MFC's Poor Drafting.

[Redleg 40,925]

I know I am only an armchair expert, but I am not alone when I say we have generally drafted poorly over the last few years.The media and most footy experts certainly agree.

I am the first to admit I don't know how many times a boy farts after eating his breakfast, or whether he likes looking at girlie magazines, or whether he kisses his mother good night before bed or even if he says prayers before he sleeps. I certainly don't know how many short sprints a player can do before fainting, or what his reach is or whether he can play only inside or only outside or both, but maybe we are now over analyzing boys, to the extent we are dismissing good footballers.

I don't go to all the TAC cup games, or even see every boy play live, but rather see a few of those games and others in you tube highlights. I read Demonland and learn a bit more about certain players.

With that background, along I went to a draft function at the MFC, hosted by Chris Connolly a couple of years ago fairly confident in my mind that if still there at our pick 11 we would take Daniel Talia. During the function Chris told us we would not select him but rather Gysberts if there at pick 11. To put it mildly I was pretty shocked, but hey I wasn't the expert, who was I to argue. Today Gys is being spoken of by some on here as being tradeable and not having the right fitness or attitude and Talia is verging on AA selection having beaten many of the best forwards in the AFL. The next year at our first selection we took Lucas Cook who is yet to play a game, while many on here screamed for us to take Darling who looks a great player and has about 50 games up already. Cook is another being spoken about on here as in danger of being delisted. These two selections are but a couple of so many we seem to have got horribly wrong. Yes Cook may still make it as may Gys, but even if they do they are a mile behind the other two. Yes I know drafting is littered with mistakes, but we seem to have made far more than all the other clubs.

Now I know drafting is not an exact science and many will say, look at the other clubs that also passed on these players, but that is not the point. The point is that we have had professionals in one of the most important positions in a football club and one would have to say overall, when looking at our recent drafting history, that we have failed miserably.

We were told that we would fix up our midfield a few years ago and that we would now draft quick players with skill, who could play in the midfield. Feel free anyone to disagree with this next statement, "IMO we have the slowest and worst midfield in the AFL and the worst disposal of any club." How has that happened?

It seems to me that we over analyze every potential draftee and thereby miss the best footballers. We have probably drafted some very nice lads however.

We need to fix this problem right now, as if we don't, given our list and the opportunity we might get this year with high picks, we may be doomed to the bottom of the ladder for a very long time.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Redleg

[beelzebub 23,376]

Is it just that weve drafted poorly or that we had an imperfect blueprint to fulfill ?

If you plan to get the wrong ( in hindsight ) types and suceed then the drafting was according to plan, just the plan was stuffed !!

either way though...we got duped

[Bang Bang Bang 5,826]

Gysberts over Talia I'm not that uncomfortable with. I have not seen a single Crows game this year but even if Talia is verging on AA (really?), we still have T-Mac and Frawley who are going to be around for a long time together, as well as Garland (having a bad year granted), Rivers still has a few years left, etc. We are fine for talls down back. I still think Gysberts will be a player too.

I agree that Cook over Darling is looking like an absolute howler.

One thing that is often overlooked is the Scully, Trengove 1+2 combo. Now, Scully is now irrelevant, but I've monitored him at GWS and he is hardly setting the world on fire. Trengove likewise. Now I'm sure our boy will end up a gun (heck he's captain at 20) but there have been several players taken after them that look like bona fide stars. The guy taken at 3 being one. BP famously didn't bother interviewing him.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Sylvia Saint

[sylvinator 96]

Unfortunately, as much as it pains me to say, Watts over Naitanui was a HOWLER.

I've been watching Naitanui a lot recently, he's a genuine star. His ruck work is something to behold and the way he can take games by the scruff of the neck, it unbelievable. I've never seen anything like the things he does. And he actually does it consistently. His development at only 22 of whatever is crazy.

Watts may become a very good player. he may become average. the jury is still out.

But even at the time, most clubs would have taken Naitanui.

We went for needs (KPF) and you NEVER should do that with a number 1 pick (even though I know Watts was considered a top 3 prospect, Naitanui was a clear number 1). And now it looks like Watts isn't even a KPF... depressing

[praha 11,240]

IMO the club has drafted fine...it was ditching players like McDonald, Yze, White so early on that ultimately hurt the team going forward. An extra year for those players and the younger players would have had valuable guidance.

There's also the overrating of the team by Melbourne fans and media alike. Everyone expected Melbourne to follow the Hawthorn model, even though it managed to draft superstars in the 2001 and 2004 drafts: Melbourne never had the likes of a Franklin, Hodge, or even Crawford in the team.

Dees have a great group of young players. Every team has made mistakes, but Melbourne's are magnified because it's had so many top draft picks. This team will eventually be better than Richmond, North. I have no doubt about that.

[Carlos Danger 380]

I don't think things can ever get any worse than the 2001 draft, still hurts to look at it.

[Demon Disciple 12,127]

sure we could have picked player A over player B, etc. But would have player A turned out half as good with us than with their respective teams? Given the development of our young brigade so far, i think not.

[binman 42,972]

Unfortunately, as much as it pains me to say, Watts over Naitanui was a HOWLER.

I've been watching Naitanui a lot recently, he's a genuine star. His ruck work is something to behold and the way he can take games by the scruff of the neck, it unbelievable. I've never seen anything like the things he does. And he actually does it consistently. His development at only 22 of whatever is crazy.

Watts may become a very good player. he may become average. the jury is still out.

But even at the time, most clubs would have taken Naitanui.

We went for needs (KPF) and you NEVER should do that with a number 1 pick (even though I know Watts was considered a top 3 prospect, Naitanui was a clear number 1). And now it looks like Watts isn't even a KPF... depressing

No. Both will be great players but Watts will be better.

[bing181 9,238]

Ah, another "our drafting sucks" thread to add to the umpteen other "our drafting sucks" threads.

The media and most footy experts certainly agree.

Do they?

Every club has draft success and failures. Ours have been pointed out from time to time, but no more than any other club's.

[Carlos Danger 380]

No. Both will be great players but Watts will be better.

I'd ask if you're referring to basketball but then I remember that Naitanui dunk.

[Mallee Bull 97]

MFC 2000 Pick 16 Scott Thompson (went home to S.A)

MFC 2001 Pick 9 Luke Molan

MFC 2002 Pick 14 & 15 Daniel Bell and Nicholas Smith

MFC 2003 Pick 3 Sylvia Pick 5 B McLean

MFC 2004 Pick 13 Matthew Bate Pick 15 Lynden Dunn (Pick 15 was from Crows for Thompson)

MFC 2005 Pick 12 Nathan Jones

MFC 2006 Pick 12 James Frawley

MFC 2007 Pick 4 Cale Morton Pick 14 Jack Grimes

MFC 2008 Pick 1 Jack Watts 17 Blease 19 Strauss

MFC 2009 Pick 1 Scully Pick 2 Trengove Pick 11 Gysberts Pick 18 Tapscott

MFC 2010 Pick 12 Lucas Cook

MFC 2011 Pick 11 Traded for Mitch Clarke

The jury is still out from 2007 onwards IMO, but most of our first round draft picks from the first half of the last decade have been ordinary players at best. This is one of the main reasons we have been so bad for the past 6 years. How we can identify and develop blokes like Jolly, Jamar, Davey etc from the rookie draft but then be unable to nail our high draft picks astounds me.

[Guest KingDingAling]

We couldn't had drafted worse if we'd tried.

Jetta, Smith, Talia, Martin, Fyfe, Shuey, Darling are just a small list of players

somehow passed over by us - for reasons I'm yet to see..

Unlike the OP, I was following TAC and other leagues alike leading up to all drafts and I was absolutely

shocked on draft day at our incompetency.

3 players I was over the moon to get where they were picked - Sam Blease, I had him potentially in the top ten that year.

Luke Tapscott - I didn't think there was much between him and Trengove, I had Tapscott comfortably rated in the top 10.

Jeremy Howe - I liked little of what I seen, he had great skills a great leap and looked to have a touch of spark, I thought it was a good speculative pick.

Picks that left me scratching my head - James Strauss, we picked him before Blease which left me scratching my head.

At the time, Blease and Shuey had no right to be still on the board, yet we choose James Strauss, I never understood that then - and dont now.

Gysberts - I had him after the first round, probably going around 22-23, we stuffed up taking him at 11, there was still A LOT of talent on the board.

You look at the talent after Gysberts and just think of not what could've been - but what should've been.

Cook - I dont mind Lucas Cook, didn't mind him as a player - but not a first rounder, I thought second round was around the mark

and I thought he would've slipped.

One thing I never pay much attention to is " we had to choose Gysberts, Cook where we did, or other sides were taking them"

The common line that clubs roll out to keep supporters happy.

I will add that I would've taken Jack Watts at number 1.

Maybe I am bias because he is a Victorian - and I'm probably bias on most Vics, hence why Im really dirty that Shuey - a leader of men

and a former Metro captain - is wearing Blue and Gold and we chose James Strauss over him, that is the blunder of all blunders, was then and is now.

Edited August 13, 2012 by KingDingAling

[Mallee Bull 97]

Ah, Sorry Dinga Ling but you aren't quite right there. Blease was selected at 17, Shuey at 18, then Strauss at 19. Personally I think that is the correct order for them anyway, Blease is starting to show big things, I think he will end up the better player of the three. Strauss is only 12 months over a broken leg. Give him time. Look how Blease is starting to bounce back finally after his own broken leg.

[Guest KingDingAling]

Ah, Sorry Dinga Ling but you aren't quite right there. Blease was selected at 17, Shuey at 18, then Strauss at 19. Personally I think that is the correct order for them anyway, Blease is starting to show big things, I think he will end up the better player of the three. Strauss is only 12 months over a broken leg. Give him time. Look how Blease is starting to bounce back finally after his own broken leg.

I thought Blease was after Strauss, but I was wrong.

Still doesn't excuse the fact that Sloane, Zaharakis, Robinson, Ballantyne, Redden, McKernan, Beams, Hannebery, Motlop

all went after Strauss and most those players had superior form leading into the draft.

All Strauss dont was pin point a couple on Watts chest in the Metro game and we picked him.

Strauss, Gysberts and Cook were a shock to most recruiters at the time and we are still paying the cost.

Players taken after Gysberts: Talia, Lewis Jetta, Nat Fyfe, Bastinac, Jack Gunston. Menzel!

Our recruiting has been poor.

Edited August 13, 2012 by KingDingAling

[fuchsia 37]

it is all to do with the quality of the "RECRUITER"

smart ,canny with a humble but confident attitude with a decent record who knows his own limitations ...

I have met barry pendergast & craig cameron in a small supporter group meet & greet..

All BP could talk or boast about in his history was his ,coaching of " sam mitchell" as a junior who was initially unwanted.

but he did not impress at all as a diligent or smart head of recruiting type,as he was NOT open to others opinions too readily.

he had the old "too proud or do you know who iam look" with a limited IQ which came across & as such not the type you would be confident to succeed.or at least to be put in charge.

craig cameron was awfully arogant with a similar make up but more extreme.

abrasive & contemptuous of supporters..He did not want to be there at all .& one could easily take a view that he would not look beyond the bleeding obvious.in recruiting..

not smart enough to pick diamonds in rough or gems of any shade..

MFC history is riddled with similar agenda's..that fail so miserably it is embarassing..

when supporters can say "why did u pick such & such & not the obvious better choice" it gets all too much ...

i remember quite easily thinking that COOK-GYSBERTS ,STRAUSS & FITZPATRICK were shameful choices..

but hoping against hope i was wrong..

now fitzpatrick is starting to show something; i am wrapt at being wrong about him ( maybe ?)

but the others r systematic skinny kids that will struggle to play with big bodies..

now the new head of recruiting is not in place ..waiting for the coll/wood guy or relying on the the ex cop.unknown.

dont hold your breath..

at least the boards of the MFC have been consistant if totally lacking since the days of the great " JIM CARDWELL"..

NSmith's comment TO " get rid of these blokes still resonates".

Edited August 14, 2012 by fuchsia

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

I know I am only an armchair expert, but I am not alone when I say we have generally drafted poorly over the last few years.The media and most footy experts certainly agree.

I am the first to admit I don't know how many times a boy farts after eating his breakfast, or whether he likes looking at girlie magazines, or whether he kisses his mother good night before bed or even if he says prayers before he sleeps. I certainly don't know how many short sprints a player can do before fainting, or what his reach is or whether he can play only inside or only outside or both, but maybe we are now over analyzing boys, to the extent we are dismissing good footballers.

I don't go to all the TAC cup games, or even see every boy play live, but rather see a few of those games and others in you tube highlights. I read Demonland and learn a bit more about certain players.

With that background, along I went to a draft function at the MFC, hosted by Chris Connolly a couple of years ago fairly confident in my mind that if still there at our pick 11 we would take Daniel Talia. During the function Chris told us we would not select him but rather Gysberts if there at pick 11. To put it mildly I was pretty shocked, but hey I wasn't the expert, who was I to argue. Today Gys is being spoken of by some on here as being tradeable and not having the right fitness or attitude and Talia is verging on AA selection having beaten many of the best forwards in the AFL. The next year at our first selection we took Lucas Cook who is yet to play a game, while many on here screamed for us to take Darling who looks a great player and has about 50 games up already. Cook is another being spoken about on here as in danger of being delisted. These two selections are but a couple of so many we seem to have got horribly wrong. Yes Cook may still make it as may Gys, but even if they do they are a mile behind the other two. Yes I know drafting is littered with mistakes, but we seem to have made far more than all the other clubs.

Now I know drafting is not an exact science and many will say, look at the other clubs that also passed on these players, but that is not the point. The point is that we have had professionals in one of the most important positions in a football club and one would have to say overall, when looking at our recent drafting history, that we have failed miserably.

We were told that we would fix up our midfield a few years ago and that we would now draft quick players with skill, who could play in the midfield. Feel free anyone to disagree with this next statement, "IMO we have the slowest and worst midfield in the AFL and the worst disposal of any club." How has that happened?

It seems to me that we over analyze every potential draftee and thereby miss the best footballers. We have probably drafted some very nice lads however.

We need to fix this problem right now, as if we don't, given our list and the opportunity we might get this year with high picks, we may be doomed to the bottom of the ladder for a very long time.

And that is exactly why Sylvia should be a required player. He may not be the typical MFC choir boy type - but he has the DNA of an absolutely elite footballer.

And I reckon Neeld will now build the required discipline into him, even though Daniher and Bailey could not.

Picking Lucas Cook over Jack Darling is the one I just can't live with. Such an idealistic approach from a struggling club in need of an aggressive, power forward at the time.

[beelzebub 23,376]

I don't think things can ever get any worse than the 2001 draft, still hurts to look at it.

2003 gives it a nudge

[whatwhat say what 22,757]

Poor doesn't begin to describe our recruiting.

And on top of it there's been a lack of development compounding the drafting.

[Guest José Mourinho]

Pretty sure Gysberts wasn't a shock at 11.

Maybe to armchair recruiters, but Geelong & Sydney were both said to be very keen.

Definitely has the talent.

It's the physical side & attitude that needs work, and I reckon both of those clubs would back themselves to fix a player in those areas.

As we should do now.

But is it nature or nurture?

I firmly believe the biggest influence in our "poor drafting record" has been our inability to develop those we have drafted.

[satyricon 267]

YAWN!!!!!!

[Jack Jack 415]

And on top of it there's been a lack of development compounding the drafting.

Injuries have certainly curtailed our currently listed players development. Blease, Strauss, Cook, Jurrah, Watts etc etc have had little continuity with games and all had extended periods on the sidelines with injuries. It'd be nice to have a clear run to see where we actually stand with a lot of these players.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Caption the photo competition ....

* Winner gets to pick our next draftees names out of a hat on draft day. Don't worry you will do a better job than this man.

[Dr. Mubutu 853]

Unfortunately, as much as it pains me to say, Watts over Naitanui was a HOWLER.

I've been watching Naitanui a lot recently, he's a genuine star. His ruck work is something to behold and the way he can take games by the scruff of the neck, it unbelievable. I've never seen anything like the things he does. And he actually does it consistently. His development at only 22 of whatever is crazy.

Watts may become a very good player. he may become average. the jury is still out.

But even at the time, most clubs would have taken Naitanui.

We went for needs (KPF) and you NEVER should do that with a number 1 pick (even though I know Watts was considered a top 3 prospect, Naitanui was a clear number 1). And now it looks like Watts isn't even a KPF... depressing

Watts is the more clear footballer, though, whereas Naitinui is an athlete. With many posters here bemoaning our drafting of athletes over footballers, why the problem when we plump for the kid who has the better football brain?

Furthermore, I'd put forward that without Cox, Naitinui wouldn't be half the player he is now.

Hopefully, with Clark now at the club, he can be our CHF, leaving Watts to use his skill to pinpoint passes onto his chest.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

IMO the club has drafted fine...it was ditching players like McDonald, Yze, White so early on that ultimately hurt the team going forward. An extra year for those players and the younger players would have had valuable guidance.

There's also the overrating of the team by Melbourne fans and media alike. Everyone expected Melbourne to follow the Hawthorn model, even though it managed to draft superstars in the 2001 and 2004 drafts: Melbourne never had the likes of a Franklin, Hodge, or even Crawford in the team.

Thats garbage. White and Yze were finished. I could not believe MFC gifted Yze another 3 year contract at the end of 2005 when he started on the bench in the elimination final and he came on and toe poked the ball. White was dwarfed by other ruckman and could not play a role elsewhere on the ground. Neither were natural leaders. McDonald should have got another year but no more. MFC have a penchant for providing good retirement options for players past there use by date.

No one has overrated this team at all. There was alot of hope that we would use our draft picks well and uncover a star or stars. To date that has not eventuated.

And that is exactly why Sylvia should be a required player. He may not be the typical MFC choir boy type - but he has the DNA of an absolutely elite footballer.

Elite footballer?? Spare me. After nine years he's country bumpkin with an inability to commit week in and week out to requirements of AFL. His record to date is anything but elite. More immature.

I firmly believe the biggest influence in our "poor drafting record" has been our inability to develop those we have drafted.

Despite the fact that all the players we have delisted and gone onto other Clubs have all been duds.

Jamar, Garland, Bartram, Martin, Bruce,Davey Junior, Jolly, Simmonds, Robbo have all been low or rookie picks that have carved good AFL careers. Hardly an inability to do so. Just a misconception.

There is no doubt that as in all areas on and off the ground, MFC could and should have done better. But to try an create an illusion that one issue (lack of development) somehow mitigates (poor recruitment) is disingenuous.

Our track record for recruitment in the 21st century has been overall near abysmal.

MFC 2000 Pick 16 Scott Thompson (went home to S.A)

MFC 2001 Pick 9 Luke Molan

MFC 2002 Pick 14 & 15 Daniel Bell and Nicholas Smith

MFC 2003 Pick 3 Sylvia Pick 5 B McLean

MFC 2004 Pick 13 Matthew Bate Pick 15 Lynden Dunn (Pick 15 was from Crows for Thompson)

MFC 2005 Pick 12 Nathan Jones

MFC 2006 Pick 12 James Frawley

MFC 2007 Pick 4 Cale Morton Pick 14 Jack Grimes

MFC 2008 Pick 1 Jack Watts 17 Blease 19 Strauss

MFC 2009 Pick 1 Scully Pick 2 Trengove Pick 11 Gysberts Pick 18 Tapscott

MFC 2010 Pick 12 Lucas Cook

MFC 2011 Pick 11 Traded for Mitch Clarke

The jury is still out from 2007 onwards IMO, but most of our first round draft picks from the first half of the last decade have been ordinary players at best. This is one of the main reasons we have been so bad for the past 6 years. How we can identify and develop blokes like Jolly, Jamar, Davey etc from the rookie draft but then be unable to nail our high draft picks astounds me.

Great post Mallee.

You can add we traded pick 12 in 2004 for Beamer.

I reckon you could expand that to the first two rounds of the draft and MFC performance overall under Cameron/ BBBP has been abysmal. There have been odd wins (Frawley) but far too many fails.

The rebuild of 2007 was already compromised by the yawning gaps in our list created in the period 2000 to 2004

[The heart beats true 18,123]

Furthermore, I'd put forward that without Cox, Naitinui wouldn't be half the player he is now.

Excellent point! Having people around to learn from is a huge help. Gys is hardly developing under the wings of Cale Morton, Brent Moloney and Matthew Bate is he?

Nik Nat made it obvious he didn't want to leave WA but I think people forget how strong the desire to go home is when it suits their argument (We wouldn't even have Mitch Clark if he hadn't thought about going home. We just got lucky with cash and timing). Naitinui would have played 2 years for us and then left. Lets hope the home sickness works in our favor with Boak and Caddy.