POSTMATCH DISCUSSION - Round 11

[McQueen 17,864]

Just managed to watch the press conference, or should I call it the 'depress conference'.

Neeld clearly doesn't give a flying fig anymore.

Do me a favour Mark and just leave.

[beelzebub 23,376]

I went to the game - arriving half way through the first quarter.

I must have been at a different game to some of you.

I had two mates with me who have never watched the demons before, go for other teams and were totally impartial and they were both also convinced that the players were not putting in 100%. We all looked at Dawesy in the second quarter standing in the midfield with his arms folded glaring at players in the midfield and defense with a look that could kill and it wasn't a 'geees you guys are crap look - to me it was 'you bastards''.

My over-riding impression from today's performance and from the vibe I got from everyone around me was that the players weren't playing to save the coach. There was no gut running at any stage. There was no second efforts. if you watched certain players it was like they were hanging back off their opponent for some reason and then ambling in too late every time.

I swear the fastest the players ran was off the ground for an interchange. The girl with the water bottles seemed keener.

People on the train were telling me all sorts of interesting comments. MCC are worried about their connection with us according to one semi drunk guy. Board will walk said another. Collingwood supporters also agreed with my assessment that the players weren't trying 100% and pointed out their own examples.

Say what you will. Tell me this player or that has come good or is improving but I didn't see it at all today. There are obvious reasons in that we are thin already and have lost key players. But having a crack you would think would be important knowing there is speculation from the brother of the head honcho that Neeld is gawn if this game is a dee-saster...

not alone

[beelzebub 23,376]

Just managed to watch the press conference, or should I call it the 'depress conference'.

Neeld clearly doesn't give a flying fig anymore.

Do me a favour Mark and just leave.

bit of a pay me out if you dare....

do we

[Jaded No More 68,915]

This is what I've been saying for quite a while now. You can't blame the game plan or structures for massive losses when we see these sort of numbers week in week out. You can't defend a turnover because your entire team has run off their men to create attacking options. When the turnover happens they are all caught out of position, allowing an easy score. If we can eliminate this one glaring flaw from our games we will see far closer results, especially since it will also translate into more scoring opportunities for us.

As someone else said, he will be lucky to play this year, but nobody really knows.

A good coach plans for turnovers and ensures players know how and where to run when the ball is turned over.

Every team turns it over, no team is constantly caught flat footed.

Some idiot in front of me kept saying it's ok that we are not manning up because we turned it over.

Are you friggin kidding me? We should never play so loose that we are caught 3-4-5 out on the counter attack.

Neeld is frustrated yet does nothing to change our on field behavior from week to week.

Instead he bemoans our lack of experience (Collingwood had more 1st year players than us), our lack of strength through the middle (where is Magner?), our turnovers (why is Dunn getting a gig at the kick outs), and the fact that our older players aren't putting in.

Well Jones and Garland are our best every week, while the rest are your doing. You punished Jetta for his suspension, yet Sylvia waltzes back in. You signed Jamar for 3 years. You brought us Pederson and Gillies and Rodan.

Not everything is on you, but to take no responsibility makes you weak. And if you are gutless then you can't complain that your players are gutless too.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Jaded

[DeeSpencer 25,709]

It's funny how the players try until 3 consecutive goals get kicked and then it's all just meh who cares. Also the way they look completely spent after a couple of efforts tells me they aren't fit enough still.

[Stigga 25]

If we can eliminate this one glaring flaw from our games we will see far closer results, especially since it will also translate into more scoring opportunities for us.

That's the thing, it ain't going to happen...

[McQueen 17,864]

bit of a pay me out if you dare....

do we

And just listened to Grimesy's interview on SEN.

Neeld's brainwashed him.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Jumbo... surely you saw through the press conference...

I understand everything you have said regarding our plight...

But it can't go on... something has to give soon...

Agree...but it will happen on October.

There will be massive changes to the playing list.

If Neeld didn't give a stuff, Barry, Dawes, Clark, Hogan, Terlich, Jones, would not have been recruited.

[Stigga 25]

If Neeld didn't give a stuff, Barry, Dawes, Clark, Hogan, Terlich, Jones, would not have been recruited.

Sorry, don't understand what you are getting at here.

I just can't see how you can remain so passive after each heavy defeat....

Something has to give soon... (i.e ASAP)

[DemonFrog 1,354]

I final found a song that best explains MN attitude to his game plan.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Sorry, don't understand what you are getting at here.

I just can't see how you can remain so passive after each heavy defeat....

Something has to give soon... (i.e ASAP)

I'm not passive, I'm measured.

Having said that, I'm also seething that our experienced players fail to lead on the field.

I'm seething at our poor fitness levels.

I'm seething at our recruiting - the Prendegast high picks that went nowhere.

October will be my Grand Final.

[CBDees 3,167]

Watching the commentary on the AFL App from Berlin vindicates my decision to take eight weeks off in the midst of the footy season, something that l was apprehensive about at the onset of the year based on all the positive hype coming out of training. I will now enjoy the last five weeks of my trip content that l am not missing anything by being away from the "G"!

[Adam The God 30,259]

Positives for me:

* Watt's ability to fend off players and take them on without being out muscled. He still needs to lay some tackles though, but is getting there.

* Toumpas with ball in hand and laying a tackle or two.

* Garland's effort on Cloke. Absolutely terrific. Very unheralded.

* Was pretty happy with Rodan's stoppage work too.

That's about it. Nathan Jones had an absolute shocker. I'd hate to see his disposal efficiency.

[angrydee 842]

Positives for me:

* Watt's ability to fend off players and take them on without being out muscled. He still needs to lay some tackles though, but is getting there.

* Toumpas with ball in hand and laying a tackle or two.

* Garland's effort on Cloke. Absolutely terrific. Very unheralded.

* Was pretty happy with Rodan's stoppage work too.

That's about it. Nathan Jones had an absolute shocker. I'd hate to see his disposal efficiency.

70%

[Adam The God 30,259]

Interesting. Very surprising. He seemed to miss handball targets consistently and miss targets by foot too. 70% is decent though.

[angrydee 842]

Interesting. Very surprising. He seemed to miss handball targets consistently and miss targets by foot too. 70% is decent though.

with 30 disposals, it's still 9 bad ones

[Adam The God 30,259]

I guess it felt like nearly every time he touched it he turned it over. I suppose it goes to show all his in and under that you don't necessarily see.

[deanox 9,921]

I don't know the precise answer but it would be the vast majority of our scores against are scored by our turnovers. I'd also like to know if there is a publicly available stat on this. No doubt Champion Data records it but for some reason they refuse to release their stats publicly. I don't know why the media refuse to analyse the stats properly and make them available, probably because if they do make them available people will be able to see the utter ineptitude of their "analysis" over the past couple of decades.

1) Collingwood scored 13.11.89 directly from turnovers. This really supports the argument that we were ok when trying to win the ball but couldn't keep it. We only kicked 2 goals from turnovers. I think skill errors are often forced by actual and perceived pressure by the opposition; the reason why a team can look a million bucks against a poor team then get smashed by a good team. Increase fitness, experience and confidence are the only things that can fix this. They only way too improve all three is time.

2) champion data don't release the stats because those stats are their IP. They record hundreds of categories. The clubs have to pay big money to buy them, if they were released fir fee the company would go broke. Personally I think this should be done by the AFL and released for all.

3) newspapers buy the minimum stats we see and base analysis around that. Analysis is aimed at typical deadbeat and doesn't ever do real analysis. Half the time I don't think the authors are even at the game, stories are up so quickly after the matches the articles must be part written before the game. It would be great if they could get some ex coaches to do in depth analysis at a level they would do in club, to really explain what sort of planning and analysis may be applied.

[deanox 9,921]

...

Neeld's Footy University...

I though it was Bailey who started the idea of a footy university/school at the club? I haven't heard about this being attribute to Neeld...

I believe that players in the leadership group, and mayhaps some others are enrolled in a diploma of leadership or something like that, which is a new initiative under Neeld/Craig, but what I recall was that "the players are doing this sort of stuff anyway, so they got accreditation to award a qualification as part of the training" or something like that.

If be interested to see the articles or wherever you got your info from?

[deanox 9,921]

Interesting. Very surprising. He seemed to miss handball targets consistently and miss targets by foot too. 70% is decent though.

The problem with DE% is that it isn't "how many disposals retained possession". I think the definitions are that if the kick goes less than 30 m it needs to retain possession, but if it's longer than that it has to go to an "equal" contest ie 1 on 1 or 2 on 2 or better. Nothing says it has to be retained our that the disposal has to be kicked to advantage, a 30 m kick to the wrong side of a 1 on 1 counts as "effective", which is rubbish.

I'm not sure what they call handballs or kicks into space ie of ground our being tackled.

[bing181 9,237]

I just can't see how you can remain so passive after each heavy defeat....

Because it is what it is, and nothing will change in the short term - not on the field at least.

Not for nothing PJ signed on till the end of 2014. He probably figures it will take at least that long to even begin to get things on the straight and narrow.

[Johnny Jimbo 26]

Every week post game I read a 'I don't think I've ever seen a more pathetic performance than player X'!

[stueyspencer no12 73]

They were bigger, stronger and more experienced but we had a crack. Unfortunately, what worked in the first quarter failed after that. The loss of Dawes affected our forward structure and we simply lapsed into a frenzy of self-inflicted errors of which Collingwood took maximum advantage.

Once we eliminate the errors, these games will be 6 to 8 goal losses. Get a few of those injured blokes back and we won't be far away from winning games against our fellow cellar dwellers.

Well Jack we lost by 60 v Gold Coast so I wouldn't lay in the celebratory coke just yet in anticipation of a win v . Must say that both this week and last we were awful, one is really clutching at straws to think of positives. Remember how many outs the Pies have

[jnrmac 20,065]

Mark Neeld:

"I think the Pies have had 24 shots at goal as a direct result of us turning the footy over."

Now, I think Neeld should go but surely he is not responsible for these players butchering it??

[jnrmac 20,065]

I'm not passive, I'm measured.

Having said that, I'm also seething that our experienced players fail to lead on the field.

I'm seething at our poor fitness levels.

I'm seething at our recruiting - the Prendegast high picks that went nowhere.

October will be my Grand Final.

Has been that way since Junior left.....