Jack Watts

[Still Waiting 94]

Crawf and BigJim, just get over it boys. Seems for the time being quite a few of us here have got it right re where Jack Watts currently stands with the coach..........in territory where the COACH IS NOT HAPPY with JW's performance.

Just read my posts and try to comprehend what I actually say.

By the way, I am not the only one on here who smartarsedly replies to other posters. I just don't get all hurt and sulky about it. I get on with my opinions and if it strikes a raw nerve then maybe I was correct on that particular point. I have made mistakes, but never the same one twice. I was taught that you should remember those who disagree via grey opinions , not facts!

If it aint working , change it!

[QueenC 74]

Again rubbish

Is it being wrong that really irks you? His performance was well worthy of ommission, it was worse than anything Green or davey have dished up.

You want the best out of Jack Watts, then let the coach do his job and stop taking limp wristed potshots.

"Again rubbish", Lord above...... Read the frigging post.

I didn't say he didn't deserve to be dropped, it was a very poor performance, but I just stated that he is not the only one in that boat and that others have performed equally as poorly or worse over the course of this season to date.

Watts, while he hasn't been ripping games apart has been far more consistent than quite a few others out there (until now) this season.

Now I am sure the coaching staff have their reasons for this decision, and I am certain that they know far and away better than we do, I am not abusing the coach. But I think that a few have snuck through with some very poor displays and yet are still selected. N

ow again maybe the coaching staff have their reasons, we'll have to trust that, but that is the way I see it.

Hopefully this will make him tougher/better/stronger willed, at least in his want to play the game.

So in future spare me your "limp wristed insults" and realise not everyone sees things the same way.

Edited May 3, 2012 by QueenC

[QueenC 74]

Swift?

The kid's had 40+ games in a row, and you can't seriously say he deserved those games on form alone.

Maybe, maybe not? But I think that while he hasn't been brilliant he certainly hasn't been the worst, until now.

And I can't imagine why I was so scared of the cheer squad at this decision.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Excuses excuses excuses. It's all I read from Melbourne supporters with regards to Watts. In all honesty he was a terrible pick one even though he was pegged top 3 by most recruiters. So I don't blame the MFC at all, it's just one of those things that can be gleaned by the benefit of twenty twenty hindsight.

Jeremy Cameron is an undersized tall in his first year in the AFL and I would trade Watts for him in a nano second. That boy has heart, courage, desire and can play. He makes Jack look like a sick joke.

Garbage post. Absolutely moronic, thoughtless, blind, emotional piffle.

Nobody's making excuses. It's simple football. We say it ALL the time, and sooking knowitalls like you get on and make the same rubbish up. You can go through dozens of forwards who started off with talent and height but don't put weight on until 25+. Goddard, at 5 years, was considered a joke and a waste. Hawkins the same. It's RARE that the J. Browns and Riewoldts pop up and dominate within their first 2-3 years. These aren't excuses, this is just normal rational explanation of aspects of players' careers in a league that allows them to basically be drafted at 17, instead of 21, when they SHOULD be. This is HOW IT WORKS. Jack was ALWAYS going to more likely take five years to develop than 3. I think 2014 is when we start marking him like an adult, because he'll actually BE one then.

I would be ropable if the club traded Watts for Cameron because he kicked a few goals and you have a crush on him.

You can teach skills.

You can teach technique.

You can teach tactics.

You can teach strength (through weight sessions etc).

Funny that. I think that's all true except skills. The great kicks were ALWAYS great kicks. You can improve the poor ones, but as the saying goes there's two things you'll never fix in footy. The umpiring and the kicking. In any case, have you watched Jack kick the ball at goal or in the field? On both feet he's a STARTLINGLY accurate player. Especially going inside fifty. No-one that height should be able to kick like that. It's a shame everyone wants him as a deep forward. I think only Davey has the pattern recognition and delivery skills to beat him. Maybe Howie too. Trenners is close, Magner, Beamer, Jordie and Jones nowhere near. I think that might be why Neeld played him in the guts. Some silk.

You can't teach desire for the footy.

You can't teach toughness.

You can' teach bravery.

You can't teach effort.

Maybe you can't teach it, but it is developed. Watch his tape when he's a kid. It's there. It's just not in him at this age against men that outweigh him in all but maybe 4 positions on the ground. I know a lot of players, granted who weren't AFL players, who were soft as butter, but once they grew into their bodies, relished the contest more than ANYONE. It was like they saved up all the big hits they took and started to take that out on everyone they played against from 25 onwards. I'm talking about anyone 6'1 and taller here. Yes, if you're a Nath Jones, you'll ALWAYS be like that... but Jack can rediscover that hardness... it's in there. I think it's more of a coaching thing than a "teaching" thing.

Jack has the top half, but not he bottom half.

Winger at AFL level, at best.

Yeah. Cos a Goddard like winger would really suck to have on our list. We all want a big bustling key forward. Jack was never recruited for that. He was closer to being a Riewoldt type. Someone who runs and runs. That, he will be... and I don't even need to say "at best," cos he's already added some of that engine to his game.

If Cale Morton can lay tackles, then so can Jack Watts.

But he'll soon learn that skirting packs is not enough.

Yup. He had a low confidence day where he chose the wrong option... and it showed up a LOT because everyone ELSE played the last game like they thought they were Jordie McKenzie. Even Morton who's easily the softest player on the list. Watts stood out like a sore thumb, and deserved to be dropped. The great thing I like the most about Jack is how immediate his reposnses to pressure have been. When we harped on about lack of touches, suddenly he's getting 25 touch games. When we were pissy with him not taking pack marks, he popped up with a few late in the year. I like that he develops and shows improvements as often as he does. Everyone seems so keen to cram him into a KP forward-sized box. I'm not. I want to watch him develop and when he has the engine he needs, plus the size, he could probably play anywhere on the ground, except KP defender. When they put him in teh engine room early this year, I watched through the gaps in my fingers. But he surprised me at times. He wasn't lost.

[Guest José Mourinho]

It's all a mindset thing with Jack though.

I have no doubt he has it in his mind that he needs to be receiving the ball because he is such a good user of it.

Which is true, but he needs to trust his teammates to use it too and know that him getting the hard ball out for them is just as valuable a contribution.

We've seen flashes of it from him before, so we know he can do it.

But right now his view of his role is skewed.

Just needs a bit of adjustment.

[wmth 69]

Jack will be a gun. This is all part of his development. He needs to be pushed and we all know why, he isn't hard enough. He will get to an acceptable level before too long. A great decision, which sends a great message.

[7-UP 107]

So how come Jack Watts is not playing in VFL?

[The Reverend 1,736]

Crawf and BigJim, just get over it boys. Seems for the time being quite a few of us here have got it right re where Jack Watts currently stands with the coach..........in territory where the COACH IS NOT HAPPY with JW's performance.

Just read my posts and try to comprehend what I actually say.

By the way, I am not the only one on here who smartarsedly replies to other posters. I just don't get all hurt and sulky about it. I get on with my opinions and if it strikes a raw nerve then maybe I was correct on that particular point. I have made mistakes, but never the same one twice. I was taught that you should remember those who disagree via grey opinions , not facts!

If it aint working , change it!

??? You win. I've got no idea what you're talking about now. Won't waste my time again.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

So in future spare me your "limp wristed insults" and realise not everyone sees things the same way.

I don't usually use this sort of language in my posts, but i felt your criticism of Neeld was way off the mark and misguided and deserved a strong rebuke.

Any player, regardless of name, draft position, games played of reputation that put in the effort that Jack put in last Sat would deserve to be dropped.

The kid has been dropped, not delisted. His ego gets dented, he reassesses his game, then he hopefully goes away and works at it.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

Cons

Unless you've trained as a ruckman before, your chances of doing a serious injury are very high.

Watts is no ruckman, never was, never will be. Why waste his development learning a very specific craft he'll never use long term?

Kthanxby.

Agreed. He'd be smashed in the ruck at AFL level by the bigger crash and bash blokes and still won't learn much.

FB or CHB is the only option for the remainder of this year IMO, whether that's at Casey or in the seniors (if a place arises). Preferably the seniors when there's 2 talls to match up on, like this week....Pods & Hawkins. Replace Tom for Watts or Garland for Watts. Not this week obviously as Tom & Garl have earned their place. And Frawley is too important to leave out down back. But for the future, in a similar twin tower set up if Tom drops off or needs a rest at some point, or maybe Rivers injured etc.

Needs to learn 3 major aspects of the game.....

1. To be accountable and play a close checking game on his man when we (or he) doesn't have the ball. Playing him on some of the AFL's solid or great forwards will show whether he's capable of doing this (given enough opportunity).

2. IF we're earmarking or considering him as a forward at any point from here.....he needs to learn where to run, how to run the patterns and the most important part....the timing. In addition he'll also learn how to use the body to move his opponent in the marking contest. Playing him on some of the AFL's solid or great forwards will hopefully show/teach him this.

3. Courage, hardness and commitment at the contest for extended periods of time (sometimes referred to as intensity). If he doesn't find this he'll be in trouble and it'll be there for all to see when playing a key position down back. There's no where to hide. On the positive front, if he does bring that side....it'll also show and he'll be rewarded accordingly and learn while doing so.

Yes, he'll get some hidings on occasions in a key defender role, but he'll hopefully learn and grow. And if this still doesn't help him to learn how to play forward and to be accountable/bring the intensity up forward.....then he might learn how to play a solid role in defense as a fall back....maybe. He might even be able to go both ways and give us some run and good ball use out of defense etc eg., Scarlett. He's been doing that as a loose man across HB for a while now to some degree.

Edit: Playing him in the ruck for 2 to 3 weeks or so at Casey wouldn't be such a bad idea to start with. Might harden him up a little before his key defender stint. Preferably AFL level as defender though...not sure he'd learn what he needs to learn from many of the opponents' forwards at Casey...apart from the accountability aspect.

Edited May 3, 2012 by Rusty Nails

[jumbo returns 6,741]

I still don't think that playing for the Scorpions is going to help Jack.

He is betwixt at the moment - he may get 25 touches, but how will this help him against a Hawthorn, a Geelong, a West Coast, a Swans?

You play against the best, you'll get better.

Make him play a defensive role on Mackie or a Harry Taylor - they're play makers.

But it aint happening and it's only an opinion.

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

For those who can't stand this Jack Watts debate, what the f*@k are you doing on an MFC football forum, reading a topic on the very matter you hate debating?

How about we stop looking to the future and predict what he may or may not become? How about we start making judgments on him as Jack Watts today? Not what Goddard, Hawkins, Jack Watts,

Gandhi, Nietzsche were years ago.

There is a common theme here amongst most demonland posters and Jack Watts himself. It is fear. The demonlander's want Jack to succeed in all ways. They want that star. So we hear time and time again comparisons being

made about the development of players at his age, stats, disposal efficiency, contested marking ability. We hear about him not having enough muscle yet to compete and we should still wait a few years before we see him contesting. We hear excuses being

made about the rest of the list not performing which detracts from the whole Jack Watts debate. The excuses go on and on and on and.....etc

All of those excuses are coming from a subconscious fear. People are worried he won't be the player he was hyped to be being pick 1. This is why excuses are made.

Similar to the demonland poster, Jack Watts shows quite a bit of fear. Let me explain. AFL is a contact sport and throughout a game, one will find themselves in situations/scenarios where their subconscious mind takes over before body contact occurs.

That can happen when two players are running and diving for a ball, that can happen when running back with the flight of the ball, that can happen during a marking contest in a pack situation. It can happen in many scenarios depending on the person and it all comes

down to the mind.

Jack Watts plays with a lot of fear. Fear that he will get hurt. Everyone in their subconscious mind has a level of fear when it comes to playing a sport such as AFL. This subconscious fear usually takes over at a point at which the mind thinks your body is in danger of being

hit/hurt/damaged. Some simpletons will call it being a '[censored]'. Fact is, we all have it.

However, this is completely a mind control thing. The more you put yourself in those scenarios, the more you are exposed to that split second decision of whether to 'go' or not, the more confident you become of 'going' when those scenarios present themselves.

Something that would also help Jack would be to see a sports psychologist. For all I know, he probably already does. They would assist in this 'fear' thing by putting him through various exercises subconsciously. Going through some of these scenarios in your mind

before game day only assists in making that split second decision easier. It's all in the mind for Jack.

Obviously age, playing games, adding weight will improve that part of his game over time, but it's mainly a mind control thing and it can be fixed. Different training perhaps? Maybe he should have a chat to Brett Kirk..

Hopefully the club know that this is clearly the main issue with Jack and hopefully he is working on it in some capacity.

Edited May 3, 2012 by stevethemanjordan

[jabberwocky 2,301]

I still don't think that playing for the Scorpions is going to help Jack.

Make him play a defensive role on Mackie or a Harry Taylor - they're play makers.

But it aint happening and it's only an opinion.

They did that with fisher last Sat. He got towelled and dropped his bundle.

If you don't drop him then how else can you enforce a minimum standards.

Edited May 4, 2012 by dandeeman

[binman 42,972]

The Scorps play tomorrow then next week then have a 2 week break (a bye and the state game or something) so he will need to really star in the next 2 games or else he is likely to miss at least a month.

[rjay 24,928]

As Neil Balme just said on SEN, we forget that Tom Hawkins spent time back in the VFL last year before his breakout finals series, it's just part of learning the game and becoming a player. So lets hold the doom and gloom and let Watts develop into the player I'm sure we all hope he will become.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Wouldn't be at all surpirsed to see Watts play at Casey until the bye. Misses the "tough" run, which from a confidence point of view may be a good thing. Gets some good form at Casey over a few weeks, works on some of the areas that he needs to, then comes back mid season against some lesser opponents and finds the transistion from VFL to AFL a bit easier (as opposed to coming in from 1 week in the VFL to playing against Dustin Fletcher or someone like that).

[old55 23,576]

I didn't say he didn't deserve to be dropped, it was a very poor performance, but I just stated that he is not the only one in that boat and that others have performed equally as poorly or worse over the course of this season to date.

Who do you have in mind and which matches?

I would have bitterly disappointed if Watts wasn't dropped this week because it would mock everything Neeld has said about what he expects.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

They did that with fisher last Sat. He got towelled and dropped his bundle.

If you don't drop him then how else can you enforce a minimum standards.

Fair enough - sit him down with his coaches and run those videos and show him.

Make him do it!

I don't think that running loose with the Scorps is going to be beneficial for the senior team.

[Freak 100]

You can't exactly go back to the vfl to work on your courage. Can you?

[Nasher 33,616]

So how come Jack Watts is not playing in VFL?

He is.

You can't exactly go back to the vfl to work on your courage. Can you?

Why not? Like any player who gets dropped, he's got areas he needs to improve on before he returns. It shouldn't be that hard for Jack to see what he needs to do to get back in to the side - if he's under any doubt, it's as easy as showing him a tape of Jordie McKenzie then showing him a tape of himself. By the way I don't think Jack lacks courage, I think it's more about lack of drive than a lack of courage. He just doesn't seem to push himself hard enough.

I'm always willing to give Watts the benefit of the doubt, but if he's any sort of competitor he'd be very embarrassed with his game. He was literally the only one who didn't show the required intensity on the day.

[mauriesy 7,296]

You can't exactly go back to the vfl to work on your courage. Can you?

Why not? Magner played VFL for five years and learnt it there. He doesn't lack it at AFL level.

This is all about setting standards. Players have to 'go' at AFL level. They need to demonstrate intensity, not get away with a second-class effort and let down their teammates. Sending a player back to the VFL for lack of intensity is exactly the right option, regardless of whether it's a #1 draft pick, a 10-year player or a new rookie.

[Freak 100]

you think Magner learnt his courage through the vfl? That's ridiculous! He would have been a hardnut as soon as he started playing footy. Just like Jack Viney is already a hardnut. You can't teach or learn hardness, it's an innate ability and its the sole reason why Cale Morton and Watts will never improve in this area

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Fair enough - sit him down with his coaches and run those videos and show him.

Make him do it!

I don't think that running loose with the Scorps is going to be beneficial for the senior team.

You cant make someone do anything. He has to choose to do it and he has to begin to reflect the required standard's in the way her plays. He has an opportunity to start to do it with Casey.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

You can't teach or learn hardness, it's an innate ability and its the sole reason why Cale Morton and Watts will never improve in this area

You can and there are plenty of examples of footballers who become harder as players as they progressed. A most obvious one is Brad Green. At the start of his career there was a question mark about his appetite for the contest. In the 2nd half of his career, Green has gone hard when he has need to.

Some players are more prone to being hard than others. Its not a characteristics that typeset to your DNA at birth.

[mauriesy 7,296]

you think Magner learnt his courage through the vfl? That's ridiculous! He would have been a hardnut as soon as he started playing footy.

Playing in the VFL certainly didn't send him backwards in the courage stakes.