THE WOOD

[Whispering_Jack 30,198]

Magner Omitted or injured?

Had a feeling I saw him at a specialist shoulder surgeon this morning.

He wasn't selected for Casey so that makes him a candidate for mystery injury of the week.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

my understanding is Cook was taken as a bit of a project player....obviously still very much a project in progress

Pick 12 is too valuable to waste on a project player; maybe pick 35 to 45 in a shallow draft.

[Neeld Help 7]

Re Cook/Fitzpatrick The argument Leigh Brown makes in regard to Cook and Fitzpatrick is that they couldnt run out a game. Why then dont they give Cook a taste by using him as a sub. By then the heats off the game and there would be great upside for his confidence and the supporters if he bagged a few.

[rpfc 28,482]

Pick 12 is too valuable to waste on a project player; maybe pick 35 to 45 in a shallow draft.

I know what you are saying but I just feel that the best picks should be reserved for the players that will serve up the best footy in their prime 23-30 (ish), and if Prendergast and co. thought that was Cook then that is fine.

Someone made a point yesterday about 'hiding behind project players' but that is a terrible point as Prendergast is being eviscerated FOR his project selections at 11 (Gysberts) and 12 (Cook).

With that being said I think that there are some flippant rules for recruitment I can give:

Draft midfieders.

Trade for key forwards.

Rookie list ruckmen.

[rpfc 28,482]

Re Cook/Fitzpatrick The argument Leigh Brown makes in regard to Cook and Fitzpatrick is that they couldnt run out a game. Why then dont they give Cook a taste by using him as a sub. By then the heats off the game and there would be great upside for his confidence and the supporters if he bagged a few.

You don't use talls as subs because they provide no run.

[beelzebub 23,379]

You don't use talls as subs because they provide no run.

sorry no points for that ...bit of a no brainer ...lol B)

[IRW 1,387]

my understanding is Cook was taken as a bit of a project player....obviously still very much a project in progress

back in the good (read sensible) old days of 1sts and reserves teams players would play for YEARS in the twos before they were considered ready for promotion and as a result they the skills, fitness, maturity and hunger to be successful.

Just saying thats all.

[Arrow 1,257]

He wasn't selected for Casey so that makes him a candidate for mystery injury of the week.

When Casey and Melbourne play the same day one player doesn't play Casey to be an emergency at Etihad in case someone is injured in the warm up. Magner was two weeks ago and I'll presume he will be again on Sat. No mystery injury

[beelzebub 23,379]

back in the good (read sensible) old days of 1sts and reserves teams players would play for YEARS in the twos before they were considered ready for promotion and as a result they the skills, fitness, maturity and hunger to be successful.

Just saying thats all.

I totally agree. Im not fazed that Cook isnt selected yet. SO many , I feel, make the same mistake in thinking that you simply draft a kid, doll him up in a r/b guernsey and its on to the G you go. . ( many may wish to book mark this notation come referencing anything to do with draft picks too..lol ).

Id expect him to possibly start getting a gig through 013...but not a regular.

so many expect overnight magic, it just doesnt work that way. Agree with you IRW

[jnrmac 20,097]

Junior maybe you should follow the example of Chook. That's passion for you.

What? This bit? ..... "a game against a team we can't beat at the best of times at a stadium we can never win at."

[rjay 24,939]

I know what you are saying but I just feel that the best picks should be reserved for the players that will serve up the best footy in their prime 23-30 (ish), and if Prendergast and co. thought that was Cook then that is fine.

Someone made a point yesterday about 'hiding behind project players' but that is a terrible point as Prendergast is being eviscerated FOR his project selections at 11 (Gysberts) and 12 (Cook).

With that being said I think that there are some flippant rules for recruitment I can give:

Draft midfieders.

Trade for key forwards.

Rookie list ruckmen.

I know you were quoting someone else RP but I don't think Gys was a project player he's just an often injured player.

[jnrmac 20,097]

I know what you are saying but I just feel that the best picks should be reserved for the players that will serve up the best footy in their prime 23-30 (ish), and if Prendergast and co. thought that was Cook then that is fine.

Someone made a point yesterday about 'hiding behind project players' but that is a terrible point as Prendergast is being eviscerated FOR his project selections at 11 (Gysberts) and 12 (Cook).

I wouldn't describe either of them as project players. Cook was an u18 All Australian CHF- not sure how that makes him a PP?? As for Gysberts he was perhaps drafted a bit higher than those "in the know" predicted but that doesn't make him a PP either. LJ is a PP.

[beelzebub 23,379]

I know you were quoting someone else RP but I don't think Gys was a project player he's just an often injured player.

I dont htink he was/is either. He came on the scene quite quickly , didnt quite set the world on fire , but certainly turned the gas up a bit. . Hes had a bugger of a run with injuries. Keep in mind he was a DOUBLE Rising star nominated player. He did well in voitng and ajudging even in games we lost ( a few to choose from huh !! lol )

This is one player Im looking forward to regaining fitness and a good preseason before lighting up again. Go Gys !!

[beelzebub 23,379]

I wouldn't describe either of them as project players. Cook was an u18 All Australian CHF- not sure how that makes him a PP?? As for Gysberts he was perhaps drafted a bit higher than those "in the know" predicted but that doesn't make him a PP either. LJ is a PP.

I think Cook is a sorta project.. The lead time was always going to be greater by a country mile.. Gysberts was a near starter from the go

LJ.... unique catergory

[rpfc 28,482]

I know you were quoting someone else RP but I don't think Gys was a project player he's just an often injured player.

I wouldn't describe either of them as project players. Cook was an u18 All Australian CHF- not sure how that makes him a PP?? As for Gysberts he was perhaps drafted a bit higher than those "in the know" predicted but that doesn't make him a PP either. LJ is a PP.

I think Cook is a sorta project.. The lead time was always going to be greater by a country mile.. Gysberts was a near starter from the go

LJ.... unique catergory

Guys when you draft sticks, you are drafting blokes that need to built up - in my mind they are projects.

And considering Gysberts also has an awfully limited tank - he was/is a project.

[beelzebub 23,379]

Building the tank is different from getting a player to afl standard in the sense of able to play and contribute. Gys not project, Cook is.

Edited July 26, 2012 by belzebub59

[Range Rover 1,935]

Someone made a point yesterday about 'hiding behind project players' but that is a terrible point as Prendergast is being eviscerated FOR his project selections at 11 (Gysberts) and 12 (Cook).

I've made this point before but I think it was RobbieF yesterday. I still think its salient. It's just that Prendergast didn't count on 186 and the sweeping change that wrought. Neeld saw through his ruse straight away IMO and rightly showed him the door. Thank Christ.

[cowboy_from_hell 2,390]

Building the tank is different from getting a player to afl standard in the sense of able to play and contribute. Gys not project, Cook is.

How long does it take to build some sort of tank? I know our FD has been poor in the past but even they would have known you need endurance. I don't expect Gys to have top of the line fitness at this stage but i'd expect enough to get you a gig in the AFL.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I know what you are saying but I just feel that the best picks should be reserved for the players that will serve up the best footy in their prime 23-30 (ish), and if Prendergast and co. thought that was Cook then that is fine.

Someone made a point yesterday about 'hiding behind project players' but that is a terrible point as Prendergast is being eviscerated FOR his project selections at 11 (Gysberts) and 12 (Cook).

With that being said I think that there are some flippant rules for recruitment I can give:

Draft midfieders.

Trade for key forwards.

Rookie list ruckmen.

Firstly it was me that said recruiters can hide behind Project Players; well at least some supporters will allow them to, I don't. I expect a player will at least show, in the first year of his contract, that he has the skills and capacity to play the game at the highest level, I don't think Cook did.

Having nice hands and being a nice mover doesn't cut it as far as I'm concerned, he has to show he has the mental and physical toughness and the desire to play at the top level and I don't believe he has. He may turn out to be a good AFL PLayer but I just can't see it also his weight is a problem, look at Morton he's been with us for a few now and he's still underweight.

It's a cop out for a recruiter to say that his first selection in the draft won't be capable of playing for 3 or so years until his body develops especially when we've drafted 2 tall underweight kids in the previous 3 drafts and the club is crying out for midfielders, midfielders, midfielders.

[rpfc 28,482]

Firstly it was me that said recruiters can hide behind Project Players; well at least some supporters will allow them to, I don't. I expect a player will at least show, in the first year of his contract, that he has the skills and capacity to play the game at the highest level, I don't think Cook did.

Having nice hands and being a nice mover doesn't cut it as far as I'm concerned, he has to show he has the mental and physical toughness and the desire to play at the top level and I don't believe he has. He may turn out to be a good AFL PLayer but I just can't see it also his weight is a problem, look at Morton he's been with us for a few now and he's still underweight.

It's a cop out for a recruiter to say that his first selection in the draft won't be capable of playing for 3 or so years until his body develops especially when we've drafted 2 tall underweight kids in the previous 3 drafts and the club is crying out for midfielders, midfielders, midfielders.

I don't disagree, but I don't want to give the impression that top picks are required to give immediate returns when they certainly don't have to, to be considered a good pick.

With regards to Cook, you have your opinion of the kid and from most reports that I have heard you are near the mark. But I just don't think that 'hiding behind project players' is as good a tactic for a recruiter as some would believe...

Edited July 27, 2012 by rpfc

[Pates 9,660]

I'm glad that we've stopped with the idea of gifting games to players who aren't ready. Gysberts I'm surprised still isn't there but I really hope he will be soon, Cook I reckon will be given a game at the tail end of the season just to give him a taste and to wet his appetite for 2013. I imagine Neeld and Brown are having regular meetings with Cook to discuss what he needs to do and what their plans are with him. Persistence must be the key with him.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I totally agree. Im not fazed that Cook isnt selected yet. SO many , I feel, make the same mistake in thinking that you simply draft a kid, doll him up in a r/b guernsey and its on to the G you go. . ( many may wish to book mark this notation come referencing anything to do with draft picks too..lol ).

Id expect him to possibly start getting a gig through 013...but not a regular.

so many expect overnight magic, it just doesnt work that way. Agree with you IRW

I'd expect him to get a game, if and when he's good enough and I have no problem with players doing their apprenticeship in the magoos, but in this day and age there is no room on the list for players that may take 5 years to come good, they call them list cloggers, the lists are too small and the pressure to succeed is too great.

Hawthorn's Tuck, played well over 100 games in the reserves before he became a regular but the number on the list then was probably over 50 and there was a dedicated seconds side, we don't have that now and most players get about 3 to 4 years to make it or they are cut.

[KC from Casey 7,073]

When Casey and Melbourne play the same day one player doesn't play Casey to be an emergency at Etihad in case someone is injured in the warm up. Magner was two weeks ago and I'll presume he will be again on Sat. No mystery injury

I think you'll find that Bate is the main emergency which raises the question why Magner should miss out if he isn't injured.

[thaipantsman 180]

THE WOOD by The Oracle

There's a term in sport that applies when one participant always seems to come out on top of another. It's called "having the wood on your opponent" and I can add without fear or trepidation that the saying definitely applies to North Melbourne's recent record against Melbourne.

On Saturday afternoon the Kangaroos will be aiming to make it ten wins in a row against the Demons. They will be assisted by the fact that the game is being held on their home territory at Etihad Stadium where they hold a winning record of 5-0 at a place where Melbourne has lost its last thirteen encounters against all comers. On that basis, you would have to say that they not only have the wood on their opponents but they have the entire bloody forest over them!

When Melbourne last won a contest between these clubs (in 2006), David Neitz was still at his peak and the big feller monstered the Kangaroo defence. Nathan Jones' career was in its infancy and Neale Daniher was still safely ensconced in the coach's chair with his side on its way to taking the mantle of the AFL's leading Victorian club (that was the year when the semi finals were contested by four non Victorians).

But it's not only a poor record in its recent games against this week's opponent that's dogging the Demons - it's also the current form of the respective clubs that is in steep contrast. Since North Melbourne's big defeat at the hands of Hawthorn early last month, the club has undergone a massive revival in its form with a narrow loss to the West Coast Eagles the only blemish. This has lifted the club from a position of crisis with the president under attack, the CEO handing in his resignation and rumblings of a major power struggle to a situation where the team now sits in the top eight and is looking forward to September.

Meanwhile, September is the only thing Melbourne is looking forward to as well but only to the sound of the final siren at Paterson's Stadium on the first or second day of the month to sound the end of yet another season of disasters, distractions and injuries. For most involved with the club, that sound simply cannot come soon enough.

The main distraction for the club this week has been the committal hearing in Alice Springs for Liam Jurrah. I can't comment on the outcome but for heaven's sake, on what I've read of the evidence given by the few prosecution witnesses who bothered to turn up, the mind boggles. The law is an ass and even our legal system is conspiring against our club in this rubbish season. Little wonder that we want it to end so soon.

Another major contrast between the two protagonists this week is their injury lists. With Hamish McIntosh on the road to recovery (McIntosh to make VFL comeback for 'Roos) and likely to play in the VFL and two others big chances of passing their respective fitness tests, the Kangaroos' only missing player will be first year player Tom Curran.

On the other hand, the Demon's have failed their health check very badly in recent times. Clint Bartram (knee), Jamie Bennell (knee), Mitch Clark (foot), Aaron Davey (foot) and Max Gawn (knee) are all out for the season while youngster Rory Taggert (back) is out indefinitely. Jurrah injured his ankle eleven weeks ago and is still supposed to be two weeks away from playing. On top of that a number of players including Jack Watts and Jordie McKenzie face fitness tests and then we have the mystery injury of the week factor which regularly sees players missing games after not even appearing on the club's official injury lists. As the health check article states, "n October 2011, Melbourne could not have imagined it would have virtually no Jurrah, little Davey and no Sylvia early. When it lost its shining light, new recruit Clark after round 12, the disastrous picture was complete."

That's where we stand at the moment with Brad Scott and his twenty-two merry men holding a very large block of wood over Mark Neeld's head as he and his medical team work furiously to heal the wounded.

THE GAME

North Melbourne v Melbourne on Saturday 28th July 2012 at Etihad Stadium at 2.10 pm

HEAD TO HEAD

Overall North Melbourne 68 wins Melbourne 83 wins 1 draw

At Etihad Stadium North Melbourne 5 wins Melbourne 0 wins

Since 2000 North Melbourne 12 wins Melbourne 7 wins

The Coaches Scott 0 wins Neeld 0 wins

MEDIA

TV - Fox Sports Channel at 2:00pm (live)

RADIO - SEN 3AW

THE BETTING

North Melbourne to win $1.09 Melbourne to win $7.50

LAST TIME THEY MET

North Melbourne 19.10.124 defeated Melbourne 12.11.83 at Etihad Stadium in Round 8, 2012

The Demons were coming off a massive win at the G against Adelaide and started like a house on fire scoring six of the first goals to lead by 31 points in time on of the first term.

Then, as often happened with this team, the wheels inexplicably fell off. Every possible calamity befell the team from injuries, loose play, poor execution of skills, bad bounces and even worse umpiring decisions including a "dive" that was paid to Brent Harvey that would have done Greg Louganis proud at the 84 Summer Olympics.

MILESTONE Congratulations to Brad Green who plays his 250th game. The 2010 best and fairest and former skipper will join David Neitz (306 matches), Robert Flower (272), Adem Yze (271), Jim Stynes (264), Steven Febey (258), Brian Dixon (252) and James McDonald (251) as the only other Demons to play 250 games.

THE TEAMS

NORTH MELBOURNE

Backs Scott McMahon Scott Thompson Michael Firrito

Half backs Shaun Atley Nathan Grima Jamie Macmillan

Centreline Ryan Bastinac Daniel Wells Ben Cunnington

Half forwards Leigh Adams Robert Tarrant Samuel Wright

Forwards Lachlan Hansen Drew Petrie Lindsay Thomas

Followers Todd Goldstein Andrew Swallow Brent Harvey

Interchange Liam Anthony Matt Campbell Sam Gibson Kieran Harper

Emergencies Cruize Garlett Aaron Mullett Cameron Richardson

No change

MELBOURNE

Backs Daniel Nicholson James Sellar Tom McDonald

Half backs Joel Macdonald James Frawley Colin Garland

Centreline Rohan Bail Jack Grimes Jack Trengove

Half forwards Colin Sylvia Stef Martin Lynden Dunn

Forwards Neville Jetta Jared Rivers Brad Green

Followers Jake Spencer Jordie McKenzie Nathan Jones

Interchange Sam Blease Jeremy Howe Brent Moloney James Strauss

Emergencies Matthew Bate Jordan Gysberts James Magner

In Jordie McKenzie Brent Moloney James Sellar

Out Tom Couch James Magner Ricky Petterd

THE DECK CHAIRS

One thing that puzzles me about Melbourne's team selection as the club meanders its way to a shameful end to an awful season is the reluctance of selectors to go all out with youth.

The catch cry in football when all is lost and the season is prematurely over is usually one of "going for youth". Alternatively, you go for youth when your list is decimated by injury or suspension as was the case last week when Carlton selected three first gamers to play the Western Bulldogs. From all reports the trio, two of them plucked out of the Northern Blues reserves from a week earlier, all acquitted themselves well in Carlton's win.

Melbourne, on the other hand, with an injury list that matches Carlton's appears reluctant to make bold selection moves and instead, has decided this week to move the deck chairs around. The result is that, apart from the compulsory return of Jordie McKenzie, two players in Brent Moloney and James Sellar (both available for selection last week) come into the side. I have nothing against either player but, given that Casey had a bye last week and neither of them played anywhere, what did they do to justify inclusion this week but not last? It makes no sense unless you're determined to simply move the deckchairs around and go through the motions.

The problem is that in this game we have one team, sick, unhealthy, out of form and rudderless, going through the motions waiting for the season to end and another determined to cement its place in the real September action. The Roos need to win games and bolster their percentage and this hardly bodes well for the Demons.

North Melbourne is in a position where a number of its stars are shining at the moment. Todd Goldstein should dominate the big men duels in the absence of Mark Jamar in the opposing ruck. I doubt that his replacement, Jake Spencer will have happy memories of a previous encounter with North at Etihad when he produced what looked like an air shot at goal that dribbled desultorily off the side and bottom of his boot.

The Kangaroos have key forward Drew Petrie in career-best goal kicking form with seven in each of their past two games against Carlton and Richmond. He'll be a handfull for the Demon defenders, one of who will be grateful that the coach persists in experimenting with the idea of playing a backman up forward.

Then there are Daniel Wells. Andrew Swallow and evergreen Brent Harvey who will run and spread all day creating havoc among Melbourne's pedestrian midfield.

The end result will not look pretty as the Kangaroos take full advantage of that enormous piece of wood they have over the Demons.

North Melbourne by 75 points.

If North win by 75 points then it's Tick Tock Mark Neeld.

Mark Neeld is not under pressure to TANK as was Dean Bailey.

He plays older players in a bit to bolster his Win Loss ratio in the likelihood of any head to head comparison with Bailey.

Give the Young Guys a run! What's to lose?

[thaipantsman 180]

I think you'll find that Bate is the main emergency which raises the question why Magner should miss out if he isn't injured.

I hope Magner plays! At least he has a genuine crack.