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If there was a big positive out of yesterday in a pretty dull full of sloppy errors its Billy Stretch. Its ridiculous how clean, calm and poise he is under extreme pressure while other more experienced players crumble under the pressure.His gut running and spread is a highlight and shows the incredible workrate that he has. We rave about Petracca Oliver and Brayshaw but Stretch should be talked amongst those guys as he is very underrated and goes about his business in a quite way. Keep up the good work Billy!

Tom McDonald had ONE mis-kick that went to 50:50. Supporters are watching and willing him to turn it over. He started some great chains yesterday, the pity was our decision making and execution further up the ground were off. Oscar McDonald took some nice contested marks early. He's got some way to go but he's developing. Tom Lynch is a tremendous player.

You people are having a laugh. He played a great game on one of the best forwards in the comp. Give it a rest McDonald haters. We need to get him signed, and if he doesn't, it is a disaster for our list going forward... unless you think Jetta should be our CHB next year!

Alright lets have a slightly more positive look at these points shall we. 1. Joy? no I dont think thats the word I or anyone else to describe that win. Relief, maybe but surely you can see the importance of that? Good teams find a way to win no matter how bad they have played, Hawthorn have made an art form of that this year. (yes they havn't been that bad but you get my point) 2. I loved the players response yesterday that know they played [censored] and we relieved to have the points time to move onto next week, exactly what we wanted to see, would you rather see them celebrating like the won the flag after a performance like that? They were clearly as dissapointed with their effort as you are 3. Bernie yeah he played [censored] and has most of the back half of the year. Your contract talk is horse [censored] though, if don't sign players and they wont stay! of the 3 you mentioned im not sure why Kent is getting hate he was alright yesterday and was good last week too he hasnt set the world on fire but he has been far more consistant as the years gone on. 4. Wagner has been poor since he got injured and I agree should probably be at casey but he has shown enough to be part of the future. Jones is in the side because he and Stretch are the only 2 players who can play as a running wingman. There is nobody who runs and spreads better than Jones. Pray we target a more skilfull player this offseason to take his spot but for now he is it (personaly i would rookie him, handy backup). Kent and Harmes were both pretty good yesterday yeah they made mistakes but they are hard, they put pressure on and are best 22 almost every week. Harmes might lose his spot on a back flank once salem gets his body right but for now he is playing it well. I'm as much of a Dawes hater as anyone else but he was more than servicable yesterday played his role, competed, if he brings that every week he will be a good holdover while others develops (i doubt he can do that consistantly though) 5.This win is infinitely more valuable than a 10 goal win. What do you learn from a 10 goal win? Usually just that the other team played [censored]. They go home yesterday knowing they played terribly... but could win anyway! When is the last time a melbourne side was able to find a way to win when nothing was going right? No, playing like that wont work often, but winning those types of games is the difference between finals and no finals. Nobody plays to their peak 22 weeks of the year, have to learn how to win without it. No, we shouldnt be 'happy' with how they played but no point being so negative, a wins a win and I would much rather that than be sitting here with a loss.

Just some food for thought. In 2004, Hawthorn won 4 games and finished 15th with a percentage of 70.23. In 2005, Hawthorn won 5 games and finished 14th with a percentage of 92.01. In 2006, Hawthorn won 9 games and finished 11th with a percentage of 85.70. In 2007, Hawthorn won 13 games and finished 5th with a percentage of 113.05. In 2008, Hawthorn won 17 games and finished 2nd with a percentage of 131.85. They went on to pinch the flag and missed the finals altogether the following year. My point? We're tracking at a relatively good pace. Obviously, the reason it's so frustrating for our supporters is that we've rebuilt 2 or 3 times since we last made it to the finals. I've said all season that we'll win 10-12 games. Obviously, we won't get 12, but I still think we'll get 10. Even if we don't, we'll get 8+ now, which is comparable with their 2006 season. But it looks like we'll have a stronger percentage than they had that year. Natural improvement will come again next year as our young team gains more experience. Coupled with 1-2 important players that we acquire in FA/trading, hopefully they'll make us even better again. So 11-13 wins next year should be the target and is likely if we continue on our current trajectory. That's a terrific foundation for Goody to build on in his second season, where we should be aiming for the top 4. Of course, injuries can play a part (see the Bulldogs this year, who look like missing out on the top 4 now) and personnel changes, but Hawthorn's path shows some patience is required and that in fact, although it may be frustrating given what we've already been through, we are a real chance for some success starting 2017.

Delisted free agent, give them nothing

From what I've seen, and others can correct me or add more to it, he is a very good running defender who is a beautiful kick of the footy and more than holds his own in a one on one situation. At 27 he is hitting his prime and he will be an excellent addition to our half back line, potentially releasing the likes of Hunt and Salem to play more through the wings and midfield.

Stretch has fantastic pace. Coming along very nicely and ahead of schedule.

Footy is funny, if Tom Lynch kicks the winning goal I guarantee they wouldn't have said all those nice things about our list.

Thought he gave a really good interview - definitely more open than usual. Topics covered where: Gold coast game - Vince admitted it was his worst game for the club. Said it was a frustrating sort of game but not as bad as some commentators thought. Watts - Watts and Nathan Jones are the two players he's proud of the most. Basically said the same thing as yesterday around the plaudits he's receiving now. Watts' goal kicking - Says Watts is brilliant technically and has a lot of confidence when he has the ball in his hand. Jesse Hogan's goal kicking - Says after he improves and gets better with time, people will forget about his funny run up and say it's just his style. Roos' Legacy - says he's done exactly what he was brought in to do. Rebuild the football department and get them ready for finals. PJ said the FD was below AFL standard. Finals - Says the team is close but wouldn't commit to an approximate year as to when we will play. 2014 - Substantiated the claim that he looked at the players between the eyes after round 2 loss to WCE and just said that Melbourne supporters just want effort and the scoreboard will tick over. i think they were the main points. Talked the team up a fair bit including all the young talent.

Bet that's the first time that sentence has ever been written

He also said that T Mac will stay

Very timely! The hue and cry is that it is all WADA's fault!! No not from EFC or its sycophants and not from the AFL nor AFLPA. Its is from the mouth of none other than the IOC President: " Thomas Bach snapped at suggestions the committee's response to the crisis had been a huge failure, claiming it was "very obvious" where responsibility lay as a result of the "timing" of the WADA-commissioned report, which found Russia guilty of state-sponsored doping and a cover-up on a staggering scale". http://www.theage.com.au/sport/olympics/rio-2016/russian-doping-scandal-threatens-to-turn-rio-olympics-launch-to-chaos-20160731-gqhzbw.html Oh! Bach said "...the IOC's decision not to ban the whole Russian team hasn't damaged the credibility of the Games and he denies his longstanding close personal ties with Russian officials influenced the outcome." And we were worried that the AFL Tribunal was biased towards the players - small fry stuff in comparison to the IOC! Absolutely shameful for him to deflect the IOC's incompetence and gutlessness onto WADA and he has totally trashed its credibility. Shoot the Messenger! Works every time. Bach has rung the death knell on clean sport, forever more.

Both Oscar and Frost have really come on the last 3 weeks.

Agreed good post. As hard as it is, supporters really need to forget about 2007-2013 and realise this rebuild or whenever you want to call it should only be measured since 2014. The 2007-2013 rebuild failed.

It was a massively frustrating game. But coming up to 10,000 metres we killed them on the outside which is a completely different story from the Essendon debacle. Our decision making and skill execution forward of the centre was absolutely shocking, if this had been on then we would have won easily. I think the other problem we had yesterday was our total inability to convert Max's dominance on the inside. I think we have a structural problem there, the opposition acknowledges we're going to get first hands on it and tackles immediately, it's what happens after this first possession that's crucial. Either another stoppage, rinse and repeat, or the ball comes out and we don't have an advantage. I've seen us running a 7th player off the back of the square at the centre bounces, presumably to provide an outlet, but I've only ever seen that player actually get involved in the play once. Some other plan is required maybe a different mix at the bounce instead of 3 insiders.

Yep ... there's an old adage in footy that rings true ... "You called for it, you get it" A player making position is effectively calling for the ball and that recipient player has to take into account that the disposal coming in his direction may not be perfect. So often we see a recipient player give up on the play and not make a contest and that's half the problem. The pleasing part of that 50/50 yesterday was that Frost (?) didn't give up on the play. Frost played a really good game regardless. Also, players calling for the ball should be on the move and preferably moving at pace ... the player disposing of the ball then has an easier target. It's basic footy '101' Tom is obviously under instruction to set up the play from the backline and the coaches would be taking into account that he (and others) are going to make the odd error in that process. The team is a work in progress and so are many of our players. We could go back to kicking it down the line looking for a stoppage (2012/13) ... we'd then be screaming about how ineffective our transition out of defence would be. It's a risk/reward situation and I'm quite happy to go with it.

We will in 5 weeks... but a ruck, not a key back

Stretch has been excellent this year. Very under rated.

He hurt his calf/shin a few weeks back, and hasn't been the same since. I don't think it's fair that we go and claim that he is struggling because overnight he's become an egomaniac alcoholic. FFS he is having a bad patch, lets not go crazy here. Needs to get back to form or take a holiday to Casey.

Seriously, some of you are obviously completely biased or you just name the same names every week without watching the game.

At the centre bounces today we had no one within 40 metres of the goal in our forward line, if we win the centre clearance where are our forwards meant to lead to? Around the ball we still have too many players go in and get it, leaving no one on the outside to receive the ball. When we have the ball on a half back flank all of our players crowd the area down the line on the boundary, we don't use the width of the ground to create space to lead into. I really struggle to see what our coaches are teaching our players if after two and half years of Paul Roos we have a worse structure than the Auskick kids at halftime. This inability to maintain a strong attacking structure is one of the key reasons we tend to overuse the ball, kick sideways and backwards, continually kick under pressure and always look so indecisive with ball in hand. There needs to be a full overhaul of this part of our game if we are to improve at all, Simon Goodwin has an almighty job on his hands. Watch Hawthorn next week effortlessly move the ball around, they will always have targets forward of the ball to kick to who in turn will have space to lead to into as they use the full width of the big MCG. They won't overcrowd the ball at stoppages and will always have a player on the outside for the quick release who can run and kick.

I want him for nothing. Essendon has dug their own grave and they can GGF.

Not surprising, really. I think we always had him in the bag, the challenge now is how we get him without Essendrug demanding three first round picks and Max Gawn as part of the trade.

I hate how people write "to" as the number "2"... as 4 Matt Jones, I think he's played well enough lately to be 4given 4 the odd glitch.

But we didn't. There is a reason we are below St Kilda and Port, and thats because, this year, they are better than us. Hence the ladder position. If you beat the teams below you and not those above you, you are exactly where you deserve to be.

He is our cleanest player, who looks like he has the hunger to get the best out of himself. He and Hunt will own the wings at the MCG for the next 10 years...

I think the fact that he is under less pressure is actually a feature of his game - he is able to get in to space when others can't. Really pleased with his progress this year.

Pedo > Dawes

I'd love if there was an "effective" disposal statistic somehow. For example, a handpass to a teammate two metres away may add to the "efficiency" statistic but when the player who receives the ball is tackled by an opponent right next to them before they have a chance to dispose of the ball it is not effective.

FYI Tom Lynch is the best player in the AFL at the moment.

Salem and Melksham will release Hunt to the wing. I. Cannot. Wait

I bloody love him. Opposition teams have learnt to pay him close attention now. Doesn't get as many free runs at the footy anymore, but gees he is so good. My favourite thing about 2016!

Agreed. His mistakes are due to being a sub 30 game player and having less time to execute under pressure. Once he's reached 50-60 games he's going to be a sensational young player.

What you're saying might be true but this sounds like something that would come out of middle management at an insurance company. Gives me cold sweats. He's a footy player, a key forward. His job is to run, bullock, hustle, mark, kick and create goals. I don't think there's any confusion or engagement issues, he's just had a slump the last couple of weeks. He's still working his backside off though and the delivery isn't helping. He needs to take advantage of his opportunities though I agree.

Billy is yet another remarkable example of the work of the development staff now at the club. Like Wagner, Hunt and Oscar, they are not yet physically at the level required by AFL, but they are able to play as required. In previous years he would have been thrown into the seniors with hope for the best. Lots of upside still with Billy, and if he gets anywhere near the level of his old man then we will have another beauty!

We are trying to move the ball quickly, wth the intent of getting our forwards one out. Unfortunately we overdo it, the movement is almost manic and beyond our current skill level. Either we need to slow down just a little and make better decisions, or get better at the skills to keep moving it faster. The speed is why the error level rises and why kicks and handballs miss their target.. I think this will come over the next year or two. We have so many players under 50 games who have such a lot of development left in them. I just wish supporters would be a little more patient with this team (previous years are irrelevant). I'm totally over the nuffies who just yell out "kick it". Yes, you can overdo handball, but the aim is to keep possession and work your way out of trouble. At one stage yesterday, the crowd around me were yelling "just kick it" when we were handballing out of trouble then switching the play in the backline. The ball ended up going downfield with an overlap on the far side for a mark to Hogan (he missed). If "we'd just kicked it" it would have been to a contest with a 50% chance of losing the ball (or maybe more given they have a lot of tall marking targets who intercepted well at times), or worse still to a lone Suns player. I can see what this side is trying to do, and it doesn't always (or often) come off. It will get better.

I blame Jack Watts. If he hadn't improved the younger McDonald wouldn't receive so much criticism.

Petracca - was a pretty good 14 disposal game. The dawes and Kent passes ( besides bruising teamates because of how hard and fast they travelled) were sublime. I am salavating at the thought of another preseason and him getting 25 plus disposals a game.

I think that's absolutely why we chased him, because we knew we could back him in for three years, even if it looked ugly we'd have a platform to build from when he left, It's why i find it interesting the comparision to the Saints, it's like comparing the Lions to say the Tigers, the Saints had a lot of finals performers, we had nothing, basically no culture, no leadership, no talent coming through, 2 wins at 58% possibly the worst side of all time. withing three years to be looking at between 8-10 wins and one of the best young lists in the game is an amazing turn around, and to be honest, i think we're ahead of what our win-loss suggests, we have dropped multiple games we should have won.

Some perspective on that awful performance yesterday (since I was too flat last night to comment): 1: Watts played the most decisive game of his career. 2: We won without the usual suspects - N Jones, J Viney, B Vince - leading the way. 3: Oscar Mac looked like a footballer. 4: Petracca and Stretch gave us some exciting glimpses of their abilities. 5: We won when we could easily have lost as opposed to one week earlier when we lost...blah blah blah. Against all that the most disappointing thing was that after Watts took a match saving mark with 58 seconds to go we still failed to close it out. Expecting a much improved effort against Hawthorn.

Cam Pedersen 1 goal 4 behinds 21 disposals 11 kicks 10 handballs 7 marks 13 tackles 16 hit outs 153 dream team points Not a bad game I would have thought...will be pushing for selection this week.

May have already been mentioned but in his presser Roos said Watts was one of the best people he's met in footy. Massive rap. Really happy for Watts.

Worked for Cousins.

You're *this* close to making me watch the whole game again purely to account for every one of his possessions. Please don't make me do it.

Just make Jack Watts Captain now. Just fucken do it already. Shoulda been Skipper on the day we drafted him.

Of course he does. He's provided more than Hogan the last two weeks. Simple as that. He most likely won't be around next year, but let's actually pick a team on form instead of who our favourties are etc.

Hogan - played through injury Brayshaw - building form nicely Tyson - reason we won OMac - best game yet

I went and here are some of my thoughts on the game. The opposition were quite poor. We are a very good contested ball team and killed them at the stoppages. By midway through the second quarter when we were outscoring them into the wind, you could tell they started to become a bit of a rabble. I think Plapp the coach is doing a pretty good job, we are a good team, they were good to watch and there were some nice pieces of play. I hope all the boys that are eligible for finals put their hand up, we will go O.k I think if we have a team of todays quality. Mitchie was good. Since Oliver, Trengove, Salem, ANB and Grimes took most of the stoppage work, they have used Mitchie off half-back. They all look for him and he was a pretty good distributor. It is as good as I've seen him play and he looked comfortable out there. Does it translate to AFL level? Not sure. Salem was also pretty good. They played him on-ball and he and Oliver cut them to ribbons. He was quick but mainly short passes and handballs so didn't get a great deal of penetration. I think it would be good for him to spend a couple more weeks at this level to get some more fitness that playing on-ball will give him and getting the ball in hand a lot. He will get back to AFL level for sure. Oliver is great to watch. He is a big bodied mid and for a kid his age to be doing what he did today against men is very impressive. He won quite a few frees and a couple of his tackles were fantastic. One guy tried to run away from him and he was just so strong as he caught him and threw him to the ground and won the free. As we all know he has lovely quick hands in close and they were great today but he also kicked well and with a bit of space always hit his target. I don't mind him staying at this level as well because he still has a lot to learn and when you get it 30 times a game he will only get better. He could improve and concentrate on forward work, I would like to see him kick a few more goals, he is so quick with the handball but occassionally I would like him to kick it himself. Anyway going beautifully. The best game Weidemann has played. He took about 10 to 12 marks today. One on one he isn't strong enough yet but he was leading more today and I don't know who said he is a bit slow because he is a good leader and took a couple of nice marks out in front of his face at good pace. He gave off a couple of goal assists, one a smart kick back to Joel Smith in a better position and another marking on a lead then dishing off to BenKen who slotted it from 50. Nice goal. I too wondered if he was maybe going to be a bust, but today was the most positive I've been about his prospects. Other days he has been brushed off the ball (this will happen again) but today he had presence and was an important part of our attack. He is a natural forward in the Reiwoldt, Watts mould and he got a few of his marks well up on the wing. He can play very tall. When he builds strength and a tank which looking at him he is an impressive build, so he should, I think he may be alright. I think he may be ahead of Watts at the same age but maybe not as skillfull, but like Watts was as a younger man he may still be a couple of pre-seasons away as well. A lot to like today though. Spenser was up against a big bloke who played a similar game. He was probably one of their best players and honours were about even. Really liked Joel Smith. He is quick, can jump, is tall and is a real chance to make it. Nearly took mark of the century (well not quite) like his old man. Still doesn't know where to go so needs a lot of coaching but handled right and he may do a Jayden Hunt. Heres hoping. Number 15 for Casey is good. Of our tall back men I liked him the most, moreso than Dunn and Garland. All Caseys players played well, Hutchy, number 1 is a good full back. 15 is tall and takes a good grab and he looks young enough that he may not have reached his peak. I would like to see the club keep him and maybe Rookie him. Newton is very confident at this level and played accordingly but like Mitchie when they go up to AFL and they don't have the freedom to create they can get lost. I think they could both make it in the right team because they are good players but they have to find a way to bring their form to the tougher level. Both were great. Trengove has class. He took a great mark and a lovely shot on goal in the third and a couple of nice passes into the 50, I think his best chance at AFL may be as a half forward who can drift forward and kick a goal. Grimes, Garlo and Dunn were all good at this level but all three made critical errors that would have pages dedicated to them if they committed such errors at AFL level. They are who they are, but I can understand how they have been kept as back up only and even how there are a few in front of each one in a queue for AFL duties. I would love to see them win a flag with Casey. Cheers