DEATH BY A THOUSAND KICKS

[Vipercrunch 2,820]

Hawthorn showed why they are top 2 favourites with many at the moment. They have a unique style amongst AFL sides at the moment and will take some special planning to beat. Our side was still very much in practice mode (selection, match-ups, subs etc). Our ball handling was dissappointing but pressure and contests were OK.

One point I would like to make is that the trail out of bounds rule does not suit us. A lot of our so called rushed kicks we have been making from the backline would be considered great, pressure relieving kicks in the normal season. In the NAB cup they give the ball back to the oppisition. Given our improvements around the stoppages, a throw in 70m out from our defensive goal would be considered a big win for us.

Got very annoyed with the Foxtel commentators. The main one was when they really got into Fitz for supposedly not working hard enough on Hale when he got one of his goals. The continued on with it even after the replay showed Fitz competing against Hawthorns other ruckman at the bounce 70m away from where the quick kick that Hale marked landed. Spud Frawley is exactly that. A Spud.

[McQueen 17,864]

2013 - Top 8... 2014 Top 6... 2014 - 5+...

I'm with you all the way mate. I hope Neeld dissects the hell out of this game because our blokes will learn plenty.

NAB cup or not, today was a lesson our lads need to absorb completely.

[Grapeviney 9,538]

slow

agreed... this is a real worry

jones clark and howe were the only winners for me tonight, and mckenzie - as usual - gave his all when he came on

[jumbo returns 6,703]

......and please don't tell me we could have had Cyril ahead of Morton. Please don't.

Or Patrick Dangerfield............

[dee-luded 2,959]

I'm with you all the way mate. I hope Neeld dissects the hell out of this game because our blokes will learn plenty.

NAB cup or not, today was a lesson our lads need to absorb completely.

Yep & some won't be young enough to count when its important.

IMO Davey would be better going to a side in contention. A trade off...

No's 27 & 28, also next year, IMO...

And some may need a change for changes sake, to rediscover their footy... this year will show if they can find it, or Go.

I'm not against getting morte picks for this years Quality draft. Or, traded youngish players. a Dangerfield or a Boak or any bloody one who can help the middle.

[Sir Why You Little 36,670]

Yep & some won't be young enough to count when its important.

IMO Davey would be better going to a side in contention. A trade off...

No's 27 & 28, also next year, IMO...

And some may need a change for changes sake, to rediscover their footy... this year will show if they can find it, or Go.

I'm not against getting morte picks for this years Quality draft. Or, traded youngish players. a Dangerfield or a Boak or any bloody one who can help the middle.

i agree with this....some of our older players just will not get there...now or ever.

For that Coach Neeld will learn.

[Demon Disciple 11,733]

......and please don't tell me we could have had Cyril ahead of Morton. Please don't.

LOL, i have been going through the 2007-2011 drafts and we could have some absolute jets (of course hindsight is a wonderful thing)

[Demon Disciple 11,733]

......and please don't tell me we could have had Cyril ahead of Morton. Please don't.

If you really want to do your head in, if we lost to Carlton the first time we played them in 2007, not the Kreuzer cup (they then went on to lose something like 12 games in a row), Richmond would've finished last, we'd have gotten pick 2 (and Trent Cotchin, not Morton) and to top it off, Carlton wouldn't have been able to lure Judd across.

[Sir Why You Little 36,670]

If you really want to do your head in, if we lost to Carlton the first time we played them in 2007, not the Kreuzer cup (they then went on to lose something like 12 games in a row), Richmond would've finished last, we'd have gotten pick 2 (and Trent Cotchin, not Morton) and to top it off, Carlton wouldn't have been able to lure Judd across.

"Do not say another word kid...ok"

[biggestred 4,823]

If you really want to do your head in, if we lost to Carlton the first time we played them in 2007, not the Kreuzer cup (they then went on to lose something like 12 games in a row), Richmond would've finished last, we'd have gotten pick 2 (and Trent Cotchin, not Morton) and to top it off, Carlton wouldn't have been able to lure Judd across.

and we would have had a priority pick the year after - well, a before first round instead of a post first round - so effectively it would have been watts, nik nat and blease instead of watts blease and strauss.....

[dee-luded 2,959]

If you really want to do your head in, if we lost to Carlton the first time we played them in 2007, not the Kreuzer cup (they then went on to lose something like 12 games in a row), Richmond would've finished last, we'd have gotten pick 2 (and Trent Cotchin, not Morton) and to top it off, Carlton wouldn't have been able to lure Judd across.

Finally someone with some sense about the 2 Carlton games we played that year. Well done my man. I think they carlton would have missed the priority pick and the tiges would have had pick 1, & us pick 2. We may have had Cotchin.

Instead of,,,,,,,(pick 4)...

#Edit sorry I didn't read all your post... I've been trying to get people to realise this fact since that year, Sitting @ the fence, hoping we lost in rileys first game.

A win for them, Would have put Carton on 20 points I think.

Edited March 10, 2012 by dee-luded

[Chook 14,998]

As I understand it, Hawthorn's short-kicking gameplan is intended to break through the press. Shouldn't it stand to reason, then, that the way to beat them is to just go one on one? Continuing to play a press against a gamestyle specifically tailored to beat your own is just idiocy, and I'm surprised we didn't at least try a more one on one style today, especially when Hawthorn were really laying on the chip-chip-chips. We still may have lost, not only on the scoreboard, but also in the press practice under match-conditions, but we would have gained some valuable lessons in skill and hardness by playing right on the Hawks tails.

[dee-luded 2,959]

As I understand it, Hawthorn's short-kicking gameplan is intended to break through the press. Shouldn't it stand to reason, then, that the way to beat them is to just go one on one? Continuing to play a press against a gamestyle specifically tailored to beat your own is just idiocy, and I'm surprised we didn't at least try a more one on one style today, especially when Hawthorn were really laying on the chip-chip-chips. We still may have lost, not only on the scoreboard, but also in the press practice under match-conditions, but we would have gained some valuable lessons in skill and hardness by playing right on the Hawks tails.

Don't shuffle them, it's too hard to find the Ace.

[Little Goffy 14,057]

One recurring thought for me was that we simply didn't have the mutual anticipation as a team to launch effective attacks. The other side knew where we were going about as well as we did, and with their experience and quite smart backmen were able to kill us on that.

There was an obivously huge contrast in the quality of kicking and the organised creation of targets to kick to. It has been said a lot but Hawthorn as a club are definitely the leaders in precision kicking, and they have long been known for quality team organisation.

Whereas Melbourne have been, since as long ago as 2007, possibly the least organised team out on the ground.

So we were seriously shown up in these areas. We were shown the difference between ourselves and one of the five (Geelong, Collingwood, Carlton, West Coast and Hawthorn) apparent contenders this year.

My other thought this year is that there will be some patches of games, and maybe even some whole games, where our opponent will give just a little too much space to work in, the connections will happen and we will just blow them apart.

Vision, decision-making, and teamwork while operating under pressure. See also; 'experience' and 'instruction'.

My forehead aches from the anxious wait to see it start to come together... I'm glad I'm not in Mark Neeld's position - things need to improve significantly in just this one year, or there will be a lot of stink floating around.

[Fork 'em 6,940]

hawthorn have done a remarkable job in the last decade or so. plus their drafting has, clearly, been superb, and astute.

Hawthorn drafted to a plan.

They drafted left footers for their elite foot disposal aswell as aggressive types that enjoyed playing hard tough football hence the unsociable tag .

Then had the luxury of having players like Burgoyne , Gibson and Hale wanting to play for them.

I still don't know what our drafting plan was or if there even was one.

[Courtney_Fish 183]

You learn more from losses...

No Magner, no Melbourne.

[Buzzy 992]

Hawthorn showed why they are top 2 favourites with many at the moment. They have a unique style amongst AFL sides at the moment and will take some special planning to beat. Our side was still very much in practice mode (selection, match-ups, subs etc). Our ball handling was dissappointing but pressure and contests were OK.

One point I would like to make is that the trail out of bounds rule does not suit us. A lot of our so called rushed kicks we have been making from the backline would be considered great, pressure relieving kicks in the normal season. In the NAB cup they give the ball back to the oppisition. Given our improvements around the stoppages, a throw in 70m out from our defensive goal would be considered a big win for us.

Got very annoyed with the Foxtel commentators. The main one was when they really got into Fitz for supposedly not working hard enough on Hale when he got one of his goals. The continued on with it even after the replay showed Fitz competing against Hawthorns other ruckman at the bounce 70m away from where the quick kick that Hale marked landed. Spud Frawley is exactly that. A Spud.

I agree with you totally re Spud. At least once a game, he comes out with something that is completely wrong and ignorant. I have no idea how he got the coaching job at the Tigers, tells you a bit about that club. I can't even watch that show he's on with Dunstall, he tries to ham things up way too much and just comes across as a tool. I met him once when I was working at Triple M and he was pretty unlikeable.

Don't get me started on Dwayne Russell and his overuse of 'AMAZING!'.

Hawthorn are a fantastic team, hardly any weaknesses. Thank god Geelong are around to be a thorn in their side.

[BIG JIM 508]

I try not to get worked up with the nab cup but im getting tired of sticking up for our team. When we are thinking they are starting to look good and doing all the right things its a new year we can only get better and the club says get on board we have done this and that. But then we have a lose like this again and all my passion and effort i put into the club feels like here we go again and i feel like s%%t. Melbourne have got to stop games like this we cant just say were young its o.k to go down by 120 points then win by 80 points we look like we are so weak to other clubs and i hate it because i dont stop loving this club i keep going and cheering and helping as much as i can. But this crap has got to stop you cant keep doing this to all your loyal fans i feel our team thinks its fine and has been breed like a bunch of women under bailey. Im sure neeld will save the younger guys but the old so called leaders will never change they dont even remember what winning is all about. Sorry guys i have had a few drinks and had my say and my cry but one thing is for sure we need to move some big names on to trade for some real mids and right now other then Clark.Watts,trengrove and frawley all names should be up for trade to get the job done god im drunk goodnight. P.S Thanks scully you little pr%%k

[Striker475 696]

Full-strength Hawthorn lineup setting themselves up for a tilt at a flag. Seriously. Not going to lose sleep - only just checked a score to be honest because that is how little I cared about this game.

[Rogue 585]

So very bad.

[Bluelegs 36]

Howe was alright.

[Bobby McKenzie 2,331]

So very bad.

It's just a NAB cup practice match. Look at the other results today. Richmond thrashing Geelong, Giants beating Gold Coast, Brisbane killing Carlton and Port too good for Dockers. All these results will be reversed in the REAL season.

Oh, and I forgot Adelaide belting Collingwood. Won't happen again!

Edited March 11, 2012 by Bobby McKenzie

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Possession count worries me. The effort thing will still wax and wane as they grow... But this kick it long stuff is Daniheresque.

They had all their players in, all going at a fair clip... What did we expect?

I just hate that when it all goes horribly wrong, they all turn it up so quick. Still no leadership, no desire... but I'm not too concerned. I think if you're this new leadership group, you don't put the blowtorch on now. There's only so many times you can go to the well when it comes to that fire and brimstone stuff... (Please excuse the multiple mixed metaphors) And if you get pissy at your teammates for this garbage, what do you leave yoruself when it REALLY counts.

Individually, players still worry me. Watts is killing me right now, and we have a number of younguns that just aren't footballers. Jack Fitzpatrick has never once showed me a moment that's proven he's a premiership player of the future. Stef Martin reminds me of a much more athletic Ben Holland. I like him, but I don't know that he'll ever reach tremendous heights. Mitch Clark will be good, but again, not Buddy. And many of the really good players under Bailey's system seem to fall away under this system. Bail being one. Bennell being another.

I like Davey's hustle, I actually even like Nicho's hustle this pre-season even if he had a bad day. Howe is going to be top 10 in the bluey.

This year is potentially going to be worse on wins-losses than last year. A step back to take two steps forward. I'm ok with that if it means we get to see some sort of meaningful development.

It's only the NAB cup, so we've seen next to nothing concrete... but if we play like we have over the pre-season throughout this year, then what we will have here is another good coach. But only good like Daniher. Reactionary... taking the newest fad of the league on, 2-3 years after it won flags... instead of innovating to negate tha influence.

[Bluelegs 36]

It's just a NAB cup practice match. Look at the other results today. Richmond thrashing Geelong, Giants beating Gold Coast, Brisbane killing Carlton and Port too good for Dockers. All these results will be reversed in the REAL season.

I don't think the Hawthorn Melbourne matches will have that reversal.

[Whispering_Jack 29,246]

It hasn't really been said up till now and perhaps it's because of the complexity of the issues involved or that it smacks of excuse making but the matter has been raised in a way on the club's site.

Mark Neeld said after the game that the drama surrounding Liam Jurrah won't affect his team in the lead-up to round one - Jurrah drama 'won't affect' Dees

I sincerely hope that to be the case and understand that the Jurrah "drama" is a matter of far wider importance than the sport of football but the events of the week would almost certainly affected the team dynamic last night. Just as many supporters followed the events from Alice Springs as they unfolded on Thursday and Friday, the players would have been no different and many would have been closely and emotionally involved. These things inevitably affect the team dynamic and it's understandable that in the early days after the event it's going to have an effect even if only subliminally among some of them.

Hawthorn was the better team last night. Far better. But the Melbourne team that ran out onto Etihad Stadium did not appear to be fully focussed and the fact that Hawthorn had 6.2.38 on the board before Melbourne scored bears testimony to that fact.

No excuse but I wonder how Hawthorn would have performed had it been one of its own much loved team mates who during the week was locked up in a Northern Territory gaol and facing serious criminal charges?

Just another challenge for Mark Neeld and the football department.