The Waylen (aka Zyrus) Manson Thread

[old dee 23,799]

Manson is back home, Been there a fortnight as you rightly state.He will be picked up- hopefully by us,even if it may require a heavy workload to condition him here,especially as you have stated we seem to have released Ian Flack.

Based on the information I read here on Demonland and other sites I have a gut feel this guy is too hard.

Appears to me it will be very difficult to get the required commitment out of him.

[Pennant St Dee 13,241]

Yeah, get all that but LJ hasn't pulled his finger out but can still kick 40 goals in the AFL...

That's more than 'showing glimpses.'

Will give you that but wouldn't like to be carrying another similar project on our list

[rpfc 28,539]

Will give you that but wouldn't like to be carrying another similar project on our list

You want 'projects'...

Watts, Blease, Gysberts, Bennell, Jetta, Morton, Gawn, Fitzpatrick, and Sylvia (still qualifies [face palm]) are all players that have shown the requirement of special 'encouragement,' a large amount of time, and the ignorance of a lack of application and or fierceness at the footy.

We have got plenty of projects...

[RalphiusMaximus 6,076]

You want 'projects'...

Watts, Blease, Gysberts, Bennell, Jetta, Morton, Gawn, Fitzpatrick, and Sylvia (still qualifies [face palm]) are all players that have shown the requirement of special 'encouragement,' a large amount of time, and the ignorance of a lack of application and or fierceness at the footy.

We have got plenty of projects...

I agree on all of those names. We've made a habit of taking young players with huge potential rather than the more ready-made types for the last few drafts. Indications are that this mentality is changing and Neeld plans to take more guys who can have an immediate impact. I'm not sure he would be that interested in taking on a long-term project like Manson given the way he's been doing things so far. I'd expect him to be looking at players in their early twenties who've shown a bit in the second-tier competitions.

[Chelly 812]

Manson is back home, Been there a fortnight as you rightly state.

Both Manson and Fevola will play with Waratah at the weekend against the Tiwi Bombers.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,076]

Both Manson and Fevola will play with Waratah at the weekend against the Tiwi Bombers.

Will Aussie be playing for Tiwi?

[old dee 23,799]

Will Aussie be playing for Tiwi?

Only if they need a roller to flatten the goal square

[daisycutter 29,622]

Only if they need a roller to flatten the goal square

and he doesn't sleep in

[hardtack 10,555]

Nice to see so much respect being shown for Aussie... and even if they are supposed to be "jokes", I'm afraid they're in rather poor taste. Call me a humorless prcik if you like, but in this case I'm happy to wear it; the guy has had a hell of a time over the past 12 months.

[Pennant St Dee 13,241]

You want 'projects'...

Watts, Blease, Gysberts, Bennell, Jetta, Morton, Gawn, Fitzpatrick, and Sylvia (still qualifies [face palm]) are all players that have shown the requirement of special 'encouragement,' a large amount of time, and the ignorance of a lack of application and or fierceness at the footy.

We have got plenty of projects...

None of these names fall into the Manson or LJ project, they are not from Communities and have proved a track record of training week in week out at TAC, local Colts etc so don't see the same issues of progression to AFL although the step is huge for them they do not have the other outside issues.

[Whispering_Jack 30,237]

Will Aussie be playing for Tiwi?

Aussie had ankle surgery late in the season after injuring himself playing with the Casey reserves on his return from his extended period of mourning. It's been well documented that he was delisted after failing to contact the club or attend his surgeon for a routine appointment.

On that basis, and the fact that Aussie hasn't played for months, I would be surprised if we see him playing at any level for some time.

[rpfc 28,539]

None of these names fall into the Manson or LJ project, they are not from Communities and have proved a track record of training week in week out at TAC, local Colts etc so don't see the same issues of progression to AFL although the step is huge for them they do not have the other outside issues.

The failure rate of the projects I listed would be worse than the failure rate of those similar to LJ or Manson.

Look, you are trying to say that some projects are harder than others, and - thinly veiled - we are talking about indigenous players here.

What I am saying is that the draft is full of kids that may not make it - the Rookie Draft even more so - I don't like the idea of lumping players together purely based on where they come from, the cultural enviroment, or - god forbid - the colour of their skin.

Everyone is different, and as Martin Flanagan has written so eloquently - LJ is a strong young man carving his own path.

I would hope that Barry and Co. will judge the merits of recruiting Manson on their discussions with him, his family, and the level of his talent.

The rest is just pseudo-intellectual social commentary.

I know that sounds harsh, but I mean it in the nicest way possible.

[Range Rover 1,935]

I'm not keen on more of this type of player at this point. Let's bring in a couple of hard-nut 21/22 yo late bloomers who are champing at the bit for an opportunity.

[Good Times Grimes 2,396]

I'm not keen on more of this type of player at this point. Let's bring in a couple of hard-nut 21/22 yo late bloomers who are champing at the bit for an opportunity.

I tend to agree. I've gone a bit cold on old Zyrus over the last couple of weeks after hearing about his alleged severe homesickness. We also have an abundance of marking forwards but seem to be more in need of a couple of solid crumbers than anything else.

[Redleg 40,971]

He still sounds exciting and I would take the chance as a rookie if we felt he could cope down here. Freakish talents don't grow on trees. A talent can learn to do hard work but a hard worker can't always get new talent. I sound like a philosopher. Anyway as a rookie if he developed and adapted to melbourne life he could become a star for us, at worst he was a rookie pick. Use the other picks for your needs or whatever. Just by the way Hall's you tube has also won me over and he could also be a good pick up. I think Couch as I have said before is a certainty for us, if available.

[BIG JIM 508]

LJ would not want this guy trying to take his spot lets be honest. If we do pick him the only spot he will take is LJ. Because you cant afford to have more than one of the flashy types in your forward line. Our club need some small players to press and put pressure on like jarrod blair from collingwood. I think this is what neeld would be looking for the MFC but thats just my thoughts. I think our club will make some BIG steps in 2012 and liam for the coleman medal GO DEES

[Pennant St Dee 13,241]

The failure rate of the projects I listed would be worse than the failure rate of those similar to LJ or Manson.

Look, you are trying to say that some projects are harder than others, and - thinly veiled - we are talking about indigenous players here.

What I am saying is that the draft is full of kids that may not make it - the Rookie Draft even more so - I don't like the idea of lumping players together purely based on where they come from, the cultural enviroment, or - god forbid - the colour of their skin.

Everyone is different, and as Martin Flanagan has written so eloquently - LJ is a strong young man carving his own path.

I would hope that Barry and Co. will judge the merits of recruiting Manson on their discussions with him, his family, and the level of his talent.

The rest is just pseudo-intellectual social commentary.

I know that sounds harsh, but I mean it in the nicest way possible.

it's nothing to do with the colour of their skin, it is Manson's record of committment I am against, footy isn't that big a deal for him it is just something he is good at, in fact a freak. But he is not prepared to put in the hard yards, that is from his application at draft screening and also failing to put in the hard yards at Claremont, we seen what lack of fitness did to us last season the line must be drawn in the sand

[Redleg 40,971]

LJ would not want this guy trying to take his spot lets be honest. If we do pick him the only spot he will take is LJ. Because you cant afford to have more than one of the flashy types in your forward line. Our club need some small players to press and put pressure on like jarrod blair from collingwood. I think this is what neeld would be looking for the MFC but thats just my thoughts. I think our club will make some BIG steps in 2012 and liam for the coleman medal GO DEES

Disagree that his only spot is LJ's. LJ can also crumb and play a bit further up the ground as well. There is always room for talent in a side. Whether he is good enough is another matter.

[old55 23,624]

, at worst he was a rookie pick.

At worst he can use up valuable player management resources for no return - whether he's a rookie or a listed player. As alluded to above, but not necessarily in this context, we've already got plenty of "projects" on our list that require management to deliver their potential including Jurrah, Sylvia, Morton, Lawrence etc. and we have a sketchy history. We've beefed up FD resources, let's get some wins on the board with our current challenges. I'm against importing more big challenges.

[rpfc 28,539]

Let's not forget we are talking about teenagers here...

We have had the ultimate investment three times in our history; TJ was lazy brillance and delivered much less than he promised, Watts is a precocious talent that up until early-last season was an embarrassment to many and remains a nervous frustration, and the other one we don't talk about...

The Rookie Draft is like shopping at Hot Dollar - yeah, you might get a piece of sh!t, but it cost you nothing. And what if it isn't a piece of sh!t? What is it's gold?

[Nasher 33,616]

The Rookie Draft is like shopping at Hot Dollar - yeah, you might get a piece of sh!t, but it cost you nothing. And what if it isn't a piece of sh!t? What is it's gold?

As old alluded to already, the cost isn't necessarily nothing. Price paid up front is only the initial cost, doesn't factor in the ongoings at all.

[rpfc 28,539]

As old alluded to already, the cost isn't necessarily nothing. Price paid up front is only the initial cost, doesn't factor in the ongoings at all.

Yes, but that is true for any pick - and considering the initial investment is higher, the ongoings should be higher to protect that higher inital investment.

What I am trying to say is that TJ and Colin Sylvia were/are serial c#ck teasers for the massive initial investment and could we have provided a better ongoing investment to get the most out of them?

Maybe, maybe not. What could we have done?

More than we did with Jurrah?

I have no answers - I only want people to realise there are investments that need to be made to help any person reach their potential.

Whether you are from Yuendumu or the Mornington Peninsula...

[Jordie_tackles 354]

The more this has played out the colder i have become on Manson.

He on talent alone would already be drafted. Trouble is he has some huge baggage. Before we selected Jurrah he had committed to VFL for 6-8 games i believe and had the backing of his family and community.

Manson wants AFL but doesnt want to sacrifice for it seemingly, if you believe that he left draft camp ect and cried ect

I just dont think we have the resources to deal with him, or that his position is of utmost importance to our structure.

Also Rookie spots can be very valuable commodities, mainly because you invest in 6 a year and maybe find a gem in 1, when you write one of these spots off you reduce the odds of finding that gem, not that Manson couldnt be one if he can commit.

[Axis of Bob 11,836]

Firstly, I think that we are in possibly the best position of AFL clubs to deal with the issues that Manson clearly faces.

Secondly, I don't think we should it. Why?

- We are not a big club and we should be focusing our limited resources on things that are going to give us the most benefit. Things like coaches, medical, player salaries etc. Not just money, but we should also focus our football department time at more important things than micro-managing 'Hail Mary' rookie picks.

- We don't need him. A medium/tall forward that is unlikely to be able to play far from goal. There are only so many of them that you can play in a team (I'd say the number is between zero and one) and we already have a lot of medium forwards that would be more benefit to the team such as Jurrah, Howe, Petterd, Morton etc. Even if he turned out to be really good, could you play him, Jurrah and Howe in the same team along with Clark and Watts? Probably not, so he'd have to be better than those two (who are pretty damn good). Even if he is, it won't be by much, so why don't we focus on areas that are we need to improve?

In short, he's a big risk based on the drain of financial and human resources - and the reward for him being good is virtually nil.

Now I'm not the CEO of Lehman Brothers, but why bear any risk if there is no reward?

[old dee 23,799]

Nice to see so much respect being shown for Aussie... and even if they are supposed to be "jokes", I'm afraid they're in rather poor taste. Call me a humorless prcik if you like, but in this case I'm happy to wear it; the guy has had a hell of a time over the past 12 months.

The problems were there well before the start of 2011.

In the three years before that he had constant weight / fitness/ injury problems.

Leave 2011 aside IMO he seldom had the necessary desire to make it at AFL level.

Sad but that is the way it has ended.