Toumpas v Stringer v Wines

[deelusions from afar 1,619]

I know Terry Wallace doesn't have the greatest reputation going round but had some interesting comments on Melbourne's upcoming draft / trade period. He said we have a great opportunity to completely turn around the club in much the same way that St Kilda was able to do when they brought in Hamill, Gehrig and co while drafting a number of good kids.

He said GWS wouldn't be interested in drafting Viney (not sure what he bases that on) so we should try and do a deal with GC - maybe trade pick 11 or 12 (whatever the comp pick is) and a Sylvia or Moloney for Josh Caddy (if he's still wanting to come home) and an agreement for them not to go for Viney with their first selection.

If we got Cloke as well it would left with

Pick 3 (Trompas? Grundy?)

Pick 4 (Stringer? Wines?)

Josh Caddy

Jack Viney

Travis Cloke

That would make a difference next year!

[dee-luded 2,958]

Your only mention of Heppell in the Dyson Heppell thread was a question to Jose.

"Looks like an attacking medium defender/flanker. How's he do man on man stopping an opponent?" You asked that on Sep 6 so you hadn't made your mind up early in the TAC finals he was dominating. So you jumped on board late when he had put his name into top 10 calculations, congratulations.

All of us armchair recruiting experts get a couple right every now and again, it's only the dee-luded among us who who convince themselves that this makes them some kind of an expert.

I've never called myself an expert, & to the contrary didn't really believe I had any Idea, until gradually over the last few years when I seemed to be picking players who have gone on strongly.

And I haven't put myself forward at any stage as an expert in recruitment. But seem have an eye for it, & if taught by other recruiters could probably develop it.

But, back to the real question we're all interested in, about not messing up our early picks.

I'll ask you a question, you sound like you'd pass on Toumpas or Stringer, or Whitfield or Grundy, if they presented at our pick 1st pick?

Who do rate ahead of Viney then, instead of spending your time claiming I'm some expert,,, then trying to discover ways of discrediting me, (as if you have some ulterior motive, to grab Jack first, instead of saying what it is you've seen in him with your eyes, that puts him ahead of Toumpas, Whitfield, Grundy, Stringer, Wines, Mayes to name a few).

Why is he ahead of these players?

[furious d 447]

I've never called myself an expert, & to the contrary didn't really believe I had any Idea, until gradually over the last few years when I seemed to be picking players who have gone on strongly.

And I haven't put myself forward at any stage as an expert in recruitment. But seem have an eye for it, & if taught by other recruiters could probably develop it.

But, back to the real question we're all interested in, about not messing up our early picks.

I'll ask you a question, you sound like you'd pass on Toumpas or Stringer, or Whitfield or Grundy, if they presented at our pick 1st pick?

Who do rate ahead of Viney then, instead of spending your time claiming I'm some expert,,, then trying to discover ways of discrediting me, (as if you have some ulterior motive, to grab Jack first, instead of saying what it is you've seen in him with your eyes, that puts him ahead of Toumpas, Whitfield, Grundy, Stringer, Wines, Mayes to name a few).

Why is he ahead of these players?

My whole point has been that's it's still too early to tell. Heppell for example was considered a late first round pick at this stage of his draft year, he had a brilliant second half of the TAC season and starred during the finals series. His stocks rose considerably during September and he was talked up as a possible top 5. I expect that with such an even group in the mix from pick 2-10 some will rise and some will slide before draft time. The remaining games, finals and the draft camp will all have an effect on where these kids are rated going into the draft.

To answer your question about Viney, I have only seen him play 4 times but I've liked what I've seen. Last year I thought Viney was similar to Toby Greene, only athletically superior in pretty much every way and a bit harder at it again. Greene has been a star for GWS this year and I believe Jack will have that sort of instant impact, which is something our midfield needs desperately. I agree with Ben, his kicking is good but lacks penetration, not a big problem for an inside mid and he has good acceleration away from the contest. Knightmare mentioned that he had never seen any testing for Jack so his speed and endurance results will be interesting. Whether I'd pass on him or not is not a decision I see any need to make now. The draft isn't until November.

On the other players you mention, I really like Toumpas and his season being over helps our chances of getting him imo. He's a good size , quick and most importantly is an excellent kick.

Whitfield will be gone by our pick but I'd grab him in an instant if he was available, can't see it happening.

Grundy is the interesting one, goal kicking, high possession ruckmen don't grow on trees. If the recruiting department think he could hold down a spot in the forward line as well as ruck I'd grab him.

Mayes is my smokey for our early picks, all class but will take some time to be ready to run in the midfield, can play half forward in the meantime but we have 36 half forwards on the list already.

Wines I have slightly behind Viney, but that's just me. Oliver was better than an 8kg lighter and underdone Viney in the champs but imo Jack is the better player.

Stringer doesn't interest me at all at this stage. Too big a risk coming off the broken leg and I think he'll slide unless he finishes the year very strongly. Could be there at 13 and I'd consider him then.

I'm pretty confident we can get Jack in the second round, but being a Melbourne supporter I'm naturally nervous and worry that things might change. Jack's injury was a godsend for us and ensured his underwhelming champs, giving blokes like Wines a chance to shine. I hope we limit Jack's exposure to the VFL from here because the only thing that will put him back into top 3 calculations is doing well against men, especially in finals.

All I'm saying is keep an open mind until October, that's when the draft talk gets serious.

[deelusions from afar 1,619]

I don't profess to have any specialist knowledge about the draft prospects... I read the reports watch a few games etc but basically I'm in the dark.

However, one thing that has got me thinking is that some players seem to come on (or fall away) late in their draft year and the closer this happens to the draft the greater the weight is placed on these developments. I say this as according to many of the "experts" - whether it be Emma Quale or Knightmare or whoever, our drafting (at the time) has been considered to be pretty spot on. Obviously the Watts - Nik Nat one would be contentious whichever way we went - but picking Blease and Strauss and even when we picked Scully, Trengove, Gys and Tappscott noone said we'd made the wrong call anywhere.

And then you have players like Darling (who admittedly was overlooked by everyone) despite being touted as a no.1 pick a year out from the draft.

So I guess what I'm asking is whether others also think that recent form prior to the draft (a good national championship game, TAC cup final or SANFL / VFL final etc) might be looked at too closely while the rest of the info we have on these players leading up to this is thrown out?

A star is a star - if they've had a couple of bad games when tagged heavily or had a year off due to injury (assuming they can make a full recovery) won't change that.

[rjay 24,021]

I know Terry Wallace doesn't have the greatest reputation going round but had some interesting comments on Melbourne's upcoming draft / trade period. He said we have a great opportunity to completely turn around the club in much the same way that St Kilda was able to do when they brought in Hamill, Gehrig and co while drafting a number of good kids.

He said GWS wouldn't be interested in drafting Viney (not sure what he bases that on) so we should try and do a deal with GC - maybe trade pick 11 or 12 (whatever the comp pick is) and a Sylvia or Moloney for Josh Caddy (if he's still wanting to come home) and an agreement for them not to go for Viney with their first selection.

If we got Cloke as well it would left with

Pick 3 (Trompas? Grundy?)

Pick 4 (Stringer? Wines?)

Josh Caddy

Jack Viney

Travis Cloke

That would make a difference next year!

I was interested in his take as well, at least he has put a position and one that's positive unlike Denham who just bags everything.

[jurrahcane 70]

update ... Jake Stringer was in the best for Bendigo (vs Geelong) in the VFL senior last week. Played as the 23rd man. If he is fit and firing, he could be the key to our success. This kid has real talent. Picks 3 and 4, Toumpas and Stringer.

[Whispering_Jack 28,089]

Does anyone know what happened to that goal kicking indigenous footballer from NW WA who created a sensation in the Darwin comp. over summer. Waylen Manson?

Back playing local footy in the Kimberley. He came to Perth in June for the Landmark Country Footy Championships, but apparently went straight back home after showing a bit. The view is that it's unlikely that he would leave home to have another crack at making it onto an AFL list.

[olisik 4,060]

Wonder if wed be keen on Kristian Jaksch at pick 13 if we dont get our power forward

[jurrahcane 70]

Agreed. Kristian Jaksch will be a very good player. But for me its mids all the way in 2012 draft.

[dee-luded 2,958]

My whole point has been that's it's still too early to tell. Heppell for example was considered a late first round pick at this stage of his draft year, he had a brilliant second half of the TAC season and starred during the finals series. His stocks rose considerably during September and he was talked up as a possible top 5. I expect that with such an even group in the mix from pick 2-10 some will rise and some will slide before draft time. The remaining games, finals and the draft camp will all have an effect on where these kids are rated going into the draft.

To answer your question about Viney, I have only seen him play 4 times but I've liked what I've seen. Last year I thought Viney was similar to Toby Greene, only athletically superior in pretty much every way and a bit harder at it again. Greene has been a star for GWS this year and I believe Jack will have that sort of instant impact, which is something our midfield needs desperately. I agree with Ben, his kicking is good but lacks penetration, not a big problem for an inside mid and he has good acceleration away from the contest. Knightmare mentioned that he had never seen any testing for Jack so his speed and endurance results will be interesting. Whether I'd pass on him or not is not a decision I see any need to make now. The draft isn't until November.

On the other players you mention, I really like Toumpas and his season being over helps our chances of getting him imo. He's a good size , quick and most importantly is an excellent kick.

Whitfield will be gone by our pick but I'd grab him in an instant if he was available, can't see it happening.

Grundy is the interesting one, goal kicking, high possession ruckmen don't grow on trees. If the recruiting department think he could hold down a spot in the forward line as well as ruck I'd grab him.

Mayes is my smokey for our early picks, all class but will take some time to be ready to run in the midfield, can play half forward in the meantime but we have 36 half forwards on the list already.

Wines I have slightly behind Viney, but that's just me. Oliver was better than an 8kg lighter and underdone Viney in the champs but imo Jack is the better player.

Stringer doesn't interest me at all at this stage. Too big a risk coming off the broken leg and I think he'll slide unless he finishes the year very strongly. Could be there at 13 and I'd consider him then.

I'm pretty confident we can get Jack in the second round, but being a Melbourne supporter I'm naturally nervous and worry that things might change. Jack's injury was a godsend for us and ensured his underwhelming champs, giving blokes like Wines a chance to shine. I hope we limit Jack's exposure to the VFL from here because the only thing that will put him back into top 3 calculations is doing well against men, especially in finals.

All I'm saying is keep an open mind until October, that's when the draft talk gets serious.

I'm in agreeance with everything you've said except for using pick 3 for JViney.

For me its Toumpas/Whitfield + Grundy/Wines/Mayes/O'Rourke with our top 2 picks.

JV @ our 2nd R'nder or in 12 - 24 months time.

Call me principled, but thats just how I'd play it. If they nominate Jack, they get take him, then one will slide to us & we get to use all first 4 picks on talent. And fight for Jack, over the next little while.

[Guest José Mourinho]

I really like Mayes.

Just got a feeling about him.

Could slide to around pick 8, but end up the best of the lot.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

I really like Mayes.

Just got a feeling about him.

Could slide to around pick 8, but end up the best of the lot.

I like the fact that he is a pretty complete midfielder Jose, but the icing is that he has some of the best disposal in the draft from all reports, which is what we need

[Guest José Mourinho]

Great disposal is his strength.

I think the icing is his nose for goals, ability to play up forward, burst of speed and overhead marking.

To add those qualities to a classy mid capable of finding lots of the pill and using it with pinpoint precision...

He may not be a big bodied inside mid, but he has the height and his body can be built up.

The sky is the limit...

Options, options, options.

Gotta love a superdraft!

[jurrahcane 70]

prefer #3 Toumpas #4 Wines / Mayes #13 Gartlett #25 Viney.

Mayes has the class. Wines the grunt. Toumpas is all class and pace.

Gartlett is like a new Cyril Riolo. Viney is a engine.

[Lord Travis 10,249]

Really want Toumpas in red n blue next year. I'll be [censored] if we miss out on him. He is all class!

[Dr. Mubutu 694]

Really warming to the idea of Mayes.

Hopefully we use the interview stage at the draft camp well, for a change! Surely, with all this FD spending, we have a club psychologist? Get them up there and earning their paycheck!

[dazzledavey36 49,206]

does anyone think we actually might trade one of our early picks for the under 17 mini draft or whatever it is. i really do hope we keep our early picks. i haven't seen mayes play but from all the reports im starting to warm to him. imagine toumpas mayes garlett and viney!

[Demon Disciple 11,102]

replace garlett with kennedy and your on a winner

[dee-luded 2,958]

olisik made a good point in the Under 18 carnival thread about Toumpas, Stringer and Wines.

I don't watch the under 18s very often but looking at today's game I would go with:-

■ Toumpas;

■ Stringer; or

■ Wines

Thoughts?

.... went back to this thread to look see what I posted, as we are now arguing about the type of players, if we have a couple of early top 10 picks, whether to choose slight builds or strong ready to go's ?

IMO we are not as good in the inside area, as some think we are. I think we need both inside grunt & outside run as well. with stretch coming thru I would look for grunt with our early picks. Trade a pick for a (player & a pick) routine.

# would you guys trade P-3 & a 2nd-Rndr to the GCSuns for both they're early picks & a player, (10ish & 15ish & Swallow)?

# or P-4 & a 2nd-Rndr to GWS for Shiel & Jaksch ?

Edited August 3, 2014 by dee-luded

[What 18,810]

the three picks after Toumpas were McRae, Stringer and Wines

so depressing

[olisik 4,060]

the three picks after Toumpas were McRae, Stringer and Wines

so depressing

Vlastuin and Mayes have both shown more then the Toump also.

So much for the MFC not screwing it up again.

[Cards13 9,117]

Really looking forward to your selections on who MFC should pick just before the draft happens this year HH and Os.

Look forward to reviewing them in 5 years time too.

[TheoX 1,218]

Wouldn't be crying over missing Stringer

[Scipio 5,868]

What's the point of bringing this thread up? Obviously both of Wines and Stringer are well ahead of Toumpas.

Just more wrist slashing over something that can't be amended.

[olisik 4,060]

Wouldn't be crying over missing Stringer

How long has it been since we have had players kick bags of 4 and 5 goals? I havnt looked it up but wouldnt be surprised if he has kicked more then any MFC player has this yeae.