POST MATCH DISCUSSION

[PJ_12345 1,098]

Maybe what you are saying is right but I would not rush to offload them before seeing how they perform under a new coach [and with a full pre-season in the case of Grimes and Trengove]. If we offload all our list, [especially the above players who have the potential but are not playing to it], we will actually go backwards even faster, despite somehow bringing in a few midfielders to back Jones.

Silvia is a free agent - so lets put him aside for argument sake, but Watts has had 5 years including 2 coaches and 2 in-trim coaches to show us what he can do.

To be honest we don't actually need him. Our priority is our midfield and up forward next year it looks like we will have Dawes, Clark, Hogan, Howe, and followed by few small forwards (Kent and Byrnes).

Being realistic we would only get a second round pick (at best) for Watts. That's good enough for me.

[CBDees 3,162]

Haha... The private school boys are getting sooky and defensive... That's cute.

School is as irrelevant to the playing list as politics is irrelevant to football administrators yet it is useful as a 'red herring' when somebody has not got the intelligence to construct an argument!

[mjt 640]

Silvia is a free agent - so lets put him aside for argument sake, but Watts has had 5 years including 2 coaches and 2 in-trim coaches to show us what he can do.

To be honest we don't actually need him. Our priority is our midfield and up forward next year it looks like we will have Dawes, Clark, Hogan, Howe, and followed by few small forwards (Kent and Byrnes).

Being realistic we would only get a second round pick (at best) for Watts. That's good enough for me.

I agree, Jacks lack of courage and intensity spreads like cancer, it's amazing that a guy like Fitzy who this season is playing for his future is showing someone up that has more talent than himself, says it all really, I will be bitterly disappointed if Watts is on our list next year.

[DemonOX 8,540]

Did anyone really think we would win?

This is without a doubt the worst of the 7 painful seasons we have had to endure.

One thing is for sure what doesn't kill u makes u stronger.

On this logic we are going to be a very, very STRONG club." (Just hope it begins next season)

[Chook 14,560]

Did anyone really think we would win?

This is without a doubt the worst of the 7 painful seasons we have had to endure.

One thing is for sure what doesn't kill u makes u stronger.

On this logic we are going to be a very, very STRONG club." (Just hope it begins next season)

Actually, on that logic we're all gonna die real soon.

[beelzebub 22,225]

Did anyone really think we would win?

This is without a doubt the worst of the 7 painful seasons we have had to endure.

One thing is for sure what doesn't kill u makes u stronger.

On this logic we are going to be a very, very STRONG club." (Just hope it begins next season)

Win ? a dubious possibility at best.

Such a lackluster capitulation ......

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

I watched the game with the GWS Coterie group, and after the game chatted to several GWS assistant coaches and players.

Here's some of what they said (nothing particularly remarkable).

1. The Demons are a rabble.

2. Getting a coach that the players like/respect is absolutely key and it needs to happen soon - otherwise we're facing a mass player exodus.

3. I reckon GWS are going to have a red hot crack at Frawley next year - they need another key defender, and they reckon Frawley's a gun. Many seemed to think he's our best player.

4. They really rate Scully and reckon he'll dominate next year. Scully thought the MFC was about the most amateur organisation in the country - left for more reasons than just $$$.

5. They thought Toumpas was an absolute bargain at pick 4. They very nearly took him at pick 2. I asked if we stuffed up not picking Wines instead of Toumpas. They said absolutely not - Toumpas will be a bloody good player. Just needs time.

6. Watts may very well go to Carlton. One coach commented that he's talented, but lazy - and he reckoned Watts for Yarran would be a good trade for us. Thought Yarran was a bit lazy too though.

7. Reckons Sylvia will stay, principally due to his age - he's more valuable to the MFC than most other clubs. Rated him our most dangerous player and they were very happy about the way in which they shut him down yesterday. In fact, all were saying Sylvia only jagged 12 possessions - they kept saying it. He is one of the very few mids they rate on our list. One coach liked Matt Jones and they all rate Nathan Jones.

8. They think Trengove and Grimes are solid players, but suggested that they have too much pressure on their shoulders for their age/experience.

9. The AFL is committed to the Demons. Some rumours that Roos will be offered about $2M a year to take the job. He wants to see the MFC get the board structured appropriately before entertaining things any further. Probably doesn't want the job, but the AFL is determined to get him to do it.

10. If this doesn't happen, I think we should throw sheep stations at Choco Williams and Junior McDonald. They rate both of them highly - in fact, the players reckon of all the GWS assistant coaches, Junior is most likely to be a really good head coach. I simply cannot believe how we handled Junior McDonald at the end of his career at the MFC - a total fiasco IMO.

11. Hogan will be a star.

12. Sheedy is probably the most charismatic man in football. Real tragedy we didn't take him in 2007.

That's about it.

[P-man 13,224]

I watched the game with the GWS Coterie group, and after the game chatted to several GWS assistant coaches and players.

Here's some of what they said (nothing particularly remarkable).

1. The Demons are a rabble.

2. Getting a coach that the players like/respect is absolutely key and it needs to happen soon - otherwise we're facing a mass player exodus.

3. I reckon GWS are going to have a red hot crack at Frawley next year - they need another key defender, and they reckon Frawley's a gun. Many seemed to think he's our best player.

4. They really rate Scully and reckon he'll dominate next year. Scully thought the MFC was about the most amateur organisation in the country - left for more reasons than just $$$.

5. They thought Toumpas was an absolute bargain at pick 4. They very nearly took him at pick 2. I asked if we stuffed up not picking Wines instead of Toumpas. They said absolutely not - Toumpas will be a bloody good player. Just needs time.

6. Watts may very well go to Carlton. One coach commented that he's talented, but lazy - and he reckoned Watts for Yarran would be a good trade for us. Thought Yarran was a bit lazy too though.

7. Reckons Sylvia will stay, principally due to his age - he's more valuable to the MFC than most other clubs. Rated him our most dangerous player and they were very happy about the way in which they shut him down yesterday. In fact, all were saying Sylvia only jagged 12 possessions - they kept saying it. He is one of the very few mids they rate on our list. One coach liked Matt Jones and they all rate Nathan Jones.

8. They think Trengove and Grimes are solid players, but suggested that they have too much pressure on their shoulders for their age/experience.

9. The AFL is committed to the Demons. Some rumours that Roos will be offered about $2M a year to take the job. He wants to see the MFC get the board structured appropriately before entertaining things any further. Probably doesn't want the job, but the AFL is determined to get him to do it.

10. If this doesn't happen, I think we should throw sheep stations at Choco Williams and Junior McDonald. They rate both of them highly - in fact, the players reckon of all the GWS assistant coaches, Junior is most likely to be a really good head coach. I simply cannot believe how we handled Junior McDonald at the end of his career at the MFC - a total fiasco IMO.

11. Hogan will be a star.

12. Sheedy is probably the most charismatic man in football. Real tragedy we didn't take him in 2007.

That's about it.

Alot of that is fair enough, but geeze they're up and about for a club that just notched up its first win of the season. It becomes alot easier to give someone a whack after you've beaten them, although perhaps you were talking to some 19 year olds who just felt like looking down on another club, for once. Worth noting this is the same mob we kicked 12 goals against in a quarter. But for now they can enjoy their win.

It's also no tragedy we didn't get Sheedy. His role at GWS seems to be that of a spruiker rather than a senior coach, and they're still playing in empty stadiums with no-one giving two hoots about them. Maybe he could've done a better job than Bailey, but I personally don't chalk it up as one of the club's failings, of which there are many.

[jnrmac 19,047]

To name a few, Davey, Blease, Sylvia, Dunn, Howe (great trade option), McKenzie, Grimes, Watts. Byrnes, Pederson, Rodan

Why stop there?

Of this you mentioned only Howe and Grimes are worth persevering with.

[jnrmac 19,047]

How were we ever going to win this one? It reminded me of Neelds first game for us against Brisbane where there was no way we could win just kicking it high up along thenboundary line. I watched today's game on TV and all we did in the firt half was pick the ball up and kick it long into the forward line. No system, no thinking, no skill, no running. I mean where is the game plan. We could never win this one with Craig's plan. I am thinking Neil Craig may be as much of the problem as Neeld ever was. The two of them together were probably toxic.

It seems to have been lost on all of the toxic crap surrounding Neeld but Craig was there overseeing him.

If Neeld failed then Craig failed. Pretty simple.

[jnrmac 19,047]

Years or drafting skinny vanilla kids instead of a few mongrel dogs like Darling, sloane, wines, martin.... Too many pretty boys with private school education who expect it all to land at their feet after being drafted. F**k you Melbourne... Let our best 5 players go to good clubs at years end... Do them a favour!

How you going with that big chip on your shoulders? Weighing you down?

By the way Jobe Watson, Luke Ball, Dan Hanneberry jst to name a few all say hi.....

[mjt 640]

Why stop there?

Of this you mentioned only Howe and Grimes are worth persevering with.

Grimes is one of the worst players we've ever had on our list, he's kicking isn't even VFL standard,Magners a better option than Grimes.

[Carrot Top 947]

Grimes is one of the worst players we've ever had on our list.

Ever? Wow. 150 plus years and he makes the dud team of the century and a bit?

Interesting.

[Ted Lasso 16,821]

I know Grimes hasn't been great the last few rounds but the way he started the year was fantastic, on par with Nathan jones for the bluey imo, might be worth watching the replays to restore some faith that he is okay?

[P-man 13,224]

Grimes is very ordinary. We're going nowhere with he and Trengove leading them out. Jones must be made captain next year and I'm hoping that is one of the first actions of the new coach.

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,244]

Was it just me or did everyone's favourite whipping boy Pederson actually play well yesterday?

[Chook 14,560]

I know Grimes hasn't been great the last few rounds but the way he started the year was fantastic, on par with Nathan jones for the bluey imo, might be worth watching the replays to restore some faith that he is okay?

Yep. People forget he was awesome until that Carlton game.

[Chook 14,560]

Was it just me or did everyone's favourite whipping boy Pederson actually play well yesterday?

Yes, it was just you.

[Ted Lasso 16,821]

Was it just me or did everyone's favourite whipping boy Pederson actually play well yesterday?

He certainly did, still of the opinion he is on the fringe between VFL and AFL level but there is something to work with there.

[DeeZee 6,758]

I dont care who we trade or keep anymore, i have made a decision to detach myself from any player.

I only want long term on field success, new coach can trade anyone he likes,to build the team he needs to get the job done.

[DeeSpencer 23,188]

Pedersen let Giles pick the ball off the deck and turn round and snap a goal. Plus he got another one on him. Although offensively Pedersen was pretty good and got a nice goal. All in all it was an ok game but he's still just depth and you have to question the use of having or playing depth players when you are as bad as we are.

[DeeVoted 582]

I just viewed the replay this morning (GWS) put my emotions to one side having decided to leave it for the day after.

2 teams on about par with talent and form. (to honest, IF we played at our peak we have them covered, or should have, ( with a few injuires no Frawley or Clark two we need playing and firing), we still should have won.

Then I factored in our last few weeks, Geelong (in the wet) then Darwin, back to Melb, then to the Gold Coast.

Thats a pretty tough ask for any team let alone a young team playing without any self believe,(and a lack of onballers (run))

I also fail to see any benefit training in up north,apart from a break away from the normal routine.

Some points to take into account, some want to slash 3/4 off the list, or wipe it totally and start again. It wont help.

Perhaps 6 - 8 senior players off the list next year, and keep turning them over.

I am not about to analyse every player and write up a report on each . Some of the standouts for me that have to eradicated next year.

2nd and 3rd efforts are lacking, too many players stand off after they have made a contest, they then stand back and ball watch,nowhere near an opposition opponent,thus leaving one or two of their players free space to break. I'm not sure if they think I'll just done my bit I need a breather.So I'll have a spell and let someone else have a go. *Watts does this and has a lot of mates*

You get your breather when the ball has cleared the area, then you man up. you dont just stand there alone.

Right there is a lack of putting pressure on. A player should not have to be told to man up when the ball is in dispute or when we havent got it.Thats just lazy dumb football, We know our fitness isnt up to srcatch, but the lack of effort at times is appalling. Back to the draw. perhaps because of our last few games, its taken a toll during this game?. (an excuse).We do run, we run to chase when its too late. We rarely run to create options,its left to one or two.Its been this way for the last 10 yrs, we refuse to man up,stand toe to toe and leave it for someone else.

I rarely seen any attempt to shield a player who just received a handball, to relieve pressure and give him an extra second or two to dispose the ball.Therefore most times they are rushed into giving off the ball and not to someone running or a chance to nail a pass up the field. They put more pressure on themselves by not blocking, they just expect it to work out in their favour.

Its not rocket science, win the ball, give it to someone in a better position, then shepard protect the player, then run off to back him up. if that doesnt work outman up. The idea of a handball is to create space and run. then its a weapon. Firing off in panic never works.

Where's the solid bump to put off a chasing opponent,and give our player more space? Again, no thinking or consideration. they'll give off a handball then run ahead, in the meantime, the player we gave it too, has just been pressured into making a mistake.so him running ahead is a waste of effort.Then he stops, turns around only to see the opposition clear the ball. They are pre-emptiving something that didnt work out.We continuously get caught out on a turnover. Then the backline is under the pump.

Jones is by far our best player, but even he,makes stupid descisions at times, gives off a handball to a player flatfooted or surrounded by opposition,rather than thump it long. (I'll cut him some slack,we need 20 more of him).Toumpas was a perfect example of forward thinking (inexperienced) the 2nd qtr he took off bounced 3 times, then run himself into a deadend got tackled and undid all his good work. He should have handballed to a player running near him, he was in the clear. He will learn from that I hope. It should have been a one two, after drawing an opponent ,or he handballed, to the other player , then has a chance to pass to a leading foward.

All this adds up to we dont think ahead, compounded by down on confidence, fumbling,wrong options,and add in the Neeld factor, now not sure where to run too, what to do, I thought the endenvour was there for most part, off the ball work ethic is woeful.

Another tough pre-season coming up, more running, we need speed off the mark, and work work work on skills.

A few players yesterday didnt give enough effort, yes Col, looking at you (again) always the onlooker or receiver, you really needed to be throwing your weight around in the packs to make space. then run off to create an option. Got nothing from an experienced player.Howe was another I expect more from, didnt do enough. All players put in for 10 mins then go missing. With a couple of exceptions.If they all have the same determination as Jones, we wouldnt be where we are,

All the above are little things that can be worked on and improved. Its a mind set for some, others try but they need to have a good look at themselves If they play as a team and do the team things we can win some games. But if we continue this crap with this list not improving,Its a long long road. The new coach has a bit of work ahead of him.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Was it just me or did everyone's favourite whipping boy Pederson actually play well yesterday?

He was OK until he had to use the ball and he's still fat.

[Nasher 33,068]

Grimes is one of the worst players we've ever had on our list, he's kicking isn't even VFL standard,Magners a better option than Grimes.

Hah, you might give yourself a bit more credibility if you didn't resort to wild hyperbole. He isn't even amongst the worst that took to the field yesterday. There are some seriously pox players in our side at present.

[P-man 13,224]

Whilst I think there are big question marks over Grimes, especially his kicking which continues to be an issue, the "Melbourne effect" can't be underestimated. Dylan Grimes is very highly rated at Tigerland, one of the first selected in the backline when fit, and he's supposedly the lesser Grimes brother.