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2014, you have my attention. Do go on.

Big fan of this kid I thought he finished off the year really well. Hoping he carries that form into pre season and has a big 2015 because I can see him being a permanent 22 every week. Has a beautiful kick on him and love his toughness and willingness to take the game on. Has a good mix of playing inside and out. Id love to see Viv continue to develop into a fine midfielder for us. Thought he game against Hawthorn and GWS were very promising as a midfielder. Thoughts?

Brayshaw recorded a 2.82 for the 20m sprint. Bloody hell this reminds me of when everyone was saying Wines is too slow, don't pick him blah blah bah. Brayshaw is on par with Wines and Dom Tyson in terms of that his first 20m are quick but also you don't have to have lighting pace as long as you get to each contest. Which Brayshaw does. Another thing is your mate clearly has no idea. Brayshaw doesn't let others give it to him he goes and gets it himself. He is a hunter of the ball much like Wines and Tyson. Last year Brawyshaw laid a staggering 20 tackles against the ,Murray Bushrangers. While Wright is a good player many experts have said he is pretty soft. Listening to a podcast by Cal Twomey and he even mentioned that Wright needs to get some physicality into him. If a big 203cm 100kg bloke cant do that then that is a bit of an issue. Plus we have enough soft players in our team. Time to recruit brute strength and grunt. Something Brayshaw and McCartin have. I personally think your mate is just full of [censored].

Oh lord that makes two of us in terms of agreement with PF.. What is the world coming to. In all honesty im slowly coming to terms that McCartin at the dees wouldn't be a bad selection at all. At the moment our two best forwards are Dawes and Hogan. It is a sad reality that a kid that has played zero AFL games, struggled all year with a back injury is still is probably our number 1 forward... This is where McCartin is pretty important. Get him into the system to work alongside Dawes who probably has one of the biggest work rate in the AFL along with Riewoldt. Strap Patty next to Dawes all pre season and tell him to follow him every where, learn the good habits and see what it takes to become a good forward. As it stand he is 194cm and 95kg. By next year come round one he could be up to 98kg and potentially grow a centimeter or two. He is ready made for senior level. He is not in a Jack Watts situation where he will be developing a body and getting a feel for the big boys while we wait 7 years for him to put on weight and show some aggression (still waiting). Physically ready to go and that's what we need now. I remember how demonland was a wreck around the time we missed out on Jack Darling because we all knew he was physically ready. He came out in his first year and kicked 24 goals.. Id take that any day of the week! Tom Hawkins played 9 games in his first year and kicked 12.10 that's 22 scoring shorts for a first year forward. Again il take that! We also need to someone to take over from Dawes in about 2 to 4 years time. He will be cherry ripe by then. Hogan at CHF and big Patty at FF, you could see that on the team sheet for the next 10 years. As much as we need mids I think this is too much of a good opportunity to pass on a good old fashion traditional forward since the great David Neitz. We tried with Newton it didn't work, Tried with Watts no luck. Mitch Clark no good aswell. Brayshaw and Newton are ready made midfielders which will be a bonus for us. But McCartin is the icing on the cake.

My goodness, can't believe I'm in agreement with fence. Brayshaw and McCartin or Wright if Petracca is gone. No 'reaching' for a mid who's hovering around the 5-10 mark of best available. And certainly no picking up an underage key defender who's coming off a knee reco who thinks he might play as a mid but has never done so.

I suspect once Bomber Thompson put his name out-there for the Don's Job at their B&F night, and then the club subsequently reneged on firing Hird, that Thompson has now thrown his hands put in the air and said "I give up, I am out of here" and therefore sees no reason why he should pay the fine if he no longer has any AFL ambitions. The question I ask though is what does Tania and James Hird have on Little and the current EFC board. My lawyer friends tell me this is a pretty straight forward case: Hird has been negligent and there is a very clear case for him to be dismissed for gross incompetence without compensation. Instead he was signed on for an additional two years for just about the top salary for a coach in the AFL, he was then rubbed out for 12 months for failing to implement adequate governance, but was not only paid his full salary but he and his family was sent off to France on a prestigious short form MBA at one of the top universities in the world accompanied by his wife and kids. Conservatively would have cost Essendon all up between $1.5 and $2m. Now, when 34 of the players who played under him received infraction notices, he still is able to hang onto his job in spite of the fact that he is pursuing legal action directly against the wishes of Little and the EFC board supposedly for legal technicalities. I say again my legal mates think this is very straight forward case of incompetence. He must have something else on them, possibly unrelated to the drugs saga. That seems the only explanation. If I am right then it will come out, and it will become an even bigger scandal than it is now. My contacts in the legal profession have a very good idea of what it is, and if they are right, it will make the other sporting/social scandal in the last three years look tame by comparison, and will create international headlines even if there is no awareness of AFL as such in the international news outlets. There is much more behind this than meets the eye and it is eye-bogglingly scandalous! Hird is a creep.

It is a concern 'dazzle', but there are a lot that do one knee then go on to have a great career. Robert Murphy is one that comes to mind. He has everything to be a star but if he hadn't done the knee we wouldn't be having this discussion, he would be heading to St Kilda at number one.

From the AFL website "Like many knee injuries, the incident was thought to be relatively innocuous. Lever jumped, stretched and punched the ball away in a contest, but came down on his leg the wrong way." About par for doing an ACL - the vast majority are done either landing or chageing direction. This doesn't mean he has an inherent weakness like those on here wringing their own necks would have you believe. The knee for one reason or another rotates and bends inwards - from front on its called valgus ( bowing inwards). This happens in most landing and cutting movements however in ACL injuries, the angle is generally far greater than normal. Could be a technique issue or a lack of proprioception or the turf giving way or he was knocked off balance just before landing. The current thoughts on rehab and prevention are to teach how to land and turn/cut keeping the knee from bending inwards. It's all about leg control from the glutes/core. The research is showing good results with preventative training (following the PEP program/FIFA11 style exercises) The surgery and rehab is far better now than when Schwartz did his initially and in my opinion (after 20 years working in sports physiotherapy) poses no real further risk of injury if the surgery and rehab has been successfully implemented than any other young kid who hasn't gone through it and come out the other side. Yes there are instances of particular people that have had numerous reco's but there is nothing to suggest this would be the case. And how many of those recurrent ones are due to inherent weaknesses? Could it be that the surgery or the rehab wasn't up to scratch? One would hope that serious improvements have been made in the last 2 decades.

The positive is he is a bit of a jack of all trades: - Strong body - Decent height - Can take a mark - Wins it in close - Can run and link up - Can use it nicely (especially if not under much pressure) The negatives are he's a master of none. Versatility is great but you have to do things well enough to be steady in the side. He got a long period out of the side season. I hope next year they give him a really strong run at it. I'm still glad we have him. But I hope he's fitter and faster this preseason because from there he'll be more successful at being a nice versatile midfielder who can play anywhere through the midfield, half back or half forward. He wasn't all that productive but battled it out against the Hawks and even though he didn't get much of it I thought he used the ball very well in the last game against North from half back.

So what would you do? Take a mid you rated between 5 and 10 or take the bloke you rated 3? I'd take the bloke I rated 3.

Players like Michie are vital to a team, midfield depth is paramount and you need competition for a spot.

If Newton comes in and we draft Brayshaw then the competition for mid spots will be fierce. Michie, Riley, Jones M and others will be up for one or two spots. It will be interesting to see who rises to the top especially if Salem, Kennedy Harris and Toumpas start competing.

Not sure about bail's ability to get the ball enough as a mid. Still see his best role gut running between the arcs, pushing up the ground defensively and running hard forward once we win the ball back. Thought his finishing improved in 2014. Would love him to become a 20-30 goal a year player.

No where else in the world does the governing body cook the books like the AFL. I've seen no argument by anyone that truly justifies what the AFL does. It's an absolute disgrace

Thanks for the update. And in recent news MFC has just signed Mitch Clark from Brisbane in a 4 year deal. What a coup for the club.

Past list management and admin mishaps are the reason we're in this conundrum. We have an opportunity to make a player upgrade and Id be paying either McKenzie or Evans out. It makes our past list management and admin look bad. But not our current one. The fact that we've just delisted three former top 20 draft picks proves how badly we've managed, recruited and developed in the past. Any opportunity to upgrade our list should be jumped at. Especially if it's for McKenzie or Evans. Two players who shouldn't be on our list.

At first i thought you meant this spud:

GWS, an expensive drain on Aussie Rules, congrats Western Sydney Wanderers on winning the Asian Champions League after a courageous overnight draw in Riyadh. Started after GWS, on much lower funding. A genuine, grass roots football organisation. On the weekend, Gill said they wanted to collaborate with football in western Sydney. Well now they are going to have to. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-11-02/western-sydney-wanderers-win-asian-champions-league-title/5860430

Season 5??What a show this will be!

WSW winning the asian cup is an achievement in australian soccer second only to qualifying and then reaching the 2nd round of the 2006 world cup. I have been part of my local club for the last 8 years or so. i have been a hardcore demon for the last 26. the last few years i have found myself caring less and less about the AFL - i no longer even watch games not involving melbourne. the game has changed for the worse - i think the afl saw soccer coming and wanted mums to keep their kids playing footy and so changed the rules to make the game softer with less contact. footy from 10 years ago was harder with more contests and a much tougher game than todays rolling mauls and keepings off (not to mention soft free kicks). they have changed footy for the worse and people are turning off. also the clubs have gone away from being "clubs" and talk more about "brand" there is also the amount of artificial hype around the game now. its over done and horrible. dont change who you are. people love the afl for what it was. soccer changes for no one - and more and more people love it.

Please be careful where you're going with this.Essendon might possibly have received advice that it should not act on Hird's position until the Federal Court matter is finally resolved and with it the question of whether sanctions will be applied to Essendon players and other personnel including even Hird himself. I think his position as coach is untenable and that the Bomber hierarchy has its hands tied at the moment. It's a sorry state of affairs for any club to be in and thankfully it's not us because it would virtually be our death knell.

This is delicious. Feel free to send me a PM with what you've heard

Please don't paint yourself as a body language expert. It makes you appear petty by claiming he was mentally checked out all year. Many of his performances lie in total contrast to that claim. It is flat out wrong, and I say that as someone who has criticised his laziness at times on the field. Even when he returned to the defence, you could see his annoyance when he was beaten by his man. Chip's competitiveness and desire to win is one of the main reasons he's no longer at the club.

45k against Essendon or Richmond is much better than 17k v GWS or GC.

Yep, and picking 'best available' could've ensured no Molan, Gysberts, Tapscott, Cook nightmares. Best available, every time, not drafting for perceived needs.

In previous years we didn't have what is on paper one of the very best coaching panels in the league, a gun CEO, and a preceding season where in the first half at least, we started to resemble a professional football side. The reasons for signing up are as plain as the nose on your face, and to that extent, it is a bit of a silly thread. If you post on Demonland, you surely care enough to sign up.

The second one is after the second list lodgement which is on about 15 November and the third is a week or so after the draft. So Clubs can reassess their lists after the Delisted Free Agency period and any players they have picked up which might cause other players to be delisted, thus creating new spaces that allow a delisted free agent to be picked up that couldn't have been in the first period. Same thing applies after the draft. Some teams may not have used picks they thought they would because players they wanted weren't available or whatever other reason so they have availability to pick up DFA's that they wouldn't have taken before the draft.

Yep agree which is why he is so imposing in one on ones! Double teamed he still takes "PACK GRABS" Who else in our team is capable of doing that consistently as a forward? Plus at 194 Cmon Dees grab him and develop a great spine in years to come FROST - MC DONALD - DAWES/ HOGAN - MC CARTIN And if we secure mids Brayshaw and Newton together with the improvement of Tyson and rotational combo of Pigdog, Vince, Michie, Jones, gives real reason for optimism! Add the rebound of Lamumba, the X factor of Howe either forward or back, plus proven crumber in Garlett this team will be potentially sound, up and about and dangerous!

Not to pile on here but the NFL has a random fixture where you play those in your division every year but go through every other club other the next 3 to 4 years. There is no fixturing of the glamour teams against each other every year, there is no rewarding for good performance or punishment for bad, it is simply a fixture to give every team as much of an even chance at winning and making money. Monday night games (their Friday nights) are far more shared than our glamour nights. They manage this noble attempt at parity with a 16 game season with 32 teams, and here we are whinging about the fact that we can't make a fair draw with 22 games for 18 teams...

Fair scalp.....

Why? His odd behaviour over a long period 'raises the possibility' - nothing more than that.

Possible new Director of High Performance for MessyDrugs

I don't think they'd send him to the PSD on principle, it's just pure trade economics. The sort of deal many on here wanted would have been absolutely no value to GWS. Their bargaining position was St Kilda's interest combined with #1 PSD pick - they had no incentive whatsoever to accept any garbage from us. Pick 23 was the only thing we had of value to them, and they gave back the next two picks they had available. Frost was the man we wanted and this trade, as far as I can see was the only avenue available to us to get him.

Oops ... well it was either me or the autospell but it does explain why I've been having trouble logging in as Whispering Jake.

You only have to look st Alex Johnson and Morabito with the on going ACL problems. We drafted Max Gawn who had a knee reco and to this day he is still battling knee problems. Unfortunately I have now come to the conclusion that its just too much of a risk to use pick 3 on him.

The Afl has gifted us a joke of an easy draw, for the prime reason of enabling us to rise up the ladder. We play St.kilda, GWS, and Bulldogs twice. We don't have to play Carlton, Essendon or North at Etihad. We play 1 less game at Etihad than last year. We travel only 5 times - as much as Essendon and Collingwood. We play 13 games at our home ground- 1 more than last year. We have been given a commercially horrible draw. And we bloody well deserve it as we have been a disgrace of an organisation since 2007. What's there to complain about?

Sooooooo Luke Tapscott..

Yeah.. this was posted already in this thread on page 2.

That list is carrying a 3-4 blokes but for the first time in a long time when I sit down to write out my best 22 I don't have 10 blokes under the heading 'Not up to it'.

Height is one thing... but I’d more interested in their shoulder spans... seems the players being referred to are broad hence more better able to protect the drop zone / marks. Cook, narrow shoulders, fitzy, narrow, daws, broad, niets, broad, fev, broad... McCartin and Hoags both seem on the broader side. Breadth also = mass and strength through the contest? Thoughts? Is this a better attribute than height?

Forget if he can actually play footy??

Signed up. I sign up every year. Some years I go to lots of games, some years (e.g. 2012) I go to virtually none. But membership gives me the right to say "These are MY BOYS and they're playing shite / playing well / showing some promise / all farked up" or whatever. And I can say it with a sense of ownership. They are MY team. If I'm just a supporter, I haven't fully bought in.

Seriously just delist Evans and pay him out. Forget about rookie him at all he is behind about 8 midfielders on our list. Id rather take a developing key forward or quick mid in the rookie draft then clog it up with Evans.

Now that Membrey has become a Saint under DFA, we could have lost Frost in the PSD to them. We made the right call.

Always renew the membership, downgrade if you have to but always renew.

A system that perpetually penalises the weaker teams. It doesn't exist any where else in the worlf

I know but you were pointing at Fitzpatrick with your reference and I think he is fair game. As chairman he has influence over all decisions made even if he is not directly involved. Not investigating Carlton over tanking and the AFL deal with the Homebush stadium are prime examples. The only thing transparent about the AFL is their lack of integrity. It's there for all to see, unfortunately the media know who pays their bills and whilst they will kick up about some things this they won't touch with a barge pole. Isn't that right Grant Thomas?

That is a terrible fixture for us in terms of income. We have a home game against Collingwood. We don't have a home game against Carlton, Richmond, Essendon, Hawthorn or Geelong. I [censored] hate the AFL, and everything about it. I hate their transparent and unfair agenda to help certain clubs become successful at the expense of others. Once again we have the worst draw by a country mile, the dogs have home games against Carlton & Collingwood, saints get Carlton, Essendon, Hawthorn, Richmond and Geelong FFS, they [censored] finished last. How the [censored] are we meant to build for the future. If it wasn't for my emotional ties to the MFC I would have walked away from the sport years ago. The AFL can gagf, they are corrupt and continually influence the results to achieve their own agendas.

By way of adding to the above, here is a picture of where our list stands officially as of yesterday's list lodgement:- 2015 MELBOURNE LIST Primary list 1. Bail, Rohan 2. Barry, Dominic 3. Cross, Daniel 4. Dawes, Chris 5. Dunn, Lynden 6. Evans, Michael 7. Fitzpatrick, Jack 8. Frost, Sam 9. Garland, Colin 10. Garlett, Jeff 11. Gawn, Max 12. Grimes, Jack 13. Hogan, Jesse 14. Howe, Jeremy 15. Hunt, Jayden 16. Jamar, Mark 17. Jetta, Neville 18. Jones, Matt 19. Jones, Nathan 20. Kennedy-Harris, Jay 21. Kent, Dean 22. Lumumba, Heritier 23. McDonald, Tom 24. McKenzie, Jordie 25. Michie, Viv 26. Pedersen, Cameron 27. Riley, Aidan 28. Salem, Christian 29. Spencer, Jake 30. Stretch, Billy 31. Terlich, Dean 32. Toumpas, Jimmy 33. Trengove, Jack 34. Tyson, Dom 35. Vince, Bernie 36. Viney, Jack 37. Watts, Jack 38. National Draft Pick 2 39. National Draft Pick 3 40. National Draft Pick 40 Rookie list 41. Harmes, James 42. King, Max 43. Rookie Draft Pick 2 44. Rookie Draft Pick 20 The list might change with further list lodgement before the National Draft and possible delisted free agency inclusions but any additional draft picks can only be gained by delisting or retirement of players but note all current players are contracted.

It is a donation to the club we love. I pay my membership and wear it with pride. I would hate to be seen as a fair weather member. When we are successful I want people to know that I was there in the dark years, I am a true supporter,