Ruckman

[Binmans PA 26,732]

Gawn is the only ruckman on our list who knows how to tap out to advantage

For this reason alone, he's ahead of Jamar and Spencer

Having said that, he has a LONG way to go

Agreed. He taps to advantage, he just can't run out games. Still. Hasn't appeared to improve his tank at all.

[rjay 24,193]

Gawn needs to keep the number 1 spot for the rest of the season at AFL or VFL level if his form drops off. As I've been saying for a while now he is a ruck/forward not a forward/ruck. Lets see what he can do.

He also needs to build his fitness base or he is of no use to us really. It was no coincidence that Grundy played his best footy in the last Q and our game stalled.

I would still be leaning towards bringing in a number 1 ruck though.

[Binmans PA 26,732]

Watch Gawn have a poor game next week and have this poll flipped on its head.

Reminds me of when Matt Jones and Dean Terlich were great pick ups, even better than Dan Nicholson who was a weapon off half back.

One game does not a player make.

Jamar has played 150 games and has made AA and people are saying 'he can't ruck' - Good Lord.

Jamar's played one good season, mate. He showed nothing for so long, even after we retired White. He's a dinosaur. As soon as the ruck contest is over (which he only occasionally wins), he gets killed around the ground. He's slow, horrible below his knees and to put it bluntly, one dimensional. He's finished. If he's smart, he'll retire at year's end. Spencer and Gawn are ahead of him.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

Gawn has the best size, best agility and is the best ball winner out of the 3. Can fill holes very well but needs to get those marks to stick. Disposal could use improvement but he can find the ball like a midfielder at times. Out of Gawn and Spencer, Gawn's definitely the talented one, but Spencer still has the desire to be in the mix

As for Jamar, while not showing a huge drop in form, getting dropped probably shows we don't have much to gain by playing him anymore. Massive credit to him for battling through all these seasons of turmoil

[Dees2014 2,377]

Gawn absolutely has the skill set to be a top ruckman

- can mark

- can tap

- not too bad below his knees

- in the main makes good decisions

The main issue to date is he has shown in fits and bursts and he still doesn't look like he has a tank.

Shout me down but the general rule is that ruckman don't come into their own until 23ish and Gawn is just hitting that age now where he should be stepping up ( yes - the are exceptions to this)

Quite agree Nutbean. We haven't had a bad record in bringing in and developing Ruckmen. The problem is we lose patience with them and trade them just as they become stars (eg Jolly, Martin). Don't let this happen to big Max. Max showed what he is capable of on Queen's Birthday. He IMHO will be as critical to our rise as Sandilands has been to freo. Let's not stuff it up.

By the way, there are good reasons why Max lacks a tank. He has been at the MFC I think 6 seasons, and he has at the most one full preseason. He is now acquiring not only the tank, but also the skills to become a top ruckman. To me, it is Max by a mile.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Dees2014

[Little Richard 5,943]

Gawn has the best size, best agility and is the best ball winner out of the 3. Can fill holes very well but needs to get those marks to stick. Disposal could use improvement but he can find the ball like a midfielder at times. Out of Gawn and Spencer, Gawn's definitely the talented one, but Spencer still has the desire to be in the mix

As for Jamar, while not showing a huge drop in form, getting dropped probably shows we don't have much to gain by playing him anymore. Massive credit to him for battling through all these seasons of turmoil

If only we could combine Gawn and Spencer, we'd have one hell of a ruckman.

Gawn competed well in the air yesterday and clunked a couple of marks, but does need to hold onto them more regularly.

[MadAsHell 4,089]

Well according to the stats for their careers so far, and keeping in mind that Gawn is the youngest:

Gawn averages:

More Kicks

More Handballs

More Disposals

More Marks

More Behinds

Less Free Kicks against then both Jamar & Spencer per game

Is equal with Jamar for goals per game also/

Jamar & Spencer are equal for hotouts per game.

Spencer averages more tackles per game

Gives away more free kicks and that's it.

So personally I'd be going with Gawn. Play Jamar in Darwin as you need someone who you know will run out the game there and a farewell game in Round 23, but for the other 10 games it's time to get miles into Gawn for me.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Max Gawn has more ability and is more capable than Spencer and he always will be. Spencer is simply on our list for insurance because there is no hope in hell he'll be able to improve in almost every facet of the game. He is just another competitive player with no skill or general understanding of where to position himself anywhere on the ground let alone a ruck contest.

Jamar is now shot.

I'd be handing on to Gawn with the hope that he will one day be our number one ruckman with an ability to spend time forward.

But yes, we will be identifying a ruckman to pick up at the end of the year. Hopefully one who can challenge for the number one position.

[Moonshadow 16,619]

No love for Pedo?

[Little Richard 5,943]

No love for Pedo?

Not a number one ruck.

[Moonshadow 16,619]

Not a number one ruck.

Hmmm..... because we're so brimming with ruck talent atm? None of them are any chop Django.

Then can we at least have a spot on the poll for 'none of the above'?

[Nasher 33,246]

Agree that it's got to be Gawn, but you definitely wouldn't be putting all your eggs in the one basket as there is still a very big question mark over his durability.

I wouldn't go too far out of my way to lure an experienced ruckman in as I just don't think the position is that important and would prefer we focused our efforts elsewhere. If King is not retained or viewed as a viable long term option, we will definitely have to pick up one in the draft.

Spencer has to stay on the list until we have a viable alternative; that buys him another contract after this one IMO.

[CBDees 3,162]

Surprised that only HH has mentioned his 208cm. He is the second tallest player in the league after Sandilands (and 2cm taller than Robbie Warnock) and ten years Sandilands junior. We would be crazy to even consider delisting a player who one day will end up as the tallest player in the league. He simply has too much upside. Let's not repeat the mistake we made when we delisted Steph Martin ahead of Jamar.

[Lucifers Hero 37,524]

Quite agree Nutbean. We haven't had a bad record in bringing in and developing Ruckmen. The problem is we lose patience with them and trade them just as they become stars (eg Jolly, Martin). Don't let this happen to big Max. Max showed what he is capable of on Queen's Birthday. He IMHO will be as critical to our rise as Sandilands has been to freo. Let's not stuff it up.

By the way, there are good reasons why Max lacks a tank. He has been at the MFC I think 6 seasons, and he has at the most one full preseason. He is now acquiring not only the tank, but also the skills to become a top ruckman. To me, it is Max by a mile.

Jolly asked to be traded because he couldn't get a game with White in the team

Martin was traded for non-football reasons.

Max lacks a tank, in part because he smokes (or has recently given up).

If Max's about to expire contract isn't renewed soon it would suggest he doesn't feature highly in clubs plans.

The next month or two will tell.

Edited June 10, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[Little Richard 5,943]

Hmmm..... because we're so brimming with ruck talent atm? None of them are any chop Django.

Then can we at least have a spot on the poll for 'none of the above'?

True. I actually think Pedo is quite good as a back up ruck, but I do prefer him up forward for as much time as possible.

I think this just really shows how desperately we need to trade in another one, if not two ruckmen at the end of the year.

[Mad_Melbourne 872]

In terms of who is our best AFL ruckman at current it is Jamar.

In terms of who is it most important we get games into this year it's Gawn/Spencer

Gawn getting 50 + games under his belt is pivotal and he desperately needs to increase his match fitness and match sense. The fitzy tunnelball goal resulted directly from him attempting to mark it on the goal line, should have spoilt it over. He will learn.

[rjay 24,193]

In terms of who is our best AFL ruckman at current it is Jamar.

In terms of who is it most important we get games into this year it's Gawn/Spencer

Gawn getting 50 + games under his belt is pivotal and he desperately needs to increase his match fitness and match sense. The fitzy tunnelball goal resulted directly from him attempting to mark it on the goal line, should have spoilt it over. He will learn.

Gary Dempsey was a bad role model...

[Its Time for Another 4,058]

Surprised that only HH has mentioned his 208cm. He is the second tallest player in the league after Sandilands (and 2cm taller than Robbie Warnock) and ten years Sandilands junior. We would be crazy to even consider delisting a player who one day will end up as the tallest player in the league. He simply has too much upside. Let's not repeat the mistake we made when we delisted Steph Martin ahead of Jamar.

Exactly. He is starting to be able to use his body work against opposition rucks so he can time his jumps to hit the ball at his apex. At 208cm's no one's going to beat that except for Sandilands. It was clear to see this happening against Grundy and the quality of his taps to running players meant we won the clearances for the first time in how long. The result of that was we were very close in inside 50's and if it wasn't for turnovers this would have won us the game.

Gawny's a freak. Not only one of the 3 or 4 tallest players to ever play but incredible agility for his size. Has already had 18+ possession games playing in the ruck and a genuine forward target. The others can't compare to this. Not many can.

As others have said, durability is a big question mark and this seems to have effected his tank up to now. Hopefully both will be resolved well in the rest of the season.

[angrydee 842]

Although I think Gawn is the best option going forward, it is concerning that at 208 cm he only took one mark on Monday.

[Binmans PA 26,732]

Quite agree Nutbean. We haven't had a bad record in bringing in and developing Ruckmen. The problem is we lose patience with them and trade them just as they become stars (eg Jolly, Martin). Don't let this happen to big Max. Max showed what he is capable of on Queen's Birthday. He IMHO will be as critical to our rise as Sandilands has been to freo. Let's not stuff it up.

By the way, there are good reasons why Max lacks a tank. He has been at the MFC I think 6 seasons, and he has at the most one full preseason. He is now acquiring not only the tank, but also the skills to become a top ruckman. To me, it is Max by a mile.

I wonder if it's more the smoking that is holding him back, rather than a lack of one pre season?

[Duh 109]

_{Gawn is thoroughly underrated and his tap work is quite good and will continue to improve if we keep giving him an opportunity. His height (208cm) is obviously a great asset, and he will need to improve his finishing in terms of marking/goal kicking to become the player he could be. Quite often he gets himself into position to mark the ball only to drop it, which is similar in terms of his goal kicking where he can often miss easy set shots.}

_{Definitely worth persevering with as he is the most promising out of spencer and Jamar.}

[Binmans PA 26,732]

Surprised that only HH has mentioned his 208cm. He is the second tallest player in the league after Sandilands (and 2cm taller than Robbie Warnock) and ten years Sandilands junior. We would be crazy to even consider delisting a player who one day will end up as the tallest player in the league. He simply has too much upside. Let's not repeat the mistake we made when we delisted Steph Martin ahead of Jamar.

He rarely plays to that stature though.

[Yossarian 1,808]

Stoked that Maxy had a decent game on the weekend and that we gave him a crack as number one ruckman in the first place. I'd consider both him and Spencer to have more upside than Jamar these days. Have been frustrated with Jamar's tapwork for years. At best, he nullifies the other team's ruckman, but if the hitouts end up even at the end of the match, only one side will have had half their hitouts to advantage.

Jamar's ruckwork for Casey on the weekend highlighted how frustrating it is to watch him play. He was murdering the guy in the ruck, but he was still doing those dinky little taps to no one at all.

[Demon Disciple 11,212]

I'm going to get technical here. The question was "who is my first-choice ruckman", not "who do i believe is our best ruckman".

The latter still goes to Jamar, why?, because he has runs on the board. Spencer and Gawn don't.

However given the actual question, Jamar is on his last legs, Spencer will always be a stop-gap and nothing more and Gawn needs to get as many games into him to speed up his development (hopefully with as few injury hiccups as possible).

[wizardinoz 2,166]

Can someone post the height comparison between all 3 ruckmen? Thanks.