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I think it's really poor form to give the bloke a backhander when he's calling it quits.

Frawley hasn't made a decision until he has personally told satyricon that he has made a decision, ok? Why is it so hard for people to understand..?

Let's get it back on track. I have it on good authority that if we can satisfy the Giants Kristian Jaksch is keen to play for Melbourne. Both Tyson and Viney are key pieces in his decision. Carlton are super keen and the bidding will be against them. Good authority that Mitch Grigg will be hunted. He was interested in our approach last year but Adelaide promised him game time. This year he's been completely burned by them. Hoping mid 50's, Viv Michie style pick. Finally, I have it on great authority that Frawley won't be a Demon next year.

The above is utterly ridiculous to the fabric of contract based employment in an equalised sport. The NRL allows this but announces it publically, so the AFLPA's solution is just as stupid but without the ethical detergent of telling the truth... Some of you would say "this happens anyway, rp, the deals are done way in advance!" and while you are correct that the 'deals' may be done - the contract is not. To have a player sign a contract months before his previous one is to expire leads us down the road of European football where a player is allowed to sign with anyone up to 6 months before their contract is up. The AFLPA say it is because of 'security' but why should they have the security of TWO current contracts. Fulfil your contract and sign another in the month it expires. Also, clubs should not have the added liability of having these deals set in concrete 8 months before the player is theirs - why should the risk go entirely to the club in this instance? The AFL has to step in to protect the security of the game. No contracts ratified until October 1. No players re-signed by clubs during the season. Players have the security of their contract. They don't need the security of their next one while they are yet to fulfil their last one.

No sources are ever to be taken as fact. Franklin going to Sydney last year was the perfect example of how smoke and mirrors could take anyone, anywhere. I'm also not for a second suggesting to take what information I hear as fact, but this thread is 'good mail' and that's what I'm offering up, stuff I've heard from people who are in a position to actually know. I have absolutely no idea where Frawley is going, but I've been told MFC have approached the AFL asking if he is offered x,y,z what is our likely compensation. Whether it's to plan to on-trade, or work out if Malceski or another free agent would water that down, I haven't the faintest clue, but we have made the approach. Jaksch is the mail I'm most confident on, and believe he can add to the side. He was a pick 12, hasn't played much so I see his value holding around there if not a 20ish pick. If we can package him up with another good GWS mid for first pick (or compo) which will be in area of 2,3 or 4 I can't see how Carlton can beat that. Two players I've also heard that Melbourne have spoken to manager's of are Darcy Byrne-Jones a young kid who just got drafted to Port this year (yet to play a game) and Tim Membrey from the Sydney Swans. Not that it's incredibly relevant to this particular post but we all heard rumours that Tom Rockliff was tempted by Roos to come back to Melbourne for bulk cash. From the mouth of his manager they are absolutely rubbish and Tom would never play for Melbourne as he was told he'd 'certainly' be drafted by us if he was available at our last pick in the National Draft. We overlooked him, and than again in the Pre-Season after that and he said Tom, a country lad, holds a real grudge for us reneging on our word.

Ok here we go. I have just returned from the Gold Coast where I saw Gary Ablett and his girlfriend shopping. I was wearing a Demons cap and he smiled at me. Therefore he must be a certainty to be coming to us next year.

It's ok Song. I think I've even gone down that path on occasion. And I couldn't put you on ignore and miss a daily dose of a topless Stephen Tingay. I must confess to a very embarrassing story today. Like you, I'm a teacher. I was showing a film today and was quietly happy with my developing technology skills being able to show the film on the projector yet still work on my laptop. Unfortunately, I pressed the wrong button at the wrong time and the film on the projector was replaced with my desktop. I had actually been doing some work but thought I'd just pop on to Demonland (like so many of us do during work!) so of course an image of Demonland replaced the film for all my class to see. I'll give Demonlanders one guess which poster's avatar was on display!

I'm interested to know what posters here are thinking when they make comments about Frawley like: "I think 600-700 is about what he is worth" and the like.... WTF would people here know about what Frawley is worth? Salary cap management is incredibly difficult and every club has a team of people working full time on all the permutations and combinations. The salary cap has to be paid to someone. It is increasing all the time. It is as much art as science with the possible scenarios and timing of players contracts. It annoys me that some posters make blanket statements about a players dollar value when mostly they have no freaking idea. Some are jealous because they would give their left knacker to don the guernsey (not you Sue!). Some earn $50k a year and think any football player on $100k should thank their lucky stars. Who cares? We want the best list possible. I don't give a flying about what we pay the players as long as they perform.. Those that announce "Frawley is only worth xxxx" should STFU.... Glad thats off my chest......

I know a guy on Facebook who knows the second cousin of a guy who knows the vet who looks after Frawley's dog, and apparently Frawley hasn't decided yet.

131 games premiership player Thanks for your contribution Shannon!

I can't work out whether the ambivalence towards Frawley is because people have forgotten how good he is in his natural role as a defender or as a result of some personal defence mechanism to avoid the disappointment of him leaving. Frawley is still one of the best defenders in the competition and by far the best defender in our team. He is in the prime of his career. I am not sold at all that we would be better off losing him for a first round pick (wherever that might end up). We are by no means guaranteed a player of his calibre and we certainly can't bank on landing Cameron or Patton or Shiel with the pick we get for him as some seem to have already done (although FWIW keeping Frawley also doesn't preclude us landing someone like Shiel in a Tyson style deal). We will never climb the ladder if our best players keep jumping ship as they hit free agency eligibility, we absolutely NEED some of these guys to stick around if we are going to improve.

So you thought you would add to it again, pathetic, couldn't you just put the second half, made you feel better did it? Shannon Byrnes went out and tried 100% every time he pulled on MFC jumper, that'll do me, hope he enjoys his retirement and looking at his two premiership medals, which is two more than anybody on Demonland will ever get

Those turning their nose up at $700k know this - the cap will be $10m in 2015 and at least $12m in the last year of the this mooted 5 year contract. The cap is increasing by $400k/$500k on average. Did you know that? The TV rights in 2016 will probably send that number higher. Worry about getting and keeping good players, not what they are paid - just missing the point.

I reckon he's worth it. Particularly to this club in the current circumstances.I'm sick to death of seeing required players leave the club. I want it to become a sought after destination. So, I hope this is true. And that we somehow also manage to land Malceski. And Shiel.

I beg your pardon sir, I have two from my halcyon days with the Euroa Under 13's.

i know nobody who knows frawley, his dog, his vet or his grandma but i've just got the vibe he's gone it's the mabo thing, the constitution and all that stuff you can take it as fact, as clear as the sky is blue

you're the only man I've ever loved

Don't understand the logic of not playing Hogan if he is ready and bye all accounts is desperate to play. Who knows what the future holds but your first AFL game is every kids dream , he's worked hard for 7 month's ,so reward the kid , play him, if only for the experience - The West Coast game seems like the perfect opportunity. Say he plays against WC and kicks a couple in front of his family and friends , we win - I go ape sh*t in the crowd with a couple of long suffering WA based Dees supporters , we take that in to the last round and nock of North full of confidence for 2015 - guaranteed an extra 5 thousand members .

Whilst you make a valid observation that posters are not privy to the intricacies of the MFC salary cap and its consequential list management strategies, you should also leave some room for some posters to be aware of the contracts offered to various players in the comp especially when they have been made public. Excluding product endorsements or player services arrangments (which are clearly confidential), the playing contract values of many high profile players is public knowledge. The financial arrangments for guys like Ablett, $cully, Tippett, and more recently Frankiln who have changed clubs is public knowledge and therefore sets a benchmark for the remuneration level of the competition's (so called) elite players. Ranking players value below these benchmarks, while arbitrary, is certainly possible. No one would pay $10 for a can of coke, probably you'd pay up to $4-$5. But if you were dying of thirst, the value naturally goes up. In the case of Frawley, we arguably know roughly where he sits in the general player rankings. He is in the 40-60 of the comp. Not elite, but in the top quintile and certainly one of lowly MFC's better players. That would set a "market value" salary of at least $550,000 p.a. Beyond that, his premium value, either to hold or to get, could range from $100k -$250k depending on how "thirsty" the interested clubs are. So he may well be worth $600 -$750k p.a. The then question each club must face, MFC especially, is if they pay this level what does that do to their salary cap over the period of his contract. After all his contract was front end loaded by MFC at the trime CC was expecting to make room for the "young guns" we had recruited 3 years back. Again, this is public knowledge as it was stated at various Foundation Heroes functions at the time. That front end contract now bites us in the bum because we may lose him to free agency and our crew of "young guns" have either left, underperformed or are injured. That's life. We tried to manage our list and salary cap, but fate intervened (i.e. Mitch Clark now gone). I like Chip and want him to stay. He is worth somewhere in between a defined range of $550k - $750k (not rocket science). Can we fit him in the cap, of course we can. Do we have the $$, maybe maybe not. If we do fit him in at top dollar, that means we have less to offer existing players as they mature/develop, and of course less in our pocket to entice new developed players to the club. We can't compete against the expansion clubs or Sydney who are afforded concessions and $$ from the AFL. We can't stop Geelong (for example) to pay over the odds as they think Chip will be a great asset to release Taylor up forward. Oh, and lastly but most importantly to this whole question is actually, what is Chip looking for? Money will be only one element, but clearly enjoying on field success will be just as important. If the Hawks made an offer of less $$ they may get Chip's nod for their potential to win a flag. It could be Adelaide or the Swans or Freo. Same deal - finals footy, classy colleagues etc etc may tip the scales. On the other hand, has Chip bought into the Roos reformation? He would undoubtedly love to be a one club player, but will that club ever play finals? His managers will naturally be looking to get top dollar for him and a long contract to secure their own best interests. Now ain't that conflicted remuneration at its best! I would hope that you could accept some resonance of intelligence and logic amongst posters to throw some numbers into the ring for argumentative purposes. It demeans your argument to bark out loud "STFU". You should be mindful that neither you nor I know exactly who the posters are on this site and what they know or don't know. I am certain you know the play on syllables about what can happen when you "ASSUME" too many things that you are not certain about. And I am glad I got that off my chest!

Oh, we have no problem with the opinion. It's the need to dance on graves that's hard to stomach. Just my opinion. Sorry if I've disappointed or...

Look I'm not going to carry on about it, but it's not about whether he reads it, it's about paying respect where it is due (and I acknowledge you did in your post - but the right doesn't correct the wrong). I don't think being on a discussion forum changes when a comment is appropriate or when it isn't - there has been and will be plenty of opportunities to put forth views on how he went at the MFC, I think the timing is wrong. Just my view. I'd prefer this wasn't turned in to a fight, please.

He does not have to do anything of the sort. You determine how much confidence you have in him. He does not have to do a damn thing to inspire you. It is by his actions you shall know him...or that sort of thing. Example a = GNF. If he said we'll have a flag by 2015, I'd be placing bets now. He has earnt that by being consistent and getting hard-to-predict things right from a long way out. That is how you know what to believe.

We will be using our first rounder and giving Lance Whitnall a 7 year $600,000 per year contract heavily front loaded. Apparently he's had Lars surgery on his knees and they are good to go and he's not really as fat as he looks. It's just the performance enhancing herbs he is taking which are making him retain water. I'm pretty sure he is taller than 192cm as well.... Source - Freak

I spoke to chips grandma and she told me Judd has signed on

Could have been BBO...

Richmond love taking in other club's rejects for good picks! They traded their second rounder for Shaun Hampson..! (While we got Bernie Vince How's about we trade Nicho for their first and second round picks?

HEAVEN FORBID AN INTERNET FORUM WITH MEMES AND GIFS! What is the world coming to?! The ignore feature is a very useful tool. You should try it and let this be your last vision of me:

my wife will be sending the dog off to rellies for the last round as a precaution

On the subject of father/sons (and I know this might be a little premature) but one of my grandsons played in his competition's lightning premiership on Sunday and I've been flicking through the programme and come up with an interesting name for the South Melbourne Under 9 Whites - Tiernan Stynes. There's a lot of water to flow under the bridge and it must be so hard for the little bloke without his dad but what a great story it would make if he ran onto the G one day in red and blue with the number 11 on his back.

I confirm everything that I have earlier said in this thread several months back. The prospect of 11 remains in play. PJ, PR and the club will say nothing and even go as far as playing games to keep people off the trail as the chance of success is stronger if the pressure on him remains low. I was recently told the move back to Perth was partly to ensure that he did not attract this attention and thus pressure. It was also to give him time away from everything to continue his recovery and to give him time to assess what he wanted. Clark has not given up the dream of playing senior football for Melbourne again. He has been training on a Misson derived program in Perth. He must first prove a minimum level of mental and physical fitness, he must then prove the desire to return is strong enough. His pending return to Melbourne is a very good sign and he will now start to slowly ramp up training, but don't get carried away, Clark still has a long way to go. Like Frawley that club just don't know whether he will or will not be on the list next year. If he plays again it will only be for the Dees.

Hi monoccular. The answer is this; Melbourne has severed its contract with Mitch Clark. We have no ability to re-sign him on an open market. The circumstances around his 'retirement' means he is not a delisted free agent, and he could not nominate his club of choice. This rule was brought about because of the way Mal Michael 'retired' from Brisbane, then signed with Essendon the following season which was around 6 or 7 years ago I think. However.. Mitch Clark can nominate for the pre-season draft (not the National Draft). Given his issues with mental illness, if he states his strong preference is to return to the MFC, it would be suicide by media for any other club to nominate him. In any case, the only clubs that may have a pick ahead of the Demons, are GWS, Brisbane and St Kilda. GWS probably wouldn't want to stifle the development of their overflowing list of young forwards, and Mumford is one of the best rucks in the comp. No way will Brisbane taking any 'go home' risks over the next few years, and considering Clark has already left them once.. I need not go on. St Kilda have Billy Longer rucking, and will probably have one of Wright or McCartin in their forward line with Reiwoldt. A weaker argument perhaps, but I revert to the risk, and media [censored] that would occur if the Saints pulled him away from where his preference lay. So, make no mistake - the MFC are staying very close to Mitch during his recovery, and the media are being very respectful during this period. I would currently give it a 50% chance that he will be back on Melbournes list in 2015, and if not, a 75% chance that he'll be back in the red and blue in 2016. Cheers, D16

Agreed. Weak as [censored]. My understanding is that he wanted to retire at the end of last year but was asked to play on. His injury was unfortunate. Good luck to him he made the most of his opportunities.

thank god we are back playing this weekend what a joke that bye was, totally unnecessary Time to finish the year with a bang and break the Etihad hoodoo

Retirement - Meh, pretty much an accelerated delisting Time at the club - double meh. If you want a nice retirement thread it should be started on a Geelong forum.

Theres going to be a whole lot of reality faced up to by a a whole lot of Essendon supporters in the not too distant future but currently they have a coping mechanism for their situation .....DON-IAL !!

There own internal report tells us how bad they have been and they accepted it. Things have now changed, because players are facing ASADA sanctions and all of a sudden no one has done anything wrong at all.

If you are worried about doing a knee and seeing your value drop then sign on with your current club!!! The players wanted free agency. Now they want contracts ahead of time. Come on. Also which clubs will do it? Wont most of them be smart enough to just wait until the end of the year. Or are the clubs paranoid enough to get in with early signings? IF you want to be a free agent then finish the contract and become a free agent. That's my advice.

And that's his fault is it? He was one of the most maligned players on our list who gave it a real crack everytime he took the field. It is hardly his fault that he was firstly recruited and secondly given games. I have nothing but respect for the guy and wish him well in whatever he does next.

Have heard that Shannon Byrnes might be retiring from AFL this year. Make of it what you will. (Source: MFC website)

This thread desperately needs some GNF..

Just read this in isolation. I'm not sure I'm more troubled with the idea of Peter Jackson at full back or James Frawley as CEO.

Absolutw nothing thread

Jacques is surely gone now. The Essendon board have today given him unanimous support ...

Not sure if you're aware mate, but recruiting decisions aren't based on a Demonland consensus.

I personally would happily pay it. In two years $700k will be cheap as chips. Salary cap could double or triple if players demand it be tied to game revenue as is expected. He's a miles better player than McDonald, and has more runs on the board as a KPP swing man than Dunn for instance.

good We can do much better than him

wouldn't you love to finish the year beating Nth and seriously disrupting September for them!

You are setting up the basis for a Premiership window here! My only change would be to add one of GWS's three Talls (to replace Clark)!

Don't care, as in, it's irrelevant. Doubling (at least) our number of wins, improving our percentage, and being "in" most games - including games against top sides - speaks more about where we're at and the progress we're making, than a number on a ladder. I was hoping for 6-8 wins, but with what happened to Clark, Hogan, Trengove, Dawes (missed quite a few games early on plus the pre-season), Garland and Jamar (ditto) plus Cross, that has turned out to be unrealistic. If half of that little list had managed a more or less full season with full health/fitness, I doubt very much that this thread would exist.

I actually do give a rats tossbag. He may have been a little disingenuous with how he got to our club in th first place but when he did pull on our jumper I thought he put his heart and soul into what he did. I also thought his handling ( and the clubs handling) of his problems and departure were first class. To top it all off - he just came across as a thoroughly likable bloke. On hearing Chris Dawes speak about him on Saturday morning ( there was prolonged discussion about depression and footballers on 774) it only re-affirmed my admiration for Mitch. So I give a rats tossbag and am interested in hearing how he is doing. Knowing a couple of people diagnosed with depression, if he can get himself well enough to play AFL ( if that is what he wants) and it happens to be for a WA team ( being much closer to his support network) then I for one will be very pleased ( as long as he doesn't play too well against us)