On the Couch - Brock talks about 'tanking'

[deanbarber 37]

i honestly dont see the difference between tanking for draft picks, and taking key players out of a potential finals side.

- Both teams are not playing their best players, both for the future.

- Both teams arent too concerned about the four points.

Teams like Hawthorn and Collingwood have done this in the past 24 months.

I know they have their differences, yet they have close similarities, yet only one gets analysed and criticised.

Or am i just too one eyed/jealous because we havent had the opportunity to do it at the top of the ladder?

[Sir Why You Little 37,126]

lol

WTF?

We didn't tank in the Kreuzer Cup - we were the [censored] moral patsy in that little sh!tstorm!

(I will get a warning point for that)

Gardner saw no tanking while he was in charge, what he saw was his coach and his FD move from an old list to a young list and give them a gameplan that they couldn't play well.

That is nowhere near tanking.

Dean Bailey may disagree.

Are you inferring that back in '08 there was no discussion in here concerning Tanking??

[rpfc 28,777]

Dean Bailey may disagree.

Are you inferring that back in '08 there was no discussion in here concerning Tanking??

Yeah, it was ABOUT CARLTON TANKING IN THE GAME YOU THINK WE TANKED IN THE PREVIOUS SEASON.

Gardner was gone by the middle of the season.

And as Viney12 pointed out in the 'Can't wait' thread - Gardner mentioned talking to Craig Cameron before leaving the game.

Craig Cameron left the club in 07!!

Do you remember any talk about as tanking under Danners? Or Bomber Riley when he beat Carlton twice and the Bulldogs?

Gardner shouldn't have spoken, because he either misspoke or lied and now we deal with the damage.

Great.

[Sir Why You Little 37,126]

Yeah, it was ABOUT CARLTON TANKING IN THE GAME YOU THINK WE TANKED IN THE PREVIOUS SEASON.

Gardner was gone by the middle of the season.

And as Viney12 pointed out in the 'Can't wait' thread - Gardner mentioned talking to Craig Cameron before leaving the game.

Craig Cameron left the club in 07!!

Do you remember any talk about as tanking under Danners? Or Bomber Riley when he beat Carlton twice and the Bulldogs?

Gardner shouldn't have spoken, because he either misspoke or lied and now we deal with the damage.

Great.

You sound shocked that this issue has been raised rpfc. I have said before, it was always going to become a rod around our neck because we were not strong enough to cope with the ramifications of it, unlike a power club.

We should have taken the North attitude. Hard work=slow progress

We took the quick fix and now we are worse off onfield.

Gardner has said nothing that has not been discussed.

[rpfc 28,777]

You sound shocked that this issue has been raised rpfc. I have said before, it was always going to become a rod around our neck because we were not strong enough to cope with the ramifications of it, unlike a power club.

We should have taken the North attitude. Hard work=slow progress

We took the quick fix and now we are worse off onfield.

Gardner has said nothing that has not been discussed.

You don't want to comprehend my posts because they take away the fuel of your argument.

You can be against what we did and you can argue that it burnt whatever culture we had.

But don't let your arguments be manipulated by those with more destructive thoughts wyl, they are using your predisposition to extend falsehoods and undeserved controversy for their own ends that are not aligned with yours at all.

Gardner did not see tanking, his 'story' has more holes than our list, and you shouldn't take him seriously at all.

[diesel 420]

Gardner did not see tanking, his 'story' has more holes than our list, and you shouldn't take him seriously at all.

Gardners comments are just self serving. He left a huge debt which he had no idea how to eradicate and his board appointed the wrong coach.

Edited August 1, 2012 by diesel

[Sir Why You Little 37,126]

You don't want to comprehend my posts because they take away the fuel of your argument.

You can be against what we did and you can argue that it burnt whatever culture we had.

But don't let your arguments be manipulated by those with more destructive thoughts wyl, they are using your predisposition to extend falsehoods and undeserved controversy for their own ends that are not aligned with yours at all.

Gardner did not see tanking, his 'story' has more holes than our list, and you shouldn't take him seriously at all.

I have no agenda with Gardner. He left us in a terrible state.

But i have no problems with his words on this issue. He spoke about what we all saw. No point disputing it.

Lets deal with it and move on. I am tired of the 186 ghost.

[1 red eye 1 blue eye 771]

So Fremantle tanked when they rested their 10 best players against the Hawks in 2010?

Pretty sure Freo rested those players leading into the finals, worked too, they beat Hawthorn a couple of weeks later.

[DeeZee 7,445]

Blind Freddy could see that Brock's mum has aids!

[titan_uranus 25,043]

The interesting part of the debate is whether we're concerned about our actions or their consequence and purpose.

What we did, if true, was to rest players or play new players in new positions. Whether or not the purpose was to try to be less competitive, or to ensure we had a stronger list in the future, the end result was that we weren't as competitive as maybe we could have been.

But as many are already pointing out, the same thing happens in other guises. What did Collingwood do last week against GWS? They intentionally played a weaker side than they could have. The purpose for doing so was different, but the conduct was the same, and I'm sure the consequence was that they were less competitive than they could have been.

In the end, what we did is done by lots of other clubs in lots of other ways. We had a valid reason for doing so, more than one in fact, as do clubs like Collingwood when they rest players with one eye on the finals.

People should relax. It's going to keep happening no matter what.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Pretty sure Freo rested those players leading into the finals, worked too, they beat Hawthorn a couple of weeks later.

Yes, but in the game where players were rested they got flogged because winning wasn't their top priority in that game.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Pretty sure Freo rested those players leading into the finals, worked too, they beat Hawthorn a couple of weeks later.

Yep - and Hawthorn rested quite a few last year in the final game @ Tassie? They had B graders in against a bottom team and won by a smallish margin.

Nope here it is - against the GCS @Carrara, won by 9 points.

Household names....Cheney, Bruce, Ladson, Paul Johnson, Thomas Murphy....

[daisycutter 29,738]

The Turtle is not content to just enjoy the Carlton Daft

But he has to have a bit of Melbourne Bitter too

Dog

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Very good DC.

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/carlton-blues/ratten-interviewed-over-tanking-20120801-23elr.html

Now where will it stop. Who's next?

Brock must pleasing his current employer alot atm. He is coming out this looking dumber than when he went into the interview.

[nutbean 8,838]

What is he saying that you disagree with? We all clapped and cheered when it happened.

We all know what happened and can draw conclusions - there are those at one of the scale who think we went all out to lose and all from the top to the bottom were part of it - to those at the other end of the spectrum who would agree that winning wasnt the top priority and certain personnel movements were made that pointed to that.

But an ex President who comes out with statements that cannot be beneficial to the club, in fact harmful is a person who has is thinking of himself and his removal rather than the club.There are enough outsiders whacking us without the need for one who professes love for the club to do the same.

[stinga81 210]

OK

But the problem is how do you define tanking - I don't think you can

Player promotion?

Player demotion?

Playing in new position?

Slow rotations?

Benching players?

Early operations?

General soreness?

Resting players?

Failure to tag a player?

Giving players KPIs which impact their natural game?

and the list goes on and on

the only thing I think they can do is reduce the predictability of draft (tanking) rewards

True there is not really any defining criteria they could mark it against , but if you get more peanuts that like claiming some sort of moral high ground like McLean did than we could be entering some pain.

[nutbean 8,838]

I sent a polite but pointed email to the CEO of Grey Group asking him to pass on my email to his chairman - thank you for boosting your own ego and self importance by making comments that can only hurt the club when any other ex President would have shown support for their club and not try to add to the damage.

I have no idea if it will get to him but it made me feel better.

Postscript- the CEO emailed me back and told me Gardiner is no longer Chairman. doh!

Edited August 1, 2012 by nutbean

[Hiram Cowfreak 78]

It was an unforgettable last quarter that day against the tigers....the irony of Jordie McMahon kicking that goal after the siren was delicious.

We have come out of this so well.....losing Scully and gaining the draft picks is a huge win for us, and exposing Scully for the greedy runt that he is makes it all the better.

And now Brock shows us again what an intellectual desert he truly is.

We are so much better off!

[olisik 4,060]

Very good DC.

http://www.theage.co...0801-23elr.html

Now where will it stop. Who's next?

Brock must pleasing his current employer alot atm. He is coming out this looking dumber than when he went into the interview.

I honestly think Brock just finished his career. He is uncontracted, who in their right mind besides Sheedy would want him on their list now. With what he has said either he has to be sanctioned or the MFC. Him for making up nonsence or the MFC for tanking. My money is on it that Brock is the one to take the hit

[Flying Cloud 152]

Cameron left at the end of '07.

Gardner had half a season with Bailey.

Just listended to the SEN interview with Gardiner again. When asked if had he stayed, would he have allowed what ever was going on to happen he replied -

"In the whole time I was there, I don’t think....... in fact I am 100% sure Neil Daniher and I had never ever done anything other than put out a team that actually tried to go out and win....

He does did not say that he didn't have any conversation with Bailey about the matter, and as McQ said he had half a season with him, and in fact presumably he sat down with bailey at the start of his tenure and specifically discussed how things were going to done.

[John Crow Batty 8,879]

Just listended to the SEN interview with Gardiner again. When asked if had he stayed, would he have allowed what ever was going on to happen he replied -

"In the whole time I was there, I don’t think....... in fact I am 100% sure Neil Daniher and I had never ever done anything other than put out a team that actually tried to go out and win....

He does did not say that he didn't have any conversation with Bailey about the matter, and as McQ said he had half a season with him, and in fact presumably he sat down with bailey at the start of his tenure and specifically discussed how things were going to done.

I believe Bailey was hired on the ludicrous premise that we had a viable list and still were finals prospects. Tanking would have the furtherest thoughts on their mind.

[heartbeatstrue 57]

The hypocrisy in all this is astonishing.

Having personally endured the Kreuzer Cup in 2007 (Rd 22) there's no doubt that pathetic game was blatant tanking by Carlton.

It is the AFL who created the situation with their rules on draft picks, and they must investigate and sanction Carltank in exactly the same way as they might do for MFC. Then as others have pointed out, the result of playing players out of position or resting top players in a dead rubber is not much different.

The game against Richmond in Rd 18, 2009 - when the final siren went, we were ahead. So but for Jordie McMahon (love him), we were even failures at tanking (can you tank and still win? Presumably the charge must be altered to "attempting" to tank!)

Brock McLean hasn't learned how to keep his big mouth shut. Bailey has already admitted to deliberately playing players out of position for future prospects of the MFC (back on 3 Aug 2011) and this was investigated by the AFL who found nothing to warrant further action. McLean hasn't added anything new, but it's field day for certain journalists who love sticking the boots in Melb.

And if we're looking for scapegoats, we haven't exatly been brilliantly coached this year. It's the administration of the club that has got us where we are now and shows little sign of getting us out anytime soon.

[Lucifers Hero 40,361]

If Brock doesn't have real evidence wouldn't it be a delicious irony if he had to apologise to the MFC!!

[My TD 156]

I am tired of the 186 ghost.

I'm tired of you trotting out 186 every second post.

Time to give yourself a slap.

[45HG 1,559]

I honestly cannot believe this is even a story.