Paul Johnson- full forward

[pitmaster 3,561]

I know how many don't rate Johnson on this forum but consider that PJ:

1: CAN take a pack mark;

2: IS a fine kick;

3: HAS the body to bust packs in the air and on the ground to create opportunities for small forwards.

With Wona as a crumbing forward in one pocket, and Jurrah as a leading forward from the other pocket, and with some mix of Bate/Watts/Sylvia/Green at half forward we should try to see if Johnson can cause some uncertainty in the forward 50.

I am assuming Miller contineus to play his natural game pushing upfield and giving Bate/Jurrah and Watts some space to work.

One issue is whether PJ can develop some consistency. Another is whether he can get to enough contests to have an impact.

But I still think it's time to settle Johnson and persist with him for five or six weeks at FF with Jamar working the rucks except in the forward 50.

[torpedo 33]

I would say pack marking is one of PJ's weaknesses. And as for pack busting, the whole problem with PJ is that he has the body to do lots of things but seems to lack the ability to use it, in particular he seems totally devoid of presence & aggression for a big man, which are generally the hallmarks of successful big forwards.

PJ has been trialled at full forward several times both last season and in 2008, the fact that you haven't mentioned this highlights how much of a non-event it was.

I agree with the current calls for Brad Green to be played at full forward. Massive tangent here but I think he could play on for another 4-5 years in that role which would make drafting a player able to play full forward less of a priority. All clubs need to draft key position players on an ongoing basis but I think we'd better placed from a list management point of view drafting in key position players who are versatile and capable of playing back or forward, rather than a Butcher type who seems rather one-dimensional.

[rpfc 28,502]

I know how many don't rate Johnson on this forum but consider that PJ:

1: CAN take a pack mark;

No he can't. He can take a mark on a lead. Jamar can take a pack mark, Johnson can't.

2: IS a fine kick;

True.

3: HAS the body to bust packs in the air and on the ground to create opportunities for small forwards.

He HAS the body "bust packs in the air and on the ground to create opportunities for small forwards."

But he doesn't.

Some guys just never realise how to use their God-given advantages to their...well, advantage.

He plays small; he is a winger trapped in a ruckmans body.

He would play a lead-up role in the forward line in 2010 if he were there and Green would be better option in that role as he has won a final off his own boot playing that role.

I think we all remember that game...

[Travman 0]

He's probably better suited to a running role off HBF than deep in fwd 50

[torpedo 33]

He's probably better suited to a running role off HBF than deep in fwd 50

Good golly, thats probably become the most important role in the modern game, that would be an absolute disaster.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

It's been tried before. He simply doesn't have the ability to play key position roles. He's gone forward before; his kicking for goal is no good. He might have the body, but as rpfc said, he doesn't use it.

Like many, I'd rather Green.

[Daz's Dee's 113]

Well i tend to agree with this topic i have suggested somewhere else He has the potential to do so, IMO he isn't a great ruckman but certainly part time ruck work in the forward line may compliment his style of play, it was only 3 years ago (from memory, don't quote me) that he was the joint winner of the Liston Trophy (VFL best and Fairest) playing mainly CHF he is a good kick for goal but yes as pointed out pack marking seems to be a weakness being a big body as long as he is making the contest he may learn how to take more contested grabs his still reasonably young but did have a pretty ordinary year....

I still beleive that Jeff White could have been a very good CHF but was burnt out as a sole ruckman for too many years IMO anyway thats the past.... and too tell you all the honest truth i am very F@#*ing excited about the future

[Travman 0]

Good golly, thats probably become the most important role in the modern game, that would be an absolute disaster.

sorry, that was my joke for the day. he missed his calling as an on-baller imho.

PJ at FF at Casey is fine by me. Jamar is the better option as a pinch hitting fwd swapping in the ruck. He actually can take a contested mark, can kick the odd goal, does make a contest and does bring the ball to ground.

If PJ can't make it as a ruckman then the club should cut its losses.

[Rogue 585]

I know how many don't rate Johnson on this forum but consider that PJ:

1: CAN take a pack mark;

2: IS a fine kick;

3: HAS the body to bust packs in the air and on the ground to create opportunities for small forwards.

I see PJ in a different light to you on pretty much every aspect.

How many times has he taken a pack mark (1)? Not very often. He fits the 'big man who doesn't realise he's big' stereotype and I believe the Coach has even commented on this before.

If he did play forward he wouldn't be giving us the tall 'get out' option because he doesn't play the 'pack busting' style (3). If he was a forward he'd be more of a leading forward.

While I do think PJ is a good kick (2) his kicking for goal has let him down on the occassions he has played forward.

[pitmaster 3,561]

I see PJ in a different light to you on pretty much every aspect.

How many times has he taken a pack mark (1)? Not very often. He fits the 'big man who doesn't realise he's big' stereotype and I believe the Coach has even commented on this before.

If he did play forward he wouldn't be giving us the tall 'get out' option because he doesn't play the 'pack busting' style (3). If he was a forward he'd be more of a leading forward.

While I do think PJ is a good kick (2) his kicking for goal has let him down on the occassions he has played forward.

Actually, you don't so very much see him differently.

He can take a pack mark but doesn't very often. I concede that. But his size gives him the potential to attack contests and create spillages. If he holds one in five, that'll do because his kicking is a strength.

As for what was tried in 2008, torpedo, for reasons I won't go into, I did not see that season at all so he might have tried and failed but I would like to give him a few weeks of certainty down there rather than merely experimenting.

It's clear Jamar is our best ruck option, and for mine, Newton does not read it well enough, or kick well enough, to take the FF spot and will not make it.

As for Green at FF, which some suggest, he might make do in a Brad Johnson role but I prefer the more traditional model of a big bugger up there creating a little chaos because I think Wona and others could make something out of it. The Doggies forced reliance on BJ is what has held them up all this time.

[rpfc 28,502]

PM - I can understand the desire to put a 'big bugger' up in the forward line but PJ is not that bugger.

Jamar can, and will, go forward to provide a target - and he actually knows how to use his frame.

In fact, I would prefer Jamar take every centre tap and then go forward, leaving Martin to follow and link if it is absolutely necessary for a ruckman to follow and link (I don't think it is, but I guess someone has got to take the ruck in the back half...).

[davey_magik 1]

This has been tried before and didn't work.

PJ can't take big marks and has NO physical presence, which is very frustrating when the guy has the athleticism and size to be a very good player.

[Adelaide Demon 0]

The guy cannot occupy a place in our 22 unless we have a dozen+ players injured.

[Rogue 585]

Actually, you don't so very much see him differently.

I still think we differ on all three points.

He can take a pack mark but doesn't very often. I concede that. But his size gives him the potential to attack contests and create spillages.

I'll concede that he seems big enough to do so but when has he actually done it? Why should we expect that his game will change, given he's ~25 and hasn't shown it yet?

If he holds one in five, that'll do because his kicking is a strength.

Unfortunately, while I agree that he has a decent kick he hasn't converted when he's been played up forward in the past.

I prefer the more traditional model of a big bugger up there creating a little chaos

I like this too but PJ's not the guy.

[Carlos Danger 380]

Ideally somebody with a stronger lead would be better suited to full forward, I think PJ is your standard ruckman who can also kick goals, that doesn't make him a full forward. Then factor in playing against the opposition's best defender, I really can't see him doing a whole lot up forward.

[H_T 3,049]

How many times has he taken a pack mark (1)? Not very often. He fits the 'big man who doesn't realise he's big' stereotype and I believe the Coach has even commented on this before.

If he did play forward he wouldn't be giving us the tall 'get out' option because he doesn't play the 'pack busting' style (3). If he was a forward he'd be more of a leading forward.

While I do think PJ is a good kick (2) his kicking for goal has let him down on the occassions he has played forward.

Agree with all of what you've said here in relation to PJ.

I'll put my hand up and say that I had high hopes for him during last season (2008!). I thought he would have come on in 2009, but he hasn't. He had plenty of opportunities to show his wares in the forward line.

PS. I chuckled at Sentra's initial comment. Quite amusing Sentra.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I think PJ is your standard ruckman who can also kick goals, that doesn't make him a full forward.

He does not do either with any real proficiency.

[Demon Tragic 0]

He would play a lead-up role in the forward line in 2010 if he were there and Green would be better option in that role as he has won a final off his own boot playing that role.

I think we all remember that game...

Sigh!! What a day!!

[ChannellingHopgoodAgro 4]

I agree with Pitmaster here. Disappointed in PJs development in 2009 but I don't think he actually gets enough time up forward.

Sure he's been used there before but it seems as though it's 5-10 minute stints

[drdrake 3,178]

I think he would be a good leading forward, but I would rather have Watts and Jurrah in this role. My problem with Johnson is he is a big man, big body, but plays like a small skinny player. No contested marks, doesn't really bust packs open and is better suited to running around by himself.

Jamar is a better forward option and is still not a good one at least he creates a very good contest and if he doesn't grab it the ball will come to ground.

[beelzebub 23,380]

Unfortuanately for PJ ( and us as a result ) he is one of a number of NQR's at the club currently who , should they not find : another yard of pace/ another foot of leap/ another 5kg of body or simply like the Lion the bravery to use what they have that they will fall off the ledge come end of season 2010.

Am disappointed with PJ.. but hes not alone ( nor am I )

[deanox 9,931]

i dont think he has a long term future in the ruck (the only thing saving him atm is that we dont have any ruckmen that are any good, and that ruckmen are not cheap commodities).

I would hope that he is focusing on these things over summer:

-endurance (allowing him to run all day and follow around the whole ground without needing a much of a rest)

-body strength (just getting him to run into people, throw his weight around etc)

-handballing (his kicking is lovely, but his handballing is decidedly average, and because they are poor he costs us. he needs to learn how to get a qucik handball out to a running player)

if he can improve on 2 of those three areas (all improvable imo, but i doubt he will improve that much) then he will have a chance of making it.

ps itd be nice if he could take body on body pack marks, but he cant so...

[Pipefitter 2,163]

He can play any position he likes. As long as its for Casey.

[Roger Mellie 4,034]

He can play any position he likes. As long as its for Casey.

Agree entirely! Apart from his obvious shortcomings as stated above - cannot read the play!

[Swampfox 190]

One of a full forwards *must haves* is the ability to read play

Kicking straight also helps

PJ does not tick either box