Bartram!!!!!

[Webber 10,538]

He's arguably our worst kick, if not one of the worst in the AFL. Yet how many times does he end up as the last handball in the chain and ends up kicking? Something wrong their structuraly.

You need a complete skill set in today's AFL. Clint's kicking is a liability, and it will unfortunately end his career.

[Don24 103]

I think there is no doubt the end is near for Bartram.

He just has not been able to improve this area of his game.

He would not be playing today had it not been for injuries to Strauss, Grimes, Bail. They all are ahead of him when fit so coaches seem to agree that end is close for Bartram. Sad that he could never get this part of his game up to scratch.

Next year with him gone you would expect Grimes, Bail, Blease, Bennell, Nicholson all to be looking at playing that small dashing defender role. Strauss to slot back in 2013 too.

On the plus side Blease's kicking today was fantastic, slot him in with Tappscott and davey and it is error by foot in backline will drop!

[Waltham33 475]

Some of you are very harsh - a joke is a bit much.

That said, I think Clint's time with us is up. Don24 has already noted who can take his spot.

[Rollo2 64]

On another day it would have been the same result. I'm not even joking when i say he would kick 1 out of 10 from 35 metres on the run.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-melbourne-demons--clint-bartram

Before today this site says he was 16.12 for his career. On another day he would have kicked two and you guys would be toasting him. Not even joking.

[Jaded No More 68,974]

It's hard because he is one of the very very few players who goes hard all the time but god he is terrible by foot.

Top 4 teams don't carry players like Bartram. Sad but true.

[DeeSpencer 26,083]

His kicking for goal is usually straighter than his field kicking I agree, and none of his misses were as bad as Morton's!!!

They crazy thing is, I think after last year Bartram got a 2 year deal, as he was threatening to walk if he didn't get 2 years. I'm not sure what exactly has led to our players all having over hyped opinions of themselves, but in the future I say we just let them go.

[MadAsHell 4,215]

His kicking for goal is usually straighter than his field kicking I agree, and none of his misses were as bad as Morton's!!!

They crazy thing is, I think after last year Bartram got a 2 year deal, as he was threatening to walk if he didn't get 2 years. I'm not sure what exactly has led to our players all having over hyped opinions of themselves, but in the future I say we just let them go.

Funnily enough he may be of some value to someone like St. Kilda who'll be looking to replace Baker who I'm expecting will retire at seasons end. Not sure what we'd get for him though, maybe a goal sneak like Jamie Cripps???

[Rollo2 64]

It's hard because he is one of the very very few players who goes hard all the time but god he is terrible by foot.

Top 4 teams don't carry players like Bartram. Sad but true.

But the Pies are giving games to Buckley and the Hawks are giving games to Cheney. I'd have Bartram in my team before either.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

I admit it is a glaring hole in his game, but we need to bear in mind that it's the only area he falls down in. Yes, we need to stop him from kicking, but he is our best stopper, he rarely fails one-on one and he is one of the few players in our team who knows how to compete. I'd prefer to see them hire him a kicking coach and see if they can't fix his kicking that hold a witch hunt and delist him.

Ummm....kicking is part of the game last time i looked yeah? Maybe you're saying here that you'd prefer him to hand ball more often than not given his turnovers/inaccuracy by foot.

That aside, i agree with the rest of your post. He sure needs help to straighten up and get some accuracy/confidence/distance (when required) in his kicking for sure.

And yes, he is a pretty good stopper and may i add to that, one of the few (if any) that can do it for pretty much 4 quarters for us atm.

Had he not shut Kerr down today, I'd hate to think what the end score line might've been. And we'd no doubt be lamenting yet another blow out and asking for someone's head.... not that there's anyone bigger to scalp than the coach haha.

I'm also fairly certain that he's not alone with his kicking accuracy. And until you can find me another shut down player who's also a more accurate kick, and over most of the four quarters, then i'd rather have him in the mix than not right at the moment.

There's been many a rant and view on here about our lack of forward pressure inside 50 this year. There's been many a wish on here for a 'shut down' plan B/C when the blow out is pending in order that we keep a team at least to a lowish score and stay competitive thereafter.

IMO he's one of the few players that's able to bring this intensity/shut down capability. Until there's others we present or trade for that can do this better, as well as bring the effective disposals into the equation, then Bartram is better than an alternative for this type of 'shut down' role....at this point.

At least he has a red hot go and brings the close checking intensity pretty much every time he's on the park. In addition, i don't think the FD (at this point anyway) are expecting him to snag 2 or 3 every week going the other way and working off his opponent. Sure it would be a bonus, and lets hope they can fix this part of his game, but i'm guessing (and it's just a guess) that they're asking for him exactly what he's bringing at the moment.....without the unforced error/turnover count sure.

I remember Spalding was also a pretty bad kick on goal early in his career with us. I recall the Blues getting hold of him afterwards and fixing his big hook kick a little. He wasn't an all time great, but he sure improved in this area and went on to play in their 1995 premiership team under Parkin. He also went on to eventually balance his kicking at goal ledger to a marginal positive of 169 goals vs 163 points. I for one thought he would never quite make it up forward as a result of his wayward goal kicking style at the Demons. I was right and wrong lol. He didn't at the Demons, but with a little work and adjusting, he did so elsewhere. I'm not saying Bartram is a potential Earl. Just indicating that maybe we can rebuild him (6 million dollar man!).

There's many that need a fixin' in the disposal/goal kicking dept, including some who are more experienced and senior than Clint! One of a number of Bailey legacies perhaps? I'm not saying it is, but if it's obvious for all of us to see, then one has to wonder why it hasn't been addressed to this point in such a reasonably experienced player. Maybe it's not fixable, maybe we have tried everything. I guess i'll never know. The proof of the pudding will be in the kicking accuracy/efficiency from here though.

I'm sure Old Dee will set me straight lol

[Buzzy 992]

I admit it is a glaring hole in his game, but we need to bear in mind that it's the only area he falls down in. Yes, we need to stop him from kicking, but he is our best stopper, he rarely fails one-on one and he is one of the few players in our team who knows how to compete. I'd prefer to see them hire him a kicking coach and see if they can't fix his kicking that hold a witch hunt and delist him.

Great post. Talking sense post. The whole team is down on confidence, once that comes back, it'll be amazing how our skills across the board will improve.

If we judge all our players on their current form then none of them would get an AFL game again. I think this wacko emoticon sums up my face at the game today.

[Adam The God 30,423]

It's not the only area. You're talking about his execution of the kicking skill.

His decision-making is also terrible. And it's improves in recent times, but it's still terrible.

Agreed. The game is called football. If you can't kick it, you're a liability. I thought he played a great game on Kerr, but his skills and decision making aren't up to it. He and Jones are the worst offenders. Their endeavour can never be questioned, but their footy brains and skills certainly can.

[daisycutter 29,743]

I reckon I've seen him kick as many as he misses. Does anyone know his career stats for Goals/Behinds?

don't you mean Goals/Behinds/Out-of-Bounds?

FFS fancy trying to positively rationalise bartrams kicking (if that is what you call it)!

[Deemort 28]

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-melbourne-demons--clint-bartram

Before today this site says he was 16.12 for his career. On another day he would have kicked two and you guys would be toasting him. Not even joking.

I'm with you mate, this thread is being extremely harsh on Barts, had he kicked 2 outta 3 of those goals people would be raving about his game today. I was as annoyed as anyone when he missed those couple and when he gave the 50m away but had those couple of goals gone that little bit straighter this negativity wouldn't be present. Shut down kerr well.

[e25 5]

This thread and supporters in general are not hard enough on Bartram's kicking and decision-making.

When he gets the footy in his hands, he manages to commit atrocities that crush the heart of football teams, especially those filled with kids that haven't been battle hardened.

A team like Collingwood may be able to carry a turnover merchant, but guys like Bartram are hampering the team's development.

[Range Rover 1,935]

I was at the game today, Jones was in our best. Easily. Went in hard at the ball every time and won some very hard ball gets. Putting him in the same category as Bartram is very very wrong. Bartram is an absolute hack. Jones wins the ball, he needs some polished outside players to be presenting for the feed off.

'Jones is in the same boat'.....staggeringly stupid comment!!!!!!!! If not for Nathan Jones today, the winning margin would have been doubled. He worked harder in ways nobody, and I mean NOBODY did today. He played the running link, got under the pack, and presented with vigour in the backline when everyone else stood still. UNBELIEVABLE.

+1 He was our best today by my estimation. Beyond gutsy. And yet he still gets the kind of mindless criticism that 'Range Rover' serves up. No idea.

Rating Jones alongside Bartram is probably a tad harsh but I maintain that Jones struggles to get a game in a decent AFL side.

He tries but he's 50/50 for a turnover every time he gets the footy. That's the harsh reality.

Melbourne supporters like Webber have come to accept that this type of player is as good as it gets for us unfortunately.

[DeeZee 7,445]

I'm with you mate, this thread is being extremely harsh on Barts, had he kicked 2 outta 3 of those goals people would be raving about his game today. I was as annoyed as anyone when he missed those couple and when he gave the 50m away but had those couple of goals gone that little bit straighter this negativity wouldn't be present. Shut down kerr well.

Its not just today.

He continually lets the team down with his disposal.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

I'm with you mate, this thread is being extremely harsh on Barts, had he kicked 2 outta 3 of those goals people would be raving about his game today. I was as annoyed as anyone when he missed those couple and when he gave the 50m away but had those couple of goals gone that little bit straighter this negativity wouldn't be present. Shut down kerr well.

But with Bartram it is always "If Only". If only those two kicks hadn't missed the target, if only he had kicked two of the three goals, if only he hand't kicked the ball out on the full under no pressure.

It is not as if it is a once off on a bad day.

HE DOES IT EVERY SINGLE WEEK.

Don't get me wrong- if you could stick his endeavour into a Sylvia or Davey or half the team at times then we'd be going places. But endeavour only gets you so far and this game is all about execution of skills. The opposition prays on converting turnovers into goals. Barty undoes everything good that he does when he commits these regular kicking atrocities.

[Deeoldfart 8,066]

I admit it is a glaring hole in his game, but we need to bear in mind that it's the only area he falls down in. Yes, we need to stop him from kicking, but he is our best stopper, he rarely fails one-on one and he is one of the few players in our team who knows how to compete. I'd prefer to see them hire him a kicking coach and see if they can't fix his kicking that hold a witch hunt and delist him.

I agree Ralphy, today his crap kicking turned what could have been a 'top 3' performance for the Dees into an ordinary performance at best.

[Real Demon 232]

No doubt about it, those missed goals really hurt when we were trying to mount a comeback.

But by the same token, the atrocious 2nd second qtr dug the hole, Barts just didn't help us get out of it.

I understand the frustration, but I think a few have been a bit to harsh on the man here.............no one can doubt his effort and commitment...........I have never seen him shirk any contest while playing for the red & blue, and I respect him fully for that.

I think in reality it comes back to a recruiting issue, with the modern game so much less forgiving on players who don't have adequate disposal.

[trudders 0]

So... a thread about how bartram should be "kicked" out. FFS there is at least 16 other melbourne players that deserve this thread before bartram. He played his role, he shut down kerr. Thats all he had to do. If everybody had done their role today we would've won. Getting goals woulda been the icing on the cake. But he couldnt polish that off unfortunately.

Before the criticism mounts we should be wary that it should've been either morton or sylvia or any of those outside runners that were in his position when going for goal. That is their role.....

[Arrow 1,257]

This thread and supporters in general are not hard enough on Bartram's kicking and decision-making.

When he gets the footy in his hands, he manages to commit atrocities that crush the heart of football teams, especially those filled with kids that haven't been battle hardened.

A team like Collingwood may be able to carry a turnover merchant, but guys like Bartram are hampering the team's development.

He's gone when Strauss and/or Nicholson is back and firing.

[deewakka 1]

Clint ,clint clint, what were you thinking I counted three times you missed important goals today which you should not have missed and there were others that missed as well but you made it into position to get some good goals

Edited August 14, 2011 by deewakka

[DeeSpencer 26,083]

The third one was the killer, that's a soda for any AFL player and he missed by a huge margin. The pressure of the other 2 misses combined with his substandard kicking clearly weighed on him.

The other 2 in isolation where shocking kicks, but probably forgivable if he pushed them or scraped them.

Still better than Morton's effort in the first quarter. That was pure tripe.

Let's celebrate Blease. Who showed good pace, solid kicking (with a good technique) and most importantly a will to compete I wasn't convinced he had. If he can get his fitness up there should be no reason he can't do a solid tagging job. Big preseason for Sam!

Edited August 14, 2011 by the master

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

kicking was poor, if only he had put those goals through it would have been a good day for him, he towelled up kerr, which is what he is in the team for, not kicking goals!

the problem is he is basically the hardest runner in the team and thus he gets the ball in the good spots, i wish that davey, sylvia et al would run as hard as bartram, to get into the right spots so that they could finish with the 6 points.

its the same with jones, he runs hard and gets the ball in dangerous positions, but does not use it well in the slightest and often means it gets bombed into our fwd 50

Edited August 14, 2011 by Mad_Melbourne

[P-man 13,366]

One of the worst kicks i have seen in 40 yaers of watching football.

Morton's dribbler from 40 metres out would come close to taking that title. Seriously U12s stuff.