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Wow, the geniuses that came up with some of those nick names Thought Smithy, Wattsy, Kenty, Harmesy , Hunty and Whitey were just brilliant.

Only going off glimpses in the main drills more so than any detailed look at them or anything from Friday but probably the best thing I can say about all of these 3 is they haven't looked like first year players in the drills. Petracca burst passed a would be tackler the other day and Keilty slid across and tackled him. Really good agility for a big. His kicking has looked solid and so has his decision making. DJ has a neatness about his decision making and disposal that is similar to Billy Stretch. Kicks the ball low and hard and on both sides. Tim Smith has found the ball and moved it on smoothly. None of the 3 have really jumped out with blistering pace or racking up the ball which are the 2 things that stand out in the match simulation training and the contested aspect of drills has mainly been in tight which doesn't favour a key defender or two forwards. For reference with Clarry this time last year all I could see was he had a bit of agility, his decision making looked decent and his skills were good enough to get the ball where it needed to go. It wasn't until the first intraclub that there was really any way of judging what he might do at AFL level.

Quiet confidence be buggered, this is as exciting list as the Doggies if not better for depth, I am predicting a top four finish, damn the torpedo's, damn the nervous predictions.I'm putting good doh on the DEES to utterly surprise and rattle the AFL fraternity and Blitzkrieg the finals! GO DEES!!

Jetta is one of the best small defenders in the competition and has been for three years now. He's not going anywhere near Casey.

The thing many here seem to overlook with Trengove is that he is a natural footballer, a clever footballer. He uses his body well, he knows when and where to run, he reads the play well. He was pick 2 for a reason and he justified that selection early in his career, i.e. prior to being crippled with injury and his development being cruelled somewhat by Neeld. Scully was AA last year and I preferred Trengove to Scully as a player early in their respective careers. It's self evident that Trengove will need to regain AFL level mobility etc to make it, but he is a disciplined, aerobic beast and, above all, he is a natural footballer. He is able to float into the forward 50 and kick goals. He is a very strong mark. If he gets his body back to where it WAS previously, he'll surprise a few here. Fingers crossed - he could be the 'feel good' story of 2017. Finals for the Demons and Trengove firmly entrenched in the 22 and contributing significantly each week would be simply fantastic. C'mon Jack!

Quick observations on Johnstone from very limited knowledge: Aggressive and in your face Strong for his size/build and tackles to hurt Will be very good defensively inside 50 Can kick long for a small, but not a deadeye d*ck around goals. Will have his share of gettable misses Determined, but doesn't have any magical traits. Good at most things without a standout skill Speed good without being any wow factor The above are opinions based on limited knowledge. I like the selection and think he has the basic attributes to make a go of an AFL career.

With a name like Angus..."Steaks"

Please leave politics off the footy board - thread pruned accordingly.

We're still deciding.

A bit late to the party, but speaking from my own limited experience, I think there is some value in these camps. Around 2000 I went through one based in Lorne as an 18-year-old, run by a mob that had apparently put multiple AFL clubs through their paces a few times. I often think back to the self-belief it gave me at a young age, in terms of what I was physically & mentally capable of. There was also a focus on problem solving when fatigued & at times I stood up, giving others belief in my ability at a time when I was struggling to find my place and emerge in a core group of men much older and more mature than me. Very suddenly, blokes who had never really given me the time of day, were saying hello & knew my name. All footy clubs have their cliques & it gave me a profile. I had a greater understanding of their capabilities and temperaments. Bonding not so much, but maybe it enabled bonding at a later stage. Most of all, I still go to Lorne & marvel at my ability to run up and down those steep hills repeatedly over the course of a few days, carrying logs & various other objects on my back. I had never considered myself capable of such feats & the exercise had me pushing well beyond where I thought my limits lay. Something I definitely would have drawn on had I taken my footy seriously & made a "career" of it. As others have touched on, those operating the camps have the biggest influence on the outcomes, second only to the participants themselves. Approaching it with a less than ideal mindset will produce a sub-optimal result. And the facilitators must obviously be competent at the service they are attempting to provide, rather than just blokes with SAS experience on their CV who think they can make an easy buck by bullying civilians for a few days. Personally, I'd expect someone like McCartney or Goodwin to have participated in multiple camps of this ilk and have a great understanding of the value and benefit to gained from them, with the right facilitators. Criticisms based on injuries are narrow-minded in my opinion, and they can just as easily happen at Gosch's.

The problem is you (and me) see him for 2 hours on match day where he does some nice things and on other occasions he's looked slow and undersized (physicality) and gets exposed. The coaching group see him train 3 times a week and get to monitor his progression. They get to know the individual. His character, leadership, temperament, intelligence, willingness to learn, work ethic, etc. They see a player with flaws, but one who is continually improving and one they believe is on the way to becoming a backline stalwart for the next 10 years. Given their recent track record I'd be a nong to doubt them.

a thread prerequisite, ethan

Just caught up on this thread, what the heck has happened to it?! Have the Germans and Japanese taken over the banana industry?

I'm pretty sure his story was that his son was Viv's best mate or something like that. He definitely had a strong Viv bias (funny moment when @Wisebloodstarted referring to him as if he was Viv). He was a good poster though, it would be a shame if he goes away now that Michie is gone.

Keep your eye on Shelley Scott in our team. Word I have is she's probably one of the toughest women footballers going around and will definitely hurt the opposition at each and every opportunity.

Took it to be 'outlander' ...English. ( wherefore lil ol me heralds from ) Lest im not a Frankfurter lol

Didn't know you identified as a sausage, BB

I was surprised at his small frame when I went to training last month however, I was more surprised with his ability. Did not look out of place at all and had probably only trained with the club for a few weeks at that stage. I wouldn't say Aaron Davey type. Probably similar size to a first year Billy Stretch when he first rocked up. Nowhere near the pace of Flash but he was very agile, moves well. Every single kid on our list is bulking up nicely, I`ve no doubt he will follow suit.

you should see the arguments on history fora regarding ethnic connections/ownership to alexander the great. at least 6 balkanic countries claim a slice of the pie. the arguments make demonland look like a haven of calm and reason. lol

From Maccas report McKenna is putting his hand up for early selection. Be interesting to see him in the pre-season matches

Not sure that I see the link between British rah-rah and the assassination of Archiduke Ferdinand (heir to which throne again? ) but you have a good point about military victory but economic loss in both wars. IMHO I think it was more the insanity of the German Kaiser which ensured that a relatively minor dispute in the Balkans escalated into a pan-European Gotterdamerung that killed millions, but that was only possible because of the Great Powers of the time (Britain, Russia, Germany, France etc) wanting to belt the snot out of each other at any given opportunity. Makes Demonland look positively sane ...

It would be great if he had another little bro who could kick some goals for us ?

Add a Y to their last or first names and you have a great start.

That's what amateur football is all about, isn't it?

a very good question, picket i have my best people working on an answer but it might take some time

Because players are regularly concussed by house bricks at Gosch's. Happens all the time...

Main thing is.... There is still a place for people to be weird."

I was referring more to the pre-WW1 era. Britten especially post dates, here. You could get away with Elgar, Vaughan Williams just. To counter, I could claim Arnold Schonberg as well. He, ironically, was going to 'ensure the dominance of 'German' music for the next 100 years'.

Thanks ww, and all others, for all your reports and especially today's lot. All sounds exciting stuff. I await the season with quiet confidence.

Well, that should teach them not to train the house down ...

Next open training session Monday at 11.00 at Gosh's Paddock. I rang the club yesterday and had this confirmed! I'll try to get there and present my enlightening thoughts for all you lucky Demonlanders!!

I've been impressed by Johnstone. I watched him in the rehab group before Christmas and he was having shots at goal and had no trouble from 50 metres. He's not looked out of place in any of the drills I've seen but neither has he ever "caught my eye". I don't really think we'll know where he fits until we see him in match situations. I've been a track watcher for some time now and I think judging players by there track work is fraught with danger. James Strauss and Sam Blease did some of the best work I've seen but only behind Jamie Bennell. Enough said. But unlike the past we have a recruiter who really hasn't put a foot wrong since his arrival. Jason Taylor and his team have done what few before have and that's nail the early picks. But more he's picked up some good players late. Oscar (who I rate more highly than most), Jayden Hunt, AVB and the like show he's able to spot talent. There isn't a player on the list now that I think doesn't deserve his spot. That's a long way of saying I like the boy and hold hopes but it's really too early to judge. Does that help?!

Perhaps I can assist. Tell me about your earliest memory?

Wrecker 45, I am responding to your statement bolded above. America de Calli had already made the point below: "How can you believe he is the scapegoat when just about everyone else in positions of responsibility at Essendon were sacked or resigned swiftly? It took untill the bitter end and millions of dollars in his pocket to get Hird out of the club". However Wrecker45, you responded to his post as though you didn't read it, so I am again rebutting your statement that: "Hird could have handled it better but I truly think he his a pawn that the AFL needed to hang everything on. Particularly, after he wouldn't cop the slap on the wrist they were offering". You are again ignoring all the other casualties at the club which were mentioned by AdC, you are ignoring the fact that Essendon was fined $2 mill, you are ignoring that it lost draft picks, you are ignoring that the players were suspended for 12 months, (albeit by a WADA tribunal) and retired players had to step aside from coaching and other positions. You are ignoring the fact that the club is shelling out millions in compensation to the players. You are ignoring that Watson has lost his Brownlow. Hird himself resigned as coach before the player suspensions because the players were no longer performing for him. This was not a penalty imposed by the AFL. He kept going to independent courts and losing, so how can he be a pawn of the AFL. After all this, how then is he the scapegoat that the AFL needed to hang everything on? You yourself say"he wouldn't cop the slap on the wrist they were offering". So he was offered a slap on the wrist but 'he is a scapegoat"? (I know you say it happened because he wouldn't accept the slap, but that is still contradictory). Hird is just one of the many and continuing casualties of this program. By definition if there are so many other casualties, Hird cannot be a scapegoat As it happens, my view is also that he didn't intend to break the rules, but that is not a defense when the rules were broken under his watch and as a result of a program he instituted. He had responsibilities and he amongst others had to be accountable, - the Cronulla coach copped a suspension, what penalty did Hird get from the AFL which was worse?

You're thinking of the Junction Oval. Concussed during a meeting, by a falling possum, maybe?

I see Hibberd as a versatile swing man in defense... He can get away with playing as one if the three key talls or a true flanker/disperser... Wagner is in the same mould, a little lighter perhaps, but developing similar skill set and the same courage running back. Filipovic reminds me of a young Martin... a very tall midfielder with a better kick.

Our coach is also one fit man. He is running the tan most mornings - this morning he was doing repeat sprints up the Anderson Street hill. He looks fit enough to still be playing!

I don't think injecting players with saline or vitamins makes them overnight muscle bound running robots nor causes the plague of soft tissue injuries many later suffered.

I've mainly seen him in rehab and light skills work, keen to see more. He's got a good frame for a young ruck, runs pretty well and his handballing and kicking is better than expected. What have you seen from him?

Tim Smith continues to impress. He is very good with his shots at goal, had developed AFL standard fitness, seems to make good decisions related to game plan and has eccellent hands. I see him as a backup to Hogan and Kent/Watts

Hulett has been given the all clear. Melbourne Demons forward Liam Hulett escapes serious ankle injury

Further thoughts... Wagner will feature in the 22 regularly, even with the inclusion of Hibberd and Melksham. Harmes looks set to go to the next level. Smokey 1 - Johnston. Smokey 2 - Filipovic

There weren't necessarily designated leaders for the groups... just some obvious senior, excellent trainers who went about communicating the best way to implement Goodwin's focus. Dion Johnstone will impress with his strong overhead work and his goal sense

Best training report I've seen all year!

Just back from training. Horrible to see Liam go down. I couldn't tell whether it was ankle or knee but he went down and stayed down for sometime before being examined and carted back to AAMI. The session was physically very demanding and different drills. WW has done a great job describing who was doing what. Hibberd and JKH in the main group and looking sharp. The rehab group don't look far away and were doing a range of contact drills. Standouts for me today were Max Gawn who just looks so fit, Oliver who was having no trouble with some of the running, AVB and Harmes who did well. Oh, and Hunt. Boy did he look good using his pace and skills. Hogan was also very good today along with the regulars like Lewis, Vince and Jones. Petracca and Brayshaw were also in everything and Petracca's field kicking was excellent. Any questions let me know.

That poor old bloke was hammered. When they interviewed you'd swear he'd just finished off a carton of froffies. Question: why would you carry a ridgey didge morphine pen on a simulated training?

This arguing about whether it was a good experience or not when most of you don't know what you're talking about is getting to me worked up. How can you argue for the agaisnt when the players and the coaches have said they thought it was 1) the hardest thing any of them had ever done in their football careers (Including Lewis who was done some crazy stuff over the years) but 2) most believe was extremely beneficial to their personal development therefore the team development. I have a direct source to the mindset of the playing group, and I can tell you for absolute certainty this camp was indeed a good experience for the club.

Another 3 years takes the sponsorship to a continuous 9 years. Another tick for off-field stability and financial stability! Now we just need the back of jumper sponsor!

Love this from Macca: McCartney on pre-season: Part One A couple of delicious quotes: "............... the group is so willing to learn and receptive to getting better, it's brilliant to come to work every day with them" and "................almost every player has taken another step forward with their learning and development. We won't lack for talent, we won't lack for preparation and we are really confident that we won't lack for intensity. The Club has entered a really exciting phase."

I watched that game as well and thought Trengove was noticeably smoother and quicker off the mark. Obviously not express, but you didn't think there was any liability, which is very different to his injury years. When I think of Bartel, and as you know Trengove has often been compared to him, I don't see any overly special traits other than his marking. I wouldn't say Bartel was a "ball magnet", although he averaged 26-28 disposals in his best years, more-so he was a very smart and brave footballer who just did everything very well. Other than speed Bartel had no weakness. I see Trengove in a similar light, although much of his development has been robbed by injury. It will be interesting to see how he goes this year. If his movement is markedly better and he plays 8-10 games it wouldn't surprise me if they gave him another year and from there who knows. Or he may do enough to gain interest from other clubs. You'd just love to see him given a level playing field. A skilful and brave player who just does everything really well get games in the AFL. But if his movement is a liability at this level clearly he's finished.