THE ESSENDON 34: ON TRIAL

[Dees2014 2,377]

Whatever verdict is handed down, one party or other will appeal all the way to the CAS.

Asada wont settle for less than 18 months and essendon wont settle for anything more than not guilty.

There wont be any sackings until after the CAS has done its work.

After the AFL Tribunal hands down their initial decision, either party (I.e. Essendon or ASADA) can lodge an appeal to the AFL Appeals Tribunal who will in turn either amend the original decision or confirm it. If WADA decides this second verdict is inadequate then they can take the appeal to CAS. Their record is when they do this they usually win, and have exercised this right often internationally,

Ultimately, it may well be taken out of the AFL's hands, and the poisonous and partisan australian sporting atmosphere, which can only be good for a fair result.

Edited February 28, 2015 by Dees2014

[biggestred 4,315]

After the AFL Tribunal hands down their initial decision, either party (I.e. Essendon or ASADA) can lodge an appeal to the AFL Appeals Tribunal who will in turn either amend the original decision or confirm it. If WADA decides this second verdict is inadequate then they can take the appeal to CAS. Their record is when they do this they usually win, and have exercised this right often internationally,

Ultimately, it may well be taken out of the AFL's hands, and the poisonous and partisan australian sporting atmosphere, which can only be good for a fair result.

haha yep

what im saying is that either party will appeal depending on the result - and keep appealing until it is at CAS.

[Melbman2 226]

Incidentally, I've read on Bomberblitz a few times that this is EFC's 'Norm Smith moment'.

The suggestion is that sacking HIrd would be as much a travesty as Smith's sacking and that it would have the same effect on EFC's future that Smith's sacking had on MFC. I've even seen the phrase 'Hird curse' used as a potential mirror of our own Norm Smith curse.

They are definitely onto something, but it is the Kevin Sheedy curse of which they speak.

Sadly for them it occurred in the past and so there is absolutely nothing they can do about it.

Look at the comedy of clusterstuffs that have occurred since and including Sheedy's sacking, ah the memories.

Hurriedly sacking Sheedy to secure Voss who then said "Nah" thus leaving them with their pants down having just alienated their greatest ever coach, right up to the current comedy that never stops giving.

May the next 50 years bring them as much joy as our last 50 have.

Welcome to the curse club Essendon, make yourself at home cos it's a long ride.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,465]

I have a confession to make: I'm fascinated by the 'Sorry Saga' thread on Bomberblitz. You have to join the site to read it (or even see it listed), which doesn't feel right, but for some reason it's captured my attention. It's entertaining to read that thread and then to return to D'land to read this thread.

A few points of contrast with D'land:

1. Bomberblitz is convinced that the media is against EFC. Chip LG seems to be the one exception.

2. 'Stand by Hird' is still a very strong sentiment. I don't think that MFC has ever had anyone that supporters would unconditionally back like HIrd.

3. Most are convinced that the players will be cleared, though there is a growing number who think that a conspiracy will result in bans (ASADA, AFL, other clubs, Federal Gov't, media, courts, etc)

4. Little and Hird are often presented as a united front.

These are my reading of the consensus, so not comprehensive. However, it's striking how consistent Bomberblitz can be.

It's a good case study in mass psychology - not to dig up old graves but you would have seen a similar thing on here during the tanking fiasco.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,465]

Sounds like one of my best friends. Very intelligent, very successful. Calm and level-headed. I regularly call on his advice and support. We have gone to many EFC-MFC games and he is a good sport: he can cope with me if MFC win and he's fine to be around if EFC win.

But this situation...

This is different their club is faced with nuclear obliteration and they are still in the "denial" stage of grief.

[sue 8,441]

It's a good case study in mass psychology - not to dig up old graves but you would have seen a similar thing on here during the tanking fiasco.

Quite a different cemetery to be digging up old graves in. Point by point:

1.Yes, many here thought we were picked on by the media when we were not the only tankers. No such evidence has emerged of other clubs doing what Essendon has. Furthermore, a large slab of the media is supporting Essendon. At least our paranoia was reasonably based.

2. Stand by who in our case? There was no god-like Hird figure for us to stand by.

3. Unlike EFC supporters, most of us thought we would not be cleared. Though of course we were .......

[Uncle Fester 2,835]

Still running the line "we believe it was an illegal investigation" even though the a Magistrate and the Court of Appeal not only disagreed but smashed him.for a six for wasting the courts time. Take your medicine Hirdy and front up to the disgrace you've helped bring on the club.

Can you imagine what the reaction to this whole saga would've been not just from theedia but the EFC supporters of this had not happened under Hird but had happened under his predecessor Matty Knights? I think the reaction from all angles would've been VASTLY different and he would've been sacked if not immediately then at least when the penalties were handed down in August 2013.

Heh. Knights would have been half way throught the very first press conference on this when Robbo stormed the stage and tried to kill him.

[biggestred 4,315]

How on earth can hirdy still believe the investigation was illegal?

I guess he has better law knowledge than 4 federal court judges. Just amazing.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

What a great set of figures keep cropping up 18 - 24

I just wish it was years. That way I will not have to listen their crap for the rest of my life.

[What 18,810]

What a great set of figures keep cropping up 18 - 24

yes please.

Can you imagine how long it would take them to recover? There is every chance they never would.

The fallout will be cataclysmic. It is a beautiful thing!

[bing181 8,169]

Nah, I know two...

Me too. One has given up on footy and now follows soccer, and the other - a lawyer - has cancelled his membership. Still supports the club, but not Hird, Little and the people running it.

A third Bombers-supporting friend has become numb to all things Essendon, so hard to even know if he's still on board or not.

[JP_ 60]

It's a good case study in mass psychology - not to dig up old graves but you would have seen a similar thing on here during the tanking fiasco.

I think it's also a phenomenon that's becoming much more common and virulent in the internet age. It used to be that one would have to get one's news from the mass media, and if one wanted to discuss an issue then it would have to be with one's social peers. In this way, it would be nearly impossible to avoid being confronted with arguments or facts that run contrary to one's own world view, and one would be pressed to adjust accordingly. These days, we can log onto the internet, and never have to hear a single opinion that one doesn't like. In politics, for example, it would be possible for me to log onto a partisan media outlet and then onto a forum populated entirely by people who entirely agree with me. I can go the whole day and have every single one of my opinions reinforced and not a single one of them challenged. It's almost inevitable that my ideas will become radicalized and increasingly distanced from reality.

This is basically what's happened to essendon supporters now. They only trust some specific members of the media (I.e. Those who are pro essendon sycophants), they refuse to discuss the issue with their peers and they retreat at the first opportunity to their safe-place forums. Ideas that are expressed there snowball, and speculative ideas soon grow - through mass repetition and lack of questioning - into simply unimpeachable truths. Like their political equivalents, football fans on a football forum begin to develop a siege mentality, and become increasingly dependent on paranoid conspiracy theories to keep the increasingly unstable construct standing. For essendon supporters, this has become the simply unquestionable mantra that their is a joint afl, Asada and mass media conspiracy to persecute essendon even though they've done nothing wrong. Why any of these parties would be motivated to do such a thing is, of course, not a question that anyone there is permitted to ask.

When it becomes inconvenient or even not permitted to question the basis of one's world view, inevitably incoherence will begin to set in because one is unreflectively just accepting convenient talking points without making any attempt to calibrate them against empirical reality. In such a way, inconsistencies - obvious to anyone but the group themselves - begin to set in. The club don't know what the players took but it was nothing illegal. Hird cards deeply about the welfare of the players but has no idea what the players were being injected with. Asada and the AFL are simultaneously evil, calculating masterminds and bumbling idiots. And so on -reality very quickly runs away from you if you aren't forced to take stock of it every now and then. That, incidentally, is why it's good to have people who reliably go against the group opinion on boards such as this one, rather than hounding them out of town at the first opportunity.

[binman 38,357]

I think it's also a phenomenon that's becoming much more common and virulent in the internet age. It used to be that one would have to get one's news from the mass media, and if one wanted to discuss an issue then it would have to be with one's social peers. In this way, it would be nearly impossible to avoid being confronted with arguments or facts that run contrary to one's own world view, and one would be pressed to adjust accordingly. These days, we can log onto the internet, and never have to hear a single opinion that one doesn't like. In politics, for example, it would be possible for me to log onto a partisan media outlet and then onto a forum populated entirely by people who entirely agree with me. I can go the whole day and have every single one of my opinions reinforced and not a single one of them challenged. It's almost inevitable that my ideas will become radicalized and increasingly distanced from reality.

This is basically what's happened to essendon supporters now. They only trust some specific members of the media (I.e. Those who are pro essendon sycophants), they refuse to discuss the issue with their peers and they retreat at the first opportunity to their safe-place forums. Ideas that are expressed there snowball, and speculative ideas soon grow - through mass repetition and lack of questioning - into simply unimpeachable truths. Like their political equivalents, football fans on a football forum begin to develop a siege mentality, and become increasingly dependent on paranoid conspiracy theories to keep the increasingly unstable construct standing. For essendon supporters, this has become the simply unquestionable mantra that their is a joint afl, Asada and mass media conspiracy to persecute essendon even though they've done nothing wrong. Why any of these parties would be motivated to do such a thing is, of course, not a question that anyone there is permitted to ask.

When it becomes inconvenient or even not permitted to question the basis of one's world view, inevitably incoherence will begin to set in because one is unreflectively just accepting convenient talking points without making any attempt to calibrate them against empirical reality. In such a way, inconsistencies - obvious to anyone but the group themselves - begin to set in. The club don't know what the players took but it was nothing illegal. Hird cards deeply about the welfare of the players but has no idea what the players were being injected with. Asada and the AFL are simultaneously evil, calculating masterminds and bumbling idiots. And so on -reality very quickly runs away from you if you aren't forced to take stock of it every now and then. That, incidentally, is why it's good to have people who reliably go against the group opinion on boards such as this one, rather than hounding them out of town at the first opportunity.

Great post.

[beelzebub 22,225]

For the most part nearly all of lala land live I either denial or abstract arrogant superciliouness.

[Marc Remillard 30]

How on earth can hirdy still believe the investigation was illegal?

I guess he has better law knowledge than 4 federal court judges. Just amazing.

But his wife was taking notes

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

They are definitely onto something, but it is the Kevin Sheedy curse of which they speak.

Sadly for them it occurred in the past and so there is absolutely nothing they can do about it.

Look at the comedy of clusterstuffs that have occurred since and including Sheedy's sacking, ah the memories.

Hurriedly sacking Sheedy to secure Voss who then said "Nah" thus leaving them with their pants down having just alienated their greatest ever coach, right up to the current comedy that never stops giving.

May the next 50 years bring them as much joy as our last 50 have.

Welcome to the curse club Essendon, make yourself at home cos it's a long ride.

The EFC engaged the law firm at which I used work to act on its behalf in connection with issues arising out of the non-renewal of Sheedy's contract.

I had the day to day conduct of the matter.

Suffice to say, I had first hand knowledge of the anger that was felt amongst many very influential EFC Coterie members, and it does not surprise me to hear that this is now being said by certain people.

[biggestred 4,315]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/stephen-dank-says-he-would-do-it-again-20150301-13s29k.html?&utm_source=social&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=nc&eid=socialn:twi-14omn0023-optim-nnn:nonpaid-27/06/2014-social_traffic-all-organicpost-nnn-age-o&campaign_code=nocode&promote_channel=social_twitter

Dont even know where to start with this!

The sports scientist at the centre of the Essendon supplements scandal, Stephen Dank, says that Essendon players knew exactly what they were given and that if he was approached by another club, he would "do it again".

Dank also detailed the substances used at Essendon. "These substances are well and truly part of an established landscape in terms of medicine in this country and overseas. All of these substances have some sort of approval somewhere in the world, for use, both therapeutically and in a general medicial sense," he said

Dank said he had detailed records, which he had left at Essendon.

"It was certainly left on the club intranet," he said. "Those records recorded every player on a spreadsheet for every day, every week, every month of the season.

"You probably need to ask Essendon Football Club [where they are]."

Edited March 1, 2015 by biggestred

[What 18,810]

Dank is off his trolley.

No wonder he and Hird hooked up. They are both insane.

[sue 8,441]

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/stephen-dank-says-he-would-do-it-again-20150301-13s29k.html?&utm_source=social&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=nc&eid=socialn:twi-14omn0023-optim-nnn:nonpaid-27/06/2014-social_traffic-all-organicpost-nnn-age-o&campaign_code=nocode&promote_channel=social_twitter

Dont even know where to start with this!

The man is mad. Somewhere in the universe

[biggestred 4,315]

Dank has absolutely DESTROYED essendon in that interview.

No longer can the players claim innocence or that they were duped.

No longer can essendon pretend they didnt have records.

and "some approval somewhere in the world"

wow.

[daisycutter 28,568]

that will give bomberblitz something to talk about

at least another 100+ thread pages by the end of the week

wish i'd signed up, but it would just make me feel dirty

[Dees2014 2,377]

I think it's also a phenomenon that's becoming much more common and virulent in the internet age. It used to be that one would have to get one's news from the mass media, and if one wanted to discuss an issue then it would have to be with one's social peers. In this way, it would be nearly impossible to avoid being confronted with arguments or facts that run contrary to one's own world view, and one would be pressed to adjust accordingly. These days, we can log onto the internet, and never have to hear a single opinion that one doesn't like. In politics, for example, it would be possible for me to log onto a partisan media outlet and then onto a forum populated entirely by people who entirely agree with me. I can go the whole day and have every single one of my opinions reinforced and not a single one of them challenged. It's almost inevitable that my ideas will become radicalized and increasingly distanced from reality.

This is basically what's happened to essendon supporters now. They only trust some specific members of the media (I.e. Those who are pro essendon sycophants), they refuse to discuss the issue with their peers and they retreat at the first opportunity to their safe-place forums. Ideas that are expressed there snowball, and speculative ideas soon grow - through mass repetition and lack of questioning - into simply unimpeachable truths. Like their political equivalents, football fans on a football forum begin to develop a siege mentality, and become increasingly dependent on paranoid conspiracy theories to keep the increasingly unstable construct standing. For essendon supporters, this has become the simply unquestionable mantra that their is a joint afl, Asada and mass media conspiracy to persecute essendon even though they've done nothing wrong. Why any of these parties would be motivated to do such a thing is, of course, not a question that anyone there is permitted to ask.

When it becomes inconvenient or even not permitted to question the basis of one's world view, inevitably incoherence will begin to set in because one is unreflectively just accepting convenient talking points without making any attempt to calibrate them against empirical reality. In such a way, inconsistencies - obvious to anyone but the group themselves - begin to set in. The club don't know what the players took but it was nothing illegal. Hird cards deeply about the welfare of the players but has no idea what the players were being injected with. Asada and the AFL are simultaneously evil, calculating masterminds and bumbling idiots. And so on -reality very quickly runs away from you if you aren't forced to take stock of it every now and then. That, incidentally, is why it's good to have people who reliably go against the group opinion on boards such as this one, rather than hounding them out of town at the first opportunity.

I agree this is so now, but once the penalties are handed out, the court appeals are exhausted, and ESSENDON start destroying itself in a quagmire of litigation and recrimination, I think supporters, or many of them, will turn on Hird and Little. Of course, there will still be the hardcore, just as there were for many of the outdated ideologies of the 20th century,

This will be facilitated by endless histories of the saga, in books, newspaper exposes, and dare I say it television mini series. Slowly, Hird and Little will be seen to be the villains of the peace, the EFC will recover from Ashes, and Hird's name will be seen in very much the same way as Armstong's is today ie a golden boy who cheated and got found out and justly got punished with the full force of the law.

[whatwhat say what 19,039]

dank is off his rocker.

[bing181 8,169]

dank is off his rocker.

Not sure if he was ever on his rocker.

Also out of his depth, being neither sports scientist, nor doctor, nor even a physio: he's a rogue biochemist, though there seems some question as to his qualifications and expertise even in that field.

[rjay 23,922]

Not sure if he was ever on his rocker.

Also out of his depth, being neither sports scientist, nor doctor, nor even a physio: he's a rogue biochemist, though there seems some question as to his qualifications and expertise even in that field.

On or off his rocker, he is right to question where the records are...

If he posted them on the intranet which you would think is the case then what has happened to them. If he didn't then what the hell were the EFC doing and why do they think they know what the players have taken.