Jack Trengove in 2013

[rjay 24,616]

Stynes not a champion of the game...putting aside what he did after the game i think it is fair to say a Brownlow medalist is a champion of the game.

If Neitz can't be described as a champion of the game then I'm not here.

David Neitz is a CERTAIN champion of the game.

The fact that he played 300 games and broke every record Melbourne has says enough.

Enough said.

Sorry guys, I agree with 'C&B and Ben' on this. In my mind the last true champion of the game we had was Flower, the others are club greats and we haven't had too many of them as of late either.

Let's hope we uncover a few with this group.

[Tatu 416]

Trengove invested heavily into the catch up training program.... That was put in place by the FD, because of our lack of fitness and AFL ready players...... All our players did.... The players that didnt aren't there anymore....

2012 season was one big preseason...... When they tapper the program down...... Our players will look a lot faster.....

[Ouch! 2,205]

well no, an All-australian player is in about the top 3% of all listed players, if you do that in 5 or more seasons you are a champion.. I should have included Harvey who has 8 selections and Scott West who has 5. Stynes got 2 and he retired 15 years ago.

2 B&Fs a Brownlow, 250+ consecutive games and I think it would be fair to say revolutionised the art of rucking in many ways... I still think thats pretty close in my opinion, but as I mentioned before I don't think many people agree on the definition of star/champion/legend etc on these boards.

I agree ours have been few and far between...

[Grimseyisgod 378]

Sorry guys, I agree with 'C&B and Ben' on this. In my mind the last true champion of the game we had was Flower, the others are club greats and we haven't had too many of them as of late either.

Let's hope we uncover a few with this group.

are you serious? Flower might be, i never got to see him play, i'm not passing judgement.

Neitz is very easily a champion of the game. I think that if he had left the game on a high, not with injuries, people would think differently of him.

I personally find it a disgrace that people especially Melbourne supporters dont think he is a great of the game.

He was a star, and a true champion

[rjay 24,616]

are you serious? Flower might be, i never got to see him play, i'm not passing judgement.

Neitz is very easily a champion of the game. I think that if he had left the game on a high, not with injuries, people would think differently of him.

I personally find it a disgrace that people especially Melbourne supporters dont think he is a great of the game.

He was a star, and a true champion

Find what you like, Barassi, Whitten, Skilton, Bartlett, Harvey, Voss, Carey, Mathews and the like are champions of the game.

Neitz was a terrific Melbourne champion and if we had of been able to leave him at CHB he may well have risen further but in his true spirit he played the role the coach asked of him and sacrificed his own game. He was probably our last club champion.

[Je Roos Salem 661]

It's not just Neitz who gets underrated, it's also other players who've retired in my lifetime as a footy supporter- Schwarz, Yze, Junior, Robbo, Bruce and now Green- all really good, passionate players who I consider champions of the Dees. Everyone gets far too excited about high picks who often turn out to be duds. At this stage the only player for us being up with that group is Jones (or definitely will when he retires)

We built a forward line around Neitz in our mostly successful Daniher era, he had a lead to die for, was a fantastic kick and had a huge impact on games. Leading games and goals holder for the club. In the ranks of pure key forwards, there's not THAT many better than him in the game's history I'd say.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Neeld Aniher

[Hannibal 5,814]

I've long believed that Neitz is underrated. A Champion of the game ?

Not for me. A rung below.

Edited November 28, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[Macca 16,646]

Neitz has been our best player since Flower . I saw both their career's and in terms of value to the team you could argue that Neitz was better . He played in a much tougher position, was arguably a better captain, made many of our forwards walk tall and 'frightened' a number of opposition backmen . His year at CHB was superb and he won All-Australian honours in 2 positions .

A lot of the stuff that Neitz did is hard to measure but look at what happened to our team once he lost his influence through injury etc

Yet somehow Flower is still ahead of him . Because of his sheer brilliance.

As for Trengove, you cannot 'lose' 2 yards of pace from the age of 19 to age 20 (he turned 21 in September this year) He showed all the signs of having OP .

Edited November 28, 2012 by Macca

[P-man 13,366]

I've long believed that Neitz is underrated. A Champion of the game ?

Not for me. A rung below.

Why though Ben? Can you provide some players of a similar mould to Neitz and explain how/why they differ or reached a different level in order to warrant the label of "champion". Perhaps I and others are slightly more liberal in applying that term.

For me his record speaks for itself, but he was also an absolute joy to watch.

[rjay 24,616]

As for Trengove, you cannot 'lose' 2 yards of pace from the age of 19 to age 20 (he turned 21 in September this year) He showed all the signs of having OP .

Without actually knowing it pretty much seems to be the case, the loss of depth in his kicking was another sign that all was not right.

[Grimseyisgod 378]

Find what you like, Barassi, Whitten, Skilton, Bartlett, Harvey, Voss, Carey, Mathews and the like are champions of the game.

Neitz was a terrific Melbourne champion and if we had of been able to leave him at CHB he may well have risen further but in his true spirit he played the role the coach asked of him and sacrificed his own game. He was probably our last club champion.

he is a champion of the game, just like Matthew Lloyd.

I am not saying he was as good as boomer, but he is still a champion never the less.

Barassi, Witten, Skilton, Bartlett and Matthews, you cannot compare neitz to them, different era's.

[rpfc 28,052]

he is a champion of the game, just like Matthew Lloyd.

I am not saying he was as good as boomer, but he is still a champion never the less.

Barassi, Witten, Skilton, Bartlett and Matthews, you cannot compare neitz to them, different era's.

Yeah, they won stuff...

That's glib, but that's what it comes down to.

You win flags, you are a champion.

Literally.

[rjay 24,616]

he is a champion of the game, just like Matthew Lloyd.

I am not saying he was as good as boomer, but he is still a champion never the less.

Barassi, Witten, Skilton, Bartlett and Matthews, you cannot compare neitz to them, different era's.

Not boomer, Rob Harvey

[Hannibal 5,814]

Why though Ben? Can you provide some players of a similar mould to Neitz and explain how/why they differ or reached a different level in order to warrant the label of "champion". Perhaps I and others are slightly more liberal in applying that term.

For me his record speaks for itself, but he was also an absolute joy to watch.

Just my opinion. You obviously have yours.

Neitz was an excellent player, but he was a bit robotic and on his bad days he couldn't get near it. On his bad days he dropped marks he should take, fell over and head butted the ground.

I class "champions of the game" full forwards such as Dunstall, Lockett, Hudson, and Ablett Snr. Matty Lloyd was a rung below the aforementioned, but a rung above Neitz. So I'd have Neitz two rungs below the true champions of the game.

There are degrees of everything and not everyone will agree with me. That's fine. I'm used to it.

[Theo 272]

I agree with Ben Hur, David was an excellent player but I thOught somewhat inconsistent. I think he should have retired one or two years earlier but with very few leaders at the club I don't think they had much choice. Although they may not have been champions (excrpt Flower) I preferred watching Jackovich, Schwartz, Flower, Hardaman and Alan Johnson. They seemed be a lot more consistent although David did have some great days out.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Theo

[nutbean 8,838]

are you serious? Flower might be, i never got to see him play, i'm not passing judgement.

Neitz is very easily a champion of the game. I think that if he had left the game on a high, not with injuries, people would think differently of him.

I personally find it a disgrace that people especially Melbourne supporters dont think he is a great of the game.

He was a star, and a true champion

You think its a disgrace because people have different opinions to you ? I absolutely loved Neita but unbiasedly, should he be mentioned in the same breath as Matthews ? Carey ? Even Jono Brown ? nope.... as mentioned - a true great or champion of the club but not a great of the game.

[nutbean 8,838]

Just my opinion. You obviously have yours.

Neitz was an excellent player, but he was a bit robotic and on his bad days he couldn't get near it. On his bad days he dropped marks he should take, fell over and head butted the ground.

I class "champions of the game" full forwards such as Dunstall, Lockett, Hudson, and Ablett Snr. Matty Lloyd was a rung below the aforementioned, but a rung above Neitz. So I'd have Neitz two rungs below the true champions of the game.

There are degrees of everything and not everyone will agree with me. That's fine. I'm used to it.

the words of star and champion are bandied about too easily and too often - agree with everything you have written above.

Last champion we produced was tulip. The Ox in my opinion had the makings but unfortunately a large dose of bad luck to stop him ever reaching the heights I thought he would.

[Biffen 12,846]

the words of star and champion are bandied about too easily and too often - agree with everything you have written above.

Last champion we produced was tulip. The Ox in my opinion had the makings but unfortunately a large dose of bad luck to stop him ever reaching the heights I thought he would.

Since '85 ,

Flower ,OX ,Nietz and Lyon are the only "Elite players" we have had .

When the OX was on song ,he was probably the best "single -handed game changer" you could ever see .

Never saw him as a clutz.Ever.

Matthew Lloyd was good when they were good-a front runner of the highest order who got the ball on a platter .

[old dee 23,505]

Since '85 ,

Flower ,OX ,Nietz and Lyon are the only "Elite players" we have had .

When the OX was on song ,he was probably the best "single -handed game changer" you could ever see .

Never saw him as a clutz.Ever.

Matthew Lloyd was good when they were good-a front runner of the highest order who got the ball on a platter .

I am not a fan of Lloyd the commentator but as a footballer

He was an excellent Full Forward.

I don't care how good the deliver was.

He consistently kicked large numbers of Goals over a long period.

End of story

[Chook in Perth 2,092]

Neitz was an outstanding player, but not a champion. Didn't "carpe diem" in the big moment often enough. Hitting the post from metres out first q 2000 GF classic example. Ironically I believe he may have been a champion in the G Jakovich mould if he'd stayed at CHB for the duration.

G Lyon is the best player we've had in the last 25 years on true output, but injuries made a mess of him.

I'm with Hannabal, we haven't had a true champion since Robbie. There are 2 players that I'm certain would have reached true champion status but were both cruelly denied. One did his knee 3 times and the other hurt his butt shagging on a glass table.

Oh, and on topic - I'm certain Trengove will show in 2013 why he went pick 2 and has been a superstar at every level. He'll be like a new recruit. fit, fresh, quicker, less defensive, more outside: Cotchin like.

Edited November 29, 2012 by Chook in Perth

[Grimseyisgod 378]

You think its a disgrace because people have different opinions to you ? I absolutely loved Neita but unbiasedly, should he be mentioned in the same breath as Matthews ? Carey ? Even Jono Brown ? nope.... as mentioned - a true great or champion of the club but not a great of the game.

i disagree, i believe he is a champion of the game. just my opinion

[Hannibal 5,814]

i disagree, i believe he is a champion of the game. just my opinion

Not a good one, but we're all entitled.

[rjay 24,616]

i disagree, i believe he is a champion of the game. just my opinion

It's your opinion mate, not a disgrace either way. We all see things differently, it's only the word disgrace I have an issue with. One of the things that makes sport great are the differing opinions we have, it really makes this site hum along even when there are no games being played. You gotta love it.

[Grimseyisgod 378]

Not a good one, but we're all entitled.

thats not fair to say it's not a good one, it's not like i am saying that Brad Green was a champion. I'm saying David Neitz, the best MFC player we've had on statistics, leadership and games. Won a coleman, unfortunetely never got to win a premiership

[Deeoldfart 7,996]

Thread needs a poll, NiceGuy/Hulkomania/Rangey/?

One suggestion: "Was Trengove carrying an injury last year?"

That's the only conclusion I can come to, although nothing was ever mentioned by the Club, and I don't recall any speculation to this effect in the media. His work rate was still there, but he didn't have the zip and surety that we had come to expect, and his kicking definitely lacked its usual crispness and penetration.