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Not that this is remotely remarkable here, because we're all passionate Demons supporters, but this is how I feel right now. A bit of background. Amongst my friendship group, I'm one of only three MFC supporters (I live in Sydney). I'm known to be strangely addicted to the club. In 2004 and 2005, when I worked in a large law firm in London, I had my parents record every Demons game and air-courier the VHS cassette to me each week at a cost of 80 bucks a game. I watched every game 'live' at 10pm each Thursday night. My son, Henry, is the youngest ever member of the club. I signed him up as a 20 week foetus during the Neeld years. The club accepted his application. I agreed to act as his proxy. He is now 4 years old, but he's in the system as being a member for 5 years. Anyway, what I'm saying here is that I passionately support this club. And I have done so for a very, very long time - Jack Viney style. Relevantly, I know its history. Better than most. I spoke to Neale Daniher following our horrendous loss to the Swans at the SCG in round 5, 2003. I told him that I thought the club got it massively wrong in letting Woewodin and Powell go. He strongly disagreed. He nearly lost his job at the end of that year (we had both hands on a preliminary final the year before but for savagely bad luck against the Crows), and I'm sure a wiser and more reflective man (legend that he is) would now agree with that view. Trading Watts, a supremely talented player who clearly loves the club, is a bloody disaster. It's unlikely that it will improve the list in any material way. In short, this the lowest I have felt in all my years supporting this club. And I've not experienced that many highs during the journey. To the sociopaths who don't see the value in this stuff, it's exactly why Paul Roos was brought in to change the culture of the joint and it's exactly why Watts will have several better clubs courting his services right now. The human stuff is important to the fabric of this club, to any club. And I fear that Goodwin is a little nerd with a blind spot on this who, like Neeld, might be destroying something very important here. This sucks. I feel very sad.

If predictions like that came true, the league would consist entirely of Scott Pendleburys.

When Lever said - 'I will go into the draft' - we gained leverage. When we found out about how the Crows acted when meeting with Mahoney and Viney we gained leverage, with him being disinvited from the B+F we gained leverage (perception in press only - makes it harder for them to stonewall), and when he polled outside the top 10 we gained leverage. ND10 and ND45 or a pick swap in the second round. We acted in good faith with offering a fair trade and their petulance should not be rewarded.

Lever shits all over Howe

I understand the angst on here about the decision to trade him, but I'm mystified as to why people can't understand that it's happening. Forget the on field stuff - in his 9th year at the club, he was unprofessional in his preparation during pre-season and then didn't do the right things when he got injured either. Clearly, the club has had enough and feels as though they have come as far as they possibly can with him. Yep, he is a nice bloke who brings some good skills to the table. But our list is largely made up of youth and we need to be setting the right example for them. Watts clearly can't do that, even though he's been in the system for 9 years, and it's apparent that the club don't want that around the club anymore. And while some aren't happy how it's played out, Watts' own manager praised the club for how honest and transparent they have been since it's all unfolded.

I'm not a great fan of Watts the footballer. I haven't been for a long time. But it will be bloody sad to see him go. He's impossible not to like and his foot skills are superb. Not to mention, he loves the Dees.

Ok. I said before I wasn't going to add anything else here and I have been trying to wean myself off this thread.....BUT......the smell keeps getting worse and worse around here (and I don't think its coming from Mrs Chewy). What I don't understand is that if Jack came back, in what has been put publicly out to everybody, in such a "poor" condition (although I've heard he did a PB in his 3km time trial), how is it that he was able to get himself back up into good enough condition to play the first round? Would that be physically possible? And, if his condition was so poor, how hard would he have had to have worked to have got the nod to play the first game. Particularly because they clearly (correctly) have the intention of not ever wanting to "gift" him (or any player for that matter) games. And, if he had in fact turned up in as poor a condition as what has been suggested (though I have my doubts) I wouldn't have thought it possible for him to 'recover' the required level of fitness as quickly as he did - fit enough to go straight into the ones without any playing time in the JLT or in the 2's. Add to this the inconsistent, changing explanations coming out of the club since this first came out, and there's pieces that just don't fit together. Also, given that he did play in the first round, I assume that he must have worked his backside off to get to the level of fitness required and 'made amends' for whatever his indiscretions, if any, may have been. What a fantastic example to the younger players that must have been to show that if "you do the crime you do your time and you work your f***i%ng backside off to make amends". But it's Jack, so of course we don't put the positives out into the public about him. We whip him harder. And, Jack is a pretty bright kid. So when he says he was shocked by coach Simon Goodwin’s desire to put him on the trade table, does anybody else other that me wonder whether Goodwin had been performance "managing" him through the season at all? Surely it would be in the Coaching 101 manual that a player should always be aware of how he is performing related to expectations. I know that's how it is in the business world anyway. You know, continual feedback. I would have thought it would be even more fundamental in elite sporting organisations. Particularly given MFC has been working with Leading Teams which is all about blunt and open honesty. So it disturbs me greatly that Jack was shocked. If he knew it was coming I have no doubt that he would have put his hand up and said that they had discussed it through the year. Watch how Jack handles himself tomorrow at the B&F if you have any doubts about that. He is certainly a young man of integrity. Just stinks!! And stinks of a place where we've already been.

Balic yes. Watts has options galore. Devastated but going.

I have lived through the exit of many good quality players from the MFC - Stan Alves, Greg Wells, Ross Brewer, Gerard Healy, Earl Spalding, Alan Jakovich, Shane Woewodin, Jeff Farmer, Scott Thompson, Junior McDonald, Tom Scully, Jeremy Howe and now, possibly Jack Watts (I'm sure there are many I have forgotten to mention). Many of those players went on to be successful clubs and some got to play in Premiership teams. Most Demons supporters were sad, disappointed, angry and sometimes distraught (or a mixture of several emotions) at the loss of these players at the time they left. It is fascinating to see the emotional reaction to the possibility of Jack being moved on. It feels like it is more divisive than any of these others. If you look at the poll on this post it would seem pretty clear that a majority would like him to stay and that some of those who think it is best for him to move on are nonetheless, still sad about it. It seems that "there's something about Jack". We have all invested a great deal of hope and good wishes towards this young man. He just seems like a lovely young bloke who happens to have tremendous talent. On the one hand, we feel bad that he has had to suffer so much public scrutiny and derision but we are also frustrated that he has never been able to be the player that we wanted him to be. A friend of mine (a Geelong supporter), has been ranting at me for the past seven years about how "Melbourne will never be any good while they still have Jack Watts!" That he symbolises all that is soft and unprofessional about the club and that "he will not go when its his turn to go". (A Geelong mantra from their recent successful period). I have always replied with, "Yes that's true but I would rather the ball in his hands than any other player." I would staunchly defend him from the emotional part of my being as well as the tribal loyalty to the Dees. It's weird how these attacks on him have elicited this emotional response from so many of us. Now it looks like the club may be fed up with him and are questioning the same courage and resolve that my Geelong friend has. For many of us, this is really hard to take. It may be the right thing to do for the future of the club and building a winning culture but it may also be fracturing in the short term. We just don't know. The one thing most of us agree on is that we don't like seeing Jack being publicly rejected by a club that has been his home since 2008. It is very difficult to watch a person having their character and reputation denigrated in front of the whole community. I feel very sad about it but also acknowledge that, it may be, for the good of the club and the player. We just don't know yet. If he goes to Collingwood or Geelong it will be hard to watch him realise his potential at the new club. It will be even harder, and more heartbreaking, if he disappears in to obscurity and suffers as a person. For that reason I wish him all the success in the future.

Scott Thompson just thanked the MFC for 4 great years with us before he moved to the Crows. Thanked us also for drafting him in the first place. Fantastic to hear from Scott. Wish him well in retirement.

He’ll sign with Geelong on Monday and will be told not to attend. He won’t poll a vote.

A few of the lads from the local footy club are regulars at the gym. They saw our two boys there.

I hear young Jake attended a boxing session with Jack Viney at Richmond Boxing this morning. Adelaide who????

Adelaide are so pist off because they know how good he's going to be. He plays the modern zoning game to perfection. He reads the play better than anyone else, he knows exactly the right time to leave his own man, and he either takes a brilliant intercept mark, or kills the contest with his fist of fury. He's not fast, but he is agile, he usually hits his targets by foot, and he's renowned in Adelaide for his sidestep. He also has courage. We're talking about a guy who is 13 days older than Oscar McDonald. How much improvement has Oscar still got ? Lever's the same, only far more talented. Oscar can play with Lever for the next 8 years and he'll learn from him. Lever spent 3 years with Talia, which will only help. And let's not forget that Lever was made captain of Vic Metro as a bottom age player, i.e. too young to be drafted that year. Let that sink in. How many bottom age players are chosen to captain their state ? He captained Petracca and would also know Brayshaw well. This is a terrific coup for the MFC.

See ya Slim. Go and follow lawn bowls, badminton or synchronised swimming then. Fickle supporters who declare throwing away their membership over a bloody trade can GGF in my view. After the torrid world of septic pain we've endured in recent times, if you can't stick fat now when things are on the up, you've got the constitution of a used tea bag. IMO, the MFC is coming out of puberty and finally growing a set of balls by making tough list decisions and cutting Watts adrift. I think its time the supporter base grew up a bit, too.

Thinking of the Bluey and moving past this, now moot, debate - I was wondering what kind of speech I would make as a coach to that group and with that platform. Jack will the there of course, and there will be those bidding him farewell and there will be those still smarting from the end of the season. The message from Goodwin and Mahoney has been that Watts is being moved on for a lack of commitment and preparation to being a professional footy player. The merits of that message are not for debate here - that is the message. So when it comes to Goodwin's speech he doesn't need to make an overt statement about that, and it would also be overtly 'on the nose' to make any more references to it with Jack in the room. If I was Goodwin, I would go a different route and try to thread a needle on a message of thanking Jack for his service, and making a point to the players that remain that they are officially out of excuses: '...and that was my thoughts on this season. Which brings me to tonight, tomorrow, the summer, and the future; to the sometimes brutal honesty we deliver each other, the tough decisions we make, the effort we put in when no-one is watching and the reward we get for that in the future. We will be saying goodbye to a few Demons tonight; (naming all delisted Demons)... and the incredibly loyal Demon Jack Watts. A few words on this impressive young man; Jack will soon start a new chapter in his career and all of us in this room want to see you succeed and want you to know how thankful the Melbourne footy club is for your contributions to the club over the past 9 years. Jack put up with a lot over his time at this great club. A few years ago, when the club was not-so-great, Jack was placed on an unreachable pedestal. He was lauded as the saviour of a club that one player could never save. When things didn't go well, the first and last Demon that was criticised and dissected was number 4. He unfairly drew the attention of a rabid media and a disappointed and angry fanbase over most of the ills of the club. This has struck me the most since becoming head coach was the amount of attention afforded to the tall, blonde role playing flanker with the killer right boot... Moving forward into the future without Jack, my message to the players, footy department, and admin that remain is that we won't have that convenient distraction anymore, the scapegoat to all our problems won't have that burden - we will all have to shoulder that burden ourselves. There will be a renewed focus for this club on those that deserve such inspection and attention - starting with me, Peter, Glen, the Leadership Group, and our on-field performances will no longer be seen through the lens of 'Jack Watts and the Melbourne Football Club' - we will all now share that burden. I hope you are all willing to work hard this off season so that you are ready for that bright light of inspection come next season...(pause for effect, and I would look at a couple of players in the eyes) Thanks Jack, and we all wish you the best in your next chapter.' That's the kind of address I would make...

Correct me if I’m wrong Doc but I’m picking up a bit on a bit of a vibe that you don’t rate Watts?

I like Jack Watts the person. On the field he does things that make me shake my head in disbelief, unfortunately these are at both extremes. I feel sorry that we did not set him up for success in his early years but he is now a man who has had great support and development around him and needs to take accountability for not maximising his potential in the last 3 at a minimum. He is a 150 game player with one top 5 B&F finish for a club that has been appalling for most of his time. This year he featured in our best players only 6 times but never in the top 2. He is not quite a key forward and not quite a mid and he is too inconsistent to be a quality flanker. He may become a better rounded player but why that would occur in an environment he is comfortable in, surrounded by his mates, where he is adored by most supporters and sponsors is beyond me. It is most likely that we continue to see the cycle of promising games and then a loss of consistency as hard work does not come naturally to him. It is highlighted how much he is loved by team mates which to me highlights the risk that his ways tarnish the young guns we are trying to develop in our new culture. The old trade week adage of you've got to give something to get something is exactly what we are seeing with interest in Jack but truthfully this is so much more than the pick or player we get in return. This is us shedding the final parts of our old culture. This shows that close enough is no longer good enough, inconsistency is not excused and skirting by on potential is not acceptable. After seeing us do everything we could to not take a final spot in the final 2 rounds it is exactly the type of ruthless shake up that I was hoping for. All the best Jack.

Sydney paid a million smackers a year for Turk Kippet, Geelong recruited Mitch Clarke, Bulldogs spudda Cloke, no they don't see things differently, just recruit different duds.

You don't know that. They could well be into Jack knowing full well his shortcomings and agreeing with Mahoney - but for whatever reason it's either a) not an issue for them (strong culture already in place?) or b) they think that in a new environment they can turn it around.

Not such a big deal about Lever not turning up to the Crows B&F. At least he turned up for the Grand Final which is more than you can say about Tex.

It still annoys me that people take such great delight in players being delisted. It seems unnecessarily spiteful to me. It was obvious to everyone that Kennedy would be delisted. You can't play zero games at his age when fully fit and expect to survive. There's no need to dance on his grave.

Wouldn't it be funny if JW got up to make his speech and declared he's staying??! Wowee! Biggest moment since the bomb hit No 96 and Mr and Mrs Gondolfus were written out of the show!

I think you are being naive. This is a culture decision. The club values preparation ond the contest and Jack falls short on both. It's about whole club performance

I think Adelaide are now sh-tting on their brand.

Read the Herald Sun article. Despite the fiction here, he's ranked 'elite' for forward pressure stuff. Just look at the stats.

This has been the most interesting (riveting almost) debate I have read on Demonland. Strong and reasoned arguments from both camps. During Jack's career with us, I have both defended him and abused him. Currently, and having read a large proportion of the above posts, I'm just plain [censored] confused.

38 goals in 2016 on track until injury this year and doesnt always play as deep foward and he has some of the most sublime footskills I have seen , so the replacement for this season is?

My only wish is for a team made up of players who are going to give 100% on and off the field at all times - and for a club and coaches who do everything they can to make that happen and take the necessary steps when it doesn't.

That's true, and you know what, they'll probably get the best out of him....but I just don't think we ever will given the history and more particularly, how comfortable he is at the club. 2016 he was very good but he had to go to another level this year and he only did it in patches - even before his injury. Footy is littered with players who needed a kick up the bum and to go to a second club to fulfil their potential, and it wouldn't surprise me if Jack is one of those. I'm going to miss him but when Goodwin, Jones and Mahoney say the sorts of things that they are, it's clear that they have good reason for letting him go.

do you consider Jacks Footy to have not been pretty decent in 16/17.. forget all the stuff about off field...just for the moment view his ON FIELD presence For mine he had a cracker 16..and a very decent 17 before injury. What say you good sir ?

This whole Jack Watts thing is so Jack Watts.

Matt Taberner and Harley Balic to the Dees for Dean Kent and Pick 45. Freo want more... so may involve a shuffling of picks depending on the Jack Watts situation. Kent is also not keen on leaving Melbourne and acknowledges he had an inconsistent year due to ongoing back and hamstring strains. I must say Taberner is an ideal replacement for Watts at 199cm and runs all day like a young Nick Riewoldt and could potentially play second ruck. Hopefully we can land both at little cost.

Exactly. I can forgive him for anything in the Bailey and Neeld years - he had zero support, our coaching and development structure was a joke and there was no positive atmosphere or discipline to help him get better. But when he reached out to Roos and wanted to get better, he did... for a time. Roos still had to give him some tough love and dropped him. That's fact. He then had a terrific 2016 and then backed that up by being totally unprofessional in his commitment to the pre-season program. That, I'm sorry to say, was his choice, and his choice alone. Clubs these days are very clear about expectations and he failed to meet his. That is totally down to him. I know he is a great bloke and some are worried about losing a terrific user of the footy, but at the same time, we need to see the bigger picture. For so long our younger kids have lacked the right leaders who set the standards for the footy club. We are beginning to add more of these to the club and Roos has helped us in a big way in this regard. Watts, as a senior player, clearly doesn't hold these standards as seriously as the club expects, and they don't want that to influence others around the club. To me that is more important. I really like Jack and have always wanted him to succeed. But this is a line in the sand moment for the club - we are letting go one player who hasn't been professional enough while bringing in a bloke who is touted as super professional and already a leader at 21 years of age. Time will tell of course, but to me it's a positive and important step forward for the club.

Mr Burgundy i can feel your pain. But this has to be Jack’s doing The club wouldn’t be doing this for any other reason. Goodwin has set his standards and JW isn’t reaching them or is flaunting them. It has to be one of the 2 if Goodwin relents now we are back to being an irrelevant joke. Even in the last week, maybe Jack just doesn’t get it? hopefully Jesse can play the Watts role...

I agree and didn't want to clear him or Dunn and now Jack. However, I am a fan and I have to trust the people that PJ trusts to get the job done. I have no other choice. This is a tough call that is polarising, but tough calls often have to be made. It may be a good call, or a bad call, history will tell us that. ATM it is the call and the club has to move on and try to keep improving. I will trust this FD to get that job done. If they fail, they will go. Time to show support for the club.

I am extremely disappointed and angry about this decision. My 5 year old son has the number 4 on the back of his jumper as would a lot of kids of his age bracket. My concern is that is a rookie mistake by a rookie coach which will destroy the culture that Roos established. For those happy about this move I wonder how you will feel when Watts makes the difference at a Geelong or a Sydney that gets them to a GF. Watts is entering his best years and will stand up in finals. He was much better than some of our bulls in the final round. I love this club and I hope that sanity prevails.

There is a lot in this. Must be a very sour taste in mouth current for the lad. Id be feeling dead awkward turning up Monday night knowing all those eyes are on you, all the whispers. Be a real mixed bag of feelings. Its easy to fotget hes only midway or so through his twenties. A lot of people are quick to hang it on him. Hes far from the perfect footballer but hes an ok guy , well liked, quick to be community involvemed. Just making his way in the world except unlike the majority of us he does this under a constant spotlight with many just salivating at the suggestion of a trip up. I think he handles himself with great aplomb all things considered. He wont be in Red and Blue next year. I think it might have been 3 or 4 so months ago i posted something along the lines that it wouldn't surprise me ( back then ) if he was elsewhere next season. The wolves were circling, baying for blood, needing their sacrifice to the "culture gods" . The Spanish Inquisitors would be most impressed. There's so much of a " he's innocent if drowned, otherwise burn him" about Jack's journey. Brought in as the Saviour and pilloried for be just a good player, not the dilverer of success. Hes human , not an Adonis after all. He was/is always just a player. He's been judged and sentenced upon the demands imposed by a club and its fans starved of glory. So when the truth outed ; he's not the Messiah, just a naughty boy (as judged by those looking for someone/something to personify a clubs frustration ,and failure )...it was inevitable....Stone him, Stone him ! After the bloodletting and the mopping up at the Alter of Expectation the Club, its administration, its football creationists are going to have to damn well succeed lest the gaze and scorn fall upon them.( Where probably it ought be all along ) Seems prevalent among human conditions to seek an entity other than yourself to justify action. MELBOURNE will need to own everything about this,learn and move on. History's page will always be there to remind us, and them.

possibly a lack of trust brought on by unpressured chest marks bouncing off him repeatedly. If a guy can't mark, you end up looking for a safer option. So many here have their "Good guy" blinkers on. We need to back our footy department, who are being criticised for having the temerity to put together a premiership side. I will miss the great guy Jack. I will never miss the one arm window dummy posing as a marking forward.

They've cracked the sads. That's all.

So the situation is that Jake Lever has probably missed out on a top 10 placing in the Crows' B & F after finishing in 15th place last year and they're asking for a first round draft pick or two just like that?

I've said this once before, but my eldest Brother was on a plane a few years ago and the Melbourne players got on. Jack walked down the aisle smiling and saying hello to everyone. In that regard, he's one in a million.

Its all over folks. No more angst and hand wringing required. Jack will farewell the team at the B&F. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/teams/melbourne/jack-watts-to-farewell-melbourne-as-clubs-line-up-to-acquire-the-former-no1-pick/news-story/57a7ef5a6c8ebaf9a5a023e377652ad1 Only one quote to take from the article: "Melbourne spearhead Jesse Hogan would prefer to keep Watts and is believed to have told his teammate as much when they spoke briefly last week". Teams in the running: Port, Geelong, Sydney and apparently StKilda have contacted him. Good Luck young man. Go and prove all the doubters wrong. I will cheer you (not your team) whatever colours you wear. Thanks for the memories, loyalty to my beloved Demons and sticking with us when we were a basket case. During that time you were a rare bright spark on rainy winter days at the G. So, so sad to see you go.

AA squad refers to the 40man short-list before its culled to make the AA team.

Doesn’t get top 10 in b&f but want 2 1st round picks, tell em there dreamin

That's the way the cookie crumbles. Coach has lost faith in him and so has a third of demonland. We understand footy is a business now and we need to remove those that underperform. Yet each time we lose a favourite son, I always feel a little more disconnected with the club and the game. There are definitely players you love and go to the footy to watch, and Watts is one of them. True that team success is the ultimate goal, but the real truth is that you haven't invested emotionally in half the squad as you have had with Watts. We have learnt to both love him and at other times hate him for his flaws. I really hope the club doesn't lose its soul completely. Guys like Frawley and Howe wanted out. Watts stayed when he could have left years ago for more money. He loves the club.

We should invite Jake Lever since the crows banned him from theirs..

I have mail, mainly fines and warrants though. Some bills too and definitely paying overs.

If players are disgruntled then good. I hope they are. I hope our precious players are made to feel really uncomfortable. They are going to have to start getting uncomfortable if they want to win a flag. They are going to have to fight for everything they have. I like that. I am no Goodwin fan, but if he is starting to p*ss off our playing list then he has my full support.