Who the hell is responsible?

[BarnDee 287]

A few bad eggs every club has them. They come and they go. But what is happening at our club is different. When the majority of the list is [censored] off then there is a serious problem higher up beyond the playing group and FD. It is beyond the realms of reality that we could have recruited so may losers. I owe an apology to Cameron Bruce. I bagged him when he left but around 186 I came to the realisation to why he he walked and why so many senior and prime draft pick players are are now gone. My word is that more than a few of our so called backbone players remaining are biding their time or just taking the money and don't give a Faark. All goes back to Schwab and his lackeys. They put this club on it soul destroying tanking strategy, meddling with player development and FD issues. Marginalising loyal players and burning recruits. Performance which is the heart and soul of a football club has spiralled down to VFL level. They legitimise themselves on the success of Debt Demolition as justification but which will likely need to be repeated on the back of financial losses this season and next year. When it all goes sour they remove anyone who disagrees. The current coach is now Schwab's No.1 lackey with the culture change mantra. Removed some malcontents and replaced them with has beens and never we're's. Coming in to do Schwab's dirty work to save his new bosses skin. He will never get respect from his players and they will perform in kind. They will get their Karma but at more expense and angst for this club in the meantime.

well capt america its confirmed to me , bruce left coz he was only offered 1 more year , is that right ? or you dont know , your post is just a silly sook , jump off

[Biffen 12,380]

OK mono - BP + the players + Development - OK? (and the Norm Smith curse)

But you can only judge BP on his record and it's not looking good

Yeah and velocity sports.

Fat Phil

Vlad

Brent Grgic

Juice Newton

Derryn Hinch

Rupert Murdoch

Range Rover

The War

The Mortons

The Lot.

[Yossarian 1,808]

Well, I'm happy so thread closed. Have you noticed how many cougars are out on a Friday? I'm amazed I came back with clothes on. What were we talking about?

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

A few bad eggs every club has them. They come and they go. But what is happening at our club is different. When the majority of the list is [censored] off then there is a serious problem higher up beyond the playing group and FD. It is beyond the realms of reality that we could have recruited so may losers. I owe an apology to Cameron Bruce. I bagged him when he left but around 186 I came to the realisation to why he he walked and why so many senior and prime draft pick players are are now gone. My word is that more than a few of our so called backbone players remaining are biding their time or just taking the money and don't give a Faark. All goes back to Schwab and his lackeys. They put this club on it soul destroying tanking strategy, meddling with player development and FD issues. Marginalising loyal players and burning recruits. Performance which is the heart and soul of a football club has spiralled down to VFL level. They legitimise themselves on the success of Debt Demolition as justification but which will likely need to be repeated on the back of financial losses this season and next year. When it all goes sour they remove anyone who disagrees. The current coach is now Schwab's No.1 lackey with the culture change mantra. Removed some malcontents and replaced them with has beens and never we're's. Coming in to do Schwab's dirty work to save his new bosses skin. He will never get respect from his players and they will perform in kind. They will get their Karma but at more expense and angst for this club in the meantime.

If you stop supporting this club I will buy an extra membership every year in your stead.

You are a nasty and bitter troll, and I don't like the way you post on Demonland!

[asco86 9]

The few that state their loyalty to the previous regime must truly be stupider than they look or than we mortals can imagine they are. Can I yet again state the definition of insanity "doing the same thing over and again and expecting a different result" ... what do you morons expect??? Would you like to wallow in mediocrity until we disappear??? Neeld has balls and has the guts to do what has been needed at our club for so long and turn the useless, pretentious list over. Yes, he will make mistakes. No, not every trade will be right. But he's changing the culture and putting the weak players on notice - get in line, or f*** off!!!! I for one AGREE!!!! Who gives a [censored] if he's taking risks...by god we need it... I for one welcome those "supporters" who are not renewing their memebership to GET F***ED....we dont need your fickle kind.. only strong life long supporters for the ride in from here thanks...although once we start winning I'm sure you'll be back on board!!!

[angrydee 842]

A few bad eggs every club has them. They come and they go. But what is happening at our club is different. When the majority of the list is [censored] off then there is a serious problem higher up beyond the playing group and FD. It is beyond the realms of reality that we could have recruited so may losers. I owe an apology to Cameron Bruce. I bagged him when he left but around 186 I came to the realisation to why he he walked and why so many senior and prime draft pick players are are now gone. My word is that more than a few of our so called backbone players remaining are biding their time or just taking the money and don't give a Faark. All goes back to Schwab and his lackeys. They put this club on it soul destroying tanking strategy, meddling with player development and FD issues. Marginalising loyal players and burning recruits. Performance which is the heart and soul of a football club has spiralled down to VFL level. They legitimise themselves on the success of Debt Demolition as justification but which will likely need to be repeated on the back of financial losses this season and next year. When it all goes sour they remove anyone who disagrees. The current coach is now Schwab's No.1 lackey with the culture change mantra. Removed some malcontents and replaced them with has beens and never we're's. Coming in to do Schwab's dirty work to save his new bosses skin. He will never get respect from his players and they will perform in kind. They will get their Karma but at more expense and angst for this club in the meantime.

Spud

[machine11 142]

As a paid up member of 30 years I feel very angry that we have stuffed up on recent high draft picks. Now we are giving up those missed chances for B grade pickups. It's a total disgrace and one that MFC members should no longer tolerate. FFS if you recruit a first rounder - Get it right! develop them!

Gysberts? WTF....who apart from himself is responsible for his failure

Morton? Pick bloody 4. I am nonplussed.

This bloody club has to lift its game with recruiting.

Now we have a list of players who couldn't get a game at any other club. What a joke. Bugger a membership. And think I paid money to get this club out of debt.

[bing181 8,188]

Now we have a list of players who couldn't get a game at any other club.

See: Sydney Swans. They won a premiership with a fair number of discards and hand-me-downs.

You just watch.

In any case, we had a list of players who couldn't get a game at any other club to start with. Morton for pick 88 pretty sums up where we are. Or were.

[Ned 156]

See: Sydney Swans. They won a premiership with a fair number of discards and hand-me-downs.

You just watch.

In any case, we had a list of players who couldn't get a game at any other club to start with. Morton for pick 88 pretty sums up where we are. Or were.

Yes, the Swans are a precedent, that's true.

To the numpty going on about me turning up in

my scarf etc, I live in Sydney champ and unfortunately rarely get to see the Dees. But like many, I still take out a couple of memberships a year to support the club I follow.

It's difficult to have confidence in the club. I like everyone hope Neeld is the man who turns things around, and as I repeated, I liked the moves until Rodan. But it looked rash from there. I guess we'll know in 12 months. If it does I'll be happy to put my hand up; it'd be a joy for MFC to be proven right.

[Meggs 573]

Yesterday I was talking to a junior coach at a Melbourne AFL based club who said that on a scale of 1 to 10 where 10 is the coach does what the players want and 1 is the players do what the coach wants, in his opinion Chris Scott is a 9 and Mark Neeld more a 2 !

This would support the FIFO strategy outlined earlier in this thread.

[Biffen 12,380]

See: Sydney Swans. They won a premiership with a fair number of discards and hand-me-downs.

You just watch.

In any case, we had a list of players who couldn't get a game at any other club to start with. Morton for pick 88 pretty sums up where we are. Or were.

We got a bargain. Hope the kid at 88 is a tank that becomes a legend .Then Cale will have done something for us .

[Biffen 12,380]

Well, I'm happy so thread closed. Have you noticed how many cougars are out on a Friday? I'm amazed I came back with clothes on. What were we talking about?

Thats when they hunt.Always go out with a friend and tell any predators you are a Melbourne supporter-be careful of the sympathy cougars.Just as dangerous.

[daisycutter 28,637]

Yeah and velocity sports.

Fat Phil

Vlad

Brent Grgic

Juice Newton

Derryn Hinch

Rupert Murdoch

Range Rover

The War

The Mortons

The Lot.

you left off

the vibe

the constitution

the whole mabo thing

[dees64 104]

the responsibility lays with everyone!

Past recruiters who drafted poorly!

Senior players who should have taken the responsibility to lead by example & create a culture for all the young players that hard work is required.....instead we now have senior players leave the club because Neeld would not put up with the crap!

Why do you think that young captains were appointed?

Why has Jones worked hi butt off and become a better player & embraced Neeld,Craig & Mission way?

Imagine if we had 3 or 4 jones running around the midfield with his work ethic????

These exits whilst tells a sad story of our list, a new culture was needed & just recruiting kids is not enough. We required strong bodies & successive culture to be pushed through from senior players to our young players.

[Guest José Mourinho]

As a paid up member of 30 years I feel very angry that we have stuffed up on recent high draft picks. Now we are giving up those missed chances for B grade pickups. It's a total disgrace and one that MFC members should no longer tolerate. FFS if you recruit a first rounder - Get it right! develop them!

Gysberts? WTF....who apart from himself is responsible for his failure

Morton? Pick bloody 4. I am nonplussed.

This bloody club has to lift its game with recruiting.

FFS - you only just realised this??!?!??

[7-UP 107]

A few bad eggs every club has them. They come and they go. But what is happening at our club is different. When the majority of the list is [censored] off then there is a serious problem higher up beyond the playing group and FD. It is beyond the realms of reality that we could have recruited so may losers. I owe an apology to Cameron Bruce. I bagged him when he left but around 186 I came to the realisation to why he he walked and why so many senior and prime draft pick players are are now gone. My word is that more than a few of our so called backbone players remaining are biding their time or just taking the money and don't give a Faark. All goes back to Schwab and his lackeys. They put this club on it soul destroying tanking strategy, meddling with player development and FD issues. Marginalising loyal players and burning recruits. Performance which is the heart and soul of a football club has spiralled down to VFL level. They legitimise themselves on the success of Debt Demolition as justification but which will likely need to be repeated on the back of financial losses this season and next year. When it all goes sour they remove anyone who disagrees. The current coach is now Schwab's No.1 lackey with the culture change mantra. Removed some malcontents and replaced them with has beens and never we're's. Coming in to do Schwab's dirty work to save his new bosses skin. He will never get respect from his players and they will perform in kind. They will get their Karma but at more expense and angst for this club in the meantime.

Some times I wonder whether you are an actual dees supporter?

You know what, since you hate Schwab so much i think you are a freemantle supporter that trolling the demonland.

[Sir Why You Little 34,697]

Some times I wonder whether you are an actual dees supporter?

You know what, since you hate Schwab so much i think you are a freemantle supporter that trolling the demonland.

that thought has crossed my mind to. I don't think i have read one positive comment from ADC yet.

[Demon17 4,624]

Neeld is responsible now along with Schwab . I thought we were supposed to have a strategy of a rebuilding club, letting go players, like Junior etc

Don't you think thye know that. Neeld's first year was always to be - "let's see what wev'e got".. The answer was not much and now he simply decisively cuuting the chaff and rebuilding in an accelerated manner.

Previous recruting back to early 2000's under ND etc was appalling. Lets hope that incompentnece is over. Mitch Clark was a good early pointer.

Go dees.

[stueyspencer no12 73]

Well someone suggests I buy in or bugger off! Having been a member for 40 odd years it's unlikely I will do that.indeed I'm signed up for 2013, and I desperately hope I'm wrong.

Leaving aside my views as to the coach, does anyone dispute that we've downgraded the senior players since the beginning of this year? Moloney,Green,Davey, and now Rivers. All leaders in 2011.

Does anyone dispute that we've recruited a number of players who couldn't get a game at their previous clubs? Byrnes,Pedersen,Rodan. Even Dawes who looks a good type and may add to leadership was dropped before the finals was he not?

Gysberts and Petterd both had almost zero preseason. The Club, in it's review mentioned Petterd's Achilles problems. At their relative ages I rate Petterd and Gysberts as better prospects than Rodan.

This afternoon I've watched the match v Richmond early last season. As with so many matches we were THRASHED around the packs. In the 3rd quarter inside 50s were 24/3. Yet what has been done to address this greatest weakness? Sure, in time Viney will no doubt help. But shouldn't this have been the top priority?

For those who think I am wrong re the coach, and again I hope I am wrong, isn't it true that we plummeted last year? And, please tell me, what exactly is the game plan? Having seen every game live or on tv I say quite honestly that I had no idea. And neither,I believe did the players

[Bossdog 2,002]

I just watched the 1st St Kilda game of last season where we lost by 3 goals.......I could plainly see what the game plan was and we executed it for 3/4's.....It was only in the last quater that the young blokes got tired....And anybody that says Jamar is not up to it should watch this game.....He was great..

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

the responsibility lays with everyone!

Past recruiters who drafted poorly!

Senior players who should have taken the responsibility to lead by example & create a culture for all the young players that hard work is required.....instead we now have senior players leave the club because Neeld would not put up with the crap!

Why do you think that young captains were appointed?

Why has Jones worked hi butt off and become a better player & embraced Neeld,Craig & Mission way?

Imagine if we had 3 or 4 jones running around the midfield with his work ethic????

These exits whilst tells a sad story of our list, a new culture was needed & just recruiting kids is not enough. We required strong bodies & successive culture to be pushed through from senior players to our young players.

Our culture has been the problem. It's been flabby and unprofessional.

Our DNA has sucked too - and it's probably because we've been a bit inbred in our senior player ranks over a long period of time, none of whom had ever tasted any success and therefore didn't know what the key ingredients to success looked like.

For instance, Leo Barry said to my mate a few weeks ago that the culture of the club's obviously been pretty ordinary because we can't attract good players and we always have to pay 'overs' to retain our established players - the latter of which sings out 'poor culture'.

Well, I think things are now changing under Neeld, and quite dramatically.

To all of those who suggest we paid 'overs' for Dawes, the reality is that a few clubs wanted him and he selected us. This would not have occurred previously (eg, Luke Ball wouldn't even talk to us).

I also suspect we weren't the only club into Pedersen. He wanted to come to us.

Farren Ray apparently wanted to come to us too - we just couldn't get the deal over the line.

Mitch Clark was a lock in for Freo - he then elected to come to us, and he's stated a number of times since that he loves the club and wants to spend the rest of his playing years with us.

There are still instances of players not wanting to come to us (eg, Caddy and Wellingham), but it seems a lot better now than anytime previously.

In short, things are changing. It's because of the new blood - Neeld, Misson, Craig, Rawlings, Leigh Brown etc.

Further to Leo Barry's comment above, I have to say I've never really observed any of our former 'leaders' (Junior and Neita aside) willingly extend their MFC contracts. It always seems to be an issue.

But I'd be stunned to see that from any of the new brigade - they all seem to want to commit to the club, and they commit early.

And I reckon the new mature age recruits who've been introduced this year have a similar headspace.

Our culture is improving. And this trade period will serve only to accelerate that improvement.

We're getting rid of the bad DNA and injecting some better stuff into the mix.

My only disappointment during the trade period is that we didn't manage to land Ray - I want players who want to play for this club.

[DEELIRIOUS 156]

I just watched the 1st St Kilda game of last season where we lost by 3 goals.......I could plainly see what the game plan was and we executed it for 3/4's.....It was only in the last quater that the young blokes got tired....And anybody that says Jamar is not up to it should watch this game.....He was great..

What his 50 hitouts and 3 to advantage. Your standards of a 'great' game then must be a complete shambles.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Mick Malthouse annoys the carp out of me but I will give him this: he turns boys into men who become aggressive, talented, hard working footballers.

Any coach will tell you they need talent and that you can't make chicken salad out of chicken [censored]. It's exceedingly difficult to make players aggressive, but he knew the blueprint of the types of players he wanted and traded and drafted accordingly.

When Malthouse took over Collingwood in 2000 he traded, retired, or delisted 12 players. He did it because they were either past their best, or not good enough. He knew he had to turn the list over rather than wave some mythical wand and turn boys or NQR's into men or decent players. He built the list that he wanted and developed them accordingly. And yes, he's a very good coach. His players loved him. Two years after that clean out and two years after they finished bottom 4 they played in a GF.

Neeld knows what he's dealing with and has the chance to develop his own list. We'll know soon enough if he's any good.

Edited October 27, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[stueyspencer no12 73]

I just watched the 1st St Kilda game of last season where we lost by 3 goals.......I could plainly see what the game plan was and we executed it for 3/4's.....It was only in the last quater that the young blokes got tired....And anybody that says Jamar is not up to it should watch this game.....He was great..

Well, seriously, what IS the game plan? Compared with the previous season it seemed to involve;

Kick it close to the boundary line

Concentrate on contested possession. Quit this nonsense of creating the loose man with handball! (if you want to continue to bag DB have a look at Dees v Swans in 2010, or Dees v Adelaide 2011)

Ignore forwards other than Clark (in the first few matches they repeatedly kicked it over Watts' head when he made possession)

Make Tapscott play out of possession. Does no-one recall the first games he played in 2011 deep on the back line?

And basically destroy the self-esteem of the few senior players on the list, eg Moloney.

[fuchsia 37]

these tantrums seem a little odd !!!

considering the delistings or otherwise was expected for months.

isn't there another post here somewhere that asked the quest.? which 11 or 13 delistings r needed ?.!or will happen.?

it seems that most if not all were expected.

watching inspector gadget roam in/out of a slow motion jog & collect 23 odd posies at casey was always going to happen..

(shoulder problem & all )

as well as gys on his vegan diet.& my 8yo runs quicker.anyway.

rivers knees,brents sooking over the leadership.

martins fumbling,bennells (knee) & others lack of intensity & consistency..cook can't keep his spot in casey seniors for crying out loud.

& hardly performs with aplomb in the two's.

petterd ? well what a wasted talent. lazy?lack of effort ?

all list cloggers with schoolboy attitudes.or iq's.

2005 saw nathan jones @ 12 then NOTHING till pick 54( simon buckley)(then byron )

since then COMFORTABLY DUMB CHOICES..

I for one see MOVEMENT AT THE STATION- as the word was passed around that lack of effort will be accompanied by

similar happenings in the future.