Carlton

[PartyTimeJohnny 533]

Carlton have been developing a side of great potential for a number of years.

At the Twilight of 2012 the greater powers of the Blues made the call that their Coach who's exceptional work developing a list had become redundant with a greater need for a strategic-minded, Grand Final-winning Coach. So they got that Collingwood guy, Mick.

To many it looked like a perfect transition for both Carlton and Mick; Brett Ratten had taken his stellar list as far as he could and now it was time for a man with more ideal skills to step in and take this Carlton team into their final Act.

Upon Mick's arrival he found himself all but satisfied with this hyped-up list of Blues. He resigned himself and Carlton to the fact that there were some substantial gaping holes in this list. He has confronted some players and their approach to standards, played some out of their usual position, and there is talk of substantial change to a list that once held such promise.

Sound familiar?

[ThreeOneSix 953]

Carlton have been developing a side of great potential for a number of years.

At the Twilight of 2012 the greater powers of the Blues made the call that their Coach who's exceptional work developing a list had become redundant with a greater need for a strategic-minded, Grand Final-winning Coach. So they got that Collingwood guy, Mick.

To many it looked like a perfect transition for both Carlton and Mick; Brett Ratten had taken his stellar list as far as he could and now it was time for a man with more ideal skills to step in and take this Carlton team into their final Act.

Upon Mick's arrival he found himself all but satisfied with this hyped-up list of Blues. He resigned himself and Carlton to the fact that there were some substantial gaping holes in this list. He has confronted some players and their approach to standards, played some out of their usual position, and there is talk of substantial change to a list that once held such promise.

Sound familiar?

The shape of Carltons list is irrelevant in this instance.

What Carlton needed was a culture coach in the mould of Roos, Thompson, Hinkley or a Longmire.

Carlton got Malthouse, who is far from a culture builder. Carlton needed a culture builder as they tanked and that is firmly ingrained within that team.

Until Carlton strip themselves back and bare their souls, they will just be thereabouts.

[whatwhat say what 20,413]

I don't understand why Kruezer doesn't cop the attention that Watts does.

[DeeSpencer 23,686]

The shape of Carltons list is irrelevant in this instance.

What Carlton needed was a culture coach in the mould of Roos, Thompson, Hinkley or a Longmire.

Carlton got Malthouse, who is far from a culture builder. Carlton needed a culture builder as they tanked and that is firmly ingrained within that team.

Until Carlton strip themselves back and bare their souls, they will just be thereabouts.

Really? So Malthouse didn't take a dysfunctional Collingwood side to consecutive grand finals and then rebuild whilst staying very successful (and tanking half a season as well) then build a premiership side?

I think you are fooled by what Mick says publicly about his players and the standards he sets for them in performance ON field. He might not make them into saints off the field and no doubt the pies rat pack were up to trouble off the field but they trained hard and performed and won him a flag.

One thing I'd say to the OP is that Mick is always a players coach. His players play for him and they do it because he always treats them with respect in the media. His tirade at the umpires after the Hawthorn game was largely about deflection from some under performing players. That's much different to Neeld.

Malthouse isn't some magically genius who can fix everything overnight but I'm not convinced any AFL coach can.

Carlton's list undoubtedly has issues. It's short on quality defenders to fill a back six and therefore Mick's sent Simpson and Walker back there. The two big blokes in Henderson and Jamieson are ok and Scotland and Touhy do the job but they lack at least 2 decent defenders. The midfield lacks depth after Judd, McLean and Murphy any injuries (Carrazo etc) start to hurt. The forward line is a real worry as well. Waite can't be trusted and after that they are developing key forwards who are vital for Malthouse's long kicking game plan. 2 into 3 with Garlett, Betts and Yarran doesn't work because they just can't do their turn into the midfield.

Remember through all this their biggest losing margin is under 3 goals. I'm pretty sure Ross Lyon had Freo at the same stage last year before a good finish to the year. It takes a while for a coach to teach and find guys who can play the way they want.

[DeeSpencer 23,686]

I don't understand why Kruezer doesn't cop the attention that Watts does.

Really we all wish that statement was I don't understand why Watts doesn't escape the attention they way Kreuzer does. But I agree.

I think the main difference is that Kreuzer has dominated games and has played games where he looks like a star - taking strong grabs, kicking goals, winning hit outs and (the reason he went pick 1 not pick 20) the ability to get involved in play at ground level and play like an extra mid.

But there are plenty of games where Kreuzer looks on par with McEvoy or no better than a Jamar or any other mid level ruck. His dropped marks are killing him at the moment and he's performing the cardinal sin for a ruckman which is not looking strong and hard. Big Jake Spencer showed last week if you do the hard and tough stuff as a ruckman the rest doesn't matter. He probably played the worst 40 hit out 16 disposal game possible tonight. I suppose one difference with Watts is at least Kruezer has cemented himself as a best 22 reasonable player even if he's a long way from a star. You can't say the same with Watts.

[DemonFrog 1,347]

Two things about this threat:

1. Swearing is against the code of conduct in the Demonland forum so please never use that word Carlton again (it just that I get so upset just hearing the name), and
2. If they need a coach that can achieve the thing I would like that Club to achieve, then the should recruit Mark Neeld as I hear he is avaiable.

[Waltham33 423]

I don't understand why Kruezer doesn't cop the attention that Watts does.

Or Gibbs who is basically hidden out there

[jnrmac 19,508]

Kruezer Gibbs and Patton have escaped scrutiny as number 1 picks.

But he biggest Houdini of all is $cully. He has done nothing and is one of the top 2 paid players in the AFL. Not even a whisper about how ineffective he is and what a waste of a number 1 pick he is. Imagine if he was still at Melbourne. No wonder he left!

The treatment of Watts is because he is at Melbourne. We are second class citizens. The rest don't give a stuff about us. The AFL treat us badly in every scenario from Tribunal, to Mifsud, to tanking - you name it. Unless you are a favoured Sun like Hird you get shafted.

Edited June 28, 2013 by jnrmac

[rufus 956]

I agree with questioning why Gibbs and Kruezer don't get the attention that Watts does. According to Hobert Falls, Gibbs is the 10th best number 1 draft pick of all time. Hahahaha barrack for Carlton much? Odd article to write anyway but I guess I did bother to read it. I justify Kruezer escaping because he seems to attack the ball and contests at 100% most of the time. Gibbs however...

It's off topic, but In terms of comparing Carlton to Melbourne, for me the biggest difference is the attitude of the players. Whilst we have made some poor decisions regarding our coaches, I have never really had the sense the players are consistently giving 100% for the club. Some will say this ridiculous to say of an AFL player, but giving 100% covers all aspects of the game, from their training, to their preparation, their seeking out ways to improve, to their commitment to playing 'two way footy' on the weekend. It's the most extraordinary aspect of our club. We have turned our list over multiple times to try and rid ourselves of these attitudes, but seem to have found ourselves in exactly the same place again and again.

I'm trying very hard to find a reason for optimism at the moment. The first bounce of last weeks' match vs. the Saints basically killed off the little peak I had built up from the change of coach. I couldn't believe I was sitting there watching a group of blokes go at about 50% whilst their opponents stormed in for the ball and managed to kick a goal within about 30 seconds like a Thursday arvo training drill. What do these guys need to happen for them to be fierce in their attack on the ball and the opponent from start to finish? It really seems to have gotten to the point where the media pointing the finger at some of their soft efforts doesn't even get them out of their malaise anymore.

Carlton will be ok because the majority of Carlton players are committed to the cause. I believe Malthouse is more of a long term coach in terms of ingraining his styles, so perhaps not the answer they needed if they believed their window was in the next couple of years. But hey, I would take what I am seeing from the Blues each week over what out lot are serving up.

[pitmaster 3,157]

The treatment of Watts is because he is at Melbourne. We are second class citizens. The rest don't give a stuff about us. The AFL treat us badly in every scenario from Tribunal, to Mifsud, to tanking - you name it.

This is so right jnr that I must endorse your remarks, and in the context of another thread add that our second class status extends to us being assigned more than our share of novice umpires.

[DemonFrog 1,347]

Kruezer Gibbs and Patton have escaped scrutiny as number 1 picks.

But he biggest Houdini of all is $cully. He has done nothing and is one of the top 2 paid players in the AFL. Not even a whisper about how ineffective he is and what a waste of a number 1 pick he is. Imagine if he was still at Melbourne. No wonder he left!

The treatment of Watts is because he is at Melbourne. We are second class citizens. The rest don't give a stuff about us. The AFL treat us badly in every scenario from Tribunal, to Mifsud, to tanking - you name it. Unless you are a favoured Sun like Hird you get shafted.

I must be getting old as Ross's Father was one of my favourite players back in 82.

As a MFC supporter we all will be use to pain and suffering and no one is able to do more damage to the MFC then its own staff, board, members and supporters.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Sound familiar?

No.

[Redleg 38,584]

Two things about this threat:

• Swearing is against the code of conduct in the Demonland forum so please never use that word Carlton again (it just that I get so upset just hearing the name), and
• If they need a coach that can achieve the thing I would like that Club to achieve, then the should recruit Mark Neeld as I hear he is avaiable.

Agree.

[baysidedave 246]

I don't understand why Kruezer doesn't cop the attention that Watts does.

my sentiments exactly, Kruezer isn't as good as Watts, been around longer and was a hyped-up no. 1 pick but no, lets all stick the boots into Jack................. tossers

[Redleg 38,584]

A lot of the inaccuracies that get put out by the media, remain so, because no one corrects them. A strong leader who comes out and corrects the facts, usually puts an end to the stories.

We have failed dismally in that regard.

[[email protected] 101]

Carlton have been developing a side of great potential for a number of years.

At the Twilight of 2012 the greater powers of the Blues made the call that their Coach who's exceptional work developing a list had become redundant with a greater need for a strategic-minded, Grand Final-winning Coach. So they got that Collingwood guy, Mick.

To many it looked like a perfect transition for both Carlton and Mick; Brett Ratten had taken his stellar list as far as he could and now it was time for a man with more ideal skills to step in and take this Carlton team into their final Act.

Upon Mick's arrival he found himself all but satisfied with this hyped-up list of Blues. He resigned himself and Carlton to the fact that there were some substantial gaping holes in this list. He has confronted some players and their approach to standards, played some out of their usual position, and there is talk of substantial change to a list that once held such promise.

Sound familiar?

Doesn't matter how good the Coach is... Still need the cattle and proper attitudes...

[Little Richard 5,943]

my sentiments exactly, Kruezer isn't as good as Watts, been around longer and was a hyped-up no. 1 pick but no, lets all stick the boots into Jack................. tossers

Hold on, Kreuzer has had some pretty good seasons and he did do his ACL, missing 12 months of footy. He is definitely a better player than Watts.

I agree that all these number one picks have been less than stellar and have not copped what Watts has however as much as I hate to admit it, Watts has been the worst of all of them (except Scully). That's not to say at all that I think he won't be a good player.

For those bagging Gibbs, get real.

He has played very well in quite a few seasons. 2009 (third season) he had 615 disposals and polled 15 brownlow votes. 560 and 548 disposals in 10/11 and lost his way a bit last season (still managed a measly 481). He has done very well recently so he is far from a muffed pick number one.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Django

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

I don't understand why Kruezer doesn't cop the attention that Watts does.

Totally, Watts has done more than Kruezer but there's something about Watts' laconic demeanour that get's under the skin of traditionalists. Kruezer is definitely overrated but he gives the impression he's cracking in, unlike Watts. I see a role for Watts regardless of whether he lifts his intensity or not. His skills below his knees are sublime and he kicks the ball well. His ability to shrug multiple tackles in recent weeks has also been good to see.

[jnrmac 19,508]

So Carlton...How's it going wit that million dollar coach? How's that working for ya??

there are no messiahs

[DemonFrog 1,347]

So Carlton...How's it going wit that million dollar coach? How's that working for ya??

there are no messiahs

You make alot of good points but in this case I am sad to say you are wrong.

PETER JACKSON (Messiah of the year)

[PartyTimeJohnny 533]

No.

I see a few similarities between the Mark Neelds time at Melbourne and Mick Malthouse's first 8 months with Carlton.

Funny you didn't notice that

[DemonFrog 1,347]

I see a few similarities between the Mark Neelds time at Melbourne and Mick Malthouse's first 8 months with Carlton.

Funny you didn't notice that

Carlton has won 6 games this season

Mark Neeld won 5 games in 18 months

[PartyTimeJohnny 533]

Carlton has won 6 games this season

Mark Neeld won 5 games in 18 months

Yep thats definitely a difference

[Tony Tea 2,792]

Or Gibbs who is basically hidden out there

Last Friday night against Hawthorn Gibbs basically s!@t himself twice. Once with a Hawthorn player running towards him and Gibbs took a big sidestep to get out of the way and avoid the contact. And then again when the game was on the line in the last quarter and Gibbs felt the pressure and fumbled a soft one-hand pick up. Do you think we have heard about it? If it was Watts it would have been replayed all week on OTC, FC, FI and 360.

[jumbo returns 6,619]

I see a few similarities between the Mark Neelds time at Melbourne and Mick Malthouse's first 8 months with Carlton.

Funny you didn't notice that

No surprise there.