Our forward line structure

[DeeVoted 582]

Having watched most of our 'open' training sessions,and

thought we would really struggle up forward.

I didnt agree with Robbo not given 1 more year.

Before anyone jumps on me cause they dont like Robbo,here's what I thought would happen.After today,if I wasnt convinced before, I am now.

Firstly let me defend my comment.

Robbo was a proven goalkicker,with experience,that required

a 'top' opposition backman to go with him.That takes some

pressure off the in-experienced forwards (ie Jurrah & co)

After watching todays game we could have used him,to have another avenue to goal. At least today we did manage to improve in getting beyond our 50.

There are a couple that are very very lucky to have remained on our 'rookie / senior list. Lets not name names

but we all have an idea whom.

The downside of course,there is always a downside,would he have stayed fit,he didnt always to the 'team' thing, but most times gave his all,better than some atm,that run around getting nowhere.Then there is the arguement that he

wasnt going to be the future of a young team.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, when things arent going right,its easy to point the finger.... blah blah

So my question, anyone else think we could have kept him on for another season? Just interested if anyone thought the same.

Edited February 27, 2010 by Deevoted

[Allen Jakovich 516]

No.

I loved Robbo, but last year his work in the forward line disgusted me. He always put Robbo b4 the team.

It was time for him to go.

We're still a month out from the season dude be patient.

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,089]

Robbo threads have been done to death, but he had to go.

As far as our forward line structure, there isn`t one at the moment. Bate coming back from injury and a more permanent role for Green up forward will make a massive difference, as will game time in Watts. Jurrah has had 2 poor games, but he`s all alone up there at the moment. Give it time, we`ll start to see improvement this year. The delivery of Grimes and Trengove in particular will get better and better and make life easier for these blokes

[Real Demon 232]

I liked Robbo, and thought we should have kept him for at least another year, and I haven't changed my view on this just because of the couple of losses we have had this year.

The forward line was always going to be our weakness this year.........Watts was never going to be an immediate Neitz replacement, we know where Miller is at, Bate is solid, but not going to necessarily give us goals every week, and Jurrah is still so green.

I'm no footy "expert" but a pretty passionate follower of the Dees, but I still simply cannot understand how Newton stays on our list and Robbo didn't.

Talent / value wise, they are poles apart.

I find it odd that the Bombers picked up an aging Mark Williams with a dodgy knee to assist their your developing forward line, whereas we let Robbo go and continue to struggle to kick winning scores, or even have a forward that can take a solid mark and kick straight on a semi regular basis.

It matters little now, but I have to agree Deevoted, I think having him around now would be very handy indeed.

[DeeVoted 582]

Now we have had time to reflect.. just wondered?.

As for what we have got.

I hope Bailey gives Newtown more game time. Even if he isnt

our star forward. (I for 1,didnt expect him to be still here). If he wanted to be our FF, he should have shown

more by now. But seeing he is still on the list,I say let

him sink or swim. Martin shows promise, big guys take longer to come on,so maybe a rotation off the bench would work for them. Davey on a flank/wing Green on the other,maybe switch to FF at some stage during a game. There's Aussie,when fit. Dunn as other. Watts probably should spend most of this year with Casey. But we are desperate for a goal-kicking forward,so he might have to face the music,sooner,than later.The options are there,just no 'gun' forwards atm. In time 1 or 2 might be.

[Keyser Söze 0]

No.

The kids won't develop and learn anything good from playing with a guy like Robbo.

Newton's oft-criticised attitude is the type of attitude i think you'd cultivate from the kids learning off Robbo.

He may have been skilled and loved the club, but he played selfish front-running football.

[Wolfmother 182]

I agree with you devoted, the problem with the forward line is there is no real targets, we need to have one at FF and watts isn;t ready and Jurrah isn't a FF, a target will allow others to learn there game and Watts can move into the position when ready also play next to the person learn the speed of AFL etc etc.

I think the only two players we have on the list that can play the role is Green or Juice... Watts can play the position but needs some time to learn. I think our side is pretty strong besides that position (I would rather Watts play CHF like Roo) we recruited fitzpatrick for the position but he is a couple of years away

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

I agree with deevoted too.

I love the guy, but I can't see Jurrah ever being our number one FF. He needs space and some others around him to make the impact we know/hope he will.

Watts is still a long way off holding down the position on a permanent and effective basis.

Bate seems to play off the half forward line with good effect.

We could have, and arguably should have, used Robbo for one more year at FF - if only to assist the other younger players on our list.

Merely giving the kids game time in a dysfunctional forward line is hardly good development.

Perhaps we just need to bite the bullet and play Green at FF on a permanent basis - and have a big man trying to make each contest to create options for our crumbers and Jurrah.

The only question I have is - if we did offer Robbo one more year, which player would we not have drafted (Joel Macdonald)? To me, that's the only argument in support of having delisted Robbo.

[deeflog 679]

Having not been to any games this season yet, i only have limited knowledge to talk about this topic, but i think Brad Green needs to played as a permanent forward. Whether it be out of the goal square or 30m out. He is our best kick at goal and i think is wasted on the wing or half back for a number of reasons.

By having him on a wing he is slowing the development of a Trengove, Grimes or Scully, and if he plays across half back he is hindering Bennell's and Cheneys development. We have enough leaders in the back line to guide these younger guys and its out forward line that really needs a leader and a target.

Thoughts?

[DeeZee 6,731]

I think in a forward line youve got to have people who can kick well, because thats the objective.

Being a good mark and a great competitor is also a pre-requesite.

Miller cant kick straight and im not convinced in Martin.

"Goal sense" is also very important.

Based on the above i have put together a forward line that i think would function well.

Pettard Bate Wona

Dunn Jurrah Watts

Id also use Davey,Green, Jetta and Maric in there from time to time, and try out a Garland if we need anther tall option.

Edited February 27, 2010 by DEEZEE

[Swampfox 190]

We are 2 years away from playing consistant competitive football

Until then we will lose more than we win although i do expect a few upsets along the journey

We have a number of players on our list that have never played a game yet

We are no different to where The Hawks were a few years ago

Our strongest zone is currently our defence and the addition of Joel Mac adds to it even more

In the last 3 drafts we have concentrated with a few exceptions on skillful midfielders

This has been our weakest zone and will take some time to develop young bodies

Far too much emphasis is made of blaming the forward line for not kicking a winning score

The problem has always been the midfield and its ability to get the ball into our foward 50 quickly and accuratley

Its the only way i know that you can put a defence under pressure

It is no coincidence that teams develop their defence before any other zone so that when they are ready to challenge for finals

success they have good experiences players within that zone

Dont expect too much in 2010

[tez 6]

Our strongest zone is currently our defence and the addition of Joel Mac adds to it even mor

Dont expect too much in 2010

Recruiting joel mac will release Cam Bruce to more important roles of attacking and not being used as a tagger

as for your prediction of dont expect too much in 2010 i have to disagree and feel we will be alot more competitive and will win double the games we have from last year, with the senior guys not played yet our centre and forward stocks will improve vastly as will our win ratio

[Demon trucker 1,748]

I agree with deevoted too.

I love the guy, but I can't see Jurrah ever being our number one FF. He needs space and some others around him to make the impact we know/hope he will.

Watts is still a long way off holding down the position on a permanent and effective basis.

Bate seems to play off the half forward line with good effect.

We could have, and arguably should have, used Robbo for one more year at FF - if only to assist the other younger players on our list.

Merely giving the kids game time in a dysfunctional forward line is hardly good development.

Perhaps we just need to bite the bullet and play Green at FF on a permanent basis - and have a big man trying to make each contest to create options for our crumbers and Jurrah.

The only question I have is - if we did offer Robbo one more year, which player would we not have drafted (Joel Macdonald)? To me, that's the only argument in support of having delisted Robbo.

Maybe we should have looked for a seasoned forward in the preseason draft instead of McDonald, but not Bradshaw, I don’t know if anyone was available. Or could we have poached someone, from another club like the hawks did with Gibson. Ricky kicks four, did he play FF? If so maybe he is our FF, and is he tall enough? I know few don’t like him but he has kick four a few times now, he could surprise

[Deeoldfart 7,720]

....................... I still simply cannot understand how Newton stays on our list and Robbo didn't. /quote]

Fairly straight-forward I think. Robbo was out of contract at the end of '09 and Juice wasn't. The error of judgement may have been giving Juice a 2 year contract at the end of '08, but sadly, foresight is rarely as effective as hindsight, and I expect all clubs have a few list 'cloggers' who wouldn't be there had they had the benefit of hindsight.

............ and in any event, retention of Robbo would not have been consistent with Melbourne's longer-term planning. He may have kicked a few goals in one more season, but in all liklihood he would have kept a young player out of the team (and they desperately need game-time), and unless he adopted a vastly different attitude, he would not have set the type of on-field example that the coaching staff would be expecting from a senior player. This point is illustrated by the fact that none of the other clubs were prepared to take a punt on him with a late draft.

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

I loved Robbo and I agree that he had more goals in him. Had he stayed on our list, he would likely have topped our goalkicking again this year.

That being said, I'm comfortable with his forced retirement. It was a tough decision, but he was not going to be in our next premiership and it's better to take one more dip at the draft pool in the hopes of finding a new player than it is to hang on to an old one for one more year.

What we need far more than one player who can kick goals is someone to teach our forwards how to kick goals. We seem to have no structure and no teamwork in our forward 50, and when we do get a set shot we miss more often than we hit. It's all very well saying that Watts is a great kick, but it won't help us this year, and probably not next either. We need the KPF's we have right now to kick goals, not points.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Jurrah is only going to get better as a result of a player like Fletcher being on him. If you hang on to players like robbo, these young gyus miss out on that expereince. The same goes for Brock McLean, if he was still around that would less time for Sculgove to be lining up in the centre square developing themselves. That's the whole idea, Bailey is looking to the future before he's looking at winning individual games.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

....................... I still simply cannot understand how Newton stays on our list and Robbo didn't. /quote]

Fairly straight-forward I think. Robbo was out of contract at the end of '09 and Juice wasn't. The error of judgement may have been giving Juice a 2 year contract at the end of '08, but sadly, foresight is rarely as effective as hindsight, and I expect all clubs have a few list 'cloggers' who wouldn't be there had they had the benefit of hindsight.

............ and in any event, retention of Robbo would not have been consistent with Melbourne's longer-term planning. He may have kicked a few goals in one more season, but in all liklihood he would have kept a young player out of the team (and they desperately need game-time), and unless he adopted a vastly different attitude, he would not have set the type of on-field example that the coaching staff would be expecting from a senior player. This point is illustrated by the fact that none of the other clubs were prepared to take a punt on him with a late draft.

Firstly we have more than a few list cloggers. How can Newton be a list clogger when he's not on the list? Maybe a rookie list clogger. Newton is not the problem. The 1 year contract for Miller was an absolute disgrace. Miller would be a lot better off at another club where he can be the 19th man like Leigh Brown where he can throw his weight around, but at Melbourne he has to do a lot more. He is our No2 forward, he has to be more dangerous and kick goals. There is no use trying to be a target if you are just gonna stuff it up when you get it or not get anywhere near the ball they will just continue to double team Jurrah cos Miller rarely hurts teams on the scoreboard. I have no idea what the club see in Miller but they will pay dearly for keeping him on our list like they have for the last 3 years. Am I the only 1 who expects more than very little from Miller? He will never be the answer that Bailey is hoping for he should have learned from Daniher's experience, at least we know Robbo is capable of being the No2 forward he has been doing it his entire career.

[Parma 28]

This is how it should be this year.

FP Jurrah; Will crumb and also take some great marks.

FF Green; Great on the lead, runs straight lines, our best kick for goal.

FP Petterd; Plays 3 inches taller than he is great set of hands, hard to match up on.

F Flank Wonamirri; Quick, reads the play well, will do well running straight at the FF and crumbing also will deliver well.

CHF Miller; Plays alot like Schwartz after injuries, gets his ball in the middle and on the wing, use this and have Davey, Trengove etc run past to deliver to forward line.

F Flank Bate; Will hover around CHF when Miller goes up the ground, Also plays taller than he is, could also relieve Green to run up ground every now and then.

WATTS will push when fit to play in half forward line, will need to push upground like Miller to get his kicks until stronger and confident.

[Adzman 2,085]

The forward line is rubbish because we have drafted a forward line for 2015 not now.

Watts/Jurrah and one co will all be able to pin down a spot in a few season to come, and they will be tough to match up on.

Baily needs to bite the bullet and play some senior footballers inside the forward 50. Put Green and Bruce in the forward 6, i don't care if it hurts us in the back 6, our forward line is hurting more than any possie on the ground.

Grimes & Mac Donald can fill in down back. Steph Martin is not a forward, and should be used down back.

Bate, Miller, Wonna, Petterd, Green and Bruce form a stronger front 6 than throwing the likes of Martin and Jurrah in. They need more time to develop around the ground before being asked to hold down a CHF or FF spot.

Jurrah will be fine, he will bounce back quickly.

Anyone have any hopes that we can get some more development out of Dunn?? Could be a handy player up forward.

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

CHF Miller; Plays alot like Schwartz after injuries, gets his ball in the middle and on the wing

Schwarz knew how to play the game Miller doesn't. Schwarz used to get his kicks at CHB and then realise that he didn't have a CHF to kick to.

[DeeVoted 582]

So far Robbo gets the nod. But the clock cant be turned back. So far all the comments I cant disagree with.

We all have a good idea what we need, who we dont need.

Probably never know what the club offered Robbo,but I would

have told him,his playing days are numbered,and if a young

forward can step up, Robbo could expect to move aside then help out at Casey.

I think he would have (I like too think) he would have offered to help anyway he could.

Miller is never going to be a threat, just seems he hasnt the footy 'smarts'. On Sat he marked 35 mtrs out,then for whatever reason

shot off a handball to a teammate standing next to him,who was just about on the boundardy line. (he got buried)

Not sure how he has stayed on the list this long.

But for now we have to live with it. I had hoped he could be a target up forward.

Newtown tries hard, but hasnt got the strength.

His shots at goal is a major concern for someone that has been earmarked as a KPP.

What he needs to do in turn in a few 'blinders' at Casey.

(i cant see that happening either)

I am really at a loss how the 2 of them have stayed on the list this long.

Martin maybe Garland can be switched to FF / CHF depending

on matchups. But Bailey has to bite the bullet and take a

tall-back from defence and try something up forward (Garland?).

To win games we have to kick goals,then the opposition gets out of their comfort zone,has to come up with something to stop us kicking goals, As it has been its

been our defence trying to stop the slaughter.

When our midfield settles, it will make it easlier to play

up forward with 'quality'ball coming in. Thats going to take a bit of time. Leading forward that run down the guts,and into space help too.Not standing flat footed.

Hughes wont make it,I have had an eye on him for a few years,back even to his Sandy days.he hasnt stepped up. I dont think he will.

Fitzpatrick might be ok in time, (crystal ball is in for repairs).

Morton needs to bulk up,Has the talent. (and a sore knee)

All the others are medium to small forwards.

Any wonder Watts has a sore back,he;s carrying the hopes of a whole forward setup

Keep an eye on Simpson (x Geelong) & Moore at Casey. Maybe worth a look at for drafting next year.

[monoccular 16,062]

Where the hell is DUNN?

[Jack7 463]

The right call was made on Robbo and i'm glad he won't be wasting space in our forward line this season,give those games to a youngster.I don't believe you can play Robbo and LJ in the same forward line as they both fly for everything that comes in and will just get in eachothers way and probably bang heads in mid air.The last 30 games Robbo played delivered how many goals? and when the ball hit the ground which was 80% of the time in the end,he was one of the laziest forwards you saw,he never gave chase and just looked dis-interested.Carlton and the Doggies also made the same call on him,the game passed him by and his one trick got very old and ineffective.

[pitmaster 3,063]

Green to play full forward. LJ beside him. Wonna on other side when fit. Silvia to have stints down there too. (I'd like to see PJ given a chance as well but wait and see.)

Bate one HFF. Miller will play CHF whether we like it or not. Dunn can take the other HFF.

This in the context of Morton's injury which means he will miss at least some of the early stuff. Our options are narrowing.

[Roost It 1,434]

ame='Deeoldfart' date='28 February 2010 - 12:19 PM' timestamp='1267319948' post='305998']

Firstly we have more than a few list cloggers. How can Newton be a list clogger when he's not on the list? Maybe a rookie list clogger. Newton is not the problem. The 1 year contract for Miller was an absolute disgrace. Miller would be a lot better off at another club where he can be the 19th man like Leigh Brown where he can throw his weight around, but at Melbourne he has to do a lot more. He is our No2 forward, he has to be more dangerous and kick goals. There is no use trying to be a target if you are just gonna stuff it up when you get it or not get anywhere near the ball they will just continue to double team Jurrah cos Miller rarely hurts teams on the scoreboard. I have no idea what the club see in Miller but they will pay dearly for keeping him on our list like they have for the last 3 years. Am I the only 1 who expects more than very little from Miller? He will never be the answer that Bailey is hoping for he should have learned from Daniher's experience, at least we know Robbo is capable of being the No2 forward he has been doing it his entire career.

If you must post then can you stop posting the rubbish you thus far have been coming up with. Watch Miller's efforts for a whole match and you just can't find fault with him. Sure he is not the best forward but no one else in our team is either. If you were to take him out of the side as you suggest can you tell me which experienced big bodied player will replace him. Now think before you answer or just use the one I will provide. There is no one else. Stop harking on about Miller. He will be superseded when Watts, Bate, Jurrah and potentially Petterd have developed into a cohesive unit. Even then he may remain in and become quite useful as he draws lesser backmen and is no longer the sole focal point.

As for Robbo, He is done and dusted and rightly so. Time to move on.