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Why are we splitting hairs about Daniel Cross? He was sensational for us, but clearly we made the right decision. It's not as if we went backwards when he retired. Strange discussion to have.

It will also be interesting to see how Geelong goes both with this rule and the deliberate ducking-no free-play on rule. With Biclavs and the Selwoods being the rolled gold standard of both it may unfortunately negatively impact their ability to win games.

Any thoughts on Gawn at stoppages with no third man up? Cam Mooney on SEN yesterday predicting MFC to score heavily from stoppages. https://www.sen.com.au/news/2017/01/24/malthouse-third-man-up-ban-is-great/

If Oscar is now 97kgs, then Jayden Hunt is easily 110kgs.

Tingay pretty stiff to miss.

Is Watts 93 kgs? If so, he's now in the zone. AA is a possibility this season.

Congratulations. I am neither obstetrician nor midwife, but I guess conception needs to occur about now.

He creates space, and then we don't kick it to him!

Sorry to ambush thread, but I'm tipping a top 5 Brownlow finish for Wattsy...

Not troubled at all by the two MacDonald's plus Frost being our KPDs.

Ok, playing devil's advocate here... What would everyone be saying on this thread if the police had used their guns to stop this guy but in doing so (before finally killing or disabling the driver) a stray bullet hit and killed a person? The outrage over the fact that the police had used live ammunition in a heavily populated area would be just as bad as what we have now, but instead of the police being attacked over their lack of action, they would be attacked over their actions. Or let's say that they try to ram the driver, or to block his path, but in doing so, the driver leaves the road and plows into pedestrians with the same, or worse, result as played out in the actual event... again, the police would be attacked over their actions. In saying all of that, I have no idea what could have been done to prevent what happened once it had gotten to the stage of a police pursuit... all I know is that for the police it is a damned if you do/damned if you don't scenario. The fact that the guy was released on bail (?) has created an impossible situation...with his history, that should NEVER have happened.

Have you read the ingredients on the side of a can of Red Bull? WADA would have a field day

Oscar is now listed as 196 cm & 97 kg, the same height as Jack Watts and 4 kg heavier. Can those that regularly attend training see the difference in his physical stature?

As someone earlier pointed out, if one club gets such sponsorship, eventually so do all the others, so it just means more and more money around the sport. But what does that really do for the spectator experience? Not much except for improving TV coverage. The game was just as exciting and absorbing to fans 50 years ago as it is today. Sure the players are fitter and being full-timers are somewhat more skilled, but is that worth all the crud which more and more sponsorship brings. Thank god for the salary cap and may it long be rigouously enforced.

It's heartening to see someone in the media consistently rate Melbourne. Not the first time Mooney has pumped up our tyres in recent times.

I don't like energy drinks so I would prefer to be the Campbell's Chunky Soup Demons or if we're looking to expand into Europe perhaps the Dolce & Gabbana Demons.

No way. Ridiculous. Monster Energy Drinks is the way to go. We could be the Monster Demons. Have MotoCross riders and monster trucks flipping around the G before every match. That's the Carrum Downs market cornered. Dancing promo girls and fireworks... sign me up!

Don't know if serious...? You know we have a completely new team right? I saw quite a bit of the women's VFL last year (a lot of one particular team which will probably be obvious) so can give a semi-educated opinion on our and other teams' recruiting. I was disappointed overall with our draft haul, predominantly with our lack of a proven key forward which I think will prove to be our downfall during the season. Daisy is obviously a great get. Hickey was a bit of a reach as a marquee player but getting Paxman as a priority makes up for that. Overall our drafting was VERY young/inexperienced. A good proportion of our team seems to be just out of youth girls or new to footy in the past couple of years so much like GWS or GCS' first few seasons I expect that we will struggle early despite good top end senior players but should be a force in a couple of years. We were unlucky to be the last Victorian team to pick as Lambert, Stevens and Jakobbsen are all guns. O'Dea was a solid pick but Berry was too early IMO. She has great skills and potential but hasn't really proven herself yet (played forward pocket in the VFL last year). Our players that I can see that are primarily key forwards are Jess Anderson and Jasmine Grierson who both played their first year of senior football last year. Cranston has played up forward a lot but is a bit short. Lauren Pearce and Maddie Boyd are ruck/forwards. We do have options but they are not close to the Vescio/Hope/Brennan level. Our midfield and defence look ok. I expect that the bulldogs will clearly be the top Vic team. Their midfield with Blackburn, Kearney (clearly the next best mids (after Daisy) along with Bri Davey), Lambert, Hannah Scott and Brooke Lochland should dominate. Plus O'Connor and Spark who are top rucks. And Brennan up forward. Carlton have done well getting a top forward and mid as their marquee players, like the bulldogs. They lack top line midfielders behind Davey but Hosking, Exon and Pound are quality. They have a great forward line with Vescio, Jakobsson, Ayre and Arnell. Collingwood looks good all over the ground except for a weak midfield. Their backline should be particularly strong with Stevens, Chiocci and Penny Cula-Reid and obviously they have Hope up forward, along with Cameron. You only need to look at the league B&F and team of the year to see that we will struggle this year. SWISSE VFL WOMEN’S BEST AND FAIREST LEADERBOARD Daisy Pearce (Darebin) 33 --> Melb Brianna Davey (St Kilda) 29 --> Carl Ellie Blackburn (Melbourne Uni) 23 --> WB Katie Brennan (Darebin) 22 --> WB Steph Chiocci (Diamond Creek) 22 --> Coll Bree White (VU Western Spurs) 20 --> Coll Emma Kearney (Melbourne Uni) 20 --> WB Bianca Jakobsson (Cranbourne) 17 --> Carl Jaimee Lambert (Eastern Devils) 15 --> WB Sarah Perkins (Eastern Devils) 15 --> Adel B: Kim Ebb (WB) Nic Stevens (Coll) Nic Hildebrand (Bris) HB: Hannah Scott (WB) Hickey (Melb) Paxman (Melb) C: Pearce (Melb) Davey (Carl) Kearney (WB) HF: Vescio (Carl) Brennan (WB) Jakobsson (Carl) FF: Arnell (Carl) Hope (Coll) Perkins (Adel) FOll: Downie (Carl), Blackburn (WB), Lambert (WB) Inter: Gillespie-Jones (Carl), Ashmore (Bris), Boyd (Melb), Attard (Carl), Chiocci (coll), White (Coll) But on the plus side, hopefully the drafting next year will be in reverse order as it is for the AFL and we will be able to pick up Izzy Huntington. She did her ACL in the youth girls game before the last women's exhibition game so we won't see much of her this year but she will be a weapon and probably the best player in the league very soon. She was not eligible for to play VFL last year but played only 4 games in the Premier division (next one down from VFL) and was BOG in all of them and also took out the team's B&F playing only those 4 games! She's tall, fast, beautiful kick and strong mark and seems always have so much time, a bit like Pendlebury. And is a big Dees fan! So there's my preview...

Sounds good, schwaby.

The "Women's Team" should go well in 2017 with Watts, Hogan, Tom Mac and Wagner all playing for it! ?

They're our KPDs for the next 5 years. 14-15 teams will be envious.

That's why I didn't mention Bugg, Garlett or Kennedy.

They're not spiritual enough.

Klopp will win the league in the next 2-3 years if he's given the chance. One of the best managers in Europe.

This makes me want to vomit We are melbourne

Yeah, I know who owns Liverpool and FSG are the biggest tightarses in the premier league and their transfer policies have turned Liverpool into a feeder club. The Chinese have shown their willingness to spend in world football. If a deal went through, the Liverpool transfer policies would alter dramatically.

I'd go Jones Lewis Viney McDonald Gawn and Watts. i just Reckon Watts is ready and it would be good to have one of the leaders up forward

Surely you mean Gawn not Viney.

Bugg offered a lot more pace and he's never far from AFL level, he's pretty much the standard depth player. I assume the other 4 you named had contracts whilst Cross didn't. I think that's a pretty standard occruence for list manager. Matt Jones is another with pace who played some decent games breaking the lines last year. Viv played 4 games, Newton 2, Grimes 2. I don't see how the difference between them and Crossy would've changed the course of our season.

Tyson on the banner ahead of Watts is a no brainer.

Dom is a bit stiff I reckon but I guess you can't fit everyone

and the initials of red bull are.......................? what a provident coincidence...............lol

I agree; in fact I happen to believe that the signing and then transitioning of Daniel Cross can be seen as a symptom of how our club has turned itself around. Retiring when you could possibly have gone an extra year is better than not retiring and having it proven to you that couldn't. To not only convince him that he is making the right decision but provide a pathway into the next phase in his career is what a great club should be doing.

I went down on the off chance they would train. JKH and Jets with Crossy and and a few others having a work out. JKH doing leading and kicking work and Jets running. Crossy the standout, looks like he could play tomorrow.

Thanks goodness Watts is up there! He has earnt the recognition and am sure he will improve on last year. Like the rest of the team he seems to be really enjoying himself - great place from which to do his best work.

Hopefully Lewis delivering inside 50 will allow Watts to play deeper - they could be a lethal combo

It's only a matter of time... One man running clean & winning against the rest...call me cynical but I've heard this story before.

I know it's not as exciting but Gawn's marking when pushing back in defence was every bit as important as him going forward and stretching other defences. I don't want to lose that.

from http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2017-01-24/aflw-infographic-all-you-need-to-know

No, it is just you.

Re: Jake Spencer and Jack Trengove Neither have had a real pre season for years that would have prepared them adequately for match days. That they have shown improved ability following an unbroken pre season to date should be a positive for the club and all supporters. Spencil is a big bodied ruckman who has speed, grunt and endurance and can be competitive at the highest level. How many clubs can boast 2 such ruckmen? How do we know if the FD is not developing a strategy around creating an imbalance on the ground and using Max and Pencil at the same time? How many opposition clubs would be stretched? There is a simplistic notion that modern footy is all about speed and spread. But really it is as much about creating imbalances on the field. Imagine Spencil or Max resting in the forward line and taking away Jesse Hogan's gorilla opponent or alternating off the bench so that there is always a rested ruckman on the ground or dividing the ground in two (back line and centre, forward line) and sharing the load.. Players are here to play roles for the benefit of the team, not impress the critics with their speed and skills. I recall that both played in the great victory at Geelong in 2015. Jack was a champion before his injury and deserves a fair go to prove his value again. This constant obsession with foot speed is becoming tedious. Spread does not rely on speed, it relies on having the footy smarts to be able to read the play and anticipate when to go and where before the opposition. So long as he gets to the right positions and gets there without an opponent, he can walk as far as I care. As for defensive speed, if finds himself on a faster player (which can happen to any player except Hunt) then it is up to the on field or off field leadership to make the necessary adjustment. That is what good coaching is meant to do. There are enough coaches to go around. Give Jake and Jack a chance and don't dismiss their prospects too soon. I hope they surprise.

Already: Gawn, Hunt, Hogan My preferred final 7: Jones, Oliver, Petracca, Brayshaw, Viney, Tyson, Goodwin It's all about the future for me. I see no reason for Pearce being on the banner.

Great news for one of my favorite non MFC players. I always rated him as a far more important cog in Hawthorn's wheel than Frankenstein. I just hope they have not put too high expectations on a guy in remission from, and recovering from a life threatening illness. Stress and pressure can at times be detrimental.

I hate seeing other sides have epic battles and real rivalries and when they come off the ground, they have nothing left, I hate it because it simply doesn't apply to us. We have no sides that really hate us, like Collingwood/Essendon, Hawthorn/Essendon, Crows/Port etc. we no longer have any respect from other clubs and I hope that Simon Goodwin will reignite them and turn us in to a side to be feared and hated. I want to see our players come off the ground every week spent, because they've given their all. If he can do that then he will be known as a good coach.

I can give a perspective of someone who has lived in Adelaide his whole life if it adds to the conversation. Goody was always an amazing player but at the same time unassuming. He would never really tear a game to shreads nor did he have the talent of a Roo/McLeod. What he did do was mix what talent he had with genuine intelligence and hard work. He shouldn't be remembered as a superstar because he never was, but he was like a utility version of a Corey Enright. Maybe not as good as Enright but nearly as effective off a half back or a wing. Had this awkward style that just got the job done. What really encourages me is that he has always had a reputation as a great people person. His teammates loved him, his coaches loved him, his supporters loved him, his superiors when he was an assistant loved him. I believe with his people skills, knowledge of the game and ability to bring people together, he could very well be a more game savvy version of Daniher with a more talented list. I'm even more confident now with our coach than I was when Roos took over and he ended up doing exactly what he promised. I know people who are friends or acquantices with him and I'm very confident that we are in good hands.

I wonder if it also helps that he wasn't 'the superstar', which creates a whole different psychological situation. Goodwin was the 'excellent professional', and even when captain he wasn't the eternal symbol of the greatness of the club. Plus, he's not back at his playing club. It's all interesting and does comfortingly point to a meaningful difference in how things will happen for us.

I think if you look at guys like Buckley, hird and voss as great players who became senior coaches, Goodwin has far more experience as an assistant coach than all three combined and at multiple clubs. Been involved with several premiership senior coaches as well so I am very excited to see how we go this season.

absolute freak! Won an all Australian as a forward, a mid and As a half back.

Winning multiple B&F as a midfielder when Mark Ricciuto and Andrew McLeod are running around in the same team for your whole career, that's impressive! I hope Dom Tyson is taking notes.

Sure do. Went to high school with him. Pretty much gave up playing after watching him.