NAB Challenge 2 - Melbourne v Geelong

[Hannibal 5,814]

I'll watch it again, but I roughly recall us gifting them 4 goals through kicking it backwards only for it to result in a Geelong mark and goal.

Geelong were more poised and had some classier ball movement, but you can already see what we're try to do and I have confidence it will come together.

But it is great to have players and a game plan where we get our hands on the footy. It's one of the most underrated aspects of the game. Control the ball and tempo. We controlled the tempo against Richmond, but we couldn't against Geelong. That will come. Geelong averaged the 4th most possessions in the league last year and we comprehensively won more of the ball.

There's a lot to look forward to.

Edited February 28, 2014 by Hannibal

[Fat Tony 5,231]

• IMO we need to be more aggressive in playing on immediately after a turnover. Our game plan is good when the opposition defensive structures are set, but we go too safe and are too slow to shift the ball early on when we first get possession. I am also not convinced our slow ball movement will work all that well with a very top heavy forward line.
• I also think we are too willing to go backwards from a stoppage to maintain possession rather than just go with a quick kick forward.
• I thought Nicholson was pretty good and it wouldn't surprise me if he was picked in the backline in round one. I like his willingness to run but his kicking is always a worry.
• Michie showed he will be a good pick up.
• Tyson will be a good inside mid and is exactly what we need.
• Watts found the ball well and has lovely poise, but needs to improve his tackling and intensity. I think he will benefit from playing on bigger grounds.
• Hogan did well given the limited supply.
• Fitzpatrick was pretty ordinary.
• Dunn has been excellent so far this year.

Based on the two games and what we know, and assuming Clark and Garland aren’t fit, the Round 1 team is shaping up something as below. The bolded players are locked in.

Dunn Frawley Nicholson

Terlich McDonald Grimes

Trengove Cross Watts

Howe Hogan Tyson

Bail Dawes Kennedy-Harris

Spencer N Jones Vince

Fitzpatrick Michie Viney

Blease

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

• IMO we need to be more aggressive in playing on immediately after a turnover. Our game plan is good when the opposition defensive structures are set, but we go too safe and are too slow to shift the ball early on when we first get possession. I am also not convinced our slow ball movement will work all that well with a very top heavy forward line.
• I also think we are too willing to go backwards from a stoppage to maintain possession rather than just go with a quick kick forward.
• I thought Nicholson was pretty good and it wouldn't surprise me if he was picked in the backline in round one. I like his willingness to run but his kicking is always a worry.
• Michie showed he will be a good pick up.
• Tyson will be a good inside mid and is exactly what we need.
• Watts found the ball well and has lovely poise, but needs to improve his tackling and intensity. I think he will benefit from playing on bigger grounds.
• Hogan did well given the limited supply.
• Fitzpatrick was pretty ordinary.
• Dunn has been excellent so far this year.

Based on the two games and what we know, and assuming Clark and Garland aren’t fit, the Round 1 team is shaping up something as below. The bolded players are locked in.

Dunn Frawley Nicholson

Terlich McDonald Grimes

Trengove Cross Watts

Howe Hogan Tyson

Bail Dawes Kennedy-Harris

Spencer N Jones Vince

Fitzpatrick Michie Viney

Blease

Just on your first point, i think the boys are encouraged to go slow and be patient because they don't have the option of kicking high to the big talls, and no real crumbers, so i'm not concerned by that, it's more the skill errors we need to iron out, but we are certainly not easy beats anymore, reckon we will beat the Saints round 1

[P-man 13,366]

What about Grimes?

To me he seems to be a very average player but I am not sure if I am being to harsh.

He is the captain but he can't hang his hat on that to be selected every week.

Just wondering what others think?

He will have good days and bad days. Last night wasn't his best but his courage and effort is unquestioned, and to my eyes there has been a gradual reduction in the number of howlers. You could bank on him making several a game a few years ago.

[P-man 13,366]

Is it too early in his career to say that we really missed JKH?

It's too early, right?

[Arrow 1,257]

The biggest win from last night was the fact we twice even three times were down by 30-odd points and fought back to be in a position to take over the game. Old Melbourne would've lost by 90 points because 3 goals in a row, and you could literally see heads bow over.

Geelong have a team that trust each other, and even their young guys have 3 years playing with one and other. When the whips cracked they knew what to do, and we didn't, but we've played 2 games as a team! I finished and I was disappointed because we lost, but immediately after I realised when in the last 7 years would I be upset we lost to Geelong by 13 points. More to the fact, with a chance to win it plenty of times. I'm stoked with how last night went. Doing my best to keep my expectations reasonable, I don't want to be heartbroken if we lose winnable games, but the future looks so bright.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

As are your lame pictures

oh dear, that's really the best you have.

You are new round here aren't you?

[Demon Head 273]

Apart from the inclusion of some obvious names into the side, we will be much better off when there are only 22 in the team because the first ones out will be the turnover merchants.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Is it too early in his career to say that we really missed JKH?

It's too early, right?

Too early.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

I don't think Bail will be picked round one, unfortunately.

Looked really lost last night.

[mauriesy 7,296]

Vince, Cross, Tyson and Michie have exponentially improved our midfield, which last year was basically Jones.

Frawley, Garland and McDonald can be settled talls in the backline. The smaller backmen worry me somewhat though, especially their disposal.

Let's just hope we can include another quality tall or two in the forward line.

Edited February 28, 2014 by mauriesy

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

Vince, Cross, Tyson and Michie have exponentially improved our midfield, which last year was basically Jones.

Frawley, Garland and McDonald can be settled talls in the backline. The smaller backmen worry me somewhat though, especially their disposal.

Let's just hope we can include another quality tall or two in the forward line.

What about Geourgiou, tempted to play Dunn as a half forward and keep him in even when Garland is back?

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

Apart from the inclusion of some obvious names into the side, we will be much better off when there are only 22 in the team because the first ones out will be the turnover merchants.

Toumpas was a big offender of turnovers last night but he will be in the best 22 for sure.

I feel he is just finding his range and confidence with his boot. He will come good.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

What about Grimes?

To me he seems to be a very average player but I am not sure if I am being to harsh.

He is the captain but he can't hang his hat on that to be selected every week.

Just wondering what others think?

There were a few instances where I though he could have done more to affect a spoil on a mark, but as it went on he ended up being pretty effective in these moments later. Didn't do a heap with the ball in his hands though. I'll give him 5/10.

[beelzebub 23,376]

Vince, Cross, Tyson and Michie have exponentially improved our midfield, which last year was basically Jones.

Frawley, Garland and McDonald can be settled talls in the backline. The smaller backmen worry me somewhat though, especially their disposal.

Let's just hope we can include another quality tall or two in the forward line.

Tom Macs disposal still worries me. I dont think you can really afford to have abysmal kicking in a team that aspires finals....just saying.

Over all I agree its a quantum jump from last year. Had it not been we'd all be wrist slitting I suspect.

It was a NAB game... to be taken with a pill or two of reality but it showed some things are working and many a work in progress....and as such thats fine. We came up against a well oiled and drilled machine and we made them work and kept them honest and really had it not been for half a dozen gifts to them the outcome might have been different.

We will improve....its al upside really for us. We have 5-6 of the eventual likely best 22 to return, so further inroads are not just possible but likely.

Perspective. That was still only the SECOND hit out "under fire" for this new Dees team. There will be mistakes, there will be a few steps back as we take strides forward. Roos is no doubt sorting the list. Hes giving some opportunities to show why they might be retained,

Again...its NAB ,,,it is encouraging though

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

I am a big believer that it takes a quarter of a season of actual games for a new gameplan to start to become autonomous, i think alot of players get the ball at the moment and think they need to kick it to a bloke who can mark just so it slows the game down, this sometimes seems to mean kicking to strange places

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I too am a Dunn convert.

He'll play his best footy under Roos and become an important ingredient down back.

I love that he gets the kick out and goes for an option about 70 metres from the goal line and regularly finds and hits one. This is clearly an instruction as was Jessee Hogan running a solid 80 metres to get on the end of it on at least 6 occasions. That strategy and execution with specific regard to how we do kick-outs is a total breath of freash air compared to the absolute ineptitude we have witnessed in this aspect for as long as I can remember (seriously all the way back to pre-daniher)

[Lordweaver 235]

Geelong were bigger and executed better, there was a time in the game when I thought we had reverted to 2013 but to our credit we turned it around, Vince, Cross, Tyson, Jones, if they are our top disposal getters on a regular basis we will win a few games this year, didn't like Byrnes game at all, thought some of our execution was poor, Watts gets pushed off the ball to easily but picked up his game in the last quarter, agree that tom Mac's kicking is a concern, Dunn impressed, liked to play on from kickouts, don't like Hogan's kicking action for goal and toumpas has a stutter too, anyway good signs

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Positives - the four midfield inclusions. Vince, Cross, Tyson and Michie.

- a more effective gameplan.

- players starting to trust and back themselves and each other.

- did well stopping what could have been a flood of goals a couple of times. No Frawley or Garland.

Negatives - still far far far too many ridiculous skill errors that Melbourne players seem to make. Seriously.

- The new mids MUST push these guys out for round 1. It's inexcusable at this level.

I know there were a number of errors from different players. But the same guys too

often turn the ball over.

- not enough quality ball uses on the list, and that needs to improve over the next couple of years.

Edited March 1, 2014 by stevethemanjordan

[Young Dee 1,303]

Do people still see Terlich and M Jones as best 22? All off-season I was the opinion of no, from what I saw tonight, it's now an even firmer NO. Clisby is clearly a better prospect than Terlich while the new midfield recruits suddenly make M Jones look superfluous and sub-par.

It's a harsh call given their backgrounds but if these two play 20+ games again we're in trouble.

I have always thought this - with mature age recruits what you see is what you get (Magner, M Jones, Terlich - have little room to improve - and at +25yrs are supposedly at their peak).

I expect Jones to be pushed out of the side this year (why I was astounded we game him a long contract last year... I think) as for Terlich - he has a chance because of his aggression but Grimes is in front (due to decsion making).

I think you only need one of a grimes/Terlich kind - combined with our 3 to 4 talls (Frawley, Garland, Mcdonald and Dunn) we only need a mid-sized/quick defender with good kicking skills (Strauss type?). Plus throw in a developing Clisby.

Never really been a fan of mature age recruits (I was not keen on the Georgiou selection). Even if Jones and Terlich are pushed out of the team they would have served their purpose and can still be used as depth.

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

I reckon Terlich, Clisby and Strauss are kinda fighting for that half back spot at the minute, Terlich is probably ahead but Clisby played well last night.

[Return to Glory 8,441]

Can anybody tell me where Evans is at in regards to injury?

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

didn't like Byrnes game at all, thought some of our execution was poor, Watts gets pushed off the ball to easily but picked up his game in the last quarter, agree that tom Mac's kicking is a concern, don't like Hogan's kicking action for goal and toumpas has a stutter too

Agree with Byrnes, but he also had 2 direct goal assists from hitting the right spot with kicks

I thought watts showed a lot more strength over the football and fight, first quarter was really really solid

Tom macs kicking wasn't even that bad, but his shut down job on Hawkins was very good

The stutter is a roos directive, hogan stopped going it last year at Vfl level and his goal kicking suffered, if it's comfortable to them then leave it. His around the ground kicking action is more of a swing than a kick aswell. I think people are so over reactive to a stutter if it is comfortable to the player taking the set shot it shouldn't be changed as the change has a negative effect

[Dr. Gonzo 24,219]

Wacthed the replay this morning as was out watching Dave Chappelle last night (great show BTW!) - I was pretty satisfied overall with the way they played, Geelong was taking it a little easy (bringing Selwood off first quarter) but we are definitely developing and have improved our midfield significantly since last year with the additions of Cross, Vince, Tyson & Michie. Our problems come down to over-possessing the ball (one or two too many possessions getting us into trouble) and skill errors causing turnovers resulting in goals. Clean these up which will happen with time and experience as well as dropping the likes of Nicho, Byrnes, Bail and we'll start to get the results sooner than some might think.

[Dees2014 2,377]

Game plan is good, execution was poor.

60 more disposals but considerably less inside 50s and where it matters - on the scoreboard.

A lot of new players, so good to learn and get this over and done with in the NAB and not the h&a season!

I know this is true, but imagine the difference it will make when we have all of Dawes, Fitz, Hogan, Howe, JKH and eventually Clark in the same side. At the moment we know we have to hold up the ball movement to make sure our forwards are in position so we don't turn it over as we move forward, so often we choose to go backwards.

I think it will emerge when we get our full forward line that rather than chipping it around ALL the time, we will mix it up more as we go forward. There will be more emphasis on fast ball movement into the forward line which by necessity will mean sometimes long bombing it, but also understanding that we have the marking power down there to enable us to monster some, what Paul Roos describes as, "free" goals. It will also make a huge difference to the key stats of "inside 50" and "marks inside 50", both of which were well down last night, but our ball possession was way above Geelong. We seen to have no trouble getting the ball (a testament to our new mid-field), but our options are limited at the moment as to what we do with it until we get our full team. A good test will be against Hawthorn next week where we should see a further development in how we play. Hopefully it will not be as windy as it sometimes is at Casey, which like in the Alice, will not be good for the gameplan.

What will emerge is a refined gameplan to suit the cattle on the park. At the moment it is essentially defensive because that is the ability we have on the field. In its mature form it will be much more multi dimensional and so much more powerful. Hawthorn should be a good test.

A further refinement which might be worth a try in these practice games is to have one of the monster forwards ( Hogan, Dawes, preferably Clark later on) not chase the ball up the field which is the want of the modern game, but have him parked in or near the goal square permanently in anticipation than more often than not he will get the ball. If this happen, it will make double teaming more difficult. This only works though if you are confident we can maintain and get ball possession so the long bomb can be used. You only need this to work three or four times a match and it could be the difference between wining and losing. Hogan in particular is first class at monstering the opposition. Many of his goals at Casey were as a result of strong pack marks near goal. I would hate to think what he would do in an almost permanent one one one.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Dees2014