hit up leads 40m directly in front. Our forwards were either trying to nail shots from the pockets or in scrappy rushed play as ball went to ground.

When the midfielders can start to clean up fwd entries and when the fwds start to learn to lead in to space and clear space for others directly in front then we don't have to have blokes trying to ping goals from the fence or rely on someone to kick one around a corner in the middle of 15 other blokes.

That was the real story behind 7.18.