The Tom Scully Saga

[Tigers Dayz 2]

I don't have time to read the whole thread to make my point (which may already have been made).

All you people "in the know", or who have a proper grip on drafting and contract negotiations, tell me why a contract cannot be presented to Scully right now, which assumes he is the best player in the AFL at this seasons end. That contact would, in essence be the best the MFC could do.

If that contract is not signed by Scully immediately, then that would say we cannot afford to keep him. Why, then, would he get another game with MFC for the rest of the year? Subsequently we would then progress another young player in the team, and Scully would get no further development?

Hit me!

[deeflog 679]

I don't have time to read the whole thread to make my point (which may already have been made).

All you people "in the know", or who have a proper grip on drafting and contract negotiations, tell me why a contract cannot be presented to Scully right now, which assumes he is the best player in the AFL at this seasons end. That contact would, in essence be the best the MFC could do.

If that contract is not signed by Scully immediately, then that would say we cannot afford to keep him. Why, then, would he get another game with MFC for the rest of the year? Subsequently we would then progress another young player in the team, and Scully would get no further development?

Hit me!

no arguments here

[Longsufferingnomore 1,600]

I don't have time to read the whole thread to make my point (which may already have been made).

All you people "in the know", or who have a proper grip on drafting and contract negotiations, tell me why a contract cannot be presented to Scully right now, which assumes he is the best player in the AFL at this seasons end. That contact would, in essence be the best the MFC could do.

If that contract is not signed by Scully immediately, then that would say we cannot afford to keep him. Why, then, would he get another game with MFC for the rest of the year? Subsequently we would then progress another young player in the team, and Scully would get no further development?

Hit me!

Because Tom has said that he does not want to negotiate a contract now and wants to wait until after the season so that he doesn't have to worry about contract negotiations whilst he is playing ie. wants to see 1. what GWS have to offer and 2 what the tv rights will bring in the form of extra dosh.

[Nasher 33,607]

What a load of crap. The clubs and the players want more money, so expansion is needed. The viability of clubs in general has never been better and more fans turn up to the games. Demetriou is the best CEO in Australian Sport, he may have faults, but he is exactly what the teams, players and Fans want.

Those that think that Demetriou has ruined the game have not had to listen to a Melbourne game allocated to the racing channel on a Saturday afternoon.

With you all the way on this one Thomo. If making the game bigger than it has ever been is "ruining" it then please, Andrew Demetriou, ruin it some more thanks.

[daisycutter 29,259]

Because Tom has said that he does not want to negotiate a contract now and wants to wait until after the season so that he doesn't have to worry about contract negotiations whilst he is playing ie. wants to see 1. what GWS have to offer and 2 what the tv rights will bring in the form of extra dosh.

did tom actually say points 1 and 2, or is that your interpretation of what he said?

not saying you are wrong but are you expanding a little?

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Apart from the media frenzy and "reporting" of rumour and innuendo, can someone tell me the difference between the Scully and Sylvia contract situations?

[Tony Tea 2,800]

Perhaps Andrew can enlighten us how much higher Melbourne's salary cap was compared to Fremantle. What's that: Melbourne & Fremantle had the same salary cap? Just like Melbourne and GWS... don't.

[Tony Tea 2,800]

Although.... Melbourne was cheating the salary cap then. Right, Cam Schwab?

[Demon Dynasty 17,080]

I don't have time to read the whole thread to make my point (which may already have been made).

All you people "in the know", or who have a proper grip on drafting and contract negotiations, tell me why a contract cannot be presented to Scully right now, which assumes he is the best player in the AFL at this seasons end. That contact would, in essence be the best the MFC could do.

If that contract is not signed by Scully immediately, then that would say we cannot afford to keep him. Why, then, would he get another game with MFC for the rest of the year? Subsequently we would then progress another young player in the team, and Scully would get no further development?

Hit me!

I agree. The MFC can only pay him what they can afford going forward. They must have some idea at this point what this is approximately or am i jumping the gun showing my contract/football club/trading ignorance??

It's time to stop f%&ing around and bring in the commitment sledgehammer. If Scully's so committed/loyal to this club it's time to sign. Give him your best deal/contract MFC/FD/Schwab and lets hammer a deal in the next 4 weeks. If it can't be done and he doesn't want to sign i say he gets no more senior game time thereafter. Loyalty amounts to actions not words or delay of negotiations/contract signing. If he wont sign or isn't happy with the deal then IMO he's shown his hand.

Demitriou is half right. If we didn't like the options given to GCS/GWS we (and possibly other weaker/lessor Vic clubs who thought it was a crappy outcome for Vic clubs going forward) should have made a stand before allowing the AFL to push this through like the big bully or dictator they are. Nicely said btw Kennett...for first time i can recall you've said what many (but not all i'm sure) followers believe.

The club is bigger than one man. Ablett Jnr., in my opinion, unsettled the Cats with this staying/going nonsense right through 2010. He should have been a man and stood up and just said half way through last season (at the latest) "boys, i've made a very hard decision.... i'm heading off. Time for the Geelong FD to blood a rooky or a senior rooky"

The Scully Saga is now having the same unsettling/draining/deflating effect on this club IMO.

And by the way, surely Ox could have given his old club 2 bloody days before releasing his big Scully revelation! What a dunderhead. No way someone like Dermie or Daics would undermine their club the day before such a big game like that. Instead, they'd be down there firing them up and giving their support (or at least offering it), such as Dermie's 'line in the sand' rev up at half time in 2004, when the Hawks were said to have had a soft underbelly....ring a bell anyone!!??

Yeh, we should be bigger than that, it shouldn't worry us, we should be more professional blah blah blah, but some of our boys may well have had Ox as their idol growing up and some of them may watch the show/read papers etc. Some of them may have 'believed' or still do, that he's staying....or maybe they were totally focused on the big game they hadn't thought about it much of late.

Only takes 1 or 2 to be slightly affected and the rot starts to spread. You don't think this crap unsettles some of the younger pups or could have had some effect before the game Monday? I told him so too on SEN yesterday. Bloody selfish act with absolutely no gain for anyone other than to big note himself...."look at me...look at me....i told you first right here on the 7 Footy show"! Woopy fricken doo Ox!! It's been doing the rounds for months mate! How bout sticking fat and giving something back to the club and the supporters who gave you so much over so many years and waiting 2 fricken days for your huge announcement!! You can still make it and big note yourself, whilst also taking into account your former background and loyalties and the importance of the game that was about to take place. As you can see, i'm [censored] enough on this to give him a second spray!

If we lose picks/compensation by taking the above option IMO we just have to suck it. We had our chance to stand up to the AFL earlier and we didn't. If you don't stand up to the school bully at some point, then you gotta expect to get your face rubbed in the dirt from time to time eg., Sylvia's broken jaw with no one even sighted/Trengove 3 weeks for a tackle with no prior record/Scully to GWS without any compensation etc.

If he doesn't or isn't signing, at least we can get 8 - 10 more games into someone that is going to be here.....or alternatively we finally get an answer and move on with the rest of the year....fully focused on the game itself and the development of ALL players.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Rusty Nails

[Captain Jack Jordan 32]

Either he is the saviour , or he's a very naughty boy .

[jnrmac 19,890]

I don't think Buckley has been Tarnished at all (apart from being a Filth Player) How many people can actually remember him playing for Brisbane any way??

The Bears were just just the journey between Port adelaide Magpies & the Filth. He was always going there. In doing so he missed out on 3 Flags which is a beautiful irony.

I don't consider him a deserter at all. Never Have.

He left Brisbane to play in a Premiership side. Ha ha h ah ah ah

[Axis of Bob 11,130]

Apart from the media frenzy and "reporting" of rumour and innuendo, can someone tell me the difference between the Scully and Sylvia contract situations?

I'm just repeating it, because nobody responded to the Sylvia thing the first or the second time you said it.

I wonder if supporters would be less upset about losing Sylvia if Scully re-signs, or if this conjecture was about Sylvia all year?

[Tigers Dayz 2]

I'm just repeating it, because nobody responded to the Sylvia thing the first or the second time you said it.

I wonder if supporters would be less upset about losing Sylvia if Scully re-signs, or if this conjecture was about Sylvia all year?

That's right to! Sylvia has been good this year, hasn't he, as a more senior player? I'm just trying to remember previous years.. Damn. When did he begin, again?

Scully or Sylvia resign? .....mmmmm Scully for me! He has a Judd attitude.

[bush demon 1,989]

I agree. The MFC can only pay him what they can afford going forward. They must have some idea at this point what this is approximately or am i jumping the gun showing my contract/football club/trading ignorance??

It's time to stop f%&ing around and bring in the commitment sledgehammer. If Scully's so committed/loyal to this club it's time to sign. Give him your best deal/contract MFC/FD/Schwab and lets hammer a deal in the next 4 weeks. If it can't be done and he doesn't want to sign i say he gets no more senior game time thereafter. Loyalty amounts to actions not words or delay of negotiations/contract signing. If he wont sign or isn't happy with the deal then IMO he's shown his hand.

Demitriou is half right. If we didn't like the options given to GCS/GWS we (and possibly other weaker/lessor Vic clubs who thought it was a crappy outcome for Vic clubs going forward) should have made a stand before allowing the AFL to push this through like the big bully or dictator they are. Nicely said btw Kennett...for first time i can recall you've said what many (but not all i'm sure) followers believe.

The club is bigger than one man. Ablett Jnr., in my opinion, unsettled the Cats with this staying/going nonsense right through 2010. He should have been a man and stood up and just said half way through last season (at the latest) "boys, i've made a very hard decision.... i'm heading off. Time for the Geelong FD to blood a rooky or a senior rooky"

The Scully Saga is now having the same unsettling/draining/deflating effect on this club IMO.

And by the way, surely Ox could have given his old club 2 bloody days before releasing his big Scully revelation! What a dunderhead. No way someone like Dermie or Daics would undermine their club the day before such a big game like that. Instead, they'd be down there firing them up and giving their support (or at least offering it), such as Dermie's 'line in the sand' rev up at half time in 2004, when the Hawks were said to have had a soft underbelly....ring a bell anyone!!??

Yeh, we should be bigger than that, it shouldn't worry us, we should be more professional blah blah blah, but some of our boys may well have had Ox as their idol growing up and some of them may watch the show/read papers etc. Some of them may have 'believed' or still do, that he's staying....or maybe they were totally focused on the big game they hadn't thought about it much of late.

Only takes 1 or 2 to be slightly affected and the rot starts to spread. You don't think this crap unsettles some of the younger pups or could have had some effect before the game Monday? I told him so too on SEN yesterday. Bloody selfish act with absolutely no gain for anyone other than to big note himself...."look at me...look at me....i told you first right here on the 7 Footy show"! Woopy fricken doo Ox!! It's been doing the rounds for months mate! How bout sticking fat and giving something back to the club and the supporters who gave you so much over so many years and waiting 2 fricken days for your huge announcement!! You can still make it and big note yourself, whilst also taking into account your former background and loyalties and the importance of the game that was about to take place. As you can see, i'm [censored] enough on this to give him a second spray!

If we lose picks/compensation by taking the above option IMO we just have to suck it. We had our chance to stand up to the AFL earlier and we didn't. If you don't stand up to the school bully at some point, then you gotta expect to get your face rubbed in the dirt from time to time eg., Sylvia's broken jaw with no one even sighted/Trengove 3 weeks for a tackle with no prior record/Scully to GWS without any compensation etc.

If he doesn't or isn't signing, at least we can get 8 - 10 more games into someone that is going to be here.....or alternatively we finally get an answer and move on with the rest of the year....fully focused on the game itself and the development of ALL players.

That is a ripper post, Rusty. It all comes down to two words: plausible deniability. Scully's manager tells his player to chant a certain mantra throughout the season to round 24 (which makes it plausible to the hamstrung coach, football department, admin. etc that he is a rusted-on rednblueboy4 life. the hamstrung club then transcribes this noble lie to the masses that scully is a rednblueboy4 life etc. we supporters (inc. this trident subscribed correspondent) then go along and cheer the saviour 'number 31' Go number 31!!! till the end of the season, believing even more in the benificence of the AFL and its providence. come brownlow night, the finals and "ooh gee, aren't we lucky, we got another ten games into player scully the GWS franchise gently lowers the brown suitcase full of cash at no.31's doorstep and we have the rug well and truly pulled out from under us. ps i totally agree that the melodrama over scully affected our result on monday, and is influencing our topsy-turvy results in general.

Edited June 15, 2011 by bush demon

[Guest Thomo]

I agree. The MFC can only pay him what they can afford going forward. They must have some idea at this point what this is approximately or am i jumping the gun showing my contract/football club/trading ignorance??

That's where you're wrong. Scully is saying that he will not do a deal until he and the MFC know what they can pay him, and that will be known when the CBA is done.

If you knew that your employer would have the capacity to pay you more later in the year, would you lock in a long term pay rate now?

[beelzebub 23,168]

That is a ripper post, Rusty. It all comes down to two words: plausible deniability. Scully's manager tells his player to chant a certain mantra throughout the season to round 24 (which makes it plausible to the hamstrung coach, football department, admin. etc that he is a rusted-on rednblueboy4 life. the hamstrung club then transcribes this noble lie to the masses that scully is a rednblueboy4 life etc. we supporters (inc. this trident subscribed correspondent) then go along and cheer the saviour 'number 31' Go number 31!!! till the end of the season, believing even more in the benificence of the AFL and its providence. come brownlow night, the finals and "ooh gee, aren't we lucky, we got another ten games into player scully the GWS franchise gently lowers the brown suitcase full of cash at no.31's doorstep and we have the rug well and truly pulled out from under us. ps i totally agree that the melodrama over scully affected our result on monday, and is influencing our topsy-turvy results in general.

Its been about this all along.... This happy distance of convenience between commitment and psuedo aloofness.

wonder if it was a bad omen giving him 31

[Rogue 585]

Its been about this all along.... This happy distance of convenience between commitment and psuedo aloofness.

wonder if it was a bad omen giving him 31

Haha, nice.

[Demon Dynasty 17,080]

That's where you're wrong. Scully is saying that he will not do a deal until he and the MFC know what they can pay him, and that will be known when the CBA is done.

If you knew that your employer would have the capacity to pay you more later in the year, would you lock in a long term pay rate now?

Fair point. Probably not.

But, how about an 'in principle' agreement subject to a review of the terms of pay after the CBA is done? Where there's a will there's usually a way isn't there? I'm sure they could come to some arrangement in principal subject to the finer details of the CBA. There's also maybe the Pratt option for some sort of work arrangement after football...ahem

If there's a severe falling out at that point and they can't deal, sure, maybe GWS wins out and after much sweat and tears we lose him. But at least until then the never ending and constantly growing conjecture/speculation is deadened somewhat so that Scully and rest of the players can focus on the 2nd half of this season.

[bush demon 1,989]

Its been about this all along.... This happy distance of convenience between commitment and psuedo aloofness.

wonder if it was a bad omen giving him 31

The definition of loyalty:

Barassi: Be loyal to who you are with.... at the time.

Smith: I'm Melbourne, Tony... etc can't remember rest of quote

Flower: 272 games, 315 goals

Scully: (insert)

supporters: renew membership, attend games.,

Just get it over with. The surprise about this year-long soap opera is that the South Australian, Jack Trengove has been more than happy to state that he wants to stay a Dee. Losing Scott Thompson, and missing out on Jarman in the 1990's one would have thought that it would have been Trengove who was the more likely of our top two draft picks who was lured away. There should be a cut-off point where Scully is asked to make his intentions known. Bailey has been more forthright with other lesser lights who changed clubs.

[Mono 455]

I agree. The MFC can only pay him what they can afford going forward. They must have some idea at this point what this is approximately or am i jumping the gun showing my contract/football club/trading ignorance??

.....

Good post.

Perhaps I can summarise?

We are building a team and a mid-field. Why play a player who is not going forward with us. Better to get 8 or so games into a player who is (Blease?).

Scully signs = he plays; he doesn't (or until he does), he doesn't play.

Simple. Doesn't need 22 pages on this forum. Sheesh.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Fair point. Probably not.

But, how about an 'in principle' agreement subject to a review of the terms of pay after the CBA is done? Where there's a will there's usually a way isn't there? I'm sure they could come to some arrangement in principal subject to the finer details of the CBA. There's also maybe the Pratt option for some sort of work arrangement after football...ahem

If there's a severe falling out at that point and they can't deal, sure, maybe GWS wins out and after much sweat and tears we lose him. But at least until then the never ending and constantly growing conjecture/speculation is deadened somewhat so that Scully and rest of the players can focus on the 2nd half of this season.

Thomo is wrong about the CBA 'issue'. This figure can be accurately estimated now and it didn't stop Pendlebury and Marc Murphy from re-signing with their clubs. The only reason Scully is holding out is to drop the GWS card on us.

I agree with you. We shouldn't let him.

Tell him and his management what we are prepared to pay now and tell him to take it or leave it.

[Pata 16]

It's simple: trade Morton & Bate for draft picks.

Creates room in salary cap to pay Scully the extra money to stay.

[beelzebub 23,168]

Thomo is wrong about the CBA 'issue'. This figure can be accurately estimated now and it didn't stop Pendlebury and Marc Murphy from re-signing with their clubs. The only reason Scully is holding out is to drop the GWS card on us.

I agree with you. We shouldn't let him.

Tell him and his management what we are prepared to pay now and tell him to take it or leave it.

I totally agree on this point. The CBA element is really a furphy. Its surmountable to all parties acceptance, if that indeed was the goal of both parties. Whilst not able to lock in a figure for the CBA component a guesstimate can be used to start from.

What Scully/management is really about is entertaining bids and deals from other clubs. They cant do this until end of play round 22, not officially

If he was truly of a mind to play and stay it would be easy enough to come to terms that would still allow room to move re money/conditions. That this isnt happening is what leads many to consider his future isnt red and blue.

[bush demon 1,989]

It's simple: trade Morton & Bate for draft picks.

Creates room in salary cap to pay Scully the extra money to stay.

Scully does not deserve top dollar at this stage. It will only push up the cost of retaining players who do want to stay on our list.

[Guest Thomo]

Fair point. Probably not.

But, how about an 'in principle' agreement subject to a review of the terms of pay after the CBA is done? Where there's a will there's usually a way isn't there? I'm sure they could come to some arrangement in principal subject to the finer details of the CBA. There's also maybe the Pratt option for some sort of work arrangement after football...ahem

If there's a severe falling out at that point and they can't deal, sure, maybe GWS wins out and after much sweat and tears we lose him. But at least until then the never ending and constantly growing conjecture/speculation is deadened somewhat so that Scully and rest of the players can focus on the 2nd half of this season.

It sounds like the club would have no idea what the new cap will be. The AFL and the Players association are miles apart, so it would be hard to agree to an in principal deal.

The new CBA could have some strange new twists, like marquee players outside the cap like they do in the A league that fit outside the cap.

Agreeing to an arrangement in principal would reduce his bargaining power. There is no way I would say to my boss that I am staying on long term, now can I have an increase in pay.

Although I also find it hard to believe that Scully's management have not spoken to GWS, it would actually be negligent of them if they did not to find out his market worth, I think if I was Scully and wanted to stay at Melbourne I would wait until the CBA is done before committing.

The definition of loyalty:

Barassi: Be loyal to who you are with.... at the time.

Smith: I'm Melbourne, Tony... etc can't remember rest of quote

Flower: 272 games, 315 goals

Scully: (insert)

supporters: renew membership, attend games.,

Just get it over with. The surprise about this year-long soap opera is that the South Australian, Jack Trengove has been more than happy to state that he wants to stay a Dee. Losing Scott Thompson, and missing out on Jarman in the 1990's one would have thought that it would have been Trengove who was the more likely of our top two draft picks who was lured away. There should be a cut-off point where Scully is asked to make his intentions known. Bailey has been more forthright with other lesser lights who changed clubs.

The cut off point it the end of his contract. Maybe they can write it into future contracts that players need to sign new contracts by midyear, but it would work the other way as well. Imagine if we had to make decisions on all Melbourne players right now. Unfortunately we can't have one rule for the players we really want to keep, and one for the players we are not sure about.