POSTMATCH DISCUSSION - Round 11

[Jaded No More 58,113]

Mark Neeld:

"I think the Pies have had 24 shots at goal as a direct result of us turning the footy over."

Now, I think Neeld should go but surely he is not responsible for these players butchering it??

He's responsible for putting Dunn on kick out duties, he is responsible for dropping Strauss who is a superb kick down back, and he is responsible for not having a decent kick out strategy.

Apart from that, he is totally blameless and should be applauded for our brilliant results.

[Fat Tony 4,436]

Whilst we lack talent, this is being exacerbated by Neeld’s game plan and team selection. The key issue is our lack of purpose when we have the ball. We don’t look to attack with ball in hand – our players do not run forward anywhere near hard enough or with any confidence and we are afraid to use the corridor. This makes it hard to retain possession, as it gives time for the opposition to set the press.

In addition to his defensive game plan, we are also being handicapped by Neeld’s bias towards ‘grunt’ and size, rather than skill. Blease should be played in the backline and Davey in the midfield to give us some drive. Tom McDonald, Mark Jamar, Jordan McKenzie and Luke Tapscott are not skilled enough (and athletic enough in Jamar’s and Tapscott’s case) and should all be moved on at year’s end. Whilst I like McDonald’s athleticism and his courage, I feel he is not skilled enough by hand or foot or especially good at reading the ball off the boot. With these deficiencies, I can only ever see him being an ordinary player.

Although I don’t blame Neeld when individual players miss targets, I blame him for setting up a system which sees poorly skilled players exposed week after week.

[3Dee 1,153]

i like how we still do the huddle on kick outs. under 12s footy

[Scipio 5,868]

He's responsible for putting Dunn on kick out duties, he is responsible for dropping Strauss who is a superb kick down back, and he is responsible for not having a decent kick out strategy.

Apart from that, he is totally blameless and should be applauded for our brilliant results.

Strauss, who struggled to find the footy more than 6 times in a match? I don't think Neeld is a great coach but his hands are somewhat tied by our rubbish players.

[Jaded No More 58,113]

Strauss, who struggled to find the footy more than 6 times in a match? I don't think Neeld is a great coach but his hands are somewhat tied by our rubbish players.

A player who does a good defensive job first and foremost, and has good skills, should be persisted with over try hard "tough man" who can't kick.

Strauss needs to build confidence and experience. He should be on kick out duties and he should be given greater responsibility.

Don't bemoan turnovers when you keep playing players who can't kick, and have a structure that is impossible to kick to.

[pm24 451]

I heard Lyon sprout this one, I don't agree. I think the players were too lazy to make position up the field and left Col with no one to kick to, the players were running nowhere. I think this is a huge problem all round, we don't work at all let alone hard enough.

I was sitting down that end of the ground when Garland made that move. At no point did he look up after grabbing the ball out of the bag to play on. He got inside the square, touched the ball to foot, then looked up and realised he was screwed. the players were actually still gathering where they needed to in order to then lead out into space as per whatever the game plan is. It was Garlands fault.

[rjay 23,923]

I was sitting down that end of the ground when Garland made that move. At no point did he look up after grabbing the ball out of the bag to play on. He got inside the square, touched the ball to foot, then looked up and realised he was screwed. the players were actually still gathering where they needed to in order to then lead out into space as per whatever the game plan is. It was Garlands fault.

Good teams don't need to look they know their players know where to run and where to kick. I will take your word that it was Garlands fault, it didn't seem to bother Collingwood players who eren't worried about where our guys were.

[Red and Bluebeard 2,035]

I heard Lyon sprout this one, I don't agree. I think the players were too lazy to make position up the field and left Col with no one to kick to, the players were running nowhere. I think this is a huge problem all round, we don't work at all let alone hard enough.

I was right on the flank he was trying to kick to. Col did everything right except look up before playing on. It was late in rhe last term, Col.was nearest the ball, and seemed to feel he had to step up, given the poor quality of many other kickouts. It was an error he will regret, but I would far rather an error like that when he was busting a gut (as he had all game) than some of the lazy running and kicking on display earlier.

[drdrake 3,038]

Yesterday was bad plain and simple, for afl full time professional players to be unable to execute the fundamental elements of the game is unacceptable. Over half of the team just can't kick to advantage even worse hand pass to advantage then when we get it right don't have clean hands we fumble drop marks misjudge the flight. Last week I was critical of Watts work ethic, this week I'm back sympathizing with him as he did work for the ball to drop short or kicked to his opponents advantage.

We are not unfit we have to work to hard, we attack spread then turnover we need to work to defend, you can cope sometimes but not all the time and then we stop creating.

One thing we are drilled is running off for an interchange, it is like the players watch the clock as soon as their allocated time is up off they sprint one stage yesterday 5 five ran to the gate. We sprint to the gate no matter where the ball is

[titan_uranus 22,444]

It really grinds me that we can't really find enough 'rounded players'. For example, Dunn has a real crack, is physically imposing and has a bit of aggro but does stupid things which let him down. Nicholson - is quick but can't kick. Watts - skillful and athletic but little urgency and physicality... I could go on.

This seems to be a big problem. Not sure whether it is down to development or the kind of players we have drafted in the past but it gets me.

Where do you see this? I honestly do not know where this perception comes from. This really could not be further from the truth.

Dunn can kick 50 metres. To me, that is the only positive. His lack of commitment, his softness, his faux aggression, his constant waving of the arms, his yelling at others to do what he won't do, his laziness, his terrible field kicking, his inability to lower the eyes, and his general all-round pathetic approach to football far outweigh his occasional goal.

A player who does a good defensive job first and foremost, and has good skills, should be persisted with over try hard "tough man" who can't kick.

Strauss needs to build confidence and experience. He should be on kick out duties and he should be given greater responsibility.

Don't bemoan turnovers when you keep playing players who can't kick, and have a structure that is impossible to kick to.

Of course, then we'll bring in Strauss Blease etc. and your comment will be 'we need people who can win the clearances over these skinny soft types who won't attack the ball'.

I see your point, Jaded, but Strauss is still soft and doesn't get enough of the ball. If you're going to play off half back, the easiest position in football, you have to run hard, chase hard, work hard, and get amongst the play. 5 nice kicks a match from Strauss is not enough, and that's why he's getting dropped.

I'm in favour of him being brought back into the side, but my view is that if he can't lift his output this year he won't be here in 2014.

[deanox 8,633]

Good teams don't need to look they know their players know where to run and where to kick. I will take your word that it was Garlands fault, it didn't seem to bother Collingwood players who eren't worried about where our guys were.

Good point about good teams. This is the sort of thing that Neeld talks about when he says "experience" and "games together". The more games these kids play together the better this understanding between players will be. Whether Neeld or another coach is in charge until they players have played together long enough we won't see these areas improving.

[rjay 23,923]

Good point about good teams. This is the sort of thing that Neeld talks about when he says "experience" and "games together". The more games these kids play together the better this understanding between players will be. Whether Neeld or another coach is in charge until they players have played together long enough we won't see these areas improving.

It's only football common sense 'deanox' and so frustrating. Thing we don't really know is whether or not it is instruction, lack of confidence, laziness or as you say understanding and experience.

[deanox 8,633]

It's only football common sense 'deanox' and so frustrating. Thing we don't really know is whether or not it is instruction, lack of confidence, laziness or as you say understanding and experience.

Probably a combo of all rjay.

[pm24 451]

Good teams don't need to look they know their players know where to run and where to kick. I will take your word that it was Garlands fault, it didn't seem to bother Collingwood players who eren't worried about where our guys were.

That's true, and most of those good teams have had plenty of games playing with each other, and therefore are able to predict the movements of their team mates better. Unfortunately this is where we are lacking.

Garland wasn't the only problem though. Dunn didn't even see guys like Terlich, Kent and M Jones leading in to open space multiple times (and they were metres ahead of their opponents), instead he waited and then bombed it long to a contest, rather than kicking to a player in an advantageous position. We need better decision makers and readers of the play in our back line. Unfortunately, I could say that will come with experience, but the problem is that it's the more experienced players making those mistakes. We are in an impossible position with our list. The better leaders in our team, and core senior players are out injured (Frawley, Grimes, Clark and now Dawes), while many of those that remain just aren't cutting it (Dunn, Jamar to an extent, Sylvia at times). The newer recruits are showing more than some of those guys. Rodan has been good two weeks in a row now, Pedersen showed a bit. The youngsters are certainly showing more than many of those guys.

[rjay 23,923]

Sorry 'pm', thought Rodan was pretty bad myself. Brings nothing on field at senior level.

[titan_uranus 22,444]

Sorry 'pm', thought Rodan was pretty bad myself. Brings nothing on field at senior level.

He wasn't amazing, but he was able to feed out handpasses from packs, often to a player's advantage (crucial missing component of many MFC players' disposal). Thought he also used his body well in the clearances.

[pm24 451]

He wasn't amazing, but he was able to feed out handpasses from packs, often to a player's advantage (crucial missing component of many MFC players' disposal). Thought he also used his body well in the clearances.

I agree. When something positive happen (like Blease goal) he was right in think of that chain of position, creating space and delivering to players in an advantageous position.

He may not have played as well as last week, and didn't get the same amount of positions, but he still performed well when he got it. I would have loved him to have gotten more of it though.

[Demon Dynasty 15,554]

I though it was Bailey who started the idea of a footy university/school at the club? I haven't heard about this being attribute to Neeld...

I believe that players in the leadership group, and mayhaps some others are enrolled in a diploma of leadership or something like that, which is a new initiative under Neeld/Craig, but what I recall was that "the players are doing this sort of stuff anyway, so they got accreditation to award a qualification as part of the training" or something like that.

If be interested to see the articles or wherever you got your info from?

Not aware of any connection with Bailey that you're referring to. According to Neeld this is his University. From 3:08 minutes to approx 3:44.......

Edited June 11, 2013 by Rusty Nails

[biggestred 4,317]

the pies scored 89 points yesterday from turnovers. our skill errors.

our effort and application was there all day.

our skill level will improve.

[DeeZee 6,758]

Ok we need pace and we need to get the ball into the hands of those with good kicking skills.

Davey should play the quarterback role he was playing when Bails was coach.

Gotta get the ball into the hands of guys like Toumpas and Watts in the midfield and half forward line, as well as guys like Blease who can run and take em on.

Bring in Nicholson and Clisby as they both have good pace.

Have Dawes , Howe and Gawn inside 50 and the plan is to kick it long to these guys.

Trengove and the Jones boys as link players outside the packs, with Magner and couch gettin the ball out.

I wanna coach the Dees!

[DeeSpencer 23,188]

Ok we need pace and we need to get the ball into the hands of those with good kicking skills.

Davey should play the quarterback role he was playing when Bails was coach.

Gotta get the ball into the hands of guys like Toumpas and Watts in the midfield and half forward line, as well as guys like Blease who can run and take em on.

Bring in Nicholson and Clisby as they both have good pace.

Have Dawes , Howe and Gawn inside 50 and the plan is to kick it long to these guys.

Trengove and the Jones boys as link players outside the packs, with Magner and couch gettin the ball out.

I wanna coach the Dees!

Put Nicholson, Couch and Magner all in an AFL side and your coaching career will last about a week. None of them are AFL level. Throw Blease in and no way am I watching that side play.

[DeeZee 6,758]

Put Nicholson, Couch and Magner all in an AFL side and your coaching career will last about a week. None of them are AFL level. Throw Blease in and no way am I watching that side play.

Blease is the only guy we have with running power, its the oppositions ability to run with some pace thats killing us.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Positives:

• Davey is back in original form, great two goals
• The best Pedersen has played, marking was stronger but still weak on a 1 on 1
• Terlich had some great moments, stayed up when most would go down, had confidence, and had some great runs
• Fitzpatrick did well, laid some tackles
• Trengrove kicked two good goals and set up one which Watts should have kicked

Negatives:

• Blease turned over the ball almost every single time he had it, cannot kick, cannot hit targets
• Watts backed out of contests again
• No second efforts
• Silvia still providing the minimum
• ect.

You still don't know how to spell Trengove's name ?

Extraordinary.

[Carrot Top 947]

That's true, and most of those good teams have had plenty of games playing with each other, and therefore are able to predict the movements of their team mates better. Unfortunately this is where we are lacking.

And what really pisses me off about this line of thought: 'We just need to get more games into them' is that we never will. Most of them won't be there in 50 games. And then whoever is 2014/5 coach will say it again. It might be true to a point, but it's also a self fulfilling prophesy: tell the team they can't do it yet and they'll prove you right. Sometimes it's better that they don't realise how little a chance they have.

* I used your post to expand on something that has bugged me for a bit. It was a general response, and not one aimed at your post.

[PJ_12345 1,098]

You still don't know how to spell Trengove's name ?

Extraordinary.