Three Losses that Raised Eyebrows

[Dr. Mubutu 852]

I have just read this article from The Age: http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/three-losses-that-raised-eyebrows-20121030-28hpu.html

(Yes, I live in Queensland, I'm a little slow on these things)

The basic tenets of the article, however, do not sit well with me.

It raises questions over 3 games in 2009 - Sydney, Richmond and St Kilda; and the proffers arguments as to why Melbourne were 'tanking' these games.

However, similar coaching moves were made in subsequent years (a few of these games we actually won), with no questioning.

Sydney - R17, 2009

Questionable decision to put Morton on to Goodes - yet not seen as questionable exactly a year later, when the Swans were smashed by 73 points, or in the drawn first game of 2011?

Richmond - R18, 2009

Talk was made of Frawley and Warnock playing forward - in 2012, Rivers and Garland played forward, and it paid dividends.......it seems the difference between 'looking for flexibility' and 'outright cheating', in the eyes of the author, is the result, but how is that to be known without trying the experiment? Also, were Geelong tanking this year, when they sent Taylor forward in multiple games? Fremantle when making Tarrant a KPD?

Miller in the ruck - I'm sure that subsequent to this game, Juice, Dunn and even Sylvia have had to contest hitouts, due to stoppages occurring with no ruckman in the area.

PJ at fullback - come on, it's not as if he were to be much more useful in any other position on the ground.

Nathan Brown sent deep into defence - wait, is that Doggy, who retired at the end of 2007, or the Richmond player of the same name........

".....a centre-bounce set-up featuring flankers Ricky Petterd and Matthew Bate also raised eyebrows" - I seem to recall a 'superstar' centre bounce team of Spencer, Nicholson and Bail in round 22 of this year, yet there were no suggestions of 'strange coaching moves' from this game.

St Kilda - R21, 2009

Frawley being moved from Reiwoldt - I seem to recall that Frawley didn't play on Reiwoldt this year, but a certain 2nd-year player did. Didn't perform too badly, either. Is it so hard to accept we may have more than one capable defender?

Jurrah on the wing - was Bailey also tanking 186, when Jurrah also played up the ground? Yeah, that seems legit..........

Perhaps, being a Melbourne supporter, I've had reason to see these similarities, but surely, if you're going to put your name into a national newspaper in print, you'd do some sort of research?

Why is it so hard for the media to accept that in 2009, we were just rubbish?

[olisik 4,060]

How many threads are we up to now about this. Must be into the double figures.

[jnrmac 20,061]

I have just read this article from The Age: http://www.theage.co...pu.html<br />(Yes, I live in Queensland, I'm a little slow on these things)

The basic tenets of the article, however, do not sit well with me.

It raises questions over 3 games in 2009 - Sydney, Richmond and St Kilda; and the proffers arguments as to why Melbourne were 'tanking' these games.

However, similar coaching moves were made in subsequent years (a few of these games we actually won), with no questioning.

Sydney - R17, 2009

Questionable decision to put Morton on to Goodes - yet not seen as questionable exactly a year later, when the Swans were smashed by 73 points, or in the drawn first game of 2011?

Richmond - R18, 2009

Talk was made of Frawley and Warnock playing forward - in 2012, Rivers and Garland played forward, and it paid dividends.......it seems the difference between 'looking for flexibility' and 'outright cheating', in the eyes of the author, is the result, but how is that to be known without trying the experiment? Also, were Geelong tanking this year, when they sent Taylor forward in multiple games? Fremantle when making Tarrant a KPD?

Miller in the ruck - I'm sure that subsequent to this game, Juice, Dunn and even Sylvia have had to contest hitouts, due to stoppages occurring with no ruckman in the area.

PJ at fullback - come on, it's not as if he were to be much more useful in any other position on the ground.

Nathan Brown sent deep into defence - wait, is that Doggy, who retired at the end of 2007, or the Richmond player of the same name........

".....a centre-bounce set-up featuring flankers Ricky Petterd and Matthew Bate also raised eyebrows" - I seem to recall a 'superstar' centre bounce team of Spencer, Nicholson and Bail in round 22 of this year, yet there were no suggestions of 'strange coaching moves' from this game.

St Kilda - R21, 2009

Frawley being moved from Reiwoldt - I seem to recall that Frawley didn't play on Reiwoldt this year, but a certain 2nd-year player did. Didn't perform too badly, either. Is it so hard to accept we may have more than one capable defender?

Jurrah on the wing - was Bailey also tanking 186, when Jurrah also played up the ground? Yeah, that seems legit..........

Perhaps, being a Melbourne supporter, I've had reason to see these similarities, but surely, if you're going to put your name into a national newspaper in print, you'd do some sort of research?

Why is it so hard for the media to accept that in 2009, we were just rubbish?

Not a Morton fan but if I remeber correctly he slaughtered Goodes on that occasion. Great match up.

[Bossdog 2,002]

Not a Morton fan but if I remeber correctly he slaughtered Goodes on that occasion. Great match up.

Nah ....sorry....Goodes kick 4 and was Sydneys best player

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Nah ....sorry....Goodes kick 4 and was Sydneys best player

That's true, but none the less the point the OP made is still valid.

[Nasher 33,616]

I just find it funny that anyone can find it questionable when the team on the bottom of the ladder gets rolled by the team on the top of the ladder. These people did actually watch us play in 2009 didn't they?

[The Big Ticket 94]

Nah ....sorry....Goodes kick 4 and was Sydneys best player

He obviously meant '09. I remember it well. He actually laid a few good tackles on Goodesy that day.

[Deefiant 441]

It's not a matter of questionable moves anymore. It's a matter of orders to lose games which is supported by the questionable moves. If they didn't have people coming forward saying they had orders to lose games then we wouldn't have a problem

[premiers13 48]

What people coming forward? They are anonymous or 'allegedly it was reported....'

Any of us can make anything up, put it in print and according to 'the Age' , it must be true!'

A Carlton president once had a great saying to some this up 'Pigs Ar..'

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Nah ....sorry....Goodes kick 4 and was Sydneys best player

I think Morton had close to 30 touches and 2 goals also, Goodes was good but i remember that game and Morton actually did well following a quality guy like Goodes around the park.

[Deefiant 441]

What people coming forward? They are anonymous or 'allegedly it was reported....'

Any of us can make anything up, put it in print and according to 'the Age' , it must be true!'

A Carlton president once had a great saying to some this up 'Pigs Ar..'

Yes any of us can make stuff up and put it in print, but I doubt anyone believes it. Most stories that newspaper cover are true and have a certain degree of research more than what you and I know would know. I think everyone is worried about Melbourne at the moment and we're grasping at straws, but you don't hear Melbourne knocking down doors at the age for making false stuff up. If the 'vault' meetings didn't occur, you'd expect a response similar to the racism claims

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

Yes any of us can make stuff up and put it in print, but I doubt anyone believes it. Most stories that newspaper cover are true and have a certain degree of research more than what you and I know would know. I think everyone is worried about Melbourne at the moment and we're grasping at straws, but you don't hear Melbourne knocking down doors at the age for making false stuff up. If the 'vault' meetings didn't occur, you'd expect a response similar to the racism claims

The club will respond once the AFL have finished theeir investigation...They won't forget the Haters.

[drdrake 3,163]

Can someone show me footage when we were beating Richmond with a minute to go where the runner told our players to turn the footy over and to allow a goal from 50m out after the siren. With all the articles written people are forgetting how bad a team we were in 2009 and that we needed that priority pick to give us some hope. It has turned out to be a curse with 4 of our first road picks since 2007 are now gone. These aledged players that have come forward need to accept they are the ones that underperformed over a long period of time that forced the club to bottom out and rebuild through the drafts.

[Waltham33 475]

The Morton one makes me laugh because the coaches wanted Morton to become another Goodes and a logical strategy was to match them up so he could get a first hand look at what that meant. Happens all the time. Get serious.

[wisedog 352]

It's funny, when these games were played and were most relevant, there was none of the outrage we see today. It was as if people understood the position Melbourne was in, and turned a blind eye to what had to be done.

In fact, I recall an episode of Footy Classified where Craig Hutchinson openly implored the club to do everything in its power to secure the priority pick. (I don't recall Caroline Wilson referring to those sentiments as "disgusting" at the time.)

Now 3 years later and without proper context, some journalists have decided they were outraged after all.

[Little Goffy 14,542]

Collingwood in 2005, based on a quick scan of possible 'dodgy' games.

Rnd 8, vs Richmond, at 3/4 time Collingwood are up by 10 points, 7.8.50 to Richmond 5.10.40. In the final quarter, Collingwood kick 1 goal 2 behinds, to Richmonds remarkable 8.5. Collingwood lose by 35.

Rnd 18, vs Fremantle, just coasting along nicely to be behind by about the same amount every quarter, lose by two goals, 85 - 98.

Rnd 19, vs North Melbourne, ahead by two goals at 3/4 time, North kick 7.4 to 'Pies 4.3 in the last, Pies lose by one goal, 98 - 104.

Rnd 20, vs Carlton, game relatively even until 3rd, when Carlton blow it out to a seven goal difference. Collingwood surprise by regaining considerable ground in the last, then Carlton blow it back out again. This is Carlton '2005 version' we are talking about. Game notable for Buckley being extensively 'rested' in the forward pocket during the period that Collingwood were looking like getting back in the game.

After 4 wins at the halfway point of the season, including a midseason rally defeating top 4 team West Coast and top 8 team Geelong, the Collingwood Magpies go on to record just one more win, rounding out the season with 8 consecutive losses.

[Little Goffy 14,542]

Hawthorn in 2005, also a very quick survey

Rnd 6, vs Carlton, Hawthorn lead all game, with a three goal margin at 3/4 time; 10.8.68 to 7.8.50. In the final quarter, Hawthorn kick 2.3 to Carlton's 6.3, Hawthorn lose by one goal. Remembering again, this is 2005 Carlton.

Rnd 21, vs Richmond, ahead by a couple of goals in a high-scoring game, 17.5.107 to Richmond's 14.11.95, Hawthorn managed 4.2 to Richmond's 6.6, losing by one goal despite Richmond's woeful kicking late in the game.

[warren dean 193]

I think Morton had close to 30 touches and 2 goals also, Goodes was good but i remember that game and Morton actually did well following a quality guy like Goodes around the park.

Morton had 14 and Goodes had 17 http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/games/2009/111620090726.html

Morton did quite well on him. We were never in this game. Four goals down at half time and lost by 18 points.

[Redleg 40,915]

I just find it funny that anyone can find it questionable when the team on the bottom of the ladder gets rolled by the team on the top of the ladder. These people did actually watch us play in 2009 didn't they?

You have to learn to ignore facts and logic.

[Brian Wilson 331]

Here's a fourth:

Round 10, 2012: Essendon vs Melbourne:

Exhibit A: James Frawley misses the game with a 'sore foot'. Frawley plays in both rounds 9 and 11, seemingly without discomfort.

Exhibit B: Career defenders, Colin Garland and Jared Rivers, are inexplicably thrown into the forward line, despite Frawley's absence. The MFC defence is left horribly undermanned, despite facing a tall and dominant Bomber attack.

Exhibit C: Rohan Bail is a late exclusion with 'concussion'. Bail completed a career best game the previous week against Carlton (24 possessions, 5 marks, 3 tackles), without showing any signs of concussion.

Exhibit D: Eyebrows are raised when Jack Watts, a player 'drafted to play CHF', lines up on the half back flank, despite Neeld explicitly stating earlier in the year that he would play in the forward line in 2012.

Exhibit E: Neeld throws his FD's coaching structure into disarray by pausing for a quarter-time interview with Channel 7.

Exhibit F: Cale Morton is not named as the sub. Nor is he substituted.

Exhibit G: The MFC Cheer Squad's banner contains numerous holes, and thus what should be a traditionally inspirational message turns into a deflating reflection on the club's finances and managerial acumen.

Highly suspicious and worthy of the back page of Monday's Age.

[Freddy Fuschia 741]

2005 Collingwood v North Melbourne @ The Docklands

Collingwood leading North by three goals well into the final quarter. Shannon Grant is on fire and becomes the catalyst for the Kangaroos' fight back and a famous victory while Malthouse keeps a tortoise paced Shane Woewoedin on Grant for the whole of this period.

Collingwood end up losing eight in a row and score a priority pick. The AFL's interest: NIL

This is just one of the many games to be highlighted in a new book, "The history of tanking in the AFL: 1999-2012"

[monoccular 17,428]

Here's a fourth:

Round 10, 2012: Essendon vs Melbourne:

Exhibit A: James Frawley misses the game with a 'sore foot'. Frawley plays in both rounds 9 and 11, seemingly without discomfort.

Exhibit B: Career defenders, Colin Garland and Jared Rivers, are inexplicably thrown into the forward line, despite Frawley's absence. The MFC defence is left horribly undermanned, despite facing a tall and dominant Bomber attack.

Exhibit C: Rohan Bail is a late exclusion with 'concussion'. Bail completed a career best game the previous week against Carlton (24 possessions, 5 marks, 3 tackles), without showing any signs of concussion.

Exhibit D: Eyebrows are raised when Jack Watts, a player 'drafted to play CHF', lines up on the half back flank, despite Neeld explicitly stating earlier in the year that he would play in the forward line in 2012.

Exhibit E: Neeld throws his FD's coaching structure into disarray by pausing for a quarter-time interview with Channel 7.

Exhibit F: Cale Morton is not named as the sub. Nor is he substituted.

Exhibit G: The MFC Cheer Squad's banner contains numerous holes, and thus what should be a traditionally inspirational message turns into a deflating reflection on the club's finances and managerial acumen.

Highly suspicious and worthy of the back page of Monday's Age.

and just remind us all - who won that game? :-))