Jake Lever

[Davos 769]

Forget his on-field abilities for a second, and think about what his personality will bring to the group.

We desperately need more guys with grit, strong characters who help define a group and bring the best out of those around them. Where's our Voss, Selwood, Hodge etc?

If he can play, which it sounds like he can, then surely we must take him at 3. The potential benefits are far too good to pass up.

[Cards13 9,117]

Forget if he can actually play footy??

[Akum 2,660]

I don't think there's any "if" about his ability to play footy. He captained Vic Metro as a bottom-ager, FCS.

He's a good strong contested mark, great in traffic, great decision-making & disposal.

After Petracca & Brayshaw, he's got to come close to "next-best available"just with sheer ability.

[KingDingAling 3,737]

I don't think there's any "if" about his ability to play footy. He captained Vic Metro as a bottom-ager, FCS.

He's a good strong contested mark, great in traffic, great decision-making & disposal.

After Petracca & Brayshaw, he's got to come close to "next-best available"just with sheer ability.

He is coming off an ACL and that simply cannot be ignored.

At pick 3, there is too much risk IMO.

[Akum 2,660]

He is coming off an ACL and that simply cannot be ignored.

At pick 3, there is too much risk IMO.

Fair enough. But if we're going purely for "best available" or "best natural footballer" and ignoring everything else, it has to be either him or Laverde.

[dazzledavey36 52,477]

He is coming off an ACL and that simply cannot be ignored.

At pick 3, there is too much risk IMO.

Agree thats my only slight problem with him..

[thedirtydog24 18]

He's a star. Would take him at 3 in a heartbeat.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,344]

The knee is a concern for an athletic big man. His frame, talent and athleticism lead to a huge strain on his body.

I'm not doubting his leadership and abilities, but he hasn't played footy in a year and when a KPP does his knee in match simulations... It's gotta start some alarm bells ringing.

If we do pick him, I can see myself holding my breath with every weave and baulk.

[dazzledavey36 52,477]

You only have to look st Alex Johnson and Morabito with the on going ACL problems.

We drafted Max Gawn who had a knee reco and to this day he is still battling knee problems.

Unfortunately I have now come to the conclusion that its just too much of a risk to use pick 3 on him.

[rjay 24,543]

You only have to look st Alex Johnson and Morabito with the on going ACL problems.

We drafted Max Gawn who had a knee reco and to this day he is still battling knee problems.

Unfortunately I have now come to the conclusion that its just too much of a risk to use pick 3 on him.

It is a concern 'dazzle', but there are a lot that do one knee then go on to have a great career. Robert Murphy is one that comes to mind. He has everything to be a star but if he hadn't done the knee we wouldn't be having this discussion, he would be heading to St Kilda at number one.

[Machsy 2,858]

He is coming off an ACL and that simply cannot be ignored.

At pick 3, there is too much risk IMO.

I'd say this is an antiquated view of ACLs.

It's better to think of it in terms of a hamstring, with a longer recovery time.

Every so often a player suffers a bad hammy that leads to chronic hamstring injuries, but like ACL, this is a ratety, not the norm.

It is now quite a common procedure with an expected full recovery.

Unless there's something you know that we don't, your concerns are largely unfounded.

[TheoX 1,218]

I'd say this is an antiquated view of ACLs.

It's better to think of it in terms of a hamstring, with a longer recovery time.

Every so often a player suffers a bad hammy that leads to chronic hamstring injuries, but like ACL, this is a ratety, not the norm.

It is now quite a common procedure with an expected full recovery.

Unless there's something you know that we don't, your concerns are largely unfounded.

My god, you're comparing and ACL reco to a hammy tear. Wow. Players that have done an ACL in elite sport have a much higher chance of doing an ACL again as well as other knee injuries, and that's not unfounded, look it up.

[Machsy 2,858]

My god, you're comparing and ACL reco to a hammy tear. Wow. Players that have done an ACL in elite sport have a much higher chance of doing an ACL again as well as other knee injuries, and that's not unfounded, look it up.

I know you struggle with simple concepts, so I'll try to help.

It's a different percentage obviously, but an ACL is just a longer term injury with a chance of full recovery, to never occur again, or alternatively to create a chronic injury that will plague him for the rest of his career.

It is now a very common procedure, and doctors are much more experienced and proficient at performing the procedure.

There are many players who have experienced an ACL injury and never had any recurring issues as a result.

Just like hamstrings.

Unless of course you have some inside info on Lever's injury that would lead you to assume he is prone to re-injury, in which case I'm all ears...

[Deestroy All 14,262]

Does anyone know or has anyone seen how he did his knee? Collision, landing, vigorous movement, simple change of direction etc... ?

[Machsy 2,858]

They don't come any more impressive than this.

https://www.soundcloud.com/sen1116/jake-lever-on-morning-glory

Talks about him help coaching the midfield at Calder Cannons, seeing himself as having to play as a midfielder as the game is going that way, and him idolising Paul Roos...

[Machsy 2,858]

Does anyone know or has anyone seen how he did his knee? Collision, landing, vigorous movement, simple change of direction etc... ?

Preseason training jarred it.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2014-04-01/twin-talls-aim-high

GRADUALLY things were getting easier for Jake Lever. After having his left knee reconstructed in December last year following a training mishap, Lever came to terms with the fact he would not play a game in his draft year.

Peter Wright was devastated when he heard Lever was out for 2014. Wright, his Cannons teammate, was with Lever at the Gold Coast with the AIS-AFL Academy when he hurt his knee, then only thought to be jarred.

[Sideshow Bob 2,200]

Does anyone know or has anyone seen how he did his knee? Collision, landing, vigorous movement, simple change of direction etc... ?

From the AFL website

"Like many knee injuries, the incident was thought to be relatively innocuous. Lever jumped, stretched and punched the ball away in a contest, but came down on his leg the wrong way."

About par for doing an ACL - the vast majority are done either landing or chageing direction. This doesn't mean he has an inherent weakness like those on here wringing their own necks would have you believe. The knee for one reason or another rotates and bends inwards - from front on its called valgus ( bowing inwards). This happens in most landing and cutting movements however in ACL injuries, the angle is generally far greater than normal. Could be a technique issue or a lack of proprioception or the turf giving way or he was knocked off balance just before landing. The current thoughts on rehab and prevention are to teach how to land and turn/cut keeping the knee from bending inwards. It's all about leg control from the glutes/core. The research is showing good results with preventative training (following the PEP program/FIFA11 style exercises) The surgery and rehab is far better now than when Schwartz did his initially and in my opinion (after 20 years working in sports physiotherapy) poses no real further risk of injury if the surgery and rehab has been successfully implemented than any other young kid who hasn't gone through it and come out the other side.

Yes there are instances of particular people that have had numerous reco's but there is nothing to suggest this would be the case. And how many of those recurrent ones are due to inherent weaknesses? Could it be that the surgery or the rehab wasn't up to scratch? One would hope that serious improvements have been made in the last 2 decades.

[Deestroy All 14,262]

Thanks fellas.

Landing on it, it happens.

The ones that just give out during a simple direction change are more worrying.

[Machsy 2,858]

Lever article on the AFL website.

The so-called "injury ravaged"* defender has shown in scans to have a fully entact ACL, with no damage around the area.

Pick him at 3, if he's still there. I'd laugh if McCartin went at 1, and Petracca ended up falling to pick 4.

*so-called by those who don't actually have any clue to his injury status.

[TheoX 1,218]

in my opinion (after 20 years working in sports physiotherapy) poses no real further risk of injury if the surgery and rehab has been successfully implemented than any other young kid who hasn't gone through it and come out the other side.

Don't agree with all the evidence available that says this is not the case?

[Akum 2,660]

Lever article on the AFL website.

The so-called "injury ravaged"* defender has shown in scans to have a fully entact ACL, with no damage around the area.

Pick him at 3, if he's still there. I'd laugh if McCartin went at 1, and Petracca ended up falling to pick 4.

*so-called by those who don't actually have any clue to his injury status.

And the same article mentions him being "courageous and combative" and "his aggression, game sense & competitive streak" as some of his strengths.

[jacey 333]

Good luck to the kid.

Too many red flags for a pick 3.

Easy pass.

[Machsy 2,858]

Good luck to the kid.

Too many red flags for a pick 3.

Easy pass.

As opposed to a lumbering forward that can't kick?

A rangey wingman that can't win contested footy?

There's going to be a handful of red flags with whoever we choose at pick 3.

Lever is the best prospect in my opinion.

[Sideshow Bob 2,200]

Don't agree with all the evidence available that says this is not the case?

Off the top of my head the average number of recurrent ACL's in the AFL are about 4 per year.... a total 4 across 18 teams with 45 odd players on a list. The total number of ACL injuries is averaged out to about 14 per year.

2013 was an odd year with 8 recurrences, 3 of which were synthetic LARS ligament failures - so 5 traditional graft failures. There was also a total of 23 that year - certainly a much higher rate than other years so 15 were new injuries.

Yep I'll stick to my thoughts that reinjury is far from a certainty, and that really it doesn't pose a greater risk than picking any other kid that hasn't had one

[TheoX 1,218]

Off the top of my head the average number of recurrent ACL's in the AFL are about 4 per year.... a total 4 across 18 teams with 45 odd players on a list. The total number of ACL injuries is averaged out to about 14 per year.

2013 was an odd year with 8 recurrences, 3 of which were synthetic LARS ligament failures - so 5 traditional graft failures. There was also a total of 23 that year - certainly a much higher rate than other years so 15 were new injuries.

Yep I'll stick to my thoughts that reinjury is far from a certainty, and that really it doesn't pose a greater risk than picking any other kid that hasn't had one

OK let's take your figures disregarding 2013. The average number of ACL reco's per year is 14. 4 of those are recurrent, 10 of them are new ACL's. How many players in the AFL? 700 odd? So 10 out of ~700 do a fist time ACL, how many players have had one already? 20? 30? 4 of those do an ACL. The risk is much higher for those who have had an ACL already. Expert opinion is the lowest form of evidence you can get.