If Nathan Jones goes...

[old55 21,768]

Nathan Jones and Clint Bartram finished equal in the B&F and have been at the club about the same time. Both give their all, have many positives and some limitations. The FD rates them about the same and so do I. I think they're both out of contract - they ought to be getting similar deals. I hope they stay with us on the right terms.

Edited September 5, 2010 by old55

[Tony Tea 2,792]

This may seem an odd question, but what is the basis for this thread? I've been looking at the papers and the AFL site, even Jones' twitter page, and there is no mention of him being traded. Has this all come from one poster's fevered imagination?

Melbourne was shopping Jones around last year, and then the Brock trade emerged.

Every player has their price. If Carlton said you could have Judd for Jones, you would take it. So, just work back from there until you get to Jones' value. I tip you'd be working for a while, because Jones, while a hard worker with ever-improving disposal skills, is a long way short of top line.

Melbourne have concluded that Jones, while limited, has value. They would be mad not to consider trades.

[H_T 2,941]

Great use of your admin powers there HT. Are you by chance profiling members? Is this a particular grudge of yours or do you just check for dirt on all posters?

I better watch my back

Not at all, 'Tricky'. The same username is quite easily recognisable. Hissy fits are most memorable. I believe there hasn't been too many at all that have handed in their account after a tantrum. Even less having re-signed after a small cool down.

Thanks for the compliment.

[Tricky 337]

Thanks for the compliment.

yeah no problem 'High Tower' keep up the good work

[bananas 428]

Hmmm. I think I rate Jonesy higher than a lot of people on this forum. I'd keep him. He's 22 for God's sake! People who say he has no upside are surely kidding themselves, or kidding the rest of us.

Anyway, attempting to use reason:

In any given game of footy, you need 12 midfielders (or players capable of playing midfield) in the 22. Maybe even more than that, depending on who you've got on the flanks and in the back pockets. To cover injury throughout the season, you'd probably want to have at least 16 and up to 20+ midfielders who are easily AFL-standard.

Best and fairest be damned, at the moment I'd put Jonesy behind Davey, Sylvia, Green (who won't be playing midfield much anymore) and Scully, and I'd put him pretty much on par with Moloney, McKenzie and Trengove.

Before you blow up at me, who of this batch is currently a better midfielder than Jonesy: Bail, Bennell, Blease, Bruce, Grimes, Gysberts, Jetta, Maric, Morton, Strauss, Tapscott, Wonaeamirri? Everyone else on the list is a definite forward or a definite defender, so I haven't included them. Before Jones will be squeezed out of the team, about six of these guys will have to get moved into the midfield (eg. Grimes, Wonna, Bruce - I'd say only Grimes is a realistic possibility) or simply improve past him (the young guys). While we'd all love that to be the case, we can't know for sure it's gonna happen until it happens. And as I said before, Jonesy's still a young guy himself, with the possibility of improving his game too.

To be talking of getting rid of him is premature. Obviously if a trade came up for him that the FD felt improved our list, then go for it and good luck. But the same could be said of every player on the list. If the Tigers offered us Riewoldt, I'd give away (nearly) anybody. It's all relative.

Personally I love the idea of turning Jonesy into our Cameron Ling. I think with a bit of time and development he could make that position his own, and still hurt the opposition a fair bit when we've got the ball as well.

--- edited for clarity

Edited September 6, 2010 by bananas

[Nasher 33,187]

Don't think Nasher is liking the topic though hence the needling!

What on Earth are you on about? My only contribution to this thread has been the posts I have done on it. I don't know what "needling" is but unless it means replying to the topic, I'm quite sure I haven't done it.

[Nasher 33,187]

yeah no problem 'High Tower' keep up the good work

Just to expand on what HT said, when you spend a lot of time on these forums (as most of us who are admins do), or are active for a long time (several years), you build up a good picture of each poster and memorable events just start to stick in your mind quite a bit (such as DemonSG's epic dummy spit - I'll never forget that name, because it came with a barrage of abuse towards myself. You'll note he is quite prickly towards me in this thread). If I was to produce a list of the top 30 or so posters, I could probably write a few sentences about the type of poster they are and what type of issues they like to talk about etc. I know that sounds really, really sad, but it's a function of being a very active member of the forum for a very long time. I can do it on other forums I'm busy on too, so it's not because of my admin powers, it's just because of reading far too many forum posts.

I seriously doubt anyone is bothering to go to any great lengths to profile beyond stuff that just sticks in their memory).

[satyricon 267]

Hmmm. I think I rate Jonesy higher than a lot of people on this forum. I'd keep him. He's 22 for God's sake! People who say he has no upside are surely kidding themselves, or kidding the rest of us.

Anyway, attempting to use reason:

In any given game of footy, you need 12 midfielders (or players capable of playing midfield) in the 22. Maybe even more than that, depending on who you've got on the flanks and in the back pockets. To cover injury throughout the season, you'd probably want to have at least 16 and up to 20+ midfielders who are easily AFL-standard.

Best and fairest be damned, at the moment I'd put Jonesy behind Davey, Sylvia, Green (who won't be playing midfield much anymore) and Scully, and I'd put him pretty much on par with Moloney, McKenzie and Trengove.

Before you blow up at me, who of this batch is currently a better midfielder than Jonesy: Bail, Bennell, Blease, Bruce, Grimes, Gysberts, Jetta, Maric, Morton, Strauss, Tapscott, Wonaeamirri? Everyone else on the list is a definite forward or a definite defender, so I haven't included them. Before Jones will be squeezed out of the team, about six of these guys will have to get moved into the midfield (eg. Grimes, Wonna, Bruce - I'd say only Grimes is a realistic possibility) or simply improve past him (the young guys). While we'd all love that to be the case, we can't know for sure it's gonna happen until it happens. And as I said before, Jonesy's still a young guy himself, with the possibility of improving his game too.

To be talking of getting rid of him is premature. Obviously if a trade came up for him that the FD felt improved our list, then go for it and good luck. But the same could be said of every player on the list. If the Tigers offered us Riewoldt, I'd give away (nearly) anybody. It's all relative.

Personally I love the idea of turning Jonesy into our Cameron Ling. I think with a bit of time and development he could make that position his own, and still hurt the opposition a fair bit when we've got the ball as well.

--- edited for clarity

That is a very fine argument, well put and backing up your rationale.

I agree with some posters also, I love Nathan Jones' hard at it approach in games and at the moment is ahead of other mmidfielders.

But next year I don't think that will be the case, unfortunately I think he is a bit one dimensional, he has had four years to work on his game and yes I agree he has made some improvement but I fear not enough.

If he is traded, of course these are only unfounded rumours, I for one would not be too disappointed, in the same way I wasn't when Brock McLean went (again somebody who is/was a bit one dimensional)

Edited September 6, 2010 by satyricon

[DemonSG 1]

Just to expand on what HT said, when you spend a lot of time on these forums (as most of us who are admins do), or are active for a long time (several years), you build up a good picture of each poster and memorable events just start to stick in your mind quite a bit (such as DemonSG's epic dummy spit - I'll never forget that name, because it came with a barrage of abuse towards myself. You'll note he is quite prickly towards me in this thread). If I was to produce a list of the top 30 or so posters, I could probably write a few sentences about the type of poster they are and what type of issues they like to talk about etc. I know that sounds really, really sad, but it's a function of being a very active member of the forum for a very long time. I can do it on other forums I'm busy on too, so it's not because of my admin powers, it's just because of reading far too many forum posts.

I seriously doubt anyone is bothering to go to any great lengths to profile beyond stuff that just sticks in their memory).

I'll just correct you on that, I have never abused you or anyone else here, I'll admit I did get upset with the guy who was pleased Morton got injured though. Your reference to me in your thread on this current topic did you no favours as a independent moderator though.

[DemonSG 1]

Not at all, 'Tricky'. The same username is quite easily recognisable. Hissy fits are most memorable. I believe there hasn't been too many at all that have handed in their account after a tantrum. Even less having re-signed after a small cool down.

Thanks for the compliment.

Glad you are intelligent enough to recognise the surname..may I ask why this thread has been "moved"?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Glad you are intelligent enough to recognise the surname..may I ask why this thread has been "moved"?

The content was more about the possibility of Jones being traded and the thread was moved. Simple as that.

Edited September 6, 2010 by Rhino Richards
My post crossed with HTs and he is correct.

[H_T 2,941]

Glad you are intelligent enough to recognise the surname..may I ask why this thread has been "moved"?

The thread was moved DemonSG, because the moderator (unsure of who moved it) deemed it to fall under the Trading and Drafting Forum rather than just the Message Board.

[ox_5 163]

Glad you are intelligent enough to recognise the surname..may I ask why this thread has been "moved"?

I'll tack a stab at that one. Probably so it can be on the appropriate board, being drafting and trading. Not that hard is it?

[old55 21,768]

The usual the starting point for "trade" rumours with out of contract players is a gap between where the club rates him and what they're offering and what he believes he is worth. Remember out of contract players are free to go into the draft with a price like Luke Ball did.

The starting point in the Nathan Jones discussion isn't whether we want to trade him - I'm sure we want to keep him - at the right price. He's out of contract and there has to be offer and counter-offer. His manager has to go to the market to test his value if there's a mismatch in expectations.

[jayceebee31 692]

It shows the true character of the player when he asks to meet the coaches and ask about his future.No spittin the dummy(well-at this stage).No doubt he has been asked to fill different roles this year. I feel he is still in our best 22. We need players like him at the club- a real trooper and great character.

[H_T 2,941]

It shows the true character of the player when he asks to meet the coaches and ask about his future.No spittin the dummy(well-at this stage).No doubt he has been asked to fill different roles this year. I feel he is still in our best 22. We need players like him at the club- a real trooper and great character.

Agree re: true character (if what Barrett says is true). But also Jones' apparent maturity and level headed approach and understanding of maybe where he is at and areas he may need to improve in, all this despite him being poleaxed last Sunday week against North. Tough little bugger.

[Brayshaw Self 847]

Interesting to note that Jones:

- Was Pick 12

- Received 2 Rising Star Nominations (only played 8 games in his first year)

- Finished THIRD in the Rising Star in 2007 behind Joel Selwood and Scott Pendlebury

- Finished SECOND in the BNF in 2007, in only his second year

- Is only 22 years old

This tells me that we would receive a good draft pick or player, should we trade him,

and that he is a lot better than is being suggested on here at the moment so maybe

we should actually look to keep him.

[Diablo Deemon 220]

Here, here, There's been a lot of absurdity written about Jones when the stats say the opposite.

His disposal effeciency is 73% best amongst our full time midfielders and in the top 15 of all players.

He ranks 8th for contested possessions.

Brent Moloney, Aaron Davey, James Mcdonald, Tom Scully and Colin Sylvia are ahead on the clanger count and played less games then him.

He ranks 4th for inside 50's at the club.

He also ranks 4th for disposals.

Unfortunately, for a 22 year old who has almost made it to 100 games from 4 seasons he is judged beyond far too harshly both in expectation and what he's delivered.

If he continues to improve as he has done he could be elite amongst he's class he certainly has time on his side.

He's consistent, hard at it, in and under player and rarely gets injured. Many things of which the MFC is in short supply.

[agent_orange 0]

Interesting to note that Jones:

- Was Pick 12

- Received 2 Rising Star Nominations (only played 8 games in his first year)

- Finished THIRD in the Rising Star in 2007 behind Joel Selwood and Scott Pendlebury

- Finished SECOND in the BNF in 2007, in only his second year

- Is only 22 years old

This tells me that we would receive a good draft pick or player, should we trade him,

and that he is a lot better than is being suggested on here at the moment so maybe

we should actually look to keep him.

Does demonland do our recruiting? A whole thread based on one claim that a son of a board member told them we were going to trade Jones.

I am sure our board is active in football department decisions!! LOL.

[DeeSpencer 23,547]

Thought I'd get in before anyone else! On his twitter he says he's heading to Sydney for a week to chill and for a change of scenery.

Now logical thinkers would agree that a week away for a change of scenery would be a nice idea when you've got a broken back and have to battle to get around.

But let the trade rumours long continue. Certainly if Jones was leaving Sydney would be perfect for them. He'd slip into Kirk or Bolton's spot and be racking the possies up.

[Red and Blue Flame 142]

Thought I'd get in before anyone else! On his twitter he says he's heading to Sydney for a week to chill and for a change of scenery.

Now logical thinkers would agree that a week away for a change of scenery would be a nice idea when you've got a broken back and have to battle to get around.

But let the trade rumours long continue. Certainly if Jones was leaving Sydney would be perfect for them. He'd slip into Kirk or Bolton's spot and be racking the possies up.

He was at the Best & Fairest. Its not as if he can't move around. Sydney are still in the finals so they wouldn't be speaking to him, at least not yet anyway because i agree he'd be a great addition into their side. He's purely gone there IMO to get away from Melbourne, have some time off and chill out. Nothing more to it!

[Red Sox 2]

Interesting to note that Jones:

- Was Pick 12

- Received 2 Rising Star Nominations (only played 8 games in his first year)

- Finished THIRD in the Rising Star in 2007 behind Joel Selwood and Scott Pendlebury

- Finished SECOND in the BNF in 2007, in only his second year

- Is only 22 years old

This tells me that we would receive a good draft pick or player, should we trade him,

and that he is a lot better than is being suggested on here at the moment so maybe

we should actually look to keep him.

Does demonland do our recruiting? A whole thread based on one claim that a son of a board member told them we were going to trade Jones.

I am sure our board is active in football department decisions!! LOL.

He finished 13th in the B&F in 2010. From that I would be taking the football dept believe he hasn't delivered.

[jayceebee31 692]

Interesting to note that Jones:

- Was Pick 12

- Received 2 Rising Star Nominations (only played 8 games in his first year)

- Finished THIRD in the Rising Star in 2007 behind Joel Selwood and Scott Pendlebury

- Finished SECOND in the BNF in 2007, in only his second year

- Is only 22 years old

This tells me that we would receive a good draft pick or player, should we trade him,

and that he is a lot better than is being suggested on here at the moment so maybe

we should actually look to keep him.

You have just posted the credentials to keep him- maybe we should play him in his natural role/s. Just maybe others need to learn like him, such as Trengove,Scully etc..

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

You have just posted the credentials to keep him- maybe we should play him in his natural role/s. Just maybe others need to learn like him, such as Trengove,Scully etc..

About as good as Meesen draft pick number in 2004.

The Footy dept read a different set of tea leaves to you.

For a player who was in the midfield and played 22 games, coming 15th in the B & F is not a high ranking by the football department.

Even Scully and Trengove have overtaken Jones. And there are others too who will do likewise next year.

[JACKATTACK 17]

If I was to produce a list of the top 30 or so posters, I could probably write a few sentences about the type of poster they are and what type of issues they like to talk about etc.

Do it. Would make good reading. Even just the top 10.