Dean Bailey

[Jaded No More 58,591]

On the radio b4 the game, Schwaby was saying that DB is here for the long haul. So I would get used to his face if I were everyone else.

Good to hear.

The last thing we need right now is a coach change or instability.

DB has a plan, a game plan that he believes can win us finals (and a premiership), and unlike in previous years, he is out to find players who can deliver the game plan, as opposed to moulding a game plan around players who are not up to it.

With each passing game, we are discovering who can and who can't deliver the goods.

It would be so easy to change the game plan to try and master a few meaningless wins, but that would only inflate the value of players who are not up to it, and push us further and further away from a premiership.

To expect miracles 18 months into a rebuild is completely irrational. To expect improvement isn't, and we have shown considerable improvement this year.

The thing to remember is that young teams, particularly young teams with a young spine and senior players who play periphery roles, is that inconsistency is a given. We haven't got any senior players who we can rely on to give us a steady performance, with the possible exception of Green, who himself is no match winner.

As a club, we learnt as much from yesterday's debacle as we did from our 7 point loss to the Dogs or our victory over Richmond.

[Roost It 1,434]

Correct thread. I agree.

My one worry was that collingwoods squad was collectively 5 years younger than ours. That really concerns me. Bails must now get Tough. Real Tough.

That's a play on numbers. Take Robertson for Martin and Whelan for Bennel and then we are 5 years younger. It's that simple. Not to mention we don't rely on any of our older players which they do (Didak, Lockyer, Fraser and co) We also haven't seen Strauss for JMac, Blease for Bruce. Jurrah or Spencer for Johnson. We are plenty young enough and it's just Mick being his usual crafty self.

[Supreme_Demon 3,011]

Kevin Sheedy was interviewed for the job and gave the most disinterested and unfocussed presentation to the selection committee. He was not interested.

Very disappointed to hear that Kevin Sheedy behaved that way for a coaching job interview?! I would've thought he WANTED another chance to coach a new team after nearly 30 years at Essendon.

But I've always suspected that Kevin Sheedy has had a hatred for Melbourne. <_<

While I won't say that Dean Bailey is no good. We do need to see more improvement and that means WINNING!

I won't expect too much from this year...but next year we need to see a serious amount of improvement in the team's performances. Dean Bailey has been saying all the right things and doing well off-field but it is ON-field with the team's performances that counts.

Our "competitiveness" has been slowly getting better these past few weeks. But yesterday against the SCUM (Collingwood) we certainly took about 2 steps back and both the coaching staff and the players need to take responsibility for this.

[H_T 2,941]

We should all study the coaching careers of Mark Thompson and Alistair Clarkson for a bit of education. Both lacked supporter confidence in the first couple of years of their appointments, because their sides were losing while trying to build the list and develop the football basics. There were more than a few calls for their sacking.

Correct.

[Sir Why You Little 34,688]

That's a play on numbers. Take Robertson for Martin and Whelan for Bennel and then we are 5 years younger. It's that simple. Not to mention we don't rely on any of our older players which they do (Didak, Lockyer, Fraser and co) We also haven't seen Strauss for JMac, Blease for Bruce. Jurrah or Spencer for Johnson. We are plenty young enough and it's just Mick being his usual crafty self.

Of course we rely on our older players, They went missing & didn't help the younger guys. That's why we got Flogged!! Our experienced players got carved up by 18-19 year olds!!

[jnrmac 19,182]

Analysis of defeat.

LACK OF RUNNING BY DEMON PLAYERS.

Poor skills.

That's it.

[Roost It 1,434]

Of course we rely on our older players, They went missing & didn't help the younger guys. That's why we got Flogged!! Our experienced players got carved up by 18-19 year olds!!

We are rebuilding and players such as Whelan, Robertson, JMac and even Bruce are no longer are best players and we won't need them when we are again challenging, thus we don't rely on them.

[Sir Why You Little 34,688]

We are rebuilding and players such as Whelan, Robertson, JMac and even Bruce are no longer are best players and we won't need them when we are again challenging, thus we don't rely on them.

They were still there to do a job yesterday & Failed though. Those guys are supposed to "Lead & Inspire" the younger guys. Sylvia Moloney & Davey were the on ly 3 to earn their pay.

Yes the old guys are not in the long term plans but they are very much needed in our present structure.

[Roost It 1,434]

They were still there to do a job yesterday & Failed though. Those guys are supposed to "Lead & Inspire" the younger guys. Sylvia Moloney & Davey were the on ly 3 to earn their pay.

Yes the old guys are not in the long term plans but they are very much needed in our present structure.

Totally agree but my point is that as a club Collingwood can't do without their odler players if they are to challenge. We however. at our stage of development don't rely on the older guys, most of whom will be gone at years end anyway, making us far younger than Collingwood

[Sir Why You Little 34,688]

Totally agree but my point is that as a club Collingwood can't do without their odler players if they are to challenge. We however. at our stage of development don't rely on the older guys, most of whom will be gone at years end anyway, making us far younger than Collingwood

Can see where you are coming from but i do not entirely agree. We do rely on our older players, but in a different way to our young guns. And it was the older players who let down the club yesterday (Matty Bate Tried Real Hard-i am not going to diss him)

Our older players did not fire a shot yesterday-I have watched this exact scenario too many times over 45 years. It is exactly why opposition clubs do not respect & Fear us. The older guys have a job to do & Must Stand up. We do rely on them to do a job. Run to the right spots, even shepherding. Knowing which kick to use. Split second decisions. If only Cam Bruce could kick, because he is always putting in, it just doesn't come off enough.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Unfortunately turnovers kill us, but that's skill-level - not game plan.

I'd love to see a statistic for the number of turnovers Melbourne creates through chipping the ball short or sideways when there are no options long to ahead to go to.

So often there is a turnover because the option is a bad option. However, as bad as that option is it is often the only or the best.

[Rogue 585]

I'd love to see a statistic for the number of turnovers Melbourne creates through...

The best statistic would be the percentage of your posts that are related to forward line structure

[Swampfox 190]

We should all study the coaching careers of Mark Thompson and Alistair Clarkson for a bit of education. Both lacked supporter confidence in the first couple of years of their appointments, because their sides were losing while trying to build the list and develop the football basics. There were more than a few calls for their sacking.

Add Ross Lyon to that list and your on the button

[grazman 6,548]

We should all study the coaching careers of Mark Thompson and Alistair Clarkson for a bit of education. Both lacked supporter confidence in the first couple of years of their appointments, because their sides were losing while trying to build the list and develop the football basics. There were more than a few calls for their sacking.

Good point Maurie,

From what I've seen and heard of Bailey so far I think he's the man for the job, further more I'd extend his contract right now - especially if we're planning ahead to secure a priority pick (and at 1 and 10 we should be).

[Deeoldfart 7,800]

............................... We massively overhyped the game which gave Collingwood all the ammunition they needed to hit us hard, which they did. To right off the coach is absurd ...........................

Captured in a nutshell!!

[Swampfox 190]

Give me an easier question.

In a year and a half, he's shown no evidence of being a good matchday coach, nor an ability to inspire the team.

The Bailey apologists can't use an interupted preseason or injuries as an excuse this year. I wonder what excuses they'll come up with now.

So you have seen no improvement in the team from his first 12 months ?

Vacating Carroll was a bad decision ? and Johnson , White and Yze ?

I could go on but its hard to break the spell of tunnel vision that you seem to have

problem is you create sheep that follow you on a pointless crusade of doom and gloom

Bailey supporters are not making excuses because we all know how long it takes to develop a list from scratch

Bailey has to contend with the financial matter of contracts and some decisions not of his doing may be temporarily tying his hands

We have no Richard Pratts at Melbourne

The bodies of boys into men takes time and if you have forgotten this is a body contact sport

Give Bailey enough time to turn over the list

Would like to remind you of Clarkson , Thompson and Lyon

The Hawks hit rock bottom and got lucky with a few Richmond dud picks (in hindsight to be fair) while the Saints and Cats almost did

Using the Saints list as an example they lost Harvey and gained a few others but overall the list hasnt really changed much since Lyon took over and even during the end of the Grant Thomas reign

When you go on about match day prowess what would you expect to learn from Bailey,s match day ability with a team of underdevelped players and in many cases players who are not even AFL standard as apposed to making an assesment about a team that is currently playing well like the Saints with Ross Lyon at the helm

In a few weeks Lyon will have his chance versus the benchmark of the competition The Cats

When Melbourne is in a similar position only then will it be a worthwhile analysis

IMO Bailey is a very qualified teaching coach

His media ability is second to none and i really like the way he listens to the question being asked and thinks about his answer before giving it

whether he becomes excellent in both development and match day savvy is far too early to say

The guy needs TIME and SUPPORT from us all after all BAILEY is also LEARNING

What baileys problem will be is that at the end of his contract he has advanced enough to convince the MFC board to allow him to finish the second and third phase of the journey

I along with other Bailey supporters are hoping he can

To the Bailey knockers I really dont care what you think as your not prepared to be patient

I am

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Absolutely pathetic thread. Of course he is up to it - in fact, I see him as a very long term coach of this club.

[col=sk 0]

Agree with above

[Einstein 1]

We should all study the coaching careers of Mark Thompson and Alistair Clarkson for a bit of education. Both lacked supporter confidence in the first couple of years of their appointments, because their sides were losing while trying to build the list and develop the football basics. There were more than a few calls for their sacking.

This is the truth.

Fact is, a full list rebuild is a five year proposition. No doubt we will have to show improvement next season in terms of winning or else Bailey will begin to come under some fire. But right now, winning isn't everything. It's about developing a list and a best 22 or so that can eventually begin to put the wins on the board. Our improvement this season is evident and significant.

And as for the suggestion that was should have hired Kevin Sheedy, am I the only one who thinks our list would be a complete mess after two or three years of Sheeds? Would he have had modesty to bottom out and endure 3 or 4 win seasons? Would he have pulled the trigger on the careers of White, Yze etc? Would he have just attempted to top up our list with mediocre veterans in an attempt to merely play finals football? Personally I am glad we didn't hire Sheedy. Bailey is our man, and at present I can't see any reason why he wouldn't have the full support of each and every club member.

[Jaded No More 58,591]

Any idiot can take a top list and win a premiership (Bailey would win a flag with Geelong, so would bloody Mark Harvey), but only truly great coaches can build a list from scratch. The beauty of what someone like Mark Thompson did, is he got his club to where it is today, and anyone could now take over and still be rewarded with success.

Many good coaches have failed at clubs that had terrible lists because they refused to turn them over and there was no patience from supporters.

Bailey needs only two things; time and resources and I firmly believe he'll develop a list that is capable of winning games and sustaining success. Even if he ultimately doesn't coach us to a premiership, the foundation he is building now is going to be a massive factor in any future success we're likely to have.

I for one hope he gets rewarded for all his hard work, and I think he will.

[timD 994]

Issues about Bailey would and should crop up - we should keep watching him. As for whether he can coach, well, I wnder if you could already argue that Bailey has been more successful even in his short tenure at building a premiership side than Wallace was with the Tiges.

[DeeBest 13]

As for whether he can coach, well, I wnder if you could already argue that Bailey has been more successful even in his short tenure at building a premiership side than Wallace was with the Tiges.

That's clutching at straws.

Bailey has won 4 from 33 - a 12% winning strike rate.

In Wallace's four years at Richmond prior to this season his winning strike rate at Richmond was 40.25%. Doing the maths and including this year his strike rate at Richmond finished on 37.4%.

Peter Rohde's Western Bulldogs coaching record was 45 games for 9 wins - a winning rate of 20%. And that was bad enough to get him sacked.

At the end of this season Bailey will have coached 44 games at the MFC and quite possibly he'll only have six or seven wins beside his name. God help him if the club doesnt win another game and he sits on 4 from 44 at the end of the year. That'd be 9% and I dare say the worst coaching strike rate of anybody in the modern era.

[mo64 5,218]

......

List management is one small part of a coach's responsibility. The fact that he's cleaned out the old brigade and is bringing in kids does nothing to prove that he is a good matchday coach, nor has the ability to inspire the players.

Read my posts from the start of last season. I've said all along that his gameplan was doomed for failure because his core midfield were incapable of making it succeed. Nothing has changed in the past 18 months to change my view. Our core midfielders in McLean, Moloney and Jones struggle with running the lines, and nothing will change in the next 2 years unless Bailey intends on trading them.

And don't give me this sh#t about being young, and needing time to develop. It's generally accepted that games are won or lost in the middle. In the games against Hawthorn and Collingwood, our midfield was older and more experienced than both of these sides. The fact that Bailey couldn't work out that Mitchell and Pendlebury needed to be shut down, says alot about his matchday coaching ability.

At the start of the year, I said that our percentage, rather than win/loss record, would be a true guide to whether we have improved. A percentage of 70-79% is ordinary, and anything less than 70% is pathetic. We are bordering on being pathetic.

With the exception of Garland and Wona, we have our best 22 on the park, and according to the coach, we had a far superior preseason compared to last year. So we should have improved on last year.

Certain individuals may have improved this season, but where is the collective improvement in the team? I don't see it.

Contrary to most, I actually think our list isn't bad, and that's not taking into account unseen kids in Strauss, Blease and Jurrah. That's why I believe that we should be performing better than we are.

[grazman 6,548]

At the end of this season Bailey will have coached 44 games at the MFC and quite possibly he'll only have six or seven wins beside his name. God help him if the club doesnt win another game and he sits on 4 from 44 at the end of the year. That'd be 9% and I dare say the worst coaching strike rate of anybody in the modern era.

As compared to say Alistair Clarkson who had 14 from his first 44... or Brett Ratten who lost how many in a row? What's your point exactly - you appoint a bloke to do the dirty work, then hatchet him after he delivers the goods (rebuilding through the draft). Maybe DB and the club are a lot braver than you're prepared to give them credit for. - BTW how do you think the search for the Richmond coach will go if they say that he needs to have a least a 25% ratio from his first two years?

[1858 224]

List management is one small part of a coach's responsibility. The fact that he's cleaned out the old brigade and is bringing in kids does nothing to prove that he is a good matchday coach, nor has the ability to inspire the players.

Read my posts from the start of last season. I've said all along that his gameplan was doomed for failure because his core midfield were incapable of making it succeed. Nothing has changed in the past 18 months to change my view. Our core midfielders in McLean, Moloney and Jones struggle with running the lines, and nothing will change in the next 2 years unless Bailey intends on trading them.

Correct. When you struggle to run the lines you are limited with your attacking options and to a degree with your defensive ability. Bailey understands this and will address it with respect to drafting. If you think that McLean's lack of pace is some how Bailey's fault then go figure.

And don't give me this sh#t about being young, and needing time to develop. It's generally accepted that games are won or lost in the middle. In the games against Hawthorn and Collingwood, our midfield was older and more experienced than both of these sides. The fact that Bailey couldn't work out that Mitchell and Pendlebury needed to be shut down, says alot about his matchday coaching ability.

Moe, you know very well that the main tagger we have used inside the midfield has been McDonald and he has simply struggled. We don't tag out guns like Mitchell and Pendlebury because we can't - it is that simple. Bailey knows exactly what is going on in the middle and how it needs to be addressed but if you don't have the cattle then you are in trouble. Bartram is a secondary tagger for the outer players more often than not and he is hit and miss at the moment.

At the start of the year, I said that our percentage, rather than win/loss record, would be a true guide to whether we have improved. A percentage of 70-79% is ordinary, and anything less than 70% is pathetic. We are bordering on being pathetic.

Last year we copped 100 point beltings, apart from the two Collingwood games this year most of our games have had respectability on the scoreboard. When you consider what a shambles our forward set up is and our lack of corridore running power it shows how much more competitive the team has become.

With the exception of Garland and Wona, we have our best 22 on the park, and according to the coach, we had a far superior preseason compared to last year. So we should have improved on last year.

Certain individuals may have improved this season, but where is the collective improvement in the team? I don't see it.

Contrary to most, I actually think our list isn't bad, and that's not taking into account unseen kids in Strauss, Blease and Jurrah. That's why I believe that we should be performing better than we are.

We are still moving kids in and out each week, we have a plethora of neither here nor there utilities that are being given their last chances to perform. Our forward setup has hardly stayed the same from one week to the next. Game day tactics and coaching will come to the fore once Bailey has established the blue print of the team he is happy with. I am not saying that we can't play smart football but it takes conviction and confidence in your fellow players to be a running and linking team and one or two slower players in the middle can drag the others down with them especially when they are important players who are hard to replace due to lack of inside depth.

The dissapointing thing about the Collingwood game was that we let ourselves down with the basics that we had built on. Our manning up and zoning was non-existant. Although it must be hard to get our zoning right with the changing of positions and ins and outs every week I agree that this should be better. Our forward structure is not helped by the forward line being a drop in centre but I must agree with others that we could do better with how we place certain players closer to goal and create more options, atm there is no purpose to how it is set up.