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I have one wish. Can we have pre-season training reports without the sniping. If you can't get there to post your own report, don't criticise those that do. If you don't like the report ignore it and move on. We have lots to look forward to so let's be positive. This should not be wishful thinking.

It all starts on Monday for a limited number of players when the first wave of players will return at 9.30am at Gosch’s Paddock. TRAINING TIMES I'm sure most of you are looking forward to reading and discussing reports from training but please note the following:- Posters are asked to be polite on training threads. Personal abuse of players or other posters will not be tolerated.

WJ, thanks for the info, and the last sentence, will be there with camera, will try and be a bit more 'technical' with the report.

When success comes I will not be humble about it, I shall turn into an arrogant and smarmy beast. I've waited too long for this opportunity, I shall bathe in the salty tears of our victims and display a level of elitism rarely seen.

Could not agree more. For those of us who live interstate, training reports are gold. I feel indebted to anyone who turns up to a training session and bothers to report back on what they observed.

Isaac Heeney to request a trade to the Dees during the 2017 trade period.

Can't wait to see Goody 100 % in charge and putting his stamp on the list. Looking forward the upside in a few that I think will come from this alone

There's one thing worse than pre-season cliches and that's people making jokes about pre-season cliches.

No doubt they will be "training the house down"

He relies on space. The modern game doesn't allow space - see Dogs GF performance for an example. Modern game requires contested ball. Garlett is great in an open game and these will occur during the season and he will look great. In finals it rarely happens. He's far from a lock IMO.

and no mentioning the following forbidden cursed words: will be elite

I share your wish Ernest. It runs a close second to my #1 wish for this pre-season, which is for Clarry and Trac to convincingly beat T.Mac in the 3km time trial.

I feel sorry for GWS who have just about reached their peak and will have to face the might of the MFC, I guess they will have to be happy to be runners up.

I think perhaps the 'opt-out' Dedicated Demons automatic sign-up, taking effect in the last week or so and seemingly very efficient this year, might have had a snowballing (unfortunate stereotypicalling reference) effect for the early figures - the providers of the previous year's member-growth being re-signed automatically without fully realising it. I hope I'm wrong, and the early 3000-above-trend in fact continues to 45000+ by mid 2017!

That's the longest nickname I've ever heard. But I like it.

And may pre season be injury free please!

How on earth could you get a thread like this back on track? That's not a riddle BTW.

I view Dunn a bit differently to Gartlett. My read on Dunn is ( rightly or wrongly) the FD didn't think he had the ability to be offensive and "create". Gartlett has everything required to play the modern game - his problem last year was lapses in form. Forward pocket is one of those positions where you can just get lost. The difference between Gartlett's first and second year is in his first year things went for him and when it didn't he made things happen. He didn't make things happen last season - I dont believe he worked hard enough.

Smith just did some things in a couple of games that made you think wow, this guy has pace to burn, good disposal and courage. He looked like Howe, but with speed and better contested ball-winning ability. Hearing how highly rated he is at the club rounds out the picture. It means jack if an amateur like me likes a player, but you get excited if the club is excited. I know nothing of Maynard.

I wonder if all the neutral supporters will get on the Demon bandwagon when we eventually make a grand final, like they did with the Dogs? I found the neutral support of the Dogs, and particularly the media love of the Dogs way over the top.

You're relentlessly pushing this idea of our ties with the MCC and MCG as no more than simply shelter. What a load of rubbish. Both are intrinsic to who we are as a football club. They are our history which may or may not be relevant to you (I don't know) but, for mine, any ultimate success would be lessened if we disregarded our identity. They are also not the reason we have failed in recent times. That's an issue of poor administration more broadly. Happy to discuss training base options but your arguments on this are also disjointed.

that's easy. a stepladder.

and they are all future 200 gamers, brownlow medallists and norm smith medallists

Not sure Andrew Demetriou circa 2005 would agree with you. Teams super aggressively push up from defence now - in fact, attack seems to stem from defence more than ever before, and that's why turnovers are so deadly now. There's space everywhere on the quick counter. That said, I kind of agree with your post. Garlett needs to recapture his 2015 form, a season in which his defensive pressure in the forward 50 quite often resulted in scoring opportunities for us. He's is a nightmare for opposition defenders when he's working hard without the ball.

The opportunity, but not the money was there when the Olympic Swimming Pool was available, if it was there now we would snap it up. I can't understand why we didn't take up more space in the AAMI stadium and fully relocate there. We have some facilities at the G and some at AAMI, but nothing that will draw the whole thing together. Docklands was talked about and would be perfect if we had training, administration and gym facilities all in one but it's also a bugger to get to and to find parking etc. We need to do something and cosying up to the MCC isn't it.

Need to stop talking about reasons why good stuff won't happen. Optimism breeds optimism. A precursor to success breeding success.

The man or His shirt?

I had a chat to him at an after game function and you could not have found a more engaging bloke. Again, I agree, he has done a lot for this club and that should not go unnoticed

In my opinion.. Red are players who i believe if fit, will play round 1 black are the players i think are fighting for their spot I think Garlett and Clarry are very likely to play also but not 100% certain for either, all depends on form and team balance Jetta T McDonald Frost Hibberd O McDonald Hunt Vince Tyson Lewis Petracca Hogan Kent Garlett Weideman Watts Gawn N.Jones Viney Salem Brayshaw Oliver Melksham

I prefer Edward Woodward. (It may not have stood the test of time, but 'Callan' may well be the best spy drama ever made).

No AA for Jack Watts? You had him runner up before McDonald and Gawn.

Lewis will play mostly off half back in a role similar to Matthew Boyd at the Dogs, because having him and Tyson and Oliver leaves us too slow in the midfield. Hibberd will play more through the midfield than in defence to provide us some drive. Melksham will be better than expected. Salem will have a good preseason and finish top 10 in the B&F.

Dom Tyson to have a consistent year and be one of our most important midfielders. Hogan to put this year behind him and dominate throughout the whole season. Frost to be just as important than Tmac Garlett never fading from games and be a damaging forward pocket Dees to make finals-just Beat teams we should be beating

Pederson will play about half the games and will be the back up ruck for Max, which is a far better option than playing Jack there, although I think plying Jack in the ruck has hardened him up quite a bit. The body contact is something he hasn't seemed to be comfortable with before and this has helped in my opinion.

1) Casey wins the flag - easily. Trengove/Vince tie for B&F. Maynard wins Norm Goss Medal. 2) Goodwin admits he was brains behind diamond defence and the Kent/Petracca centre bounce roll, which all sides now try and copy. After his side masters zone defence, Goodwin tries an automatic switch to man-to-man defence at 25minute mark of every term. Takes David King all year to figure it out. 3) All-in brawl v Saints in Rd 1 with Lewis and Oliver suspended for two weeks. 4) Making finals for first time since 2006. Other 7 finalists are - GWS, Adel, Syd, Geel, WB, Rich (yes, Richmond) and St Kilda. 5) Five newcomers in 2017 - Hibberd, Melksham, Smith, McKenna and yet to be taken back up ruck/forward - Zac Clarke if delisted, Keilty if no Clarke. 6) Big surprise - Harmes plays every game, except for suspension. 7) Lumumba retires in April after two games in VFL. 8) Hoges AA CHF, Jones AA hbf, Gawn AA ruck. 9) Joel Smith takes mark of year of the year on a Lion (not Garry). 10) Roughy asks to join Dees in off-season.

A note of negativity to my previous post .. Im seeing salary cap issues post 2019 ..keeping our multiple premiership players together !!☹️

Seeing the Dogs won the GF from position 7 , and if we can match the game plan that suits our pretty talented team, and with another pre season under their impressive belts , I see know reason we can't go all the way ! I am dispensing with my negative mood I've had for umpteen years and embracing positivity for the foreseeable future MFC wise !

I'm expecting a big jump in output from Vanders, Gus, Harmes and Kent, they were all a bit down last season due to injury and inexperience. Harmes makes some mistakes but he will eliminate these and be a consistently good player, I love the way he takes the game on. Hunt will go to another level as will Hoges, Trac Clarrie and Billy, they will feature in the B&F next year. Jordan and Bernie will be feared and may receive a suspension or two, Bern was lucky a few times last season. Salem will show why we got him in the first place and will silence the doubters, this kid has a heap of ability and has the skills to be an elite player in the competition. Max and Nathan will continue to play to their high standard. It wouldn't surprise me if we play Weed on a flank or in a lesser role until he gets the strength to take on a key position. What can you say about Jack, he just seems to be getting better. Finals next year and we can beat anyone on the way through.

Tell you what, you name the team/players that will play every game from the first match to the last and I'll tell you who he will replace and what position he will play. Sounds like you don't think we will have any injuries, form slumps or miss matches during the season and will play the same 22 every week for the whole of the year.

Word on the street is Trenners has been working with a sprint coach and the plan is for that to continue through a large chunk of the pre season, giving himself every chance.

My smokey is for James Harmes to become an elite bullocking type midfielder, regularly impacting games with powerful bursts out of packs and into the forward line. I'll be a bit half pregnant on my next prediction: Wondering if we will have a backline star studded with AA backman by the end of the year? Tom McDonald has that kind of talent and potential in him if he can stay uninjured and maintain his form throughout the whole year, with the other potential candidates being Jetta, Hunt, Hibberd and maybe even Oscar. If we start stringing the wins together, it's amazing how players in successful sides get all the accolades. Regardless, if he is good enough to take the step all the way to AA nomination, I have high hopes for Oscar next season as my recollection was that it was at about this age that Tom really started to fill out and had the physical strength and confidence/experience to start really imposing himself on opposition players and became a reliable, solid defender.

Brayshaw is a very, very classy footballer with an excellent footy brain. I predict that with a good preseason he will be top 5 in 2017 Bluey.

good onya Binman. totally with ya. he struggles with no part of the game.

Very well said

Remind me, what did the doggies do???? Hmmm, Dees to beat Dogs by 5 points in a nail-biter. Hogan to kick his eighth after the siren. Jack Viney - Norm Smith medallist. Max Gawn - AA plus Brownlow. Severe beer shortage for several days. Massive hangovers, lost jobs, population boom. The Reverend cries for a week and gets entire upper body tattooed with a Melbourne jumper. Go Dees!

I also seem to recall one Vs West Coast 2015, where it was his courage charging back against the play when he copped another serious head knock. I understand fully that footy is a contact sport and accidental high contacts are somewhat inevitable, however some players also contribute to their own demise by pushing the boundaries too far - think Jonathan Brown in his last few seasons.

I fully expect Trengrove to be a different player next season. We all hear about how much difference a full preseason can make (i.e. Max Gawn). Trengrove had less than not having a preseason in the respect that he had to totally rebuild the strength back in a twig of what may pass for a leg. It was somewhat miraculous that he could even run, let alone be half competitive at VFL level. Without really knowing the guy, I get the impression that Trenners is an absolute professional in his dedication to training and should give himself every chance. If he can have the sort of Max Gawn impact after a full preseason, I'll be happy with that.

Oliver to push for All - Australian

I was just confused. To me it was Paul Johnson all over again - I didn't think there was a chance in heck he would get a game. He got 3 and did okay, and got the opportunity to play in 2 AFL finals, albeit losing ones, and had 7 years in the AFL system. I reckon I'd be looking back and counting myself very lucky to have gotten that far. Most don't. Good on him and good luck.

The curse will end when the 13th is raised towards the Northern side of the MCG.