Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[DubDee 22,109]

I work in the Pharma industry (yeah im a sell out) and can confirm the vial would not be an approved drug by the TGA. There are extremely tight regulations around registering drugs, submitted the package and labelling for approval etc.

What I find interesting is that there seems to be no consquences for Essendon taking all the other unapproved drugs (regardless of if they are banned). like AOD etc. So ASADA/AFL is basically saying it is cool to inject random drugs that have not been approved for use just because they are not on the banned list? sounds crazy to me, these drugs could do anything or nothing or when combined with other unknown drugs could react adversely. They got punished for governance but this is more than governance issues. This is an unbelievablly reckless act that shows no regard for the players safety

I am staggered that the media has decided to go easy on the bombers (aside from Caro). I would expect nothing less than Hird sacked and banned, Board sacked and all players getting a minimum of 12 months

[Dees2014 2,377]

Essendon could be allowed to use state-league pinch-hitters in a drugs doomsday scenario

This is also something thats been suggested for a while. You only do that when you really think it might just occur.

Kinda suggests to me the AFL will take a bit of a back seat and allow ASADA its rite of passage.

I only think this because the AFL is so...SO compromised its only real option is to do nothing but look like its doing something.

I think it while ultimately be taken out of the AFLs hand. WADA through COAIS will determine it IMHO. From any other bodies, there are just too many vested interests and conflicting agendas to get a fair outcome in line with WADA rules.

[deefrag 277]

I work in the Pharma industry (yeah im a sell out) and can confirm the vial would not be an approved drug by the TGA. There are extremely tight regulations around registering drugs, submitted the package and labelling for approval etc.

What I find interesting is that there seems to be no consquences for Essendon taking all the other unapproved drugs (regardless of if they are banned). like AOD etc. So ASADA/AFL is basically saying it is cool to inject random drugs that have not been approved for use just because they are not on the banned list? sounds crazy to me, these drugs could do anything or nothing or when combined with other unknown drugs could react adversely. They got punished for governance but this is more than governance issues. This is an unbelievablly reckless act that shows no regard for the players safety

I am staggered that the media has decided to go easy on the bombers (aside from Caro). I would expect nothing less than Hird sacked and banned, Board sacked and all players getting a minimum of 12 months

Workcover, TGA and others seem to be letting ASADA do the heavy lifting! If ASADA can beat Hird and get players suspended we will then hopefully see the ball bounced for the main game. I want two front row tickets for that one!

[deanox 9,026]

Not long ago the AFL ruled that it would not give help to clubs with past records of offending against AFL rules so the Bombers would not qualify for any special draft assistance because they of their governance sanctions on the doping issue in August 2013. Besides that, they have promising young players like Joe Daniher and the Merrett boys plus James Gwilt who they recently picked up as a bargain through delisted free agency as well as two picks in the top 20 in next week's draft. Whatever happens, they don't deserve or need any special assistance from the AFL to help them out in these circumstances.

I'm going to borrow this. Well said.

[beelzebub 22,762]

Not long ago the AFL ruled that it would not give help to clubs with past records of offending against AFL rules so the Bombers would not qualify for any special draft assistance because they of their governance sanctions on the doping issue in August 2013. Besides that, they have promising young players like Joe Daniher and the Merrett boys plus James Gwilt who they recently picked up as a bargain through delisted free agency as well as two picks in the top 20 in next week's draft. Whatever happens, they don't deserve or need any special assistance from the AFL to help them out in these circumstances.

Jack...I agree... They quite frankly can go to hell.....and learn to play through it for the next ten years !!

[monoccular 16,703]

How ridiculous will it be when the players get rubbed out, and Hird is still coach. That club is a joke. I wonder if they would have stood by Knights if he was a drug cheat?

They didn't stand by Knights even when he wasn't a drug cheat!

I work in the Pharma industry (yeah im a sell out) and can confirm the vial would not be an approved drug by the TGA. There are extremely tight regulations around registering drugs, submitted the package and labelling for approval etc.

What I find interesting is that there seems to be no consquences for Essendon taking all the other unapproved drugs (regardless of if they are banned). like AOD etc. So ASADA/AFL is basically saying it is cool to inject random drugs that have not been approved for use just because they are not on the banned list? sounds crazy to me, these drugs could do anything or nothing or when combined with other unknown drugs could react adversely. They got punished for governance but this is more than governance issues. This is an unbelievablly reckless act that shows no regard for the players safety

I am staggered that the media has decided to go easy on the bombers (aside from Caro). I would expect nothing less than Hird sacked and banned, Board sacked and all players getting a minimum of 12 months

I would be happy to be corrected, but it was my understanding that the reverse was required ie only drugs approved for human use could be used, if approved, and by default all others were banned.

[beelzebub 22,762]

I would be happy to be corrected, but it was my understanding that the reverse was required ie only drugs approved for human use could be used, if approved, and by default all others were banned.

A very good point

[biggestred 4,436]

Dont forget asada have to prove they took the drug. Probably why theyve only gone after tb4 as it seems like something they can prove. They may have taken other stuff but if asada can do them for 1 of them whats the point in getting them for everything else

[beelzebub 22,762]

Dont forget asada have to prove they took the drug. Probably why theyve only gone after tb4 as it seems like something they can prove. They may have taken other stuff but if asada can do them for 1 of them whats the point in getting them for everything else

actually they dont

its about intent as much as anything

[biggestred 4,436]

actually they dont

its about intent as much as anything

True

But my point still stands.

Ping them for 1 thing and its not necessary to ping them for another

[Willmoy1947 3,874]

Does anyone know if there is a database kept at AFLHQ in relation to what listed substances are taken by all AFL Clubs Players

This would have been purely kept as a backup to peak Insuring bodies like Workcover and Insurance Organisations

I think the term is "just saying

[DubDee 22,109]

They didn't stand by Knights even when he wasn't a drug cheat!

I would be happy to be corrected, but it was my understanding that the reverse was required ie only drugs approved for human use could be used, if approved, and by default all others were banned.

when the ASADA report came out there was the list of drugs that were confirmed to have been taken or highly likely taken. the only banned one was TB4. from memory most of the others eg AOD, were unapproved for use. AOD was in phase 1 clinical trials for treating obesity. the odds of AOD getting through all trials and being approved would be less than 5%.

[daisycutter 28,728]

did y'all notice essendrug announced a 700+K profit for the year

citing increased memberships and sponsorship plus generous donations

also quoted big payouts by their insurance company indicating the insurance company must have given them a green light of sorts

we all know insurance companies are good at finding reasons to not pay.............hmmmm

[Sir Why You Little 35,359]

did y'all notice essendrug announced a 700+K profit for the year

citing increased memberships and sponsorship plus generous donations

also quoted big payouts by their insurance company indicating the insurance company must have given them a green light of sorts

we all know insurance companies are good at finding reasons to not pay.............hmmmm

Masonic Lodge donations.....

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

did y'all notice essendrug announced a 700+K profit for the year

citing increased memberships and sponsorship plus generous donations

also quoted big payouts by their insurance company indicating the insurance company must have given them a green light of sorts

we all know insurance companies are good at finding reasons to not pay.............hmmmm

And Port post a $2m loss.

I struggle to understand this funny old world sometimes.

[ManDee 7,101]

I work in the Pharma industry (yeah im a sell out) and can confirm the vial would not be an approved drug by the TGA. There are extremely tight regulations around registering drugs, submitted the package and labelling for approval etc.

What I find interesting is that there seems to be no consquences for Essendon taking all the other unapproved drugs (regardless of if they are banned). like AOD etc. So ASADA/AFL is basically saying it is cool to inject random drugs that have not been approved for use just because they are not on the banned list? sounds crazy to me, these drugs could do anything or nothing or when combined with other unknown drugs could react adversely. They got punished for governance but this is more than governance issues. This is an unbelievablly reckless act that shows no regard for the players safety

I am staggered that the media has decided to go easy on the bombers (aside from Caro). I would expect nothing less than Hird sacked and banned, Board sacked and all players getting a minimum of 12 months

Great, I had a veal pharma the other day and it was under cooked, who do I complain to?

[jnrmac 19,519]

Dont forget asada have to prove they took the drug. Probably why theyve only gone after tb4 as it seems like something they can prove. They may have taken other stuff but if asada can do them for 1 of them whats the point in getting them for everything else

They don't. Simple. You probably haven't read all of the 9790 posts but Wade Lees never took anything. Do a google search.

The onus of proof for WADA as reversed. Players have to prove they didn't take it if an infraction notice is served.

[Melbman2 226]

did y'all notice essendrug announced a 700+K profit for the year

citing increased memberships and sponsorship plus generous donations

also quoted big payouts by their insurance company indicating the insurance company must have given them a green light of sorts

we all know insurance companies are good at finding reasons to not pay.............hmmmm

Yep, i can't see how insurance would pay out on something that contravened regulations. Shareholders happy?

[beelzebub 22,762]

Yep, i can't see how insurance would pay out on something that contravened regulations. Shareholders happy?

isnt that what mal practice insurance is all about though...just saying

[M_9 1,829]

Could WJ or someone else with legal knowledge tell me the 'order' of avenues for appeal as regards ASADA v Players?

My understanding is that the first recourse is to appeal to the AFL Anti-doping Appeals Board. What happens after that? Federal Court and then CAS?

I know Mark French was acquitted after appealing to the CAS. Did he pass through other avenues?

[ManDee 7,101]

isnt that what mal practice insurance is all about though...just saying

I think I went to school with him, good old Mal, I saw him crash a motorbike into a cow once. Think he works for Lloyds.

[daisycutter 28,728]

from abnother thread

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2014-11-19/essendon-records-profit

What can I say

Crime pays!

and an interesting comment at the end about media reporting (esp about insurance). take that mw!

*The article by Michael Warner that appeared in the Herald Sun today contained a number of inaccuracies which we clarify below:

· The club reported a profit of $2.1 million in the previous year, not a $3.2m loss as reported. Excluding donation and grant income related to development of the True Value Solar Centre and the ASADA/AFL investigation related costs, the underlying profit result last year was $745,000 profit

· The reported payout figure to Dean Robinson is subject to confidentiality but the figure of $1m reported in the media is incorrect.

· Neither the Robinson payment or the Federal Court costs were covered by insurance.

· The clubs borrowings remain at $5m, the same level as 2013. The net borrowing position is $3.2m.

[beelzebub 22,762]

from abnother thread

http://www.essendonfc.com.au/news/2014-11-19/essendon-records-profit

What can I say

Crime pays!

and an interesting comment at the end about media reporting (esp about insurance). take that mw!

Not yet is doesnt. Far from out of the woods yet. They havent ( nor anyone else likely ) seen the likes of the lawsuits coming their way. It wont all be covered by insurance either

[monoccular 16,703]

Yep, i can't see how insurance would pay out on something that contravened regulations. Shareholders happy?

Most professional malpractice insurance would only pay for "accidents" and you would be thrown to the wolves if you ignored "normal practice" or deliberately contravened rules.

[beelzebub 22,762]

Most professional malpractice insurance would only pay for "accidents" and you would be thrown to the wolves if you ignored "normal practice" or deliberately contravened rules.

Not quite. medical Mal practice is there for just the basic f-ups !! accidental or negligent... doesnt matter thats why its there

I confess Im not au fait with the possible nature of professional insurances that EFC have but I wouldnt think it matters good bad or indifferent..Its an insurance