Watts should be tall forward v. Saints

[Bedraggled Dee 336]

I would rather see Fitz and Gawn given the chance supported by Pedo and Howe. Apparantly Gawn played well for Casey the other day and is a better option than chucking Jack Watts into a role he hasnt trained for and based on previous years is not suited to. This has happened way too much to Watts over the years and is why we have been critisised for porr development. I dont think there is a chance in hell Roos will do that to Watts, as he stated at the season launch, young blokes like Watts are not the saviour of this club and should be left to learn their roles. If he gets th ball in his hands and delivers inside 50 he will put it down the throat of whoever is playing up there anyway.

[Maggot 1977 263]

Watts has trained all pre season as a mid so play him as a mid. Against a heavily undermanned Saints midfield is the perfect opportunity for him gain some confidence in his new role. His unquestionable use of the ball by foot should come into play when he gets some outside ball. Like others have said I think Pedo has worked his ring out this pre season and deserves first crack at CHF. I for one am very confident that we will be rejoicing come Sat night.

[rpfc 28,048]

We are truly in the poo for a KPF if we have to go this low rpfc

We are there.

You can't feel it under your feet?

[TGR 1,367]

Training all summer as a mid will help him 2 ways.

1. His contested ball and defensive pressure must have improved

2. Engine would be better

Our eyes have been very low in our 3 practice games. Will be easier to crowd the ball carrier and defend against. We haven't had the luxury of that 40-50m hit-up or contest.

[Scoop Junior 3,395]

Yeah I'm in the play him forward this week camp.

I think he is a better option than Pederson, and Fitzpatrick isn't yet the type of player you can build a forward line around. He needs some tall support next to him. Howe too will benefit from some more marking support in the forward line.

I know he has trained for the midfield, but you have to be flexible in footy and adapt to the circumstances, and our circumstances are extreme with three key forwards out and possibly two ruckmen also out.

The other benefit is that you can pick an extra midfielder. What Round 1 has shown us so far is that hard running up and down the ground is critical. Starting Watts forward enables us to select another runner in the 22 and there is always the flexibility to push Watts through the midfield at various stages of the game. So the choice is really Pederson + Watts (mid) or Watts (fwd) + extra runner. For me, I'm going for the extra run and Watts has more tricks up forward than Pederson.

[Die Hard Demon 1,213]

Just an idea.. But what if Lynden Dunn goes forward? He's a strong mark and a booming accurate kick. Our biggest concern in the forward line is obviously Roo, who will be covered by T.Mac & then Beau will be mauled by Chip. We could rely on Strauss to be our kick in, and switch play set up kick, as he is also a booming kick. Yes/no/maybe?

[What 18,810]

Im sure he will spend some time forward this week

[Brayshaw Self 847]

Just an idea.. But what if Lynden Dunn goes forward? He's a strong mark and a booming accurate kick. Our biggest concern in the forward line is obviously Roo, who will be covered by T.Mac & then Beau will be mauled by Chip. We could rely on Strauss to be our kick in, and switch play set up kick, as he is also a booming kick. Yes/no/maybe?

Stanley, Lee and/or resting ruckman to worry about as well, possibly.

[Chook 14,997]

Can't we do both? Rotate him through the forwardline and midfield, exchanging with someone like Jeremy Howe who can also play midfield?

[Gipsy Danger 1,067]

Just an idea.. But what if Lynden Dunn goes forward? He's a strong mark and a booming accurate kick. Our biggest concern in the forward line is obviously Roo, who will be covered by T.Mac & then Beau will be mauled by Chip. We could rely on Strauss to be our kick in, and switch play set up kick, as he is also a booming kick. Yes/no/maybe?

Dunn was first drafted as a forward but could never really cut it. But at least if they did try him there to see what happens and Georgiou can come in off the rookie list and not hurt the backline by taking Dunn out

I think that we will need to set up like the Richmond pre season game an really rely on goals coming from the midfield and the small forwards like JKH roving off the feet of Pedo or Howe. With such a fragile and developing forward line, all these midfielders we have stocked up with are going to have to adapt and find a way to put scores on the board regularly rather then just working on clearances.

We could also utilize Watts' height by bringing him up forward as a resting midfield for a few minutes but he cant be relied on as a key forward. Its just not the type of player he is.

If our mids can score heavily it will only help to ease in the forwards as they become available and not become too predictable going forward like Collingwood or Sydney.

[McQueen 17,864]

Just an idea.. But what if Lynden Dunn goes forward? He's a strong mark and a booming accurate kick. Our biggest concern in the forward line is obviously Roo, who will be covered by T.Mac & then Beau will be mauled by Chip. We could rely on Strauss to be our kick in, and switch play set up kick, as he is also a booming kick. Yes/no/maybe?

Dunn stays in defence. He actually appears to know what he's doing so far this year.

[Machsy 2,858]

We are truly in the poo for a KPF if we have to go this low rpfc

Did you see him against Richmond?

Very impressive, hard working and courageous.

Believe it or not.

Really put in and gave me confidence he can be quality depth at Casey.

[old dee 23,491]

Did you see him against Richmond?

Very impressive, hard working and courageous.

Believe it or not.

Really put in and gave me confidence he can be quality depth at Casey.

No Machsy But I saw way too many games last year.

I also notice he has been less than Ordinary the last couple of weeks.

Leopards for me.

Edited March 17, 2014 by old dee

[Satyriconhome 10,339]

No Machsy But I saw way too many games last year.

I also notice he has been less than Ordinary the last couple of weeks.

Leopards for me.

So OD, you reckon he can't learn from past mistakes so as not to repeat them (sound familiar), and realise under a new coach he has a clean slate, do a full pre season, follow instructions and carry out a role.....no?

[Guest]

I'm not for this.

For too long we have been reactionary.

He's done a preseason as a midfielder. Stick to the plan that we have set for 22 games.

[old dee 23,491]

We are there.

You can't feel it under your feet?

I think it is way higher than that It is threatening to go over the top of my waders rpfc

[old dee 23,491]

So OD, you reckon he can't learn from past mistakes so as not to repeat them (sound familiar), and realise under a new coach he has a clean slate, do a full pre season, follow instructions and carry out a role.....no?

I am more than happy for him to have a clean slate with Mr. Roos Saty after all he is the one getting paid $1.5 mill.

But to me he is a one game high lights man.

Needs more than a couple of quarters in a practice match against the tigers to convince me is more than a Casey representative.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,065]

I'm not for this.

For too long we have been reactionary.

He's done a preseason as a midfielder. Stick to the plan that we have set for 22 games.

I'm with you Col. The best thing Jack can do is deliver the ball to our forwards - Pedo and Fitzy is my guess but I will not be surprised if Gawn is also on the scene.

[DeeSpencer 24,731]

So OD, you reckon he can't learn from past mistakes so as not to repeat them (sound familiar), and realise under a new coach he has a clean slate, do a full pre season, follow instructions and carry out a role.....no?

He's not going to become Wayne Carey overnight. He's an ordinary footballer. All the coaching in the world isn't going to make Pedersen fast, skilled or smart enough to be a gun key forward.

But I agree a good preseason of effort and some coaching can make him capable of doing a job. He did the job against Richmond, failed against the Hawks (but so did most of our forwards). He had Astbury on him against the Tigers and Gibson against the Hawks, that's a gap in class there. I'm not sure who the saints have for him, probably one of Delaney, Gwilt, Simpkin or Bruce. Sam Fisher's unlikely to play and Dempster probably takes Howe.

He's got a reasonably simple job in running to space or towards the kicker depending on circumstance. Take 5 marks on the lead, bring the ball to ground if it's a pack or long kick to a contest (no one is expecting strong grabs), compete when the ball is in dispute, pick up your man when they have it and when you get the ball use it wisely.

If he produces that without the easy dropped marks that plague him and silly free kicks then he can contribute.

I'm just as worried about Fitzpatrick getting on the end of good work and taking some marks inside 50 and converting than I am Pedersen beng the work horse at CHF.

[DeeSpencer 24,731]

I'm with you Col. The best thing Jack can do is deliver the ball to our forwards - Pedo and Fitzy is my guess but I will not be surprised if Gawn is also on the scene.

Roos ruled Gawn out today I believe. He'll be set to come in for round 2 presuming he has another reasonably performance for Casey this week. Whether he's in addition to or replacement off either Pedersen or Fitzy probably depends on how they play although I'm nervous about Gawn, Spencer, Fitzy and Pedersen in the same team. With guys like that often less is more.

[Whispering_Jack 29,191]

There was a time when most players were designated to a particular role - centre, wing, half forward flank etc. and they usually didn't change positions except in the odd cases to cover injuries or if players were struggling during a game against opponents. A few decades ago things changed and versatility of players was the flavour of the day.

These days, coaches seem more set in their ways and if Watts has been trained for the midfield then that's where I suspect he'll play although my own personal point of view is that he should be tried out as a KPF in the circumstances in which the club finds itself.

[Scoop Junior 3,395]

I'm not for this.

For too long we have been reactionary.

He's done a preseason as a midfielder. Stick to the plan that we have set for 22 games.

Reactionary or adapting to the circumstances?

And where do you draw the line of sticking to the plan? What if Fitz and Howe were out as well? Would you still play Watts midfield?

I also fail to see how playing Watts forward for a couple of games is going to ruin his midfield prospects. The aim is still to play him through the midfield for the majority of the year - I don't think that one or two games as a key forward is really going to make much difference to his position in the midfield.

This club needs to win games. If playing Pederson forward and Watts in midfield is viewed as more likely to win us the game, then fair enough I am happy with that. But I can't accept not doing what's viewed as the best thing for the team simply because there is a plan for him to play midfield for 22 games.

[Bitter but optimistic 22,065]

Reactionary or adapting to the circumstances?

And where do you draw the line of sticking to the plan? What if Fitz and Howe were out as well? Would you still play Watts midfield?

I also fail to see how playing Watts forward for a couple of games is going to ruin his midfield prospects. The aim is still to play him through the midfield for the majority of the year - I don't think that one or two games as a key forward is really going to make much difference to his position in the midfield.

This club needs to win games. If playing Pederson forward and Watts in midfield is viewed as more likely to win us the game, then fair enough I am happy with that. But I can't accept not doing what's viewed as the best thing for the team simply because there is a plan for him to play midfield for 22 games.

Playing Fitzy and Pedo is a logical move in the circumstances, surely. Our main big men are out so we need to replace them. Pedo drew praise from Roos for his efforts against Richmond and Fitzy has looked his best as a leading forward.

Jack has been tried up forward previously without being a raging success. In fact his best footy has been out of the backline!

All seems quite logical to me.

And as to your "What if Fitz and Howe were out as well" proposition - well they are not - so, at this time, it is irrelevant.

[Rod Grinter Riot Squad 5,654]

He's not going to become Wayne Carey overnight. He's an ordinary footballer. All the coaching in the world isn't going to make Pedersen fast, skilled or smart enough to be a gun key forward.

But I agree a good preseason of effort and some coaching can make him capable of doing a job. He did the job against Richmond, failed against the Hawks (but so did most of our forwards). He had Astbury on him against the Tigers and Gibson against the Hawks, that's a gap in class there.

Think you will find Pedo spent over half the game versus the Dawks in defence

[Guest]

Reactionary or adapting to the circumstances?

And where do you draw the line of sticking to the plan? What if Fitz and Howe were out as well? Would you still play Watts midfield?

I also fail to see how playing Watts forward for a couple of games is going to ruin his midfield prospects. The aim is still to play him through the midfield for the majority of the year - I don't think that one or two games as a key forward is really going to make much difference to his position in the midfield.

This club needs to win games. If playing Pederson forward and Watts in midfield is viewed as more likely to win us the game, then fair enough I am happy with that. But I can't accept not doing what's viewed as the best thing for the team simply because there is a plan for him to play midfield for 22 games.

We have depth players such as Pedo and Fitz for situations like this. They are there to perform when the other forwards go down. If they are good enough, and the team is going well, to keep their spot then they can do so. Same if Jack Watts or another midfield goes down with injury. They get replaced with a midfielder. We tried that with Jack Grimes last year (moving him from defence to prop up a very weak midfield) and I don't think it improved the situation one iota.

The bloke has been training with the midfield group and has been drilled in the ways of the midfield. He will know a bit about the forwards as he has to deliver the ball to them and he has played there a bit but if you do that, you are throwing him in with a new line coach, new set of expectations and a new role. Let him play the role he has been training for (and by all reports very enthusiastically for)

I remember recently watching a doco on the Toigs (which I posted on here) where Bobby Walls was asked what was inherently wrong at Punt Road. One of his answers was that they would say something then change course 6 weeks later. We haven't even played one week yet with JW as a mid or one game at all. Let's go one week before we even consider moving him albeit for a week or two.

And BBO's point is valid. That is all speculation as Fitz and Howe aren't injured.