Wellingham/Dawes super trade (scuppered)

[Guest neeldstherealdeal]

Certainly wasn't a personal slur. I think it's reasonable to suggest that Neeld, Harrington etc. wouldn't consider your views on football to be worth listening to. They are part of the industry and you are a poster on a fan site. I'd be disappointed if they thought any differently.

The point is that you don't know what's really happening. Nor do you have the skills that immersion in the industry would give you. And just because you have a bunch of people who are similarly misguided, it doesn't mean that it's worth listening to. It may make you feel better, but it won't make any difference whatsoever.

Why does Schwab post on this site and other club leaders read this site then if the average supporters' views are "not worth listening to"?

I'll bet you they'll listen if fans declare their intention to drop off in droves if the club goes down a short-term-fix recruiting path.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

I'm with you, but in all honesty I couldn't see them being silly enough to entertain it anyway. Another cheap headline to join the multitude at this time of year!

Lets hope so.

[s-t-i-n-g-a 439]

I agree entirely. The player doesn't care which pick is given up, only the club does.

It doesn't make sense.

We could be trying to appease the club so they speak favourably to the player about the move? It's all I could think of and it sounds pretty desperate. I hope Emma has it wrong or it's part of the posturing for Viney.

[dee-luded 2,959]

The issue for me is we don't NEED to have both or either of them. There are alternative solutions. That really is our point of leverage. Yeah they'd be handy but it's not imperative. Collingwood on the other hand NEED to unload/do something.

I'd sit and wait,continue looking elsewhere , make the Filth sweat a bit and lower their sights some.

Hang tough here Melbourne, not the end of the world to not get them

Spot on bbb59, the Pies Must move someone on, so give us a goldsack or so?

I suspect they would be further in the red than just this.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

Just like you are allowed to say what you want, despite not being worth listening to.

I took this sentence to be you in the singular. If it was meant as plural, I apologise for the misunderstanding.

While I am not an industry expert, I am quite capable of listening to others who are. David Schwartz on SEN radio suggests that Dawes is not worth a third round pick and his fellow callers could not find grounds to dispute that. We saw earlier today that Emma Quayle thinks Melbourne would be "mad" to consider it. Coupled with my own observations of the player I think I have reasonable grounds to form an opinion.

[Tatu 416]

Don't mind the idea of Dawes and wellingham, but not at that price..... Pick 13, id say yes..... Pick 13 and Martin, I'd say maybe...... Pick 4, NO WAY!!!

[Fat Tony 5,231]

Our Head of Recruiting's biggest decision this year is whether or not to recruit his son. Our under the pump coach is considering trading pick 4 for Wellingham and Dawes.

The MFC board has a lot to answer for.

[beelzebub 23,377]

Our Head of Recruiting's biggest decision this year is whether or not to recruit his son. Our under the pump coach is considering trading pick 4 for Wellingham and Dawes.

The MFC board has a lot to answer for.

Not normally nor often on the same page, and I'm still reading it slightly different to yourself but the underlying irony is inescapable..

The cub needs to be wise in its choices and astute in their deliverance.

[Nascent 9,215]

I also disagree strongly with trading Nathan Jones, the changing of our club colours to lilac and tangerine and adopting Pokemon as our new Mascot.

Which Pokemon?

[Hannibal 5,814]

I haven't given it a tonne of thought, but what I could perhaps stomach in our quest for Dawes is the following scenario:

Trade pick 13 and pick 26 (assuming we have to use 3 on Viney) to Collingwood in exchange for Dawes and pick 17.

I believe there's a good chance that West Coast will (ultimately) cough up their first round pick (17) for Wellingham and we could get back into the first round by exchanging it with pick 26 in a Dawes trade.

I feel pick 13 by itself for Dawes is too much, but bumping pick 26 up 9 places and getting back into the tail end of the first round and back in the top 20 could work.

[ILLDieADemon 804]

As long as I can see Viney & Grundy in Red & Blue jumpers I will be a happy chap! Everything else is a bonus.

If this happens then Grundy will be going to Collingwood.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Certainly wasn't a personal slur. I think it's reasonable to suggest that Neeld, Harrington etc. wouldn't consider your views on football to be worth listening to. They are part of the industry and you are a poster on a fan site. I'd be disappointed if they thought any differently.

The point is that you don't know what's really happening. Nor do you have the skills that immersion in the industry would give you. And just because you have a bunch of people who are similarly misguided, it doesn't mean that it's worth listening to. It may make you feel better, but it won't make any difference whatsoever.

Bob the reason we have a board like this is so people can express their opinion and if they want to also express that opinion to the club they are similarly entitled; only the club will know if it makes a difference.

If the club gets to the stage where they don't think the supporters are worth listening to then they will lose those supporters.

[beelzebub 23,377]

Not too shabby a scenario BH. As usual all then depending on other's dominos to fall

I'm Starting to consider our real position is to offer 26 for Dawes, take it or leave it. And they can deal with weagles for wellingham

[Axis of Bob 11,826]

I took this sentence to be you in the singular. If it was meant as plural, I apologise for the misunderstanding.

It was singular. It's not particularly relevant though.

While I am not an industry expert, I am quite capable of listening to others who are. David Schwartz on SEN radio suggests that Dawes is not worth a third round pick and his fellow callers could not find grounds to dispute that.

So you are reflecting 'industry experts' like Schwarz (ha!!) and talkback callers (ha!!). There's a reason Ox isn't working in a football club, but rather playing the LCD role on a talkback radio station. Citing talkback callers also doesn't help you.

Coupled with my own observations of the player I think I have reasonable grounds to form an opinion.

You don't know what is happening and your opinion, to a full time senior coach, is the same as my opinion on the works of Rembrandt - I'm allowed to have one but it's not worth anything.

Why does Schwab post on this site and other club leaders read this site then if the average supporters' views are "not worth listening to"?

They don't care what your opinion on specific player trades is. They care about the things where your opinion is important. Things like member seating, event quality, possible improvements to membership services etc. These are things, as paying members, where your opinion matters because the club is selling you stuff (like a membership, event tickets, merchandise etc.).

Your opinion on the implementation of key football department strategies is worthless, especially when you don't even know what that strategy is!

How did the protests from Hawthorn members go when Trent Croad was traded for pick 1 in 2001? It didn't change a thing and, as it turned out, the members were wrong because they had no idea who Luke Hodge was.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

So you are reflecting 'industry experts' like Schwarz (ha!!) and talkback callers (ha!!). There's a reason Ox isn't working in a football club, but rather playing the LCD role on a talkback radio station. Citing talkback callers also doesn't help you.

My opinion of Schwartz when up considerably after the Scully mess resolved. He went very early on saying that Scully was already one and that the decision had been made. I bagged him for it, and I was wrong. Schwartz backed his information and was validated fully.

Also, if that "you" was singular, then how is it not a personal slur?

[Axis of Bob 11,826]

Also, if that "you" was singular, then how is it not a personal slur?

Because I could replace "you" with "me" and it's the same.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

Because I could replace "you" with "me" and it's the same.

Fair enough.

[Tatu 416]

I think about add West Coast into the deal ... I don't want Wellingham...... Pick 13 for Dawes and Koby Stevens, I'd do that ...

[Choko 493]

It was singular. It's not particularly relevant though.

So you are reflecting 'industry experts' like Schwarz (ha!!) and talkback callers (ha!!). There's a reason Ox isn't working in a football club, but rather playing the LCD role on a talkback radio station. Citing talkback callers also doesn't help you.

You don't know what is happening and your opinion, to a full time senior coach, is the same as my opinion on the works of Rembrandt - I'm allowed to have one but it's not worth anything.

They don't care what your opinion on specific player trades is. They care about the things where your opinion is important. Things like member seating, event quality, possible improvements to membership services etc. These are things, as paying members, where your opinion matters because the club is selling you stuff (like a membership, event tickets, merchandise etc.).

Your opinion on the implementation of key football department strategies is worthless, especially when you don't even know what that strategy is!

How did the protests from Hawthorn members go when Trent Croad was traded for pick 1 in 2001? It didn't change a thing and, as it turned out, the members were wrong because they had no idea who Luke Hodge was.

It was singular. It's not particularly relevant though.

So you are reflecting 'industry experts' like Schwarz (ha!!) and talkback callers (ha!!). There's a reason Ox isn't working in a football club, but rather playing the LCD role on a talkback radio station. Citing talkback callers also doesn't help you.

You don't know what is happening and your opinion, to a full time senior coach, is the same as my opinion on the works of Rembrandt - I'm allowed to have one but it's not worth anything.

They don't care what your opinion on specific player trades is. They care about the things where your opinion is important. Things like member seating, event quality, possible improvements to membership services etc. These are things, as paying members, where your opinion matters because the club is selling you stuff (like a membership, event tickets, merchandise etc.).

Your opinion on the implementation of key football department strategies is worthless, especially when you don't even know what that strategy is!

How did the protests from Hawthorn members go when Trent Croad was traded for pick 1 in 2001? It didn't change a thing and, as it turned out, the members were wrong because they had no idea who Luke Hodge was.

Things like who the coach will be? Paul Roos says hi

[beelzebub 23,377]

I think about add west coast into the deal....... I don't want Wellingham...... Pick 13 for Dawes and Koby Stevens, I'd do that....

Who wouldn't

[Guest Mengele]

I think about add west coast into the deal....... I don't want Wellingham...... Pick 13 for Dawes and Koby Stevens, I'd do that....

I definitely do not want that hack in our side either.

Dawes & Stevens for 13 is a bit much, however, if MFC can not bring in another established power forward, then this may have to do.

Beggers can't be choosers.

[daisycutter 29,616]

I definitely do not want that hack in our side either.

Dawes & Stevens for 13 is a bit much, however, if MFC can not bring in another established power forward, then this may have to do.

Beggers can't be choosers.

nor should beggars be suckers

[beelzebub 23,377]

I definitely do not want that hack in our side either.

Dawes & Stevens for 13 is a bit much, however, if MFC can not bring in another established power forward, then this may have to do.

Beggers can't be choosers.

We only have to choose not to be begars, same as refusing the victims mentality. We choose our path to our needs and if nothing surfaces we go via more drafting less trade. I agree no need to be suckers here.

[Lampers 563]

We know that club powerbrokers read this site and occasionally post on it. So, let's send them a message ....

DO NOT give up our draft pick gold for B and C graders or you will face a supporter backlash. The mooted Dawes/Wellingham 'super deal' is nothing of the sort for Melbourne and would mark a serious decline in the premiership outlook for the club.

The supporters understand the need for an injection of experience, but not at that price.

Picks 3 and 4 MUST BE OFF LIMITS unless bona-fide A-grade quality is being offered in return. No compromises.

If you agree, add your support and comment below.

If rebuild through early draft picks was the only answer, we wouldn't be where we are today.

While Pick 3 or 4 for Dawes and Wellingham seems steep, there is something to be said for acquiring known quantaties in exchange for a risk (i.e. draft pick spent on a player only tested against other underage players). Plenty of top 10 draft picks have been duds in the past, there is no guarantee.

When you look at Sydney and Geelong, they are not littered with high draft pick players. They have a culture that breeds success and develops players to the best of their abilities.

I'd love to have our cake and eat it too, but what price do you put on bringing in a culture that should lead to better returns on the whole playing list's abilities?

I'd trust Neeld to know what Dawes' true abilities, potential, leadership and work ethic is. I don't rate Dawes on the field, but he'd still be the 2nd best tall forward on our list...

The other point would be when talk of trades have got out in the past, they often end up being half true. The draft pick is the wrong one, or there are other picks to even it out, or another player involved.

Given what I've heard about Neeld, he rates attitude higher than talent. Right or wrong, I believe most of the moves this period that may leave us scratching our heads will be around moving out players with the "wrong" attitude, and bringing in players with the "right" attitude.

If at the end of this period Melbourne have brought in 4 or 5 definite first 22 players with mature bodies and around 100 games experience, that will be massive for onfield competitiveness in 2013 and will probably mean double the wins.

[ILLDieADemon 804]

I'm ok with giving pick 13 for Dawes but pick 4 for Dawes and Wellingham I feel isn't the best idea.

Not a good idea forcing someone to go to a club they don't want to, they will play will no hart and wast tthe clubs time.