Paul Roos - don't give us more excuses!

[nutbean 8,837]

Too many soft cox/NQRs in this list RP who "choose" when its their turn to go or just arent up to AFL standard.

Roos is paying the price of backing them for too long. Needs to smack this lot around and toughen up on the lot of em and move on from NQR soft cox to start. Then build decent depth through the mid field ASAP to support Jones, Vince, Viney, Tyson, Brayshaw and Vanders. He will need to bring in other NQRs to replace the soft cox but the morale in the team will be better for it. Similar skills/talent or lack thereof but guys having a dip can inspire. Soft Cox do the reverse and their pathetic non efforts are there for all to see and can spread through the group like wildfire if left in the team. This leads to the lack of trust u were referring to. Then everyone starts to go into self preservation mode.

There's only one person to blame for playing soft cox for too long so far this year and that's PR himself.

All other teams kno we run shallow thru the mid with Jones the only player in the top 100 AFL ranked players. Put a hard lock down on Jones... game over.

When we finally get rid of the NQRs/Soft cox and import 2 to 3 B grade mid fielders... we will start winning more than 1 game in a row against clubs from 8ish down.

Until then sit back and enjoy being regularly massacred.

P.S. We will still get beaten by most teams outside the bottom 6 in most cases even if he drops the NQRs & soft cox THIS SEASON...just not massacred (excluding the top 4 or so).

Need to be careful how this is managed - or you just end up being Mark Neeld.

[beelzebub 22,271]

And about 1/3 to 1/2 are not good enough or have no influence in games.

The cull to continue until we get it right.

[Sir Why You Little 34,745]

Did Roos mention the Leadership group?

No. I did

[P-man 13,275]

I do accept that some players are spooked by the past.

But it is not shifting responsibility because not all players are afflicted by this curse. It is squarely placing the responsibility on players that are afflicted - that they are not quite good enough - especially in the mental toughness area

If you constantly beat a dog most will cringe every time you walk past the dog whether you beat it or not. But not all.

So the mental psyche of players can absolutely be scarred from years of being belted but it hasn't done that to Nathan Jones.

We have both reached the same conclusion. If you are not good enough because you don't have the talent or if you are not good enough because you are not mentally strong enough to stay the course when things turn sour - bottom line is - you're not good enough.

We're somewhat debating around the edges but it is shifting blame imo, because it is under previous coaches and administrations that the club was run into its darkest period, which led to the poor recruiting, and development, and gameplans, and ultimately the poor performances, which apparently has left certain players scarred for life Korean war vet style.

Anytime we get run over, it's an easy out to say "some of them can't get over the past". Really? TWO YEARS later they can't get over the past? I just don't buy it, personally, which leads me to believe it's a public front and nothing more.

We do agree that many simply aren't good enough, but I think we knew it would require at least two bites of the cherry to get the list a lot closer to what Roos desires.

[Sir Why You Little 34,745]

We're somewhat debating around the edges but it is shifting blame imo, because it is under previous coaches and administrations that the club was run into its darkest period, which led to the poor recruiting, and development, and gameplans, and ultimately the poor performances, which apparently has left certain players scarred for life Korean war vet style.

Anytime we get run over, it's an easy out to say "some of them can't get over the past". Really? TWO YEARS later they can't get over the past? I just don't buy it, personally, which leads me to believe it's a public front and nothing more.

We do agree that many simply aren't good enough, but I think we knew it would require at least two bites of the cherry to get the list a lot closer to what Roos desires.

P Man

The ones who cannot get over the past are the ones who have to go. They fail time and time again.

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,956]

Yes if we'd have 15 we'd be lucky

Ive been doing night shift the past couple of weeks, lack of sleep....15 may of been a bit generous.

[Coq au vin 754]

We're somewhat debating around the edges but it is shifting blame imo, because it is under previous coaches and administrations that the club was run into its darkest period, which led to the poor recruiting, and development, and gameplans, and ultimately the poor performances, which apparently has left certain players scarred for life Korean war vet style.

Anytime we get run over, it's an easy out to say "some of them can't get over the past". Really? TWO YEARS later they can't get over the past? I just don't buy it, personally, which leads me to believe it's a public front and nothing more.

We do agree that many simply aren't good enough, but I think we knew it would require at least two bites of the cherry to get the list a lot closer to what Roos desires.

Its just hard to fathom why they can play so well one week against the Doggies and have such bad halves against Port and Greatest Waste of Space.

[Demon Dynasty 15,843]

Need to be careful how this is managed - or you just end up being Mark Neeld.

True but PR has cred and has given them some respect/rope from day one until now (nearly 2 years).

MN had none and hung most of em out to dry from the moment he set foot in the door.

[dpositive 1,557]

Other threads point to form fluctuations, team makeup, team selection and other vague opinions of player capabilities.

Have we improved ??????

We have played 4 of top 5 and we have played some insipid and some stirring footy. WE have shown that we have some capacity.

This week we play a team that is like ourselves playing a mix of ages skills, potential and proven.

Their record has been sporadic but one thing we know when they run onto the ground they will give their all. they will leave the ground spent if they are in a contest.

It is the coaches job to select the right group of players who have the right skill set and will perform as a team to beat the opponent.

It is the coaches job to ensure they have the self belief to beat their opponents. It is the coaches job to alter structures and patterns in anticipation of and in response to the fluctuations of the game. It is the coaches job to ensure that players are instructed in what to do and made to do it.

This week is an important game for the club, its players and the coach.

I believe we can win, we have the players with skills who if they turn up and focus on the football, stay in touch with their direct opponent, support their teammates, and try their bloody guts out so that they are exhausted when they leave the field we will win

Go DEES

[Soidee 1,496]

I just don't buy this scarred for life with some on our list.....these unnamed culprits are just taking the easy cop out and need to grow up and take some accountability for their chosen profession. Their all quite happy to take the benefits of been on an AFL list but choose to play well when they choose.

No matter who they are....if they are not improving under Roos, then he should stop playing them.

[PaulRB 5,998]

I think Roos is elegantly adjusting to prime his team and players for those games he believes we are most likely to be able to win given where we are at.

Resting Hogan Vs Hawks so primed for Doggies.

Resting Tyson for Port so ready for Pies.

The session with Danners prior to Doggies

Etc...

The language he uses, and has Jones use, all aimed at raising the stakes before games in which a higher output might produce a win...

Edited June 3, 2015 by PaulRB

[jnrmac 19,241]

I'm not buying it. Blaming the past culture. We are long past that.

Players are told where to run, how to defend, where to kick to etc etc. Its not that hard.

Maybe they are not intellectually capable of doing it but the scarred minds scenario doesn't wash with me.

[jnrmac 19,241]

No. I did

I saw that I was just wanting to know whether he singled out the leadership group. It would be his style to do that I think but clearly we don't have enough of players who stand up when things are going pear shaped.

[Demon Dynasty 15,843]

I presume you've got a rowing background, Rusty?

no but i suspect will probably be using a megaphone from here on!

Edited June 3, 2015 by Rusty Nails

[No10 323]

I'm not buying it. Blaming the past culture. We are long past that.

Players are told where to run, how to defend, where to kick to etc etc. Its not that hard.

Maybe they are not intellectually capable of doing it but the scarred minds scenario doesn't wash with me.

With respect to someone 6000 odd posts ahead of me, culture is exactly the failure I see on field when momentum is lost.

Jones tries to lead by example but can't do it alone so disappears, I have no idea what Dunn is doing. Surely leadership is confidence and belief, then instilling that into the players around you. When challenged, these guys crumble as leaders and play for themselves. That's what Roos says and exactly what I see.

Jones will eyeball the young players like Brawshaw and Kent, but seems to lack confidence to do that with the others.

[Demonsone 1,639]

We have to accept the bulk of our list is not up to playing @ the intensity required against too afl teams....Whilst Roos is accountable you can't polish a turd....I think most agree the majority of players he had brought in have worked, I dare say more changes will be made by yrs end!

[Coq au vin 754]

What does "rope a dope" actually mean?

[Coq au vin 754]

IMO Roosy needs to stop giving the players an excuse. He has repeatedly told us that we can't compete with the top teams because we don't have the talent.

Going into the games against Freo, Hawks, Sydney it was almost like the players didn't expect to win so they didn't have much of a crack. Likewise against Port, it was like the players dropped their heads after half time because Port were a top 4 team last year so it was ok to loose to them.

Every team should be considered gettable. 18 blokes v 18 blokes. It may not be realistic but it should be the ingrained in the players thinking. I don't see that at Melbourne at the moment.

i think most of them did have a crack and they bent over and took it up that crack.

[jnrmac 19,241]

With respect to someone 6000 odd posts ahead of me, culture is exactly the failure I see on field when momentum is lost.

Jones tries to lead by example but can't do it alone so disappears, I have no idea what Dunn is doing. Surely leadership is confidence and belief, then instilling that into the players around you. When challenged, these guys crumble as leaders and play for themselves. That's what Roos says and exactly what I see.

Jones will eyeball the young players like Brawshaw and Kent, but seems to lack confidence to do that with the others.

I get what you are saying but I cant let them wheel it out as an excuse. If there are guys there like that they have to be weeded out. If it's Howe then drop him and say why he is being dropped.

Its interesting to me that no-one is calling for the Russian to come back in - our AA ruckman. clearly isn't leading on the ground and wont get back in until he does hopefully. Watts needs to go with Howe. Bail and MJones can go as well. Get players who are going to run through brick walls.

[bing181 8,208]

Anytime we get run over, it's an easy out to say "some of them can't get over the past". Really? TWO YEARS later they can't get over the past? I just don't buy it, personally, which leads me to believe it's a public front and nothing more.

I don't know that that's what's being said.

Roos' comments reflect on a group who've never been part of a winning culture, and who haven't been immersed - on field AND off - in a winning culture. Or much of a culture at all for that matter. As such, there are still some that, it seems, don't quite trust their team mates, don't quite trust their coaches, and don't quite trust the game plan. They may do so intellectually and when it's all working, but in the heat of the moment, when the pressure is applied, it all goes out the window and they end up playing for/by themselves ... because to some extent, it's all they've ever known.

Leaps of faith, the "just do this, trust me, it'll work". Always tricky.

[PaulRB 5,998]

What does "rope a dope" actually mean?

Ali did it Vs Foreman - https://youtu.be/IX60mIDi7sI

[demoniac 1,243]

Go back and take a look at the list he inherited.

Was the OP expecting miracles?

[No10 323]

I get what you are saying but I cant let them wheel it out as an excuse. If there are guys there like that they have to be weeded out. If it's Howe then drop him and say why he is being dropped.

Its interesting to me that no-one is calling for the Russian to come back in - our AA ruckman. clearly isn't leading on the ground and wont get back in until he does hopefully. Watts needs to go with Howe. Bail and MJones can go as well. Get players who are going to run through brick walls.

Seems player weeding is exactly their process, but you got to play them to know what they're capable of.

At least Garland is proving himself again, Grimes too. At seasons end we know who to keep or trade value.

Howe must perform better, no use dropping him to the VFL, he needs to be found out at the level.

Watts, even on the outside he doesn't really want the ball, how do you coach that? Roos has tried just about everything.

Anyway, I'd also prefer some fight and less excuses, to see Riley in the team over M Jones. Plus I believe Riley might be better than some give credit.

[demoniac 1,243]

Seems player weeding is exactly their process, but you got to play them to know what they're capable of.

At least Garland is proving himself again, Grimes too. At seasons end we know who to keep or trade value.

Howe must perform better, no use dropping him to the VFL, he needs to be found out at the level.

Watts, even on the outside he doesn't really want the ball, how do you coach that? Roos has tried just about everything.

Anyway, I'd also prefer some fight and less excuses, to see Riley in the team over M Jones. Plus I believe Riley might be better than some give credit.

M Jones is in the team because of his running capacity much like Bail.

I like Riley as a contested ball winner but we can't play him as an outside running player. He just does not have the endurance.

[No10 323]

M Jones is in the team because of his running capacity much like Bail.

I like Riley as a contested ball winner but we can't play him as an outside running player. He just does not have the endurance.

That suggests that we have the right team balance, so we can't swap a Bail/MJones for Riley.

However the problem against Port was that we allowed them to play a running game when we should have won the ball at the stoppages and slowed it down.

I think the real reason Bail and MJones are in the team is because they're 26/27 and on last chance - Riley is 23 (and selected by Roos) different program.