Saturday Talking Point: The NAB Challenge

[Whispering_Jack 28,004]

The tennis is over, the local international cricket finished and the only sport of any note on the horizon is the football - and by that I mean the real football and not soccer, rugby or gridiron.

Which of course means that the NAB Challenge is not far away.

MFC's elite performance manager Dave Misson reckons the Demons will attack the NAB Challenge with gusto and field strong teams - We’ll attack NAB Challenge: Misson but does it matter and do we really care?

[beelzebub 22,225]

Fluffy practice footy. Good for a hit out...that's all. It's still not the real game for 4 points. 

 

[Wiseblood 24,636]

I'm not terribly fussed with who we play - we will rest some, trial others and generally look at the list as a whole - but I'm far more interested in looking at some of the changes we've made to our game plan and seeing how Goodwin goes in the coaches box.  

If I can see some positives there, and we can limit our injuries, then I'll be happy.

[dazzledavey36 48,869]

Hate the Nab challenge due to potential injuries but understand the big emphasis on Match fitness and tune up for round 1.

[Damo 2,997]

If we play well, its vitally important.

If the annual pre-season over-expectations bring us back to earth, then its an unnecessary distraction.

[daisycutter 28,589]

nab means zip, zero, zilch, nada.   it only gets serious on round 1

nevertheless we will expound terabytes of useless words examining it to the nth degree

[Macca 16,173]

Practice well and no injuries thanks ... the 2nd bit is a big ask though.

Are we at that stage where we do away with actual matches and just do intra-club stuff?

In other sports, the best players get very limited game time or don't play at all ... the way our sport is played means the players are highly susceptible to injuries even when there's absolutely nothing to play for.

I wouldn't play Hogan* at all in these games ... and there are a number of others who can just step up to the plate with just a good amount of normal training. I understand that injuries can and do happen in the real stuff but let it happen in the real stuff.

The sport has been fully professional for over a generation now and whilst some of the old ways are best, these practice games are often quite irrelevant. Training methods and simulations have largely replaced the need for full-on practice games.

*Hogan missed a whole year after sustaining a back injury in a pre-season game.

Edited March 3, 2016 by Macca

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

I don't think we have the luxury to treat the pre season with contempt, whilst the club has improved out of sight off the field as a footy team we have a long way to go. Reading Friday's training reports one poster describes the "full ground drill as having low trajectory passing, powerful, flat and accurate" whilst another wrote "skills difficult due to wind and there are numerous turnovers from missed kicks or errant handball. Monday's training report read "the match simulation stuff was very scrappy" but by all means let's rest our senior players for the first two games and bring them in for a bit of a run around for the last game. I don't think the players have taken ownership yet, I don't think some of them know what it even means. We are struging with the concept of quick ball movement, some players simply don't have the skill level required. I'd like to think players like Frost/Bugg/Kennedy go hard and push for round 1 selection, Watts was dropped for rd 23 last year, he needs to impress, if he is to play as a permanent fwd lets bloody bloody see it, whenever practicable his leads must honoured. With the loss of Melksham we need to trial some other options off half back.

 

[Slartibartfast 15,807]

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

I'm not terribly fussed with who we play - we will rest some, trial others and generally look at the list as a whole - but I'm far more interested in looking at some of the changes we've made to our game plan and seeing how Goodwin goes in the coaches box.  

If I can see some positives there, and we can limit our injuries, then I'll be happy.

How will you judge Goodwin's performance?  What specifically will you look for?

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

30 minutes ago, Macca said:

Practice well and no injuries thanks ... the 2nd bit is a big ask though.

Are we at that stage where we do away with actual matches and just do intra-club stuff? (if that)

In other sports, the best players get very limited game time or don't play at all ... our sport means the players are highly susceptible to injuries even when there's absolutely nothing to play for.

I wouldn't play Hogan* at all in these games ... and there are a number of others who can just step up to the plate with just a good amount of normal training. I understand that injuries can and do happen in the real stuff but let it happen in the real stuff.

I stopped looking at these games a long time ago ... the sport has been fully professional for a generation now and whilst some of the old ways are best, these practice games are often quite irrelevant. Training methods and simulations have largely replaced the need for full-on practice games.

*Hogan missed a whole year after sustaining a back injury in a pre-season game.

But the problem is Macca we are struggling at training, we have players that still struggle with the games basics. The introduction of quick ball movement is clearly troubling some. 

If we are to rest players I'd only rest Jones, Vince, Hogan, Tmac and Garlett. 

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

2 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

How will you judge Goodwin's performance?  What specifically will you look for?

- Do players understand/stick to the game plan.

- Players dropped (more so regular season) for non performance.

- Fighting out every game until the end regardless of result.

- Do the players come to play every week.

[binman 38,465]

By the by the NAB game against the dogs is out at craigeburn and the capacity is only 6k. With a membership you can get a ticket but have to pay $5. Sounds a bit funny but i reckon it will sell out so i bought my ticket already as even with a membership you won't get in if all tickets are sold

Tickets can be bought here:

http://premier.ticketek.com.au/shows/Show.aspx?sh=NABCHIG16

 

 

[Slartibartfast 15,807]

6 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

- Do players understand/stick to the game plan.

- Players dropped (more so regular season) for non performance.

- Fighting out every game until the end regardless of result.

- Do the players come to play every week.

Wiseblood said he also wanted to see how he went in the coaches box. 

BA if the players fail in the areas above is that Roos or Goodwin's responsibility.  And how do you assess the line coaches and the development team. I'm interested in people's views because I think it virtually impossible from the outside to attribute success and failures to specific coaches. 

[Macca 16,173]

57 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

But the problem is Macca we are struggling at training, we have players that still struggle with the games basics. The introduction of quick ball movement is clearly troubling some. 

If we are to rest players I'd only rest Jones, Vince, Hogan, Tmac and Garlett. 

We can practice all you've mentioned at training

I understand that the bottom team's supporters look at these games differently to how supporters of other teams do and ... then there's how the actual teams view these games. Most clubs treat the games with a good deal of contempt.

I look at it as if I was actually at the club ... so, simulated practice and other training methods are enough. There are some obvious benefits to having practice games but the risk of injury is a major factor also.

Our sport is hard to play in a soft manner ... unless both teams agree to that concept - even if that happened, what would be the point?

Of course, a player can get injured at practice but the risk of injury is much higher in match conditions. Weighing it all up, I don't see a need. However, the games will still be played regardless of my view.

The bit of your post that I've highlighted is interesting ... supporters of the Hawks would probably have a list of 20+ players that they wouldn't like to risk in these games.

Of course, I'm still going to watch our games but my main focus will be that none of our players sustain injuries. Many will view the games in the same way (when it comes to the crunch)

 

 

Edited February 6, 2016 by Macca

[Wiseblood 24,636]

20 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

How will you judge Goodwin's performance?  What specifically will you look for?

I know you're probably looking for an argument here, but I'll clarify what I meant:

I'm basing how he goes in the coaches box on how we play in the NAB Cup - what changes does he make?  How does the game plan look?  Does he seem to do anything different to Roos?

I'm not looking to be critical about his performance, more that I'm looking forward to seeing what he will do differently when he is given the chance to be the 'coach'.

[Delusional demon 82 1,196]

50 minutes ago, binman said:

By the by the NAB game against the dogs is out at craigeburn and the capacity is only 6k. With a membership you can get a ticket but have to pay $5. Sounds a bit funny but i reckon it will sell out so i bought my ticket already as even with a membership you won't get in if all tickets are sold

Tickets can be bought here:

http://premier.ticketek.com.au/shows/Show.aspx?sh=NABCHIG16

 

 

Surprised it's not being played at the Whitten oval. From all reports the NAB challenge game there last year was a huge success and pulled a sizable crowd plus a great atmosphere.  Would also have been great to once walk to the footy from home to watch the mighty dees play.

[Good Times Grimes 2,396]

I like the NAB Challenge for the chance to look at the new recruits. It's hard to read into the result too much, but it gives you a decent idea as to whether the youngsters are up to it or whether they need some time at Casey. 

I'm hoping to get a look at Oliver, Hulett, Wagner and Weideman. Not sure if we'll see Petracca or not.

[beelzebub 22,225]

25 minutes ago, Good Times Grimes said:

I like the NAB Challenge for the chance to look at the new recruits. It's hard to read into the result too much, but it gives you a decent idea as to whether the youngsters are up to it or whether they need some time at Casey. 

I'm hoping to get a look at Oliver, Hulett, Wagner and Weideman. Not sure if we'll see Petracca or not.

I don't treat nab with contempt as some might think I'm just very matter of fact. 

The competition as a competition is meaningless. As a hitout against a real competitor it has real value. 

Buts that's all. A chance to blow out cobwebs and see theory played out in practice. I wouldn't overly even concern myself with the scoreboard but its an opportunity to see how the game plan plays and who does what and who doesn't.

Handy for evaluation.

That's all

[Wrecker45 3,378]

2 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

But the problem is Macca we are struggling at training, we have players that still struggle with the games basics. The introduction of quick ball movement is clearly troubling some. 

If we are to rest players I'd only rest Jones, Vince, Hogan, Tmac and Garlett. 

I'd add Gawn to that list even though he has played little football and only a handful of good games. Outside of Hogan he is the player we can least afford to lose through injury.

[Deecisive 1,652]

I see the NAB challenge as being pretty important to the club. If we go out and get whooped then some supporters may be turned off signing up. If we go out and play attractive football we may attract a lot of new members. This is the first time we get to see some of the young guns, which is important to for the players themselves as well as the members. They put in a good game or two and they may begin playing round 1, they don't, we may not see them at all this year. Quite frankly I don't understand why the MFC is not doing more to have replays or streaming of Casey games so diehard fans can follow their progress of our new players and draftees. It is also a chance for us to see how the game plan comes together in a real game and to tweak it before the season begins. And lastly we have not had that many wins over the last 20-50 years that we can write off a chance to get another one up on the competition.

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

5 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Wiseblood said he also wanted to see how he went in the coaches box. 

BA if the players fail in the areas above is that Roos or Goodwin's responsibility.  And how do you assess the line coaches and the development team. I'm interested in people's views because I think it virtually impossible from the outside to attribute success and failures to specific coaches. 

 

5 hours ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Wiseblood said he also wanted to see how he went in the coaches box. 

BA if the players fail in the areas above is that Roos or Goodwin's responsibility.  And how do you assess the line coaches and the development team. I'm interested in people's views because I think it virtually impossible from the outside to attribute success and failures to specific coaches. 

As for my third and fourth point I think they go hand in hand "fighting out every game until the end and coming to play every week"but in fairness they are now the responsibility of the players and the leadership group, I'm not sure what else the coaches can do. 

My second point is probably only relevant to the regular season, and when a player is dropped its for a minimum of two weeks, they've been dropped for a reason. What needs to happen is probably the opposite and by that i mean we (against my wishes) won't field our best 22 until the third game if at all. So we take the opportunity to look at a few players. From memory we have extended interchange?? With regards to the kids I would for example say to Hulett for the first game you are playing the first half at full fwd, then regardless whether you kick 1 goal or 7 your subbed off and guaranteed to play the first half of game two. Oliver plays on ball for the first half then regardless of his stats is subbed off and guaranteed to play game two. Give these kids the confidence to go out and play their natural game backed with the knowledge they can afford to make mistakes.

As for my first point, understanding and sticking to the game plan and your question how do we asses line/development/head coaches....I think my concern regarding the gameplan stems from reading training reports, I'm worried that we might go from one extreme to the other, from full on defence to flat out attack, our execution may not be there but the intent will or our players not understanding the gameplan and revert back to old habits. I'm judging Goodwin on the gameplan, the gameplans relevance and the players game sense and as a team have we found the balance between the two (attack and defence) and do the players understand what's required of them. Line coaches are ultimately under the direction of the head coach, I will be judging them on how our backs and forwards structure up and the midfield on how they match up, how we perform at clearances/stoppages as well as how midfield rotations are handled. Development coach/es will be judged by the individual skills improvement of our players in particular our 1-3 year players. Note I believe the coaching group as a whole has given up on some senior players and see them as purely holding the fort until our younger players are ready.

I was under the impression that Roos always intended for the first 1-2 years to be centred around defence. Once that was sorted he intended to increase of attacking capability. Does he have an attacking gameplan or does the timing of the transition year with Goodwin work in his favour. Would it of mattered if he did as our list has been so ordinary it they wouldn't have been able to execute it.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2016 by Bombay Airconditioning

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

3 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

I'd add Gawn to that list even though he has played little football and only a handful of good games. Outside of Hogan he is the player we can least afford to lose through injury.

Fair call, I was actually thinking of him before. 

[qarocks 101]

5 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

- Do players understand/stick to the game plan.

- Players dropped (more so regular season) for non performance.

- Fighting out every game until the end regardless of result.

- Do the players come to play every week.

This, plus 60-75% less basic skill errors for no reason.

[Yossarian 1,808]

At this stage of the off-season, I'd go see a Collingwood v GWS exhibition match at Etihad Stadium if they were playing tonight.

[Bombay Airconditioning 5,941]

3 hours ago, Wrecker45 said:

I'd add Gawn to that list even though he has played little football and only a handful of good games. Outside of Hogan he is the player we can least afford to lose through injury.

-