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Boo Hoo Boo fookin Hoo, you lot. Now, don't get me wrong - I was there yesterday and very frustrated, especially because Essendon irritate the [censored] out of me with their arrogance and self-righteousness. Yuck. I left frustrated and annoyed that we were beaten in all aspects of the game, especially since I was also at last week's game and saw the pride and spirit that forced the Demons across the line. What I don't get is all this rushing about with skirts over heads, crying about this being the darkest day in Melbourne's history, how this is it! Tearing memberships up, never coming back to the G, had it with Melbourne etc etc etc. Now, I've not been following the Dees as long as the vast majority of you - I came to Oz at the end of 2005 and have been a die-hard Demon ever since. That's one year of finals in 10 years of football - surely I'm statistically better placed to call it a day than most people ?. I won't though, because despite the performance yesterday, I firmly believe that we have the nucleus of a great side. However, in the build up, we are always going to have these days, just like we are going to have the Geelong victories and pull Richmond and Collingwood's pants down. Days like Saturday will get fewer and fewer over the next few years. I find it laughable that on these forums last weekend, we were bragging about our new young guns and this week, we are hanging them out to dry. Despite some putrid performances yesterday, I saw Jack Watts hit up Hogan with an inch perfect pass from the wing and also get right into the grill of some Bombers players; saw Angus Brayshaw bang one through off one step from outside 50; saw BenKen run all day, saw Clayton Oliver tough at the ball and with clean hands; saw Jeff Garlett run half the pitch to smack the ball right amongst the Bombers fans. I'm proud to be a Melbourne supporter, proud to be part of the vociferous 30k that lifted the roof of the G last Saturday. The dark days are gone now: we are heading the right way, but we are going to get these sort of inglorious days along the way. Onwards and upwards, I say.

Coping strategies for Melbourne supporters. I am a rusted on MFC supporter and have actively been for the last 47 years. Now let me be specific, I am 55 years young, old enough to have been alive during our last premiership win. Alas I have no memory of that glorious day, being only 3 at the time. I have endured many lows and the occasional high, sadly the lows greatly out number the highs, and yet I am still here. Obviously from time to time I ask myself why. The bottom line is that I know I can’t barrack for anybody else and despite this relationship being very one sided and somewhat toxic I still love the red and the Blue and always will. My mates constantly chide me over my team of choice, but I don’t care. Stuffem! Over this prolonged period I have developed some strategies that have helped me cope. For all of you struggling with our most recent insipid performance I offer you my own personal pearls of wisdom that have helped me survive to date. 1. Never ever associate your personal happiness to the success or failure of this club. It’s not you it’s them. 2. Footballers are by and large pretty dumb, don’t rely on them. They will let you down. 3. Accept that the competition is corrupt and that any success achieved is more significant because of this. It also helps to mask the reality of our own incompetence. 4. Keep reminding yourself that the game is essentially 44 knuckle heads running around an oval kicking the crap out of a ball. Is that really worth risking your mental health for? 5. Footballers are by and large pretty dumb, don’t rely on them. They will let you down. 6. In the infinite field of all possibilities, all possibilities exist? 7. The donuts at the football are the bomb. 8. Don’t get angry, laugh at our ineptitude. When Tom McDonald decides to go on a run cheer him on right up to the point when he runs into a wall of opposition, and then laugh. 9. It’s ok to take a break from the game. 10. Footballers are by and large pretty dumb, don’t rely on them. They will let you down. 11. Divorce yourself from the result. This technique seems to work for Paul Roos 12. Don’t read the Demonland game day thread. Misery loves company. 13. Don’t read any thread predicting a favourable result, it will only get your hopes up. 14. Know that the day after a particularly depressing loss the Sun will still rise, your dog will be happy to see you and that your family will still love you despite the fact you barrack for the Dees. Every day I wake up breathing is a bonus. 15. Barracking for the MFC is Character building. Resilience be thy friend. 16. And finally most importantly. Footballers are by and large pretty dumb, don’t rely on them. They will let you down. Go Dees.

FFS. Read the article before commenting guys. "I've watched him live the last two weeks and his body language has been horrific," Lloyd told AFL.com.au's Access All Areas. "He's being so demonstrative towards his teammates. "He's getting out-bodied (in marking contests), but he's not even trying. He's either having a go at umpires or he's having a go at his teammates. "It's (Hogan's body language) that drastic and another week or two of that and they'll have no alternative but to send him back to the VFL." Tell me, is he wrong?

After reading this thread I’ve decided to sign up, so I suppose maybe it is a case of one soldier goes down and another steps up. Or piling up the clichés… anyway I have been reading this site for a while and enjoy the banter. Saturday made me realise what it takes to be a true supporter. Not the dismal performance of the team, but it was the first game in a long long time that I did not go with my good mate JR. You see, he died shortly before Christmas from Motor Neurone Disease, which is the mongrel thing that Neale Daniher has. Nobody knows how you get it, and there is no cure, it just destroys you from inside. JR was a passionate Melbourne man, a true believer, bordering on MFC OCD. In fact he used sign up and buy memberships for his family if they went or not. His son lives interstate, and hasn’t been to the G for years, but still has a Dad-paid reserved seat next to us! I don’t know how much JR spent supporting the club, but it was a LOT. He would travel to NT to watch us play, and rarely missed a home game. He would always buy merchandise to help the club, and always bought raffle tix. He was thrilled a couple of years ago to win Dudley’s Raffle, but as I explained to him it’s not that big a deal when you buy most of the tickets yourself! Anyway we missed the half of 2014 and all of last season as he became too ill to attend. I used to go round to watch the matches on telly with him. He would drag himself (literally) or be helped out of bed, get into his Melbourne gear and watch “our boys”. Towards the end he could barely breathe or talk but still made the effort to watch, even though it exhausted him. In his younger days he was a tough as nails “back pocket rover’’ (when such a thing existed!) and he deplored the lack of intensity which Dees had made into an artform. He used to tell them about it in his booming voice, and his humorous assessments of our play had everyone around us laughing. It made me very sad on Saturday – not just missing him – but to think what he would have made of that performance, but I still made myself feel a bit better imagining his comments during the game. We would have walked out of the ground vowing that’s it never again…etc but by the time we got home it was: see ya next week. Should auld acquaintance indeed

I only saw 2 and a half quarters, but fwiw... Petracca played high half-forward/mid. Unlike Hells I did see him attend at least two centre square ball-ups. Over the ground I'd say he was 70/30 forward. His day finished at around the 20 minute mark of the third quarter. I left at 3/4 time, but I don't believe he played the last. He did get contested possessions in tight, he wasn't rushed, and I saw one contested mark. In that limited showing I couldn't say he stood out as a "class above", but he was composed with the footy (didn't rush) and on a couple of occasions he used his strength to get through traffic, brush off tackles and then kick into the forward-line. When he had time he accurately spotted passes, but on a couple of those aggressive runs through the centre he wasn't quite able to pinpoint a player. To get through unscathed and show some of his trademark attributes was a positive outcome. I suspect he'd play another 3 games at Casey before being available for selection. As HB says, Trengove did look a "class above". His first half was quite prolific. He kicked beautifully, took plenty of marks and was tackling hard right in the thick of things. His tank looked really good and he covered the deck well. We know he's not a speedster, but his speed of movement was fine. He capped off the day with two goals from marks. The first (in the first) was when he made space at CHF 40 metres out and the second (in the second) was a lovely mark deep near goal when his timing ensured he took the mark at the back of a pack. I'm not physio or fitness expert, but I can honestly say that he looked fit enough to me to play next week. I know he won't, but assuming his body/foot pulls up well I can't see why he couldn't play AFL in 2 weeks. He was running as hard in the third as he was in the first. I agree with the rest of HB's summation and I was really only interested in the two mentioned above, but I must say that I really like the Kings. They are similar and both did some really classy things for talls. Down the track I'm pretty excited what both can become. I know Max is in his third year but I hope (think) they'll persist. Callum Sinclair is a valuable player who originated from Port Melbourne and it's taken him years to get to where he has. He's now 26. I did think Dunn played quite well and really don't understand why he wasn't in the side against Essendon. Hawthorn listed players included Tim O'Brien, Lovell, Brand, Pittonet, Hardwick, Miles, Stewart, Willsmore and Langford (his famous Dad was watching). Casey had quite a bit more top-up talent.

E-F-F-O-R-T Thats where we lost it. Nothing else matters. We didn't run. We didn't spread. We didn't pick up their loose players. The stats are damning. A gazillion uncontested possessions means they out ran us - all over the park. You could see it after 5 mins. Most of us in the stands could. We are used to spotting it. Don't know WTF the coaches were looking at. God knows there's enough of them up in the box.

Petracca played almost entirely on the HFF. I don't recall him starting in the middle but he may have when I wasn't paying attention. Most of his touches that I saw were in close. He would get the ball inside - hand off to a team mate - break away - get ball back and then kick. His disposal looked very clean. Trengove was in the guts. I'd almost say he was like an old fashioned Centre. In the middle for the bounces and then linking up in transition. He also looked dangerous drifting forward. Seemed to read the ball in flight better than most and was in best position to take the mark. He got two and wasn't far off clunking another couple. He didn't play like someone who had missed 2 years of footy. He looked a class above. Grimes was on the wing for most of the game. Did a few nice things, but it was a typical Grimes game. Didn't stand out. i thought Stretch was very quiet, hardly seemed to touch it in the first half. Did better in the 2nd half. One thing about Stretch which was good was that as soon as he got the ball he looked to play on to keep the ball moving. The Kings where difficult to decipher. Similar body size, similar movements, similar numbers. It's hard to say one was better than the other. I remember thinking that I hope Gawn doesn't get injured because they both looked pretty raw. ANB - I like him, he was tough, worked hard inside and outside. Has a neat kick and was good in close. He was constantly on the move and obviously has good endurance, he kept running at the end when others had slowed down. I can't judge what the level of opposition was like as I haven't watched enough VFL. There was obviously a number of Hawks players on the ground as there were a number of high jumper numbers getting around. Number 73 and 78 and 42 for BH were particularly good. I haven't been able to work out who they were.

At the end of the day we walked away with a pretty bad loss. it was horrible to watch. Walking out of the G an Essendon supporter got in my face and told me to go back to the snow. I looked him in the face and told him overly loudly " we might have been beaten today but Essendon are drug cheats forever." I thought he was going to floor me but calmer heads prevailed.i

What a load of crap. We have one of the most resilient supporter bases given our history. If Collingwood, Essendon, Hawthorn, Richmond or Carlton had gone through our dour last decade there'd be very few of them left, yet we still manage to get mid 30,000 members. Given how pathetic we've been as a football club for too long, I don't blame anyone for being negative and it's pretty bloody rich to simply say harden up and stick fat. WTF do you think we've been doing for the past decade? Sticking fat. The only part of your post I agree with is that we're a chance next week.

Lloyd is right. His attitude and body language is terrible, and had this been displayed by say Watts, everyone here would be up in arms. But we seem to have some sort of Jesse complex where he is beyond criticism. I do not care how badly we deliver the ball to him or whether we are playing him out of position. He is part of a team, and he is being selfish. I remember him giving Cross a spray last year and I thought that was horrific from a kid. I like that he wants to be successful, but sooking and having a go at teammates isn't how you go about it. It's a terrible look and it needs to be nipped in the bud.

Body language needs to improve, no doubt. But dropping him is not the way to achieve that. I'm sure Roos, McCartney or Goodwin will address it this week. Maybe Lloyd would prefer him running around laying cheap hits on opposition players?

And he looks like a medieval rent boy

He didn't give any second efforts and left his defender to run off him while he sooked to the umpires. Needs an attitude adjustment. Fast.

I'm not sure how to respond to you sometimes. You seem to be pretty calm generally and then at the drop of a hat you pipe up as if someone has attacked your identity. I'm assuming I've upset you again, (as I have with others it seems) because of my words on Garland. I'll get to that later though. I completely disagree that it was solely our midfield to blame and there are a plethora of reasons backing that view. Tom McDonald got us off to a flyer by gifting Essendon their first goal. He is a backman, a repeat offender of horrendous turnovers in our back-half and it allowed them to get their tails up early and it clearly knocked us about. The way our backline setup and executed on the weekend without a doubt worked to Essendon's favour. This 'rotating' on opponents nonsense was an enormous fail as I've said. Daniher was taking marks against several individuals, some of whom were 10+ cm shorter than him. Believing the midfield was the perpetrator of something like that simply doesn't make sense. Sure, some turnovers in the middle of the ground at times would've contributed to certain backmen being out of position but you are painting it far too black and white when everybody knows we're playing a 'Hawthorn style' of defence which simply isn't working. Your comments about the ball coming in 'quicker' I also disagree with. I remember Essendon kicking plenty of long and high balls inside 50 which Daniher ended up marking. But again, it was a combination of the following: Essendon players kicking to the advantage of Daniher so that he could run and jump at it (unlike what we were doing with Hogan), the disorganisation and decision to stick with the 'rotating' backmen idea which saw Garland + others on Daniher at those moments and also our midfield's inability to really pressure Essendon's forward entries at times. Again, not just the midfield. You like to place yourself in the 'optimist forever' camp. You consistently defend a backman who is providing SFA for us at the moment and you decide that posters are 'overreacting' after yet another loss to a rabble of a side. This is a trend. It's not a one off. It's been happening for years. None of my opening post suggested we sack or delist players, nor did I say I'd burn my membership or send a hate letter to the club. I offered a view on some of the core issues that I still believe exist at the club, in fact I don't believe. I know they exist. Because we continue to lose games like we did on Saturday. If you had the faintest clue, you'd see that it's not an overreaction. It's a sad reality. Teams simply do not switch on and off like that year after year because 'they had a bad day'. We are repeat offenders of this kind of display and it points to deeply-rooted issues that I'm interested in finding out. You are a bore mate. Contribute something. The amount of blind faith you have for a player like Garland is beyond belief. I am happy to talk about all players if I think they have fundamental issues in their game that are constantly holding back the side but at the moment I think Garland is the one who is offering the least. And these are the things you, Sat-man and others seem to consistently miss. Consistently!!! McDonald, for all of the howlers he makes, generally provides more positive play for our side than negative. It's the same with many players in our side who are criticised (rightly) for areas of their game that need lifting. What are the positive sides of McDonald's game? Generally speaking it's his run, voice, aggression, spoiling, marking and link up play that can be really valuable. Lumumba is the same. Even though he makes the odd turnover, he provides the team a dimension that we don't have and that is relevant for modern day footy. Go through all players in the backline and you'll be able to make a similar list. Until you come to Garland. What does the list look like now? Tell me? Did you watch the game at all on the weekend? Did you see the bloke's post with the images pointing out one of many issues that contribute to our backline struggle on the previous page? Garland's refusal to run. One problem of many. If you can't run as a defender in this day and age, you need to be elite in other areas. Is he elite in other areas? Kicking, defending? Spoiling? No. He is not relevant to modern day football. I'm pointing the finger at him because he is one of quite a few who are still problem players and who I will continue to single out until something changes. I'm pointing the finger at the club for signing him on a three year deal. I want change. I want this club to stop losing games like this. All of these things contribute to us losing these sorts of games.

We have a perfectly good CHF. The problem is that we're playing him at FF and ruining his games by making him sit in the square and lobbing high balls onto his head. What we need to do is let Hogan play at CHF where he belongs and put the resting/spare ruck in at FF, whether that's Pedersen, Frost, Watts or King I know not. Hogan's strength is his mobility, not his power marking. We need to give him the freedom to run his man into the ground. Weideman is a long-term prospect, not a quick fix for this season.

In : Daisy Pearce

Hogan is a gun centre-half-forward in the making, but for some reason they're playing him close to goal.

And replace him with?

I have recovered. I am not furious anymore, now I am just bloody angry.

1) Hail Roos as a genius and say the succession plan is working perfectly 2) Say we've finally turned the corner 3) Talk about our great list and mix of young and old talent 4) Praise the games of all/any of Tyson, Garland, Frost, McDonald, Watts & Hogan 5) Say we can make the 8 this year 6) Probably not post as much as I do after a loss.... I think that covers most of the current state here at Demonland?

If you've ever played a good team or a good player in any sport, the really good ones play the same way every time. They're all over you from the first second trying to score as heavily and frequently as they can. It's almost mindless to see it in action and especially to experience it happening against you. As in, it's machine like. They don't worry about if you're any good or if they "should" win, or anything really ... they just go about scoring as much as they can as quickly as they can. It's demoralising and a feeling of helplessness can set in very quickly. We should have scored the first goal against Ess, and as quickly as possible. A second one wouldn't have hurt either. Instead we let them get the first one and took our sweet time getting it back. We gave them heart and hope when we should have crushed them immediately.

I'm in Asia right now and after reading about Saturday's game, I'm not really interested in witnessing the replay thanks.

. . . you can check out any time you want but you can never leave . . .

I am trying to be more positive this week after moping around the house all weekend. And I wanted to start it off by bumping little Benny's thread and giving him a pump up. I believe in the notion that you look at the players who stand up when the team is losing, rather than the down hill skiers. We had a couple of players who were ok, like Jones and Vince, but BK was the only winner for the day.

Well that sucked all the fun out of the weekend. Those bastards beat us. Them of all clubs. Their only win of the year. Another singular achievement by the mighty Demons. Was there, surrounded by Essendon supporters. What an irritating bunch of entitled [censored] [censored] they are. The one right behind me was giggling like a child the whole game. I stuck with it so that when the tables turned I would give it right back at them. I was waiting a long time. Even at the 26 minute mark of the last I thought we would still do it. That final siren ... I still can't believe that really happened. Win it for all the clean teams, Melbourne. Or, [censored] it up and give them a win and some belief. And look damned foolish at the same time. To those who say we got ahead of ourselves. No we didn't. We should have beaten them. Maybe not by 10 goals. But we should have put them away without much trouble. Because they weren't very good. Like someone else said, I feel cheated. It felt like when C’wood won their last flag, I didn't use or read tv radio or papers for a week. Couldn't bear it. We played right into their hands. They crowded us for space and time and we played right into their hands. Was obvious right from the start what they doing. Their spread killed ours. They had players in space so often. How could we not counter that. Then they would chip it around chip it around, sideways, backwards, until they got some space and you'd look down the ground, loose men everywhere. They moved it easily compared to us. We had enough trouble just getting our hands on the ball. Always seemed to be under the pump. And when we did get our hands on the ball, we couldn't pick it up. If we did, we couldn't get it to one of our guys. If we did, he was under the pump. So many bad skill errors. I pulled the bill of my cap down a bit every time there was a particularly egregious one. Habit of mine. By half time I couldn't see anything coz it was pointing at the floor. If we found space, you'd look down the ground, plenty of loose men spreading. But the guy with the ball would stop, look around, maybe play on, maybe not. He'd kick it to the next guy in the chain. He in turn would stop, look around ... the half second delay for each possession killed us. Add it up over 3 or 4 possessions and suddenly we’re manned up and there's no-one to kick to. That hesitation, where they had none, did more than anything else to beat ourselves. We played like we were scared of losing (and clearly were), but they played with the carelessness and freedom of a side with nothing to lose. The shot from Angus in the last that went OOB summed up the whole day. I don't pretend know the dynamics of a group mindset so I don't know how a team gets into that kind of panic. And so don't want to single out any player, but here goes anyway .... Hogan needs some tough love. He needs to lead, or go to Casey until he learns to lead. Compare him to (shudder) Daniher. I know who was the most dangerous and damaging player out of the two of them. He simply cannot succeed at this level glued to the goal square expecting his mids to bomb it on his head and pick him out of a group of 3 or even 4 defenders. How to make it easy for the defenders, in one easy lesson. They know where he'll be every single time. And if he won't lead and insists on playing a solo role in a team sport, then he can leave the club and it doesn't matter where to. Coz until he pulls his head in he'll be a shadow of his potential. I thought the new, 80 interchange open style of play would suit Lumumba. Maybe it will, if we can work out how to play it again. But how the [censored] does he always manage to run back into trouble? It's like he's got agoraphobia. (Fear of open spaces, to save you a wikipedia lookup.) Tommy Mc. Dear oh dear. Dear oh dear. Set the tone early when we badly wanted the first goal. So many players who were near invisible. Only ones I could see putting in the whole time were Pedo & Tyson. But they weren't very effective. Jetta also tried his heart out. And yet ... We're not as bad as it would seem. We have good football in us. It's all attitude. But we're at a crossroad already. Next week will see if we stumble through the season like 2014 or if we will continue on from where we thought we left off. They cannot let this define the season. It was crucial on Saturday to win, by any margin. And get the monkey off our backs. Win when favourites. Next game against Carlton? Huge mental test. Goodwin to take over on match day. Roos has us playing too carefully. Last quarter against GWS shows what we can and should do all the time. I still can't believe Saturday really happened.

Totally agree. Viney said it today what we all knew. 'We lacked respect' - that in itself is simply unbelievable. A team that has absolutely ZERO respect from the rest of the competition in recent years lacks respect for another team? What a joke. When we are climbing out of the cesspit our club has been in I cannot believe we would disrespect the possibility of 4 premiership points. F&&&&&&&&&&&&&CK! I'm angrier today than game day and yesterday. I am so embarrassed to say I support this club at the moment. I love the club yes. But they are an embarrassment. A laughing stock. Put a f^&king sign up above the doors they run out that says in big capital letters (for the stupid ones) - "DON'T EMBARRASS YOURSELVES ANYMORE. DON'T EMBARRASS YOUR FANS ANYMORE, AND DON"T ALLOW YOURSELVES TO BE THE LAUGHING STOCK OF THIS COMPETITION" If that does not serve to remind these clowns then tattoo on their thick foreheads. I have had enough of this [censored].

Game Plan: we had no structure and played like a lowly division suburban team. This was expected of EFC and not us...it was reversed, they were the better organised team by a long way. It's amazing we kept in the game for so long. I'm pretty certain this is not the plan that Goodwin & Roos have been working on but that's what we got on Saturday. Some of the players reverted to selfish &/or emotional acts that screwed the team structures. l will single out 3 from the leadership group. Jones who went back to the old habit of "I will do it all myself" instead of using better placed teammates, Vince who followed Jones & Gawn who lost the plot on a few occasions and decided to see how far he could belt the ball from centre bounce downs putting all his mids offside. From the team in general the bombing the ball into the forward line was Moloney like in it's execution and the taking of safe options rather than taking the game on was as I mentioned in a previous thread...they played to win and we didn't The List: Is still a work in progress...I mentioned in an earlier preseason thread about best 22 that we actually don't have the depth we think we have, it's improving but still a long way off. Off the top of my head.. Jetta: a credit that he turned his career around and goes all right. Downside, he lacks leg speed which can bring him unstuck and doesn't give us much going the other way. Tommy Mac: still a work in progress and I reckon he's one that does get a bit ahead of himself, obviously needs a lot of work on decision making and kicking. Dunn: coming towards the end, we might still get a bit more footy from him but don't expect him as part of future success Salem: good kicking skills but disappointing to date, behind in his development to where he should be. Slow to make a move, doesn't read the ball well enough at the mo to be a HB, his opponent gets a break on him too easily. O Mac: a kid, not sure if he's got the composure but we can give him time. Shouldn't have played last week. Garland: seems lost, not a part of the future on recent form. Vince: been really good for us, probably really needs to play mid to half forward, I don't think HB is working for him. M.Jones: depth at best, great battler and I love what he's done to get a game but doesn't have the tricks to be a good AFL player. Kent: despite all the love for him on this site he's very lazy and at the moment is VFL level. He needs to work a lot harder and find some real tricks if he's to be a good forward in AFL football. The first trick he needs is to get the ball, another is to kick straight and not be wasteful. Tyson: has dropped off a bit but is still an AFL footballer. Needs to work on his game, I see him as a Terry Wallace type. He's very strong in the contest but needs to give his first option. At times he is badly let down by teammates around him not making proper position for him. Kennedy: going alright, looks like he will make the grade. Starting to show the promise from his junior years. Oliver: a good kid who needs to settle. Must balance between handball and kicking, get that touch of Moloney bombing out of his game and get his endurance running up. Bugg: Depth at best. heart in mouth when he has the ball, doesn't use it well. Gawn: Great prospect but needs help. Will burn out by the 2nd half of the season if we're not careful. Lost the plot a few times on Saturday and needs to get that out of his game. N. Jones: Heart & soul but as a leader can't afford to go back into his selfish game. Must work to bring his teammates into the game when things are going bad and not try to do it himself. Hogan: sign the contract son, distracted at the moment and way below best Pedersen: good VFL player Dawes: finished before he came here Garlett: like all good small forwards will have good days and bad but well worth his place and the price we payed. Harmes: Depth, a lot of work to do or he's gone. Watts: Going to have good days, some average, some not so great. Will never be the star player we hoped for but will be more than ok. Brayshaw: Not worried about him, will be a really good to great MFC player. Viney: Tough and hard, still learning the game. Like Brayshaw, not worried about him. 'H': Wasted trade, go into politics 'H' Stretch: a kid, give him some time. He has a lot going for him young Billy, hope he makes it. ANB: another kid, does have some tricks and knows how to get the ball so I would expect to see him ahead of Kent and Harmes soon. Frost: would like to see him settle as a defender before I make up my mind on him. I think he is played unfairly out of position for the supposed benefit of the team. It's worked so well he got dropped from a winning side. VDB: good story but overrated at the moment. Can't deny his endeavour but has a long way to go. Decision making an issue, concentration and kicking needs work although I think this is often linked with decision making. JKH: can't see him making it, depth at best. Not enough leg speed and tricks for a player of his height. Grimes: maybe the last year for Jack. I hope not but the FD don't seem to have faith in him. I reckon he lost his way a bit with the captaincy and injury prior. Not physically strong enough in the contest and his disposal and decision making lack. Hunt: a kid with pace...we need a kid with pace (a couple of them) who can get the ball and kick it well. Get the ball kid and kick it well then there is a place for you.. Terlich: Final season I would suspect. White: Liked the look of him at the end of last season. Good kick and strong at the contest, this is a make or break year for him. Spencer: Back up for Gawn, a battler but he does give his all. Will stay until we can find that elusive forward/ruck. Trengove: a class player, we better pray he gets back and soon. We need his class and leadership on the ground. Some of the other kids have yet to play a game so hard to mark them but Petracca and Weideman need to fulfil their potential if we are to get anywhere.

Thanks for the reply - I should clarify that I have over 35 years supporting Plymouth Argyle back home, so I'm certainly no stranger to futility and despair. And I understand the frustration and emotion - believe me, I've totally bought into it. But yesterday was not as gut wrenching as watching Port or Brisbane kicking bags against us with no reply, like a few years ago. Then, we didn't even have the cattle - now we have, at least, the basis of a really good team. Still a lot more hard work needs to be done and lessons to be learned. I also get the frustrations, when looking at the Doggies' rebuild, but they were never coming from as far back as we were: they played finals, had a couple of lean years and then re-loaded. None of the rebuild teams had such a rotten off-field culture as we have had. Getting rid of the stink of that has been hard enough, but to turn around years of shithouse recruiting, attract players to the sinking ship and formulate some semblance of a game plan was never going to be an easy fix.

Boo Hoo my ass mate. Any team that drops games like that so easily when it should have pantsed a team of nancy boys and washed up retiress only put together 2 months ago and decides to move on as if everything is all fine is going nowhere fast. If you accept that that performance is ok and think its a sign of us moving forward then I have pitty on your poor Demon soul. The same applies to Roos and anyone else connected with the club. For as long as pea heart performances continue I will continue to demand better. No other genuine club members would accept BS like we witnessed Sat. Dont see why our hard earned and sacrifices to get to games and support is any diff to other supporters. They dont accept it and they certainly dont go quietly and wouldnt if they had to put up with the rubbish we are dished up with most games

I'm not sure where you're from originally 3183, but maybe in your 11 years so far you haven't picked up that although Aussies aren't generally overly emotional and are very matter of fact to the point where our humor is based on irony and sarcasm, we take our game very seriously, and the emotions from a loss such as this ride high for at least 24 hours. After that, most calm down, think ahead and reconsider where they think we're really at. It's just the Aussie football way mate, and part of what makes our game so great. There's posters in this forum who have passionately followed the Dees for 50 years and not seen the biggest success, so I don't know that mentioning your 10 years of struggle will help your cause, although I do get where you're coming from. Deep down we all now things are gradually changing, but on top of the frustration of how slowly it's happening (while we watch the Doggies fulfill our dreams), there's the continual losses like this just when we start to let ourselves hope again, and not just that, but before you moved here Essendon absolutely bullied us in a rare Grand Final appearance and they have the least gracious supporters possibly in the world. Everyone cops the wack differently, it doesn't make one a better supporter than another, we all have our ways but anyone who is still an MFC fan after the last 10 years is a true die-hard guts of steel supporter.

Eh, H is on when the team is on. Provides run and takes the game on when others don't. We lament the team's slow drag forward and inability to run into space but he's the only one that does confidently. It's a massive liability but every good teams has that hard runner out of defense. He just runs into a brick wall because he looks ahead and realises his teammates aren't running both ways. He's not the problem. The way he takes it on is something we need from his 21 teammates.

In: Goodwin Out: Roos Once a coach moves from 'we' to 'they' aka the last press conference, there's a question around their own buy in to the cause....imo The next step for Roosy is to talk in the third person. 'Paul is not happy with the performance'

Dear Demonland, I am not a regular poster but I have been religiously reading Demonland for several years now. However, after watching (most of) the match against Essendon I’ve decided it is time to bid farewell to Demonland and take a break from watching football indefinitely. I have lost the enjoyment of following the game and club I have loved for the last 27 odd years. The performance of our players against a club I despise so much (ever since their dirty tactics against our young players in the 2000 grand final) was nothing short of soul destroying. Of course there have been worse defeats than that of late, but after all the positivity around the club during the pre-season it is so deflating and incomprehensible to see the team play with so little spirit and coherency. But that’s not the only reason. The state of the game and the management of the league has becoming a complete farce with the constant rule changes, draft manipulations, and unequal fixturing, not to mention the appallingly inconsistent decision-making of the AFL governing body. Watching clubs like Hawthorn, Geelong and Sydney consistently being able to top up their lists without dropping from contention is a complete farce and against the spirit of the game as far as I am concerned. But before I sign off I wanted to say a big thank you to all those that contribute to this forum. I have greatly enjoyed the incredible amount of passion and insightful input provided by the majority of posters. As someone who has been living overseas the last few years with limited opportunities to see the Dees play on the hallowed turf of the MCG I have found the forum to be a great resource. Particularly, the training reports which help keep the fires burning during the off season. I hope you all continue to keep the passion going and I hope the club will (eventually) turn things around and become a finals team once again. Ascobar P.S. Shout outs to my favourite posters in Whispering Jack, Steve the Man, and Saty plus all the moderators and administrators for keeping the forum afloat.

Picket knows those types of sheilas.

The headline is rubbish, he wouldn't have written that, but I agree with his fairly reasonable sentiment. To me, all he's saying is he's noticed it and it needs to be addressed, and if he can't sort it out at AFL level then he may have to at VFL level. Totally agree the delivery has been terrible, but a good player will fight on, maybe move up the ground, and the last thing they'll do is sook it up and give up on applying pressure. I'm not in panic mode about it, but I'd rather it be looked at now by the coaches than let it fester and eventually create division amongst the playing group. Just needs to redirect his "competitive beast" mode back towards the opposition and away from team mates and umpires. I hated Lloyd as a player. Hated. But I don't actually mind him as a commentator, and the actual article he's written is pretty spot on, it's just whomever wrote the headline to make it sound more "sexy" that has done him a disservice.

https://six6six.smugmug.com/photos/swfpopup.mg?AlbumKey=g9Kk8p

sorry...but really - that it was you assumed ???? You really believe that the game plan changed from Goodwin to Roos ??? The short answer is that is not the game plan - and we did not bomb it for 1 and half quarters last week. There is nothing wrong with bombing it in long as you do it very quickly and to the advantage side of a player - that gives you a better than even chance in a one on one contest. However thats not what we have been doing - we were slow and reactive and bomb it in long to a crowded forward. You did note on Saturday that our uncontested possession was down 100 ! ( that was not evident in the NAB challenge) - we were almost even in the contested possession. That tells you we were ok in the contest but the minute we got the ball no one worked hard enough to make space. No worked to get free on the outside. We were lazy. There is a marked step up from NAB to the real McCoy of home and away - and for 6 quarters either teams did not let us play the way we want to or we simply did not play the way we wanted ( on Saturday I suspect the later). I feel sorry for any forward the way the ball is coming in. However there is nothing incorrect in the article by Lloyd on Hogan and Jesse's body language and some of his efforts were poor during the NAB challenge as well.

Delete my death threats from all 22 players on the day twitter accounts and stop sending them letters written in my blood.

Matthew Lloyd is such an A grade toss pot. Take a dive Lloydy

Apparently Matthew Lloyd and Terry Wallace have criticised Jesse's poor body language on field. Bernie Vince has come to his defence saying the delivery was poor. Nonetheless, whatever one thinks of Lloyd and Wallace I think it is a good thing that the media stop treating Jesse like some sort of demigod and remind him he has a long way to go. Then maybe the primadonna antics will stop - if for no other reason that it is poor teamwork by Jesse.

....consume the same amount of beer as I did after the Essendon loss.

Outs: Kent first one out and whilst he has the leg speed we crave, he doesn't gut run and lacks the ability or want to bring himself into the game, he needs at least 2 weeks to a month in the VFL to find desire and the application required on a permanent basis to be an AFL player Brayshaw - looked underdone and I think Oliver may have been emotionally spent from the media attention last week, so would give him a light week on the track Harmes - not like the rest he has the work ethic but had a shocker although he wasn't Robinson Crusoe Pedersen - wasn't our worst and I see merit with him to give big Max a chop out against Goldy, but we look top heavy and slow, so Frost comes in for him Ins Dunn - needs to come back in experienced big bodied defender must in against Norf Frost - needed to assist with the forward structure, give ANB - smart footballer and a good decision maker which we need more and more of Stretch - need his run from the wing B: Jetta Dunn Garland HB:Salem Tmac Lumumba C: Stretch Oliver Vince HF: Watts Frost Kennedy F: Garlett Hogan ANB R: Gawn, Jones, Viney I/C:Bugg, Tyson, Vanders & M, Jones Lumumba is lucky to stay in as his turnovers and ability to run into trouble killed us, Bugg and M Jones need defensive forward roles and run with roles on Harvey/Atley split between them, Wells is the one I struggle to find a match up for

There was a reason we had over 100 less uncontested possessions than Essendon - we refused to run and create separation and space. Lazy and stagnant. H will occasionally turn the ball over, but the reason Roos rated him was valid - he was one of the few who was prepared to run - he would run and look ahead and see statues. When he was on at Collingwood for many seasons, he would do stupid stuff as he will do with us but he was constantly the first defender that would grab and go and if the lazy footballers upfield would work a bit harder to get free then you would get better value out of him. He didn't have a good game but neither did anyone else save Kennedy.

Thanks guys, for the replies. I can only commend Melbourne supporters as the most loyal bunch of all: 35k + after what we've been dished up is a great figure, and when that Members and Olympic wing starts firing, it sounds like 60 or 70k. I hope that the boys respond accordingly this weekend. Remember the Doggies, Richmond and Geelong all had their horrible games last year against the strong underdog (us), who wanted it more than they did. I hope it's a reality check that we still have a long way to go, but the journey back has at least begun. re Plymouth Argyle: they were that bad when I was growing up that, until I was about 7, I thought they were called Plymouth Argyle Nil.

That's a pathetic reply, doesn't matter how long you have supported the Dees, being a 'younger' supporter though means you actually don't have the annoying habit of constantly looking back over the shoulder and rewriting history

As much as I have sunk pretty low from this appalling game and its loud testament to our defective club, a couple of things have comforted me since. a) The fact that round 2 has been a glorious mess all round. b) The fact that GWS solidly beat an alleged 'top team', which makes us look more like we are wildly fluctuating in form, rather than just 'ordinary then craptacular' c) We are ahead of Fremanlte (see 'a') d) The sheer throat-cutting intensity of wailing on here is reminding me that things aren't actually all that bad. It's kind of like when someone who is 'a bit authoritarian' is in a conversation with an out and out loony fascist... at first its all 'yes, I totally agree I think a bit of conscription to bring some discipline into young people would be a good idea' and then suddenly they other guy is saying 'and teach them to organise into roving bands enforcing god's law on the heathenfags and protecting our vital bodily essences from the commie prevert fallen women with their evil flouride'. I guess what I'm saying is, the wild unreality here is sometimes a handy check on where reality is.

Yes it is - but your response isn't.

Sounds good to me Hells

We killed Watts, lets also kill this kid because of a poor game by the club. We have moved on from this type of over reaction thankfully. Let him find his feet and if he earns a game then play him.

Daniher towers over Garland, and his reach and leap is incredible. I'm not sure the player who is the right match-up for him is even on our list. OMac might be it, but not yet.