Carlton

[jnrmac 20,309]

So why don't Carlton get pressure for bad list management and bad player development??

I can't be bothered doing the numbers but they said on the broadcast last night that they have a huge number of first round picks including 6 in the top 3 or 5...

[daisycutter 29,919]

Ahhhhh, I love the smell of carlscum blood in the morning................

[DemonFrog 1,359]

So why don't Carlton get pressure for bad list management and bad player development??

I can't be bothered doing the numbers but they said on the broadcast last night that they have a huge number of first round picks including 6 in the top 3 or 5...

If you where draft to play for Carlton would you have any reason to play hard besides the pay cheque?

IMO their team is going really well, keep up the good work and keep losing.

[dees189227 12,460]

Try living with a brother who is a Carlton supporter. Thank god the storm game was on live last night.

But I heard Greg Swan on the radio last night and he was talking about how they need good tall forwards. I sat there thinking about our great forward line next year. Hogan, Dawes, Clarke, Watts and Howe.

[Bring Back Barassi 552]

Two things about this threat:

1. Swearing is against the code of conduct in the Demonland forum so please never use that word Carlton again (it just that I get so upset just hearing the name), and
2. If they need a coach that can achieve the thing I would like that Club to achieve, then the should recruit Mark Neeld as I hear he is avaiable.

Yep, hate em

[Generation dee 1,336]

No it's not, I appreciate that Sydney and Geelong have done a great job with their lists but they have both taken advantage of AFL assistance through cash or rules at the time. The extra cap has helped Sydney and there is no way known they would have picked up Tippett for example and it allowed them to get Mumford in the past.

Geelong had the good luck to get father son picks cheaply under the previous rule, Ablett, Scarlett and Hawkins have helped. As posted above they also get a huge leg up with Cardinia Park.

Of course Collingwood and Hawthorn have taken advantage of PP's and there was a little manipulation (not tanking of course) to get them.

I don't get what your argument is? I said Sydney Geelong hawthorn and collingwood have the "brand wide" structures in place to enable the club to be strong. From the CEO, president and coach, development and recruitment departments as well as footy department structuring,, to the players knowing what was expected of them from November when they walk in to the club in their first year, til they are 30 odd and retire. If you use the Shane Mumford trade as an example of their salary cap concession, then I suggest you look again. That season they offloaded Darren jolly to collingwood and Amon Buchanan to Brisbane.

Now, before comparing Brisbane (and ultimately Melbourne 2012) trading in established players, opposed to Sydney trading in established players, and the personalities of players traded, do you not think that a club with leadership at board level and everyone on an understanding of what is needed to succeed is more important? Yes Geelong had some luck with father sons, but with the Geelong brand and all those in charge looking to improve and grow the club, do you not think that added to the reasoning behind bartel, Kelly, Johnson and chapman becoming genuine A-graders as opposed to average footballers? What about when Mitch Duncan, Christensen or motlop step out as new players?

You can change bartel, etc to Heath shaw, swan, beams or Mitchell, birchal, Lewis, Sewell.

[beelzebub 23,390]

Elton had it all worked out lol

[Bobby McKenzie 2,407]

As has been mentioned here many times, Watts and Gibbs are very similar number one picks.

Nothing soft about Watts with his game winning and game saving efforts against the Dogs. Think about it Clint, could ANYONE who plays AFL football be really so called 'soft'? It's a tough,tough game.

[rjay 25,357]

I don't get what your argument is? I said Sydney Geelong hawthorn and collingwood have the "brand wide" structures in place to enable the club to be strong. From the CEO, president and coach, development and recruitment departments as well as footy department structuring,, to the players knowing what was expected of them from November when they walk in to the club in their first year, til they are 30 odd and retire. If you use the Shane Mumford trade as an example of their salary cap concession, then I suggest you look again. That season they offloaded Darren jolly to collingwood and Amon Buchanan to Brisbane.

Now, before comparing Brisbane (and ultimately Melbourne 2012) trading in established players, opposed to Sydney trading in established players, and the personalities of players traded, do you not think that a club with leadership at board level and everyone on an understanding of what is needed to succeed is more important? Yes Geelong had some luck with father sons, but with the Geelong brand and all those in charge looking to improve and grow the club, do you not think that added to the reasoning behind bartel, Kelly, Johnson and chapman becoming genuine A-graders as opposed to average footballers? What about when Mitch Duncan, Christensen or motlop step out as new players?

You can change bartel, etc to Heath shaw, swan, beams or Mitchell, birchal, Lewis, Sewell.

I totally agree with you about having all the pieces in place and I think Geelong are the model to look at about how a club should operate, they had a bit of luck along the way however but were smart enough to maximise it

...but in your original post you implied that tanking by us and Carlton is the cause of some of our problems and I would agree to a point but also say the Collingwood and Hawthorn have gone down the same path but probably with there stronger structures they were able to do it better and not effect the culture of the club.

...anyway, time to watch the footy.

[dpositive 1,838]

Just shows- draft picks are useless and you need your whole club on the same page to have sustained success. By that, I mean you can't have tanking (melb, wce, carlton), you can't have supplements or injection program's (that will not last) and you can't have a team built on trades or top ups (st kilda, bulldogs) it just doesn't work. You need a club on the same page, from CEO, to marketing, development and recruitment built on trust, hard work, confidence and patience. Hawthorn Geelong, Sydney and collingwood. It's not the game plan that's necessary to follow, it's the "brand" wide development and protocol.

I think your on the right path there

Did Simon Gerrans tank ????? was that good for the team spirit of Orica???

[Hannibal 5,814]

could ANYONE who plays AFL football be really so called 'soft'?

Of course. There are degrees of everything.

Anyone who has ever played the game knows that some put their nose over it far more than others. No-one doubts that it takes courage to play AFL. The term "soft" is merely used to separate those that compromise their talent in certain aspects of the game with those that are able to control their fear and regularly engage in acts that others try and avoid.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,407]

Of course. There are degrees of everything.

Anyone who has ever played the game knows that some put their nose over it far more than others. No-one doubts that it takes courage to play AFL. The term "soft" is merely used to separate those that compromise their talent in certain aspects of the game with those that are able to control their fear and regularly engage in acts that others try and avoid.

Like common sense V stupidity?

[Demon trucker 1,800]

it is total rubbish that tanking is why the blues are not winning, it did not affect their ability to win three season ago when they were one win outside the top four, I think it has more to do with their lack of tall forwards, I don’t know why they did not go hard after dawies, which is good for us, one of the reasons they have a lack of depth, is they have paid too much for too few, Judd, murphy, Gibbs are on big coin.

[Dee1987 277]

I'm happy to see Carlton continuously fail bunch of cheats! Judd and Carrazzo are now wearing out, they have no key forwards, Hampson and Waite are always injured and Betts and Garlett are down hill skiers of Carltons forward line. Gibbs and Kruzer are the most overrated players in the comp. Jamieson is an honest defender , Yarran is good when he wants to be he has commitment issues.

Robbie Warnock has done complete JACK ALL, I can't believe he demanded big bucks just for him to play mostly in the 2s, so glad we didn't get him! Happy to see some karma hit the [censored] McLean and his arrogant mouth.

Even if Carlton got rid of a few players to get Dale Thomas it won't make too much of a difference to their line up or even up forward for that matter.

I still believe Malthouse is coaching to get back at Eddie rather than for the passion to coach the blues and if they fail to make the finals next year Malthouse won't get a contract extension

[Generation dee 1,336]

it is total rubbish that tanking is why the blues are not winning, it did not affect their ability to win three season ago when they were one win outside the top four, I think it has more to do with their lack of tall forwards, I don’t know why they did not go hard after dawies, which is good for us, one of the reasons they have a lack of depth, is they have paid too much for too few, Judd, murphy, Gibbs are on big coin.

You think that clubs that tank have mental toughness when things aren't going there way? You think a player with a 15-45 win loss record has the guys to dig that bit deeper when things are against him? Look at Carlton and name one player who goes hard week in week out and has done his whole career.

I'll tell you, the answer is no one. Why? Because players get "used" to losing, honourable losses, and being close. Judd aside, they don't fight.

And the season Carlton finished 5th the leading goal scorers were betts, garlett and walker. Sorry which of them missed last night??

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

Brett Ratten says hi

[Demon trucker 1,800]

You think that clubs that tank have mental toughness when things aren't going there way? You think a player with a 15-45 win loss record has the guys to dig that bit deeper when things are against him? Look at Carlton and name one player who goes hard week in week out and has done his whole career.

I'll tell you, the answer is no one. Why? Because players get "used" to losing, honourable losses, and being close. Judd aside, they don't fight.

And the season Carlton finished 5th the leading goal scorers were betts, garlett and walker. Sorry which of them missed last night??

That’s not because of tanking, they made the finals a few times before the last season, judd is such a great player that he carried the side, but in the last two seasons he is not the player he use to be, if you look at all of the premierships since 2007 to last year all of those teams hard power tall forwards, Geelong had Mooney, pods, Hawkins, in there premiership seasons, the hawks have buddy, roughhead, Collingwood had dawies cloke, the only team that did not is Sydney,

[Redleg 42,052]

So why don't Carlton get pressure for bad list management and bad player development??

Because they aren't being considered for a PP.

[rjay 25,357]

You think that clubs that tank have mental toughness when things aren't going there way? You think a player with a 15-45 win loss record has the guys to dig that bit deeper when things are against him? Look at Carlton and name one player who goes hard week in week out and has done his whole career.

I'll tell you, the answer is no one. Why? Because players get "used" to losing, honourable losses, and being close. Judd aside, they don't fight.

And the season Carlton finished 5th the leading goal scorers were betts, garlett and walker. Sorry which of them missed last night??

It hasn't stopped Collingwood or Hawthorn, both are clubs that put the cue in the rack to get PP's.

A lot of Carlton's problems relate back to things other than tanking. Internal conflict at the club, having to pay big money to buy in a captain who gave great on field leadership but not next to nothing off field. Losing draft picks left a big hole in their list as it has in ours.

[Generation dee 1,336]

It hasn't stopped Collingwood or Hawthorn, both are clubs that put the cue in the rack to get PP's.

A lot of Carlton's problems relate back to things other than tanking. Internal conflict at the club, having to pay big money to buy in a captain who gave great on field leadership but not next to nothing off field. Losing draft picks left a big hole in their list as it has in ours.

Which exactly confirms the point I made earlier to you in this thread.

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

They got hammered on SEN this morning. Their list is in huge trouble.

Great.

[mjt 640]

They got hammered on SEN this morning. Their list is in huge trouble.

Great.

Sounds familiar, who rattled your pram?

[Generation dee 1,336]

That’s not because of tanking, they made the finals a few times before the last season, judd is such a great player that he carried the side, but in the last two seasons he is not the player he use to be, if you look at all of the premierships since 2007 to last year all of those teams hard power tall forwards, Geelong had Mooney, pods, Hawkins, in there premiership seasons, the hawks have buddy, roughhead, Collingwood had dawies cloke, the only team that did not is Sydney,

But meth coast and Sydney did in 05 and 06. They are in huge trouble Carlton, they are downhill skiers of the highest order and don't have anyone who stands up when needed, or even a "group mentality" of pack tackling or hunting in numbers. They were solid against hawthorn, but hawthorn were also a bit off that night. Judd has carried them I agree, I hope his legacy isn't tarnished from his brain fade suspensions or Carlton not taking the next step, as he has been a true great.

For mine, Carlton are further off a premiership than us with our current lists. That said, if they chased a Sam Reid, a robbie tarrant or a state league podsiadly, it could improve them, but they are soft and don't attack contested footy anywhere near hard enough to be a premiership contender at present.

[Sir Why You Little 37,342]

Sounds familiar, who rattled your pram?

What??

[mjt 640]

But meth coast and Sydney did in 05 and 06. They are in huge trouble Carlton, they are downhill skiers of the highest order and don't have anyone who stands up when needed, or even a "group mentality" of pack tackling or hunting in numbers. They were solid against hawthorn, but hawthorn were also a bit off that night. Judd has carried them I agree, I hope his legacy isn't tarnished from his brain fade suspensions or Carlton not taking the next step, as he has been a true great.

For mine, Carlton are further off a premiership than us with our current lists. That said, if they chased a Sam Reid, a robbie tarrant or a state league podsiadly, it could improve them, but they are soft and don't attack contested footy anywhere near hard enough to be a premiership contender at present.

No ones further off a flag than US, it amazes me that people can't deal with that.