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You said "If his skill level was higher, if he didn't butcher every second kick or get pushed off contests so easily at senior level then he would have hit this number a long time ago. He is dam lucky he got 98" He didn't butcher every second kick and didn't get pushed off contests so easily. He was not lucky to get 98 games, he earned them. His development was probably smashed by our putrid club. He was captain of Vic Metro and was then crucified by being appointed Co Captain of an AFL rabble, when too young for the role. That would have affected his game. I don't recall seeing him shirk contests, he was hard at the ball. He would make a clanger or two, but we have current players doing that as well. Ask Picket Fence. He has earned games on his form this year, but a clear policy of giving games to lesser performed younger players, who may have long term potential, has cost him games he has earned the right to play. He was in our best players for many of the 98 games he played. He is no champion, but lets not rewrite history, he is no dud either. To my mind he has been treated shabbily by the club and if I was him I would leave at the end of the season.

I can't understand how anyone can be against giving Grimes 2 more games. What, will it stop our very realistic tilt at a premiership this year? Will it take precious games away from kids who just need 2 more games to become elite players? Our playing group is made up of humans, and even if not every player on the list is best friends with Grimes, they must all be acutely aware that they too might find themselves in his position one day. The way we deal with this situation will show our young playing list that we are a club that either cares and looks after its players, or a club that treats its players like property. It might be the difference between a player wanting to stay at the club or go elsewhere. A few weeks ago Jack Watts spoke about how important it was for his career to have a coach like Roos who understands that players are human. We completely underestimate how important it is for these guys to feel like they are in a supportive environment that values them. Just like every one of us wants to work somewhere that we hope will do the right thing by us, so do footballers. I hope we give Grimes 2 more games, and I believe we will.

It's my least favourite anyways

Lucky Pickett reminds us regularly.

Parking inspector?

I think you sometimes forget that Picket Fence is 12 years old.

Walker, Betts and Jenkins to be late outs.

I strongly believe dion will nominate mfc as his preffered destination and the club will work out a deal without selling the farm.

This is the key to it. He is still only a boy and there is no point knocking him around every week at this stage of his development. He's shown enough to indicate he will be a long term gun player. FFS we can get another 15 years out this fella!!

For those who want to know why Oliver was dropped, take it from Roos himself: “Our seconds played really well [on June 18]. There were some really good performances for Casey,” he said. “So there was a bit of pressure on selection and we’ve seen this year that even one poor game can lead to getting dropped. “It’s probably more about promoting [players], who have had a really good patch from Casey, rather than a bad patch of form from a senior player.” It will be the first match Wagner has missed since he made his AFL debut in round three against North Melbourne at Blundstone Arena" So it's more about the good form of the players at Casey as opposed to poor from from someone like Oliver. Harmes went back to Casey and had a ripper, Grimes and M Jones have also been playing very well too. It simply can't be ignored.

This is our BIGGEST game of the year make no mistake! If we win we will do ..as the team of 87 DID and sail into finals! Im putting some good money on a Win !

Totally agree. If he doesn't get 100 games I'll lose some respect for the Club as it will show they, like some here, don't value people. A club can't survive and thrive if it doesn't. Those using the argument that "it's a business" clearly haven't run or understand business.

I have never said that and JG can't be blamed for previous ineptitude. While not trying to pump up my own tyres, I did play footy at a reasonably high level. We had a bloke at our club who found it very difficult to crack a senior game. He was a very consistent reserve grade player and was universally loved and respected around the club. Back in the days when you had 19th and 20th men sitting on the bench, the coach saw fit to pick him in the 1st 18 in a game where we were playing the top side. In the previous 4 games, that side had won by an aggregate of 350 points. The boys were rapt that our team mate was elevated for his first senior game of the year. We knocked off the top side that week. At least half of our team had only known the bloke I speak of for 2 years tops; many knew him for less time. But everyone at the club knew what he stood for and that he was part of the heart and soul of the club. Again, some things in footy clubs transcend the game itself at times - not always, but at times.

A lot talked about gifting games, sentiment, good bloke, it's a business now, he can't adapt to the new game etc....so rather than getting bogged down in these arguments. The simple fact is Jack has been our most consistent performer at Casey this year and has earned a recall. I would be surprised if Jack didn't line up against Adelaide this weekend.

I guess I'm old school but I think there is a place for sentimentality in footy. It's about emotion and belonging and good stories. As such I think the club owes Jack at least 2 games and another chance at redemption. He was thrown to the wolves early in his career and is still suffering the consequences. His attitude throughout has been exemplary and It's not as if his form has been putrid.

I fear he might 'Go West'.

Rusty, I think you've nailed the reasons why Frost and Omac are being picked ahead of the others but either haven't realised or disagree with them. The style of football Roos and the other coaches are trying to implement does not involve any one on one defensive contests. The reason is, that a one on one contest is usually won by the attacker anyway. I'd love for Hogan, Watts, Pedo, Truck etc. to be left one or with a defender, and I don't care which defender, it could be the best in the game. We'd always have a better than 50/50 to win the contest either through a mark, a free or a crumb to advantage. As a result, they don't care if one on one is not a strength of Omac or Frost. But the ability to be mobile and agile, to read the play, to back themselves, to play as a team and play as a functional cog in the zone and provide attacking run is MUCH more important. Now I understand that if the zone falls down the man on man skill may come in handy on the last line of defense, but that is only required when the zone falls down so it is better to pick the players to execute the system than to protect against its failures.

'Gone, gone, gone!!!'........ 'He'll go'........ followed up by 'It's just my instinct' Why use that language unless you know something? It serves 3 lame purposes: 1. Makes you feel better 2. Contributes to others' panic 3. If he does go, you'll go around spruiking that you were right all along when really you knew nothing and were only trying to make yourself feel better. Of course, if he stays, everyone is happy and no one remembers any of the negative Nancy's. A win-win for you and others alike.

I want him to come to the dees, primarily to see them implode and ask for 'trade equalisation'. No one wants to go to the tigers, they have to go back down again before going up. No idea why Hardwick still has a job.

They are going to implode when Prestia chooses a different club.

He was seen buying a pair of overalls and also spotted at Bunnings purchasing a nailbag. Either he has joined a Village people cover band or he is preparing to retire.

Takes you back to the 80's when the Pies and Tigers almost sent themselves to the wall trying to lure players between Punt Rd and Hoddle St. Good times .

He might, but he didn't quote them or mention them. It was just his opinion (which, I might add, he is free to give in this thread).

The bombers disgust me. How the [censored] are the drug cheats in prime time again!!!!! Theyve spotted talent they wouldnt otherwise have spotted and they'll get pick 1 All as a result of neglecting the health of their players by injecting 34 kf them with unknown substances Its a [censored] disgrace.

Ideal opportunity for Grimes with Wagner out.

They do not have the credentials or capacity to "lead" on social issues. They should be in step with social changes and make changes where compatible with the game and not just change for change sake (or to be seen to be doing something).

This is the first season in a very long time where I think we can, as supporters, go in to each week with the feeling that we CAN win - obviously this week we will need to be at our absolute best, but if we do that then we will beat the Crows on our home turf. Playing at anything less will make it difficult but we are most certainly in with a shot.

Was gunna say AFL should stick to what it knows best. Not sure they even do that now. Good start would be turn off Friggin speakers.

None of these things are related to each other or related to the point of the OP. Bizarre rant.

Jeff's best in the ruck was thwarted with the change in the centre bounce rule. To my mind, his failure was that he didn't kick enough goals after that, in a capacity of what he should have become. A true follower/forward. 113 goals in a 13 year career is not a great return.

Pretty well I thought actually.

If there isn't a spate of injuries and Grimes doesn't make it to 100 games we'll know that the club has taken the attitude of some on this thread. If he does make it to 100 without a spate of injuries we'll know that the club values Grimes' contribution and the fabric of rewarding relationships, because if he hasn't been chosen by now there's no real reason to pick him. He's been as good or better than Newton, Neal-Bullen or Michie (playing back, but so could Grimes), who have been given games without getting the nod himself. It will be interesting to see how the club rolls...

I think the discussion is a moot point as, going by what Bernie and Roos have had to say, he'll probably play this weekend. It's rare that they drop a player after 1 game so he'll back it up the next week and get his 100 games. His form has been just as good as a Newton, ANB, Michie etc, so he deserves his chance.

You really think the players would lift because of his "loyal service in troubled times"? How many of the players on our list were there during this time (meaning they saw what state the club was in), and/or how many have played along side him? I can assure you, blokes like Vince, Dawes, Viney, Petracca, Hogan, et al, they wouldn't give two hoots about Grimes' past. Sure, they'd be happy to celebrate a teammate reaching a decent milestone, but that's where it would stop. The only one/s that would care about the rest of Grimes' baggage would be Jones and Trengove, maybe Dunn and Garland (although the latter 3 would be more worried about their immediate careers). I understand some love for Grimes - I have some for him too, but people are making it sound like he donated organs for the club. He was made co-captain of an insipid club, at a time where he was the likely candidate (due mainly to his professionalism), it's just that he didn't have the talent himself or around him to lead us out of those times. No criticism, just reality.

Goddamn. People are still jumping at shadows and studying the entrails to work out Jesse's intentions? It's pretty obvious that he's waiting to see (a) which way the wind blows on the CBA, and (b) if this is a false dawn for the MFC. He'd be crazy not to see what happens on these fronts, especially while he still has another year on his contract. Even if his heart says "stay". Why jump now when he can jump later for better $$$ ? Regardless of whether he stays or goes. The radio silence from he and his manager is perfectly sensible.

They market Robbo as "the man of the people". NewsCorp sees "the people" as foul-mouthed, overweight, barely literate drunk bogans. There's your answer.

Imagine how silly you'd sound if you said Spencer would remain the longest out of the group back then.

I don't believe we compromise the playing side of things by including Grimes. I like Stretch as a player and want to see him developed, but right now Grimes would offer as much or so close to it that it wouldn't be noticeable. The same could be said for others, such as Harmes (who I also like). Supporters get far more annoyed by the odd turnover than coaches, who expect occasional skill errors. We've hindered Grimes career. He could and should have been developed better. We owe him the two games in my opinion, especially when his form warrants inclusion. There's still room in football for sentiment and building better relationships.

Whimp! Time for some of our potential to take it up a notch or two.

If that's not incentive to get him here then I don't know what is! Richmond are my favourite club to watch implode.

That reaction to the Treloar situation, if what Niall says is true, is quintessential Richmond.

The National Draft started in 1986 and West Coast and Brisbane were introduced in 1987. Go back and look at the success of those earlier drafts and you'll see they were pretty hit and miss, with a lot more misses than hits. Adelaide came in in 1991 and while I'll acknowledge that both Adelaide and WC received advantages of players from the local SANFL and WAFL. They received nothing like the advantages of the GWS and to a lesser extent Gold Coast. Firstly, licenses for West Coast and Adelaide were applied for by the WAFL and SANFL so the money and establishment of the club's came from something other than the governing body. Secondly, these teams were fabricated in well established AFL markets where they were going to be extremely well supported both from sponsors and supporters. Accordingly, there was no push from the governing body to make sure they were successful as it turns out they were successful and continue to be successful not because of the advantages provided by the AFL. If you look at what the GWS were given and are continue to be given it's chalk and cheese. The major issue for me is that the AFL is conflicted, they run the competition and have a major and expensive investment in the GWS. They need GWS to be successful and therefore will give them an unhealthy advantage (such as the Riverina zone and academy talent). If the GWS were made to build the club similar to the way Port Adelaide and Fremantle had to, then I would have no problem with their success. Make no mistake the advantages they have been given are extraordinary. The AFL are trying to sure up an investment club in a disinterested market. They need them to be successful early and for a sustained period to make sure they get a return on their baby. You might think that I'm sooking about the situation and being dramatic. Let's revisit in a few years and see how things have gone. At some point in time the AFL has to decide if it's running a competition that is set up to be as even and equitable as possible or if it is running a series of events in the entertainment industry to maximize profits. While they are conflicted, running the competition and only some clubs it will leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Ewww! No thanks.

Generous of you ET

I'm not one to make predictions but I think he'll sign a 3-5 year extension by the end of the season. I'll bet Stuie's left nut on it.

I like the story but if it is ok with you I won't hold my breath.

Tex was a scholarship player and tied to Adelaide. We couldn't have got him.

Hopefully their bus travels via the Montague Bridge.

That's because there's less pressure and more time to execute. I don't think he has a future at the club, but I'll be very disappointed if he doesn't get to 100 games and take his rightful place on the no.31 locker. I wouldn't have had this view 10 years ago, but the older I get the more I realise that life is all about relationships and not many have had to endure the circumstances unwittingly thrust upon Jack. When he should have had a relaxed mindset and been working on his own game his head would have been in a spin as he was dealing with issues surrounding the club while also trying to be a role model for teammates. None of this was conducive to good football and making him a better player. I agree that the team and club are the big picture, but I also don't believe that either are compromised by getting Grimes to 100 games. If anything, it's the opposite. And it won't be a "hollow" milestone. His teammates will make sure of that. When history looks over its shoulder it won't remember how he got there, it will just read Jack Grimes 100 games for the Melbourne Football Club. In my view the club needs to ensure it happens.