Backward Thinking

[titan_uranus 22,538]

They are positioned all over the place but I believe Frawley is better suited to the 'gorilla FFs' and Warnock the fit, quick CHFs.

Well, there you go. I would say that Warnock's better suited to the gorillas, and Frawley to the quicker CHFs.

The last 2 weeks of the season, Frawley was our number 1 defender playing on Fev (7 goals) and Riewoldt (6 goals).

He's more suited to taking the number 3 forward.

BBP, you need to watch the game before you comment on it. As has been pointed out, Frawley was moved off both Fevola and Riewoldt when they kicked their goals. Tanking or resting or rotation or flexibility, whatever it was, when Frawley was on both of them he looked comfortable and competent.

[The Emblem 1]

Well, there you go. I would say that Warnock's better suited to the gorillas, and Frawley to the quicker CHFs.

Agree with you oh clenched cheeks one. Frawley has better closing speed.

[rpfc 27,545]

Agree with you oh clenched cheeks one. Frawley has better closing speed.

Yes, but he is more solid than Warnock and is stronger.

I also don't see Frawley being able to keep up with Riewoldt-like gut running that the best CHFs are capable of.

I see Frawley as quicker but with Warnock having the larger engine.

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,289]

BBP, you need to watch the game before you comment on it. As has been pointed out, Frawley was moved off both Fevola and Riewoldt when they kicked their goals. Tanking or resting or rotation or flexibility, whatever it was, when Frawley was on both of them he looked comfortable and competent.

I did watch both games as I have an international video package. Riewoldt got away from him too easily in the second half. He only kicked 2 goals when Frawley was off the ground.

He was also killed by Buddy in round 9 in the first half.

Frawley was much improved in 2009, but I think he'll be most effective taking on the second or third defender - not a gorilla!

Edited November 3, 2009 by Bring-Back-Powell

[titan_uranus 22,538]

Yes, but he is more solid than Warnock and is stronger.

I also don't see Frawley being able to keep up with Riewoldt-like gut running that the best CHFs are capable of.

I see Frawley as quicker but with Warnock having the larger engine.

You reckon Frawley's more solid than Warnock? Again, I'd have said the opposite.

I certainly don't see Warnock as having the larger engine either.

However, I'm not sure either of them have an engine good enough to keep up with the better CHFs.

I did watch both games as I have an international video package. Riewoldt got away from him too easily in the second half. He only kicked 2 goals when Frawley was off the ground.

He was also killed by Buddy in round 9 in the first half.

Frawley was much improved in 2009, but I think he'll be most effective taking on the second or third defender - not a gorilla!

Agree that Frawley probably isn't the best suited to taking on gorillas. But he did a good job on Fev when he was on him.

Hard to judge any efforts on the second half of the St Kilda match. But Frawley's effort was a lot better than you've given credit for. As I said, he didn't look out of his depth.

[beelzebub 22,240]

so much really depends on who's fit !! Do we get to realy get the opportunity of placing all of them at the same time ?

If fit.. Frawley to FB Garland to CHB..Warnock takes 3rd forward.. Rivers changes off bench

[Jurrah Coffee 0]

Frawley and Warnock should take the oppositions bigs.

Rivers may take medium forward or be loose man. Play similarly to Maxwell.

Garland should take versatile talls and smalls, people like stevie j, brad johnson, mark lecras, etc

Bennell takes the small, quick aboriginal forward pocket

Bruce takes the other forward and rotates with Strauss being the attacking half-back flanker.

[ucanchoose 1,803]

The last 2 weeks of the season, Frawley was our number 1 defender playing on Fev (7 goals) and Riewoldt (6 goals).

He's more suited to taking the number 3 forward.

Roo kicked three from free kicks that weren't there.

[H_T 2,941]

You reckon Frawley's more solid than Warnock? Again, I'd have said the opposite.

I certainly don't see Warnock as having the larger engine either.

However, I'm not sure either of them have an engine good enough to keep up with the better CHFs.

Agree that Frawley probably isn't the best suited to taking on gorillas. But he did a good job on Fev when he was on him.

Hard to judge any efforts on the second half of the St Kilda match. But Frawley's effort was a lot better than you've given credit for. As I said, he didn't look out of his depth.

Before the start of last season (2009), I reckon Warnock was more solid, however Chip is a solid unit now and I think he is capable of taking on the gorilla's, as is Warnock.

As rpfc said it will depend on who has the bigger engine to stand someone like Riewoldt. The FD has the luxury of two KB's who can play on certain types and it gives the team flexibility.

[Demon trucker 1,776]

I don't like having 4 talls in the back half it doesn't give us the run that we need. Warnock and Frawley are certainties Garland is injured so that gives Rivers a head start. McDonald, Grimes and Bruce should play all over the ground depending on match ups. Morton will play a part in the back line as well.

B: FRAWLEY, WARNOCK, BRUCE

HB: GRIMES, RIVERS, MORTON

McDonald and Bennell to start on the bench.

i dont like it

[Demon trucker 1,776]

Before the start of last season (2009), I reckon Warnock was more solid, however Chip is a solid unit now and I think he is capable of taking on the gorilla's, as is Warnock.

As rpfc said it will depend on who has the bigger engine to stand someone like Riewoldt. The FD has the luxury of two KB's who can play on certain types and it gives the team flexibility.

you are out of your mind

[H_T 2,941]

At least you fit the description of the thread topic.

[rpfc 27,545]

This is a tad inconclusive at this stage.

Of the 46 individuals who felt McDonald would play in midfield next year, only 27 objected to him being in the defensive seven players with another 6 individuals saying he won't be in the best 22.

It points out to me that some on here have a little trouble filling out polls.

I'll give it a little longer but it is looking like a plurality would like to push McDonald into the midfield and bring Bennell into defence.

I'll explain the ramifications of that in the analysis.

Edited November 4, 2009 by rpfc

[Fat Tony 4,449]

I would like to give Scully a year in the back pocket. It is the easiest place to learn and become comfortable with the pace of AFL footy.

I also don’t think Junior should be an automatic inclusion in the team next year. While he is probably still in our best side and still our best leader, I think we should be getting games into players like Maric and Dunn to give them the best chance to make it. Others which might also provide greater long-term benefit include Petterd, Bennell, Blease, Jetta and Strauss.

Fat Tony’s Potential Side

B Garland Warnock Scully

HB Bruce Frawley Grimes

C Morton Moloney Trengove

HF Green Bate Sylvia

F Jurrah Martin Wonaeamirri

Fol Jamar Jones Davey

Int Maric Dunn Rivers Watts

[LITTLE STINGA 1]

i dont like it

why

[rpfc 27,545]

I would like to give Scully a year in the back pocket. It is the easiest place to learn and become comfortable with the pace of AFL footy.

I also don’t think Junior should be an automatic inclusion in the team next year. While he is probably still in our best side and still our best leader, I think we should be getting games into players like Maric and Dunn to give them the best chance to make it. Others which might also provide greater long-term benefit include Petterd, Bennell, Blease, Jetta and Strauss.

Fat Tony’s Potential Side

B Garland Warnock Scully

HB Bruce Frawley Grimes

C Morton Moloney Trengove

HF Green Bate Sylvia

F Jurrah Martin Wonaeamirri

Fol Jamar Jones Davey

Int Maric Dunn Rivers Watts

McDonald is captain. Difficult to not pick him.

And I rate Petterd above Dunn, but to each their own.

[45HG 1,539]

B: Frawley Warnock Bennel

HB: Strauss Garland Bruce

C: Morton Moloney Blease

HF: Bate Watts Sylvia

F: Davey Jurrah Green

Fo: Jamar Grimes Jones

Int: Martin Scully Trengove McDonald

E: Rivers Aussie Petterd Maric

Jetta

Dunn

Miller

Bartram

Cheney

Meesen

Johnson

McNamara

Bell

Newton

Bail

Buckley

As usual, I rate Petterd but just can't find a spot to put him in and I'd like us to start the year with the captain in.

Midfield rotations would include: Bruce, Green, Bennel, Scully, Trengove and Davey. I feel Green will start the year in the middle which could put Petterd into a pocket and one of the youngsters (Scully, Trengove, Blease) to miss out. So much depends on the off season and fitness obviously, but I'd rather see those youngsters getting a game with Green up forward and Petterd able to come in to fill gaps.

The "outsiders" are pretty much roughly how I rate them.

[Fat Tony 4,449]

The fact that McDonald's spot in the side is debatable is why he should not be captain. We have to get games into our young players.

[mauriesy 6,815]

The fact that McDonald's spot in the side is debatable is why he should not be captain. We have to get games into our young players.

McDonald's spot in the side is not debatable. He is the captain, for his obviously excellent leadership capability, therefore he gets a spot. A ship without a captain to steer it does not know where it's going, and can easily run aground.

[Fat Tony 4,449]

We should be having this debate. The facts are that James McDonald turns 34 next year and we have been on the bottom for two seasons and are still several years away from our premiership window. He won’t be there at that time.

IMO the captain should both be guaranteed and deserve a spot in the side for the whole season. I don’t believe it is in our long-term interest for McDonald to be given such a guarantee as his presence in the team prevents one of our younger players getting a game. We have undertaken a path of rebuilding through youth. Now is not the time to be half pregnant.

[Nasher 33,130]

We should be having this debate. The facts are that James McDonald turns 34 next year and we have been on the bottom for two seasons and are still several years away from our premiership window. He won’t be there at that time.

IMO the captain should both be guaranteed and deserve a spot in the side for the whole season. I don’t believe it is in our long-term interest for McDonald to be given such a guarantee as his presence in the team prevents one of our younger players getting a game. We have undertaken a path of rebuilding through youth. Now is not the time to be half pregnant.

It's a balancing act. He might not necessarily be best 22 by EOY, but omitting him from the side may introduce a leadership vacuum that is hard to fix. Without being inside the club it's really hard to know the dynamics of the leadership group on field, but by all reports McDonald is by far the most important cog in terms of leadership. You only need to read the Sylvia article posted on melbournefc.com.au to learn what he means to the players. The fact that he won't be around for our next flag push is completely irrelevant IMO. The players who are there now still need leadership.

And people have been saying "McDonald won't be part of our best 22 next year" on Demonland for as long as I can remember, including last year, and it's never happened. He was still best 22 at the end of 2009 and despite his age, it wouldn't surprise me if he's still hanging on in the best 22 at the end of 2010. I've completely given up on writing him off; I've been proven wrong every single time.

[mauriesy 6,815]

I don’t believe it is in our long-term interest for McDonald to be given such a guarantee as his presence in the team prevents one of our younger players getting a game. We have undertaken a path of rebuilding through youth. Now is not the time to be half pregnant.

He is the captain, for obvious reasons. He plays unless he's injured.

If he can have this sort of influence on a somewhat wayward player like Colin Sylvia, and get him playing good, focused football, then his influence on other younger players will be just as great:

""He's just got such a good footy brain and in life as well. He will listen to you, but he will give you advice straight down the line as well. He's an old-fashioned country guy, who won't beat around the bush - he'll tell you how it is," Sylvia said.

"It's taken him a long time to get where he is - probably five years ago no-one would've thought he'd be where he is now. He's become one of the best leaders at the club [and] he's respected that much it's unbelievable.

"He does everything so professionally and always does things right. He's someone you can really look up to."

Minor point: McDonald will be 33 all of next season (he'll turn 34 after the season ends, when he most likely retires). Many players of McDonald's durability have plenty of playing capacity left at 33.

[rpfc 27,545]

THE POLL ANALYSIS

We have a pretty decent cross-section so I will try to pull a few things out, although one area is less than clear but it may be cleared up the 'Middle Ground' thread.

52% believe Bruce will play predominantly in the backline. 42% midfield.

53% believe McDonald will play predominantly in the midfield. 47% defence.

83% believe Frawley, Rivers, Garland, and Warnock can play together in the same backline.

44% would like to see Bennell and 30% would like to see Strauss in the backline, instead of one of McDonald (28%), Bruce (22%), and Grimes (20%). 19% felt that those three plus the 4 talls should be the backline in 2010.

A slight majority see Bruce in defence and McDonald in the midfield, however the latter conclusion is clouded, if not rejected outright, by the polling results on the 'Middle Ground' thread.

At this stage, posters are comfortable with a base defence of Frawley, Rivers, Garland, Warnock, Bruce, Grimes, and one of McDonald and Bennell. Hopefully that last slot will clear up in the midfield thread.

[H_T 2,941]

B: Rivers Warnock Bennell

HB: Strauss Frawley Bruce

C: Davey Moloney Blease

HF: Morton Watts Sylvia

F: Bate Jurrah Green

Fo: Jamar Grimes Jones

Int: Martin Scully Trengove McDonald

E: Garland Aussie Petterd Maric

Next: Jetta, Dunn, Miller,....

Was tossing up between Garland & Rivers for starting 22, now decided on who will be fit for Round 1, at this stage it's Rivers.

Would like to see the youth where possible. If we obtain Scully & Trengove through the draft, which appears likely from all reports, I think they will be ready. Would like to see Strauss at half back, with Bruce on the other flank. Other defenders: Warnock, Frawley in the two key posts with Bennell and Rivers.

Midfield: Davey and Blease to provide alot of coverage and precision kicking/linking. Moloney Jones and Grimes in the middle with Jamar in the ruck.

Forwards: Morton and Sylvia to flank Watts at CHF, with Bate and Jurrah to continue their good form up forward. Green to come into the forward line and provide another target.

Back-ups: Martin to relieve Jamar and also provide Bails with options (ie up forward). Scully & Trengove to provide more run and rotations through the midfield (Trengove perhaps back or forward as well), as well as McDonald, who can alternatively be used down back and provide good leadership when and if needed in midfield.

[45HG 1,539]

Our teams are fairly similar HT and as such I think your team is pretty much spot on!