Analysing our list - Who is AFL standard.

[Sir Why You Little 36,985]

Seeing the China Southern Logo behind Roos last night at the press conference was a wake up call.

This company will get no value from this club unless the axe is thrown down

20-25 of our list need to be shown the door as quick as possible.

Careers over.

It is disgusting how this club has and is being treated.

Having a forward line yesterday would have made little difference to the skill level of the midfield.

Throw the axe Roosy.

[Soidee 1,496]

Grimes and Trenners have both not come up. Both put in a poor game and they are so called leaders.

It ain't good enough and both these lads need to step it up very damn quickly

[nutbean 8,838]

Having a forward line yesterday would have made little difference to the skill level of the midfield.

You mean having someone over 180cm to kick to is a bad thing ?

Our skill level is down but don't tell me a fit Dawes, Clark and a young Hogan wouldn't make some difference.

Contested marks in the forward 50 - Shannon Bynes - 1

[Sir Why You Little 36,985]

You mean having someone over 180cm to kick to is a bad thing ?

Our skill level is down but don't tell me a fit Dawes, Clark and a young Hogan wouldn't make some difference.

Contested marks in the forward 50 - Shannon Bynes - 1

we may have lost by 80 points rather than 93.

The skill level in the middle is the largest problem.

The game was over in 10 minutes.

[jazza 1,323]

Grimes and Trenners have both not come up. Both put in a poor game and they are so called leaders.

It ain't good enough and both these lads need to step it up very damn quickly

funny you say that.

i copped flack on here for calling them gravediggers.

but thats what they are,doesnt mean they should be dropped,it just means they have to be in the right spot.

and we dont have the cattle to extract the best out of them.

[jackaub 1,402]

funny you say that.

i copped flack on here for calling them gravediggers.

but thats what they are,doesnt mean they should be dropped,it just means they have to be in the right spot.

and we dont have the cattle to extract the best out of them.

Yes Jazza many here made an early call on Trengove only to be derided by others here

[rjay 24,887]

Yes Jazza many here made an early call on Trengove only to be derided by others here

He has been disappointing, showed a bit early but seems totally lost now.

The competition has passed him by. I still hold out faint hope but now he is not even holding his marks and that was a feature of his game and in part why the Bartel comparisons.

[Ted Lasso 19,311]

Seeing the China Southern Logo behind Roos last night at the press conference was a wake up call.

This company will get no value from this club unless the axe is thrown down

20-25 of our list need to be shown the door as quick as possible.

Careers over.

It is disgusting how this club has and is being treated.

Having a forward line yesterday would have made little difference to the skill level of the midfield.

Throw the axe Roosy.

I agree, we will be a totally different side next year, might only be a handful of blokes who are safe right now

[Gipsy Danger 1,067]

I really think that Trengove has been "over coached" and tries too hard to toe the company line. He has spent so long trying to make sure he does what he has been told and play the game plan to the letter of the law that he has forgotten how to play on instinct and do the things that had him universally touted as a top 2 draft pick back in 09.

He just seemed such a better player under Bails and when Neeld came in and dumped the captaincy on him he just seemed to take it on himself to be the player the coach wanted everyone to be. Problem was the coach was a moron and damaged the club and Trenners almost beyond repair. Maybe he just needs his mate $cully back. They did seem to play their best footy together.

[dee-luded 2,959]

1. Jesse Hogan - yes

2. Nathan Jones - yes

3. Christian Salem - yes

4. Jack Watts - yes

5. Jimmy Toumpas - yes

6. Chris Dawes - yes

7. Jack Viney - yes

8. James Frawley - yes

9. Jack Trengove - yes

11. Mitch Clark - yes

12. Dom Tyson - yes

13. Jordie McKenzie - yes

14. Lynden Dunn - yes

18. Daniel Cross - yes

20. Colin Garland - yes

23. Bernie Vince - yes

25. Tom McDonald - yes

31. Jack Grimes - yes

15. Mitch Clisby - ? keep

19. James Strauss - ? keep

22. Viv Michie - ? keep

24. Jay Kennedy-Harris - ? keep

27. Aiden Riley - ? keep

29. Jayden Hunt - ? keep

32. Michael Evans - ? keep

33. Dom Barry - ? keep

37. Max Gawn - ? keep

38. Jeremy Howe - ? keep

42. Jake Spencer - ? keep

48. Jack Fitzpatrick - ? keep

10. Shannon Byrnes - ??? decide end of year

16. Dean Kent - no

17. Sam Blease - offer another 1Yr

21. Cameron Pederson - see contract out

26. Daniel Nicholson - ??? decide end of year

35. Luke Tapscott - ??? decide end of year

40. Mark Jamar - ??? decide end of year

44. Rohan Bail - No

45. Matt Jones - ??? decide end of year

46. Dean Terlich - ??? decide end of year

Rookies:

39. Neville Jetta - ??? decide end of year

41. Alex Georgiou - keep

43. James Harmes - keep

47. Max King - keep

[Ted Lasso 19,311]

1. Jesse Hogan - Keep

2. Nathan Jones -Keep

3. Christian Salem - Keep

4. Jack Watts - Keep

5. Jimmy Toumpas - Keep

6. Chris Dawes - keep if fit

7. Jack Viney - Keep

8. James Frawley - Will leave as a free agent.

9. Jack Trengove - Trade

11. Mitch Clark - Will request trade to Freo or retire.

12. Dom Tyson - Keep

13. Jordie McKenzie - Trade

14. Lynden Dunn - Keep

18. Daniel Cross - Offer one year as playing assistant coach?

20. Colin Garland - Keep

23. Bernie Vince - Keep

25. Tom McDonald - Keep

31. Jack Grimes - Keep

15. Mitch Clisby - Depth Player

19. James Strauss - Depth Player

22. Viv Michie - Keep

24. Jay Kennedy-Harris - Keep

27. Aiden Riley - Too early

29. Jayden Hunt - Too early

32. Michael Evans - Depth player

33. Dom Barry - Delist at end of year

37. Max Gawn - Keep

38. Jeremy Howe - Keep

42. Jake Spencer - Delist

48. Jack Fitzpatrick - Trade

10. Shannon Byrnes - will retire

16. Dean Kent - Keep for 1 more year, showed abit last year.

17. Sam Blease - Trade, 5 years and still can't cement a spot

21. Cameron Pederson - delist

26. Daniel Nicholson - delist

35. Luke Tapscott - delist

40. Mark Jamar - delist

44. Rohan Bail - delist

45. Matt Jones - one more year

46. Dean Terlich - one more year

Rookies:

39. Neville Jetta - gone

41. Alex Georgiou - keep

43. James Harmes - keep

47. Max King - keep

we need 20-25 list changes imo

[jazza 1,323]

dont understand how anybody can even rate hoges as yet.

i havent bothered and wont until we see him 2 years under his belt.

[Gipsy Danger 1,067]

dont understand how anybody can even rate hoges as yet.

i havent bothered and wont until we see him 2 years under his belt.

Be nice if everyone gave all the young kids a couple of years before judging them

[jazza 1,323]

Be nice if everyone gave all the young kids a couple of years before judging them

i try to stay positive at all times about our list.

the only one ive kniffed is michie,just lazy from the first 20 mins yesterday.

although young it is something that cant be coached out,and probably why he was a reserve player.

feel for him,but we are in no position to carry players anymore,those days have to go, as of today.

[Maggot 1977 263]

1. Jesse Hogan - Keep

2. Nathan Jones -Keep

3. Christian Salem - Keep

4. Jack Watts - Keep

5. Jimmy Toumpas - Keep

6. Chris Dawes - keep if fit

7. Jack Viney - Keep

8. James Frawley - Will leave as a free agent.Agree

9. Jack Trengove - Trade

11. Mitch Clark - Will request trade to Freo or retire. Wont play AFL again and sit on our list next year

12. Dom Tyson - Keep

13. Jordie McKenzie - Delist - no one will want him - lack of foot skills has ruined a promising career.

14. Lynden Dunn - Keep

18. Daniel Cross - Offer one year as playing assistant coach (like )

20. Colin Garland - Keep

23. Bernie Vince - Keep

25. Tom McDonald - Keep ( spend all of pre season on his disposal )

31. Jack Grimes - Keep

15. Mitch Clisby - Depth Player

19. James Strauss - Delist

22. Viv Michie - Keep

24. Jay Kennedy-Harris - Keep

27. Aiden Riley - Keep

29. Jayden Hunt - Too early

32. Michael Evans - Delist

33. Dom Barry - Delist at end of year

37. Max Gawn - Keep

38. Jeremy Howe - Keep

42. Jake Spencer - Keep back up to Gawn & Young King

48. Jack Fitzpatrick - Trade

10. Shannon Byrnes - will retire

16. Dean Kent - Keep for 1 more year, showed a bit last year.

17. Sam Blease - Trade / delist

21. Cameron Pederson - delist

26. Daniel Nicholson - delist

35. Luke Tapscott - delist

40. Mark Jamar - delist

44. Rohan Bail - delist

45. Matt Jones - one more year

46. Dean Terlich - one more year

Rookies:

39. Neville Jetta - gone

41. Alex Georgiou - keep

43. James Harmes - keep

47. Max King - keep

so what's that make it 15 changes - Id be happy with that looking that the blokes we have traded in this last year have been some of our better contributors:

Tyson

Vince

JKH

Mitchie

Geogiiou

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

This may paint a depressing picture, but probably worth analysing. Nothing personal against any of the players mentioned, just an honest fans opinion.

*By AFL standard, I refer to their capacity to get a game in another side.

1. Jesse Hogan. Have seen enough to comfortably state he'll be a very good player. Ready-made - Yes.

2. Nathan Jones. Superstar - Yes.

3. Christian Salem. Looks like he could be a good player, but you never know until he plays AFL football - Question mark

4. Jack Watts. Lacks competitive instinct, but is still not a bad player - Yes.

5. Jimmy Toumpas. Has shown flashes, and I'm pretty sure he'll become a solid player, but at this stage, he is unproven. - Question mark

6. Chris Dawes. When fit - Yes

7. Jack Viney. Young, but can confidently say he is AFL standard. Yes

8. James Frawley. His disposal sure isn't AFL standard, but he'll still be quite a loss if he leaves. Yes

9. Jack Trengove. Sad to say that I'm not sure anymore. Time is on his side to prove doubters wrong, but unfortunately he's been declining for the better part of three years. - Question mark

10. Shannon Byrnes. The fact that he is leading our goal kicking sums up our situation perfectly. Lacks height, speed, skill, composure. - No

11. Mitch Clark. When fit, obviously, but who knows if we'll ever see that again. - Yes

12. Dom Tyson. Looks worth more than pick two just by himself. - Yes

13. Jordie McKenzie. Not a bad run-with player, but provides little else. Courageous? Yes. AFL standard? - No

14. Lynden Dunn. Has come along in leaps and bounds under Roos. - Yes

15. Mitch Clisby. Looked OK last year, but the fact he can't crack a game in our current state is a worry. Status as a second-year player gives him leniency. Question mark

16. Dean Kent. OK first year - Question mark.

17. Sam Blease. Has pace and little else. Doesn't apply nearly enough defensive pressure. - No

18. Daniel Cross. Workhorse. - Yes

19. James Strauss. Would love to say yes, but unfortunately injury has held him back, and when he's actually on the park, he hasn't shown much. - No

20. Colin Garland. God we miss him. - Yes

21. Cameron Pederson. - No. Moving on

22. Viv Michie. Hasn't had a great start to his MFC career, but I have faith he'll come along and be a serviceable player. Still - Question mark

23. Bernie Vince. Very good player. - Yes

24. Jay Kennedy-Harris. Has a chance to be handy. Unproven, obviously. Would like to see more. - Question mark

25. Tom McDonald. Good player who would look much better in a side that doesn't get slaughtered each week. - Yes

26. Daniel Nicholson. Lacks skill and football IQ. - No

27. Aiden Riley. From all accounts, seems he might be a good pickup, obviously haven't seen much though. - Question mark

29. Jayden Hunt. Left-field draft choice, Roos obviously sees something though. - Question mark

31. Jack Grimes.Tries, tries, and then tries some more. Unfortunate that his skills let him down so often though. Still, I'd say yes at this stage. Just

32. Michael Evans. Would like to see more. - Question mark

33. Dom Barry. As above. - Question mark

35. Luke Tapscott. Muscle and not much else. - No

37. Max Gawn. Has potential. - Question mark

38. Jeremy Howe. Gee a very tentative yes. Give him the benefit of the doubt as he's copping more attention than he should be. Lack of effort and desire very evident in the first two games. - Yes. Just

40. Mark Jamar. Not anymore - No.

42. Jake Spencer. Tries his heart out, but lacks so much co-ordination that it's not even funny. - No

44. Rohan Bail. Struggles immensely under any sort of pressure. - No

45. Matt Jones. Feel bad considering that he provided us with a lot of help in his first year. But would he get a game for most other AFL sides? - No

46. Dean Terlich.Tries very hard, but is oh so limited by his disposal. Line ball. - Question Mark

48. Jack Fitzpatrick. After showing a bit last year, looks like he's going nowhere fast. - No

Rookies:

39. Neville Jetta - No.

41. Alex Georgiou - Question mark

43. James Harmes - Question mark

47. Max King - Question mark

So of the 42 players on our list, in my opinion 14 are comfortably AFL standard. Of these, questions remain as to long-term future with the club (Dunn and Frawley, Cross due to age), injuries (Dawes and Clark) and general desire (Watts and Howe).

My three conclusions:

1. I think we have been expecting too much of Roos and co. They really don't have a lot to work with, unfortunately

2. It's going to take quite some time to turn this list over

3. I have far too much time on my hands on a Sunday night.

I must say congratulations for your patience and diligence for setting up the pros & cons of every player on the list.

I went to the game on Sunday. I couldn't stand more than 10 min. Into the 2nd half.

Anyone who says Nathan Jones is a superstar, really is a part of the problem.

Any captain of a club that has 7 changers by 1/2 time that costs us 3 goals, should be taken off the ground.

Any past AA full back that reckons he might be worth $700k pay that kicks OOB on the full in a switch then allows his opponent to drill it through from 50m arc. Then good luck on your way. That's not to mention the lolly pop kick to the other captain that I haven't seen raise a sweat in any game he has played. Instant turnover and goal.

As much as I hate the Bombers. Jobe Watson, he leaves nothing in the tank when the game finishes. Grimes walks off fresh as a daisy.

Our team as a whole would only put in 60% for their teammates, club and the supporters.

How would I rate them.

This team on effort is worse than 186.

I have not seen a team that doesn't know how to play basic football. The skills of basic kicking, handball, tackling, & marking we're non existent. A long year is ahead of us.

If Anyone thinks we have 8 players of AFL standard. You are dreaming.

I could go on for hours, but what is the point.

Roos said to give us 5 rounds for the team to show what the game plan is.

I know what the game plan is. Do the players.?

[Sir Why You Little 36,985]

I must say congratulations for your patience and diligence for setting up the pros & cons of every player on the list.

I went to the game on Sunday. I couldn't stand more than 10 min. Into the 2nd half.

Anyone who says Nathan Jones is a superstar, really is a part of the problem.

Any captain of a club that has 7 changers by 1/2 time that costs us 3 goals, should be taken off the ground.

Any past AA full back that reckons he might be worth $700k pay that kicks OOB on the full in a switch then allows his opponent to drill it through from 50m arc. Then good luck on your way. That's not to mention the lolly pop kick to the other captain that I haven't seen raise a sweat in any game he has played. Instant turnover and goal.

As much as I hate the Bombers. Jobe Watson, he leaves nothing in the tank when the game finishes. Grimes walks off fresh as a daisy.

Our team as a whole would only put in 60% for their teammates, club and the supporters.

How would I rate them.

This team on effort is worse than 186.

I have not seen a team that doesn't know how to play basic football. The skills of basic kicking, handball, tackling, & marking we're non existent. A long year is ahead of us.

If Anyone thinks we have 8 players of AFL standard. You are dreaming.

I could go on for hours, but what is the point.

Roos said to give us 5 rounds for the team to show what the game plan is.

I know what the game plan is. Do the players.?

Well said Chippy.

[beelzebub 23,313]

its chaff and wheat... There ARE seeds of a team to build around but there's a hell of a lot of cow feed too.

[KingDingAling 3,752]

I must say congratulations for your patience and diligence for setting up the pros & cons of every player on the list.

I went to the game on Sunday. I couldn't stand more than 10 min. Into the 2nd half.

Anyone who says Nathan Jones is a superstar, really is a part of the problem.

Any captain of a club that has 7 changers by 1/2 time that costs us 3 goals, should be taken off the ground.

Any past AA full back that reckons he might be worth $700k pay that kicks OOB on the full in a switch then allows his opponent to drill it through from 50m arc. Then good luck on your way. That's not to mention the lolly pop kick to the other captain that I haven't seen raise a sweat in any game he has played. Instant turnover and goal.

As much as I hate the Bombers. Jobe Watson, he leaves nothing in the tank when the game finishes. Grimes walks off fresh as a daisy.

Our team as a whole would only put in 60% for their teammates, club and the supporters.

How would I rate them.

This team on effort is worse than 186.

I have not seen a team that doesn't know how to play basic football. The skills of basic kicking, handball, tackling, & marking we're non existent. A long year is ahead of us.

If Anyone thinks we have 8 players of AFL standard. You are dreaming.

I could go on for hours, but what is the point.

Roos said to give us 5 rounds for the team to show what the game plan is.

I know what the game plan is. Do the players.?

Very well said.

[Soidee 1,496]

Well there goes PJs tilt at getting members to re sign. Sows ear and silk purse comes to mind for this lot.

As for Frawley - he is almost our number one sook. I reckon Tommy Mac shows more in recent times.

If they are not capable of hardening up then offload before the club goes into liquidation.

Crowds just will not turn up to watch such rubbish.

[Tatu 416]

Because Hogan is AFL-ready, and would get a game in almost any side in the AFL. Take Freo for instance. Hogan would walk into their lineup as full-forward alongside Pavlich. Would Toumpas get a game ahead of the likes of Mundy, Fyfe, Barlow, Hill, De Boer, Danyle Pearce, Suban, Mzungu etc? No. Would Terlich get a game ahead of Ibbotson, Silvagni, Johnson, Clancee Pearce, Neale, Spurr etc? No.

I love Jack Grimes, but would his disposal errors be acceptable at Fremantle? Absolutely not

lol... How long before you turn on him too?

[manny100 1,501]

We need a little more 'see ball get ball' at all costs ala N Jones. They just do not seem to get the real hard ball often enough and when they do they tend to cough it up to often. Viney in form will add a bit more of this. Dawes and Hogan will give confidence to those with ball in hand.

When Garland, Dawes and Hogan are back I would even look at running Dunn through the midfield as a big bodied mid. I wonder whether those bad habits that Roos talked about are ingrained - if so some of the earlier posters are pretty well on the ball with their assessments!!!!!

If there is no form reversal this year then we will likely get a priority pick.

[dee-luded 2,959]

We need a little more 'see ball get ball' at all costs ala N Jones. They just do not seem to get the real hard ball often enough and when they do they tend to cough it up to often. Viney in form will add a bit more of this. Dawes and Hogan will give confidence to those with ball in hand.

When Garland, Dawes and Hogan are back I would even look at running Dunn through the midfield as a big bodied mid. I wonder whether those bad habits that Roos talked about are ingrained - if so some of the earlier posters are pretty well on the ball with their assessments!!!!!

If there is no form reversal this year then we will likely get a priority pick.

this is the starting point to change the culture & values... hard ball players & add skilled players as they decide tho put their bodies in as well.

we've lost the desire to 'play hard' team wide, over 12 odd years. The Big 'C',,, Culture. since when Sheeds got rid of danny.

'cherry ripe' 'ey danny.

Edited March 31, 2014 by dee-luded

[Demon Disciple 12,068]

I'm going to do this with a very cynical, yet realistic, point of view.

1st/2nd year players are not included, as they have yet to establish themselves.

The following players are of AFL quality:

Nathan Jones, James Frawley, Mitch Clark (when fit), Dom Tyson, Bernie Vince.

Some other players are borderline, but they aren't included on the list, because they either lack the basic skills of football that their position requires on a regular basis, or are just too inconsistent (such as Grimes and Watts).

Quite damning really, but it indicates why we are where we are, and why we have been there for so long.

As for developing young talent. How can any young player have a realistic chance to become a decent player, when there are so few role models to learn from at the club.

[Pennant St Dee 13,118]

Seeing the China Southern Logo behind Roos last night at the press conference was a wake up call.

This company will get no value from this club unless the axe is thrown down

20-25 of our list need to be shown the door as quick as possible.

Careers over.

It is disgusting how this club has and is being treated.

Having a forward line yesterday would have made little difference to the skill level of the midfield.

Throw the axe Roosy.

Really

• A decent forward line would not have allowed the Eagles players to zone off with the knowledge that their team mate would easily win a one on one contest
• A decent forward line either Hogan, Dawes and/or Clark would have lead strongly up the ground creating a hole behind them for Howe to lead into as 3rd/4th tall instead of going stationary one on one
• A decent forward line would have a provided a better contest and not allowed Meth Coast to just park themselves inside our forward 50 just waiting to hit us on the rebound
• A decent forward line would have seen no Pedersen, allowed us to play JKH from the get go as a crumbing forward and not had Toumpas and Byrnes as our two leading targets
• A fit Gawn would have allowed us to not have Spencer going one v 3 with the Meth Coast ruck division all day long and also provided another tall option resting forward and another target for the CHF who lead up the ground and wanted to get the ball in quick

All of this does not mean we win by any means what it means is we could have stretched the Meth Coast defence a bit more and may have provided our mids with the confidence of getting the ball inside 50 nice and early with some belief it would not come straight back out over your head