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I was at the game and I've only read the first 4 or 5 pages of this thread. My first observation is that we have progressed from a team that was regularly beaten by 100 points to a team that is now fairly competitive most of the time. We still get bashed up by the really good big bodied teams (Freo, Geel) but rarely at other times. We have learned to get ourselves to a position where we can win but not surprisingly for a team that won so few games in the last few years we don't yet know how to win. We are getting some real time training in that this year and will get better at winning games when the opportunity arises. Secondly I just can't stand the Grimes bashing. For those that weren't at the ground you may have missed the number of times he ran and supported team mates, spoilt and literally put his body on the line countless times. He is a player that will make skill errors but to want to blame him or even single him out for our failure is just silly. How about you look at Howe's kick out to a two on one contest when the majority of our players were on the other flank and the complete inability of Tapscott and Blease to show anything other than one or two cameo's for the day. We had some shocking non contributors but I've not read much about them, probably because they didn't get the ball often enough to make a mistake. A word of praise for Ro Bail. Unless you watch him you just can't believe how much running he does. The goal he kicked in the last when he started the forward thrust on the defensive side of the wing and ended up kicking the goal was an example of how he is able to bring numbers around the ball. He's limited as a player but his application and gut running courage is something to be admired. Jack Watts was sensational in the third and Hinkley may well have won the game when he took Kane Cornes from Jones and put him on Watts in the last. You'd have to think Watts should play that third quarter role for the rest of the season. No love for Jordie? Kept Boak to a mediocre contribution and the only goal Boak got was when Jordie wasn't on him. There is undoubtedly a place in the team for a good tagger. Lastly we looked spent in the last. When we had the ball from a mark there was often no movement. None, and so often we just kicked it to a stagnant situation. Roos game plan is very physically intensive and our young bodies are tiring. Very disappointing to lose, very encouraging for the future.

It's been said a lot already, but just wanted to give Jetta another shout-out. In two games this year against Jetta, Wingard's had 18 disposals and kicked 1.1. Fantastic effort, Nev.

Can someone please point me to an actual statement from Frawley ... direct from the horse's mouth ... that says 1. He wants $700-800,000 and 2. He wants 7 years? All I've seen on these figures is 'reported'. They come from the likes of journalists like Barrett, who we are prepared to dismiss one moment as comically inept, yet apparently accept in the next moment as telling the truth. Frawley is quite within his rights to take the free agency position that he wants to maximise his value, his future and his income. He may stay or he may go, but the vindictive utterings here, based solely on supporter impatience and feelings of 'required loyalty', are really becoming annoying and disrespectful.

I am reading these posts from Fiji, frustrated that there is no vision over here just the limited commentary on the AFL app (which essentially only addresses points and goals). As regards the upcoming Brisbane 'home' game at Etihad, do you think it is too late to ask the AFL to transfer it to Adelaide Oval for us? It certainly is a more productive home game venue for us than ES!

He's doing a job at the moment. If he keeps doing that, he'll keep getting games. He kept Boak under 20 possessions today. He had 39 last week.

A painful loss - really gutting. To lead with 3 minutes left and lose is always going to hurt, especially when it was going to be such a memorable, courageous win. I can't really fault any particular moments because the effort was sensational. Five goals down against a SA team in Adelaide just so often results in 10+ goal losses for the Dees, so to fight back and kick six goals in a row and take the lead and nearly win the game is a fantastic effort from the players. It was probably the best we've played on the outside since the last time we played Port. We moved the ball well, got some valuable uncontested ball and linked up much better than we have in the last six or seven weeks. Geelong and Fremantle in particular really smashed us on the outside and facing a quick hard-running team in Port I was concerned this would happen again. But we beat them in uncontested footy and although they ran the ball better than us I thought our ball movement and offensive spread at least matched them. We just lack that class and run/pace to capitalise on our momentum - we waste opportunities to put scoreboard pressure on the opposition and instead of piling on 5-6 goals we manage only 2-3 and it keeps the opposition in the game. This also hurts us late in game when it's close - just that lack of class and composure to make the correct decisions and see the game out. It's a little like a lower team in soccer being 1-0 up against top opposition - so many times the top team finds that late equaliser because the lower team just lacks the class and composure to see it out. For me Tyson is already a key for us - when he is up and about and winning clearances we are a far better team. I don't think it's a coincidence that his drop in form since Round 12 has seen a corresponding drop in performance from the team and that his best game since then led to our best team performance. I won't go into the umpiring as it has all been said in this thread - but the one that disgusted me the most was the free to Westhoff against Viney. Jack did so well to spoil a guy double his size, and then when Westhoff went to ground and Viney tripped over him he actually cushioned his landing to prevent him from falling on Westhoff's back and did it quite successfully in my opinion. Yet the umpire pays a push in the back. Let's just say my TV is thankful that Westhoff missed. At the end of the day there's no doubt it is absolutely gut-wrenching to lose another close one and gee it would've felt incredible to get the win. But the players really dug deep and put in a great performance on enemy territory and you can only be proud of their efforts.

When the team is playing well, Jack can get the ball from them. When Jack has the ball, good things happen.

and the one goal was kicked by the umpire

Yze had his faults, but I would kill for Watts to be half the player Yze was at his prime.

His performance yesterday showed a deficiency in our current forward structure (with Hogan missing) - a contested marking tall with pace and mobility. Dawes and Pederson are extremely hard workers and lead hard at the footy but they lack the pace to get off their men to take lead up marks in space. Watts has the pace and mobility but hasn't been a contested marking threat. Frawley was pretty important for our structure yesterday in that he used his pace and marking strength to provide that link coming out of defence. The problem is, while he is very good at getting the ball, his use of the footy is poor. Unreliable set shot for goal and lacks that ability to swing round after taking a mark and hit up a leading player inside 50. He could have had an extra two goals yeterday and one or two additional assists but for poor ball use.

Baghdad Bob is right though. There's a huge discord here on Demonland between this year's reality and this year's expectations. In reality we are a 4-6 win team that sits 16th @ 73%. What matters to me is not the umpires, or Grimes, or Dawes, or Bail, or Jones, or a thousand other errors that Demonlanders can pick on and slash their wrists over every week throughout the season. What matters to me is where we have come from and where we are going. I can only see positives this year, and personally I get sick and tired of the carping at specific players, and the disillusionment generally, over what has been a much more competitive outcome. I didn't expect any transition under Roos to be quick, but for the building blocks to start to come into place in his first year. BTW, get 22 Daniel Crosses and you'd have a team like North Melbourne ... a bottom-of-the-8 team with a great, honest work ethic, but no one star who can break a game apart when it's really needed.

It's just not practical. If Damian Barrett started apologising each time he was shown up as a clueless self-important git, he wouldn't have any time left to write his steady stream of new, completely off-the-mark, articles. His career would be over! Ahhhhh, yes please.

I watched some and listened to some, so I'm not going to give votes. However, it is fantastic to see the accolades for Jetta. This fellow was virtually written off and now he is a highly valued key defender.

Me and Roosy are Grimes apologists.

Not much that hadn't been covered already. Most notable was: - re the Wingard free, did not dispute that it was a free, but questioned whether one should have been awarded to Pedersen for a similar incident. The manner in which he said it indicated to me that he shared the frustration over the imbalance in the umpiring. - broke down the three key mistakes towards the end of the game. Jones quickly playing on he attributed to Jones not hearing the whistle so [censored] happens basically. Dawes bomb to no-one he said was clearly the wrong choice, but Dawes knew that as soon as he came off the ground. Grimes OOTF he said was the "most forgiveable" given the situation and the fact that Grimes has no option but to play on quickly and therefore attempt the risky kick under pressure. - said he had not heard about the Malceski rumour until coming on the show and that he had not approached him. Did however confirm that a player like Malceski is needed, i.e. a running half back with clean distribution. Conceded that as good as our defensive group is, we lack a player of that ilk.

He seems to get asked exactly the same questions all of the time were you happy with how you went on the weekend? how goods dom Tyson? how bads jack watts? is james frawley staying? are you staying for the third year? rumours on Jeremy Cameron? next guest.

no one PMs me love OR hate...

It's an improvement on last year. Then we got 15 goals down and apparently only started playing football on the following Monday when we kept being told we were training really well.

He tackles to hurt. Been a while since we've seen a tackler like that in our side. Wrecker?

If Chip leaves then two Tyson deals would do me!

How can you not get excited about a player who got 13 possessions in a quarter? It's all about perspective.

I thought we'd lose by 10 goals today: Port overdue for a win, our midfield depth/options severely lacking, Adelaide Oval, The Dom Cassisi factor, our form in recent weeks etc. BUT - we genuinely deserved to win that game. Some of the umpiring decisions were bordering on criminal. At key moments in the game too. I was genuinely surprised with, and proud of, the Dees today. Very unlucky. They deserved it. That said, I've no doubt some absolute numbskull here will suggest otherwise.

The club should lodge a formal complaint about the umpires that seemed genuinely scared to upset the crowd and made some unforgivable errors that cost a side the game.

(Disclaimer: no offence is intended by the below. Just a bit of tongue in cheek to round off the week) Q: What colour is the sky? old dee: The sky is still blue after all this time will it ever change? i'll believe it when I see it rpfc: The sky might be blue right now, but it is naive to expect this is going to change overnight. We must accept that while others have a starry night sky, or a red dusk, or a pink dawn, our sky is blue, and it will remain blue until some significant changes to the way in which the air scatters the sunlight are made. These changes will take time. Ron Burgundy: The sky is the best thing that has happened to us in a long time. I have total faith in it. I love the sky. Satyriconhome: actually chap, I know where the sky is at and so does God. In fact when my lovely lady and I were talking to God the other day we spoke about the sky. I just like to entertain myself on here with all you keyboard heroes who think you know the sky better than God and I. WYL: it's still blue and it's still falling. When are we going to see change? How much longer are we going to put up with this incompetent sky? Webber: I thought I'd correct some of the statements being made in here regarding the sky's colour which are just plain incorrect. Except for light that comes directly from the sun, most of the light in the day sky is caused by scattering, which is dominated by a small-particle limit called Rayleigh Scattering. The scattering due to molecule sized particles (as in air) is greater in the forward and backward directions than it is in the lateral direction. Scattering is significant for light at all visible wavelengths, but it is stronger at the shorter (bluer) end of the visible spectrum; meaning that that the scattered light is more blue than its source, the sun. The sky can turn a multitude of colors such as red, orange, purple and yellow (especially near sunset or sunrise) when the light must pass through a much longer path (or optical depth) through the atmosphere. Scattering effects also partially polarize light from the sky, most pronounced at an angle 90° from the sun. Scattered light from the horizon travels through as much as 38 times the atmosphere as light from the zenith, causing it to lose blue components, causing a blue gradient: vivid at the zenith, and pale near the horizon. Because red light also scatters if there is enough air in between the source and the observer, these longer wavelengths of light will also scatter significantly, making parts of the sky change color during sunset. ENYAW: why does the sky do what it did? It just hangs there? I watch and think the sky, is not what it was 10 years ago. get the clouds to move to a different part of the sky ? dee-luded: the sky, forever changing, never constant. maybe someone else wants to offer up a bigger sacrifice to the sky?? just a thought Bitter but optimistic: bugger the sky I say! Who needs the sky when there is alcohol and women to consume! hogans heroes: The sky is pathetic. The clouds are hopeless and the sun is a loser. I hope the sky burns in hell for what it has done (three weeks later) The sky is absolutely beautiful. Redleg: The sky is still blue after all these years and it's about time we stood up to God and told him to change it. picket fence: The sky is blue but the clouds aren't puffy enough! Plus we need more rainbows! I propose we switch some clouds for rainbows! Just my view! rjay: That is an interesting question that you pose 'P-Man'. I think it is blue but I also think it can be a variety of other colours that we don't get to see as often. Machsy: Are you serious? How can you not know that? That is just about the stupidest question I've ever been asked. The sky? Seriously?? Jumbo returns: The sky is still blue and I am very skeptical of this God fella. I will wait to see what he does to change the colour of the sky before I sing his praises. Jaded: I stood underneath the sky yesterday while it rained. I stood there, wondering why I bother watching it while it pours down. But I'll be there again next week. Standing underneath it. Hoping it won't rain. Ben Hur: I could explain it to you but you wouldn't understand.

The final tally is lower than I was expecting, but it was more in reference to technique and commitment which to my eyes was a step up. Maybe I just love Pigdog,

Id be happy to swap Grimes for Strauss for the last few weeks.

Thats not what the free was paid for. It was paid for front on contact. As it occurred after he hot the ball its play on. Apalling decision. Either the ump didn't see it and guessed. or he applied the rule incorrectly.

Blease???? Why cant this bloke get a game. His pace and attack are what we desperately need. He obvioulsy hasa flaw in his game that every coach has highlighted but he does add a fair bit whe he comes in. I cant wait to see the effect of another preseason into JKH. This bloke may be the answer to our small forward problem we have had for years. The new Whiz??? I thought Kent was also quite handy. Kent, Blease and JKH in the side make us look sharp and dangerous. Love Pig Dog. A preseason into this bloke and I would not want to be an opposition player taking posassion anywhere near him. All in all I thought we do okay playing away against a good side down on form. Umpiring ($#&^# %#^%#$ *%^%# $#&!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). We were unlucky not to win with a couple of posters and some dodgy free kicks paid that cost us easy goals. I though Viney was stiff on Schultz. Can anyone enlighten me on the holding the ball rule? The one where a player takes posession without prior oppportunity and gets smothered on the deck. My wife, father in law and myself have no idea why one is paid and others are not. When ever this situation occurs we all wait and the longer it goes before a whistle is heard the more we suspect a free will be paid. But we have absolutely no idea how most of the ones paid are different from the others. We are not idiots and have watched the game for many years and have a reasonable grab of the rules but we all sit there and shake our heads and cant work it out. I dont blame the Umpires but I think the rules need to be addressed so that fans like us can work out what is a free and what is not. There is not point marketng the game in NSW, Qld and NZ is the rules are so grey that even footy tragics like my family cant work it out.

As I'm sure you know, the MFC are a 'special case' and I'd argue that out of all clubs, ours would still measure close to last when it comes to leadership across the board. I'm talking about players who can drive standards like Daniel Cross. Jones is the only player I can think of who has come through unaffected by our deplorable past 8 years or so. Nobody else on our list has demands as much of themselves and of others. Which is what leaders must do. So with that in mind we've drafted Cross and Vince. Dawes as well. Malceski would be a great get providing he stays fit for the rest of the year.. Obviously he's a great player and has a beautiful kick which would help our backline emensely as we have next to nobody with great skills playing back there. But more importantly, he's one of Sydney's leaders and experienced players and having him for any young player at our club would be hugely positive and inspiring. We don't have these players and we need them. Not all of them. Obviously ones that are still performing and who are injury free etc. For the posters talking about his knee injuries, do you have any idea how long ago he did his knee? Years. We'll be getting 1 or 2 more players like this for next year. I have no doubt about it.

Geelong beat us just by being in the right spots - by running into the right spots. We got killed because we had no idea where/how to run and could not organise clean disposal. It was not because of an inability to win our own footy.

Watts showed you yesterday how you can influence the game without being the hardest player out there. And how productive and damaging he can be when others get him the ball. The thing you don't understand is that in a team, there are going to be players more comfortable than others with their face in the dirt, and there are players more comfortable puking after running 100m after 100m to get into space for a switch or to link up play. They are not 'un productive' - the best teams hae them and they usually tear us to shreds - that's where the real damage occurs. Try to understand, I feel like this is Footy 101...

COMPOSURE by The Oracle It was the second time this year that Melbourne held the lead half way through the final quarter against Port Adelaide and yet it lost the game. Earlier in the year, it was a case of a young club simply running out of legs against fitter opposition but this time, it was a case of running out of composure when the time came to hold strong when a game was in the balance. The other comparison with their earlier encounter at Alice Springs was the fact that the Demons leaked goals in conceding an early run on and then had to work hard to rein in the Power. It was hard enough doing that in Alice Springs but it was even more difficult at the "Portress". Melbourne surprised its fans with the opening goal through Luke Tapscott but the Power answered and the game was evenly balanced until Dom Tyson broke through for his team's second goal and a six point lead. The next half hour's play was the low point for Melbourne with the home side kicking three consecutive majors on both sides of the first break to go to a 30-point lead. Twenty minutes into the second quarter, Port had all the momentum, leading 7.4.46 to 2.4.16 and all thoughts of Melbourne fans were about where was the next goal going to come from and how could the damage best be controlled. Somehow, the Demons found the inspiration to take the game on and returned the favour to their hosts by kicking three goals on either side of the break. In the early part of the third quarter the goals came through speedsters Sam Blease and Jay Kennedy-Harris while Jack Watts, who had been quiet early but dominant in this term, goaled at the 16-minute mark to give his side the lead. The question that Melbourne fans were asking now was why had it taken so long for the team to start using some run and to take a game on in the way it was doing now? It didn't last long as the game turned into an arm wrestle for the remainder of the term and it was almost inevitable that the Power would regain the ascendancy, which it did right on three quarter time with the aid of a fortunate free kick paid against Watts for interference - ironically because he had been crunched once or twice earlier in the game without gaining the benefit of a free. The Demons refused to allow the game to slip and goals to Rohan Bail and Tyson's second restored the lead until a late forward thrust by Melbourne was cut off and Port Adelaide moved the ball virtually the length of the ground to where Port's Jay Schulz was paid a mark against a protesting Lynden Dunn to score the winning goal with less than two minutes remaining on the clock. The Demons last roll of the dice came to nothing when a clearing kick from Jack Grimes to Tyson who was in the clear and had support, went out of bounds on the full. Thirty seconds later, the game was over. Dom Tyson with 32 touches was Melbourne's best and he was well backed up by skipper Nathan Jones who was subjected to some close treatment early in the game. It was a much better performance for the Demons but, having twice had chances against a top four club in Port Adelaide it still needs to learn how to beat the top sides. Melbourne 2.3.15 5.5.35 8.7.55 10.9.69 Port Adelaide 4.4.28 7.6.48 8.9.57 10.12.72 Goals Melbourne Tyson 2 Bail Blease Frawley Kennedy-Harris Pedersen Tapscott Vince Pedersen Watts Port Adelaide Schulz Stewart Westhoff 2 Boak Pittard Wingard Young Best Melbourne Tyson Jamar N Jones Garland Watts Frawley Port Adelaide Westhoff Gray Wines Cornes O'Shea Schulz Ebert Changes Melbourne Nil Port Adelaide Nil Injuries Melbourne Tapscott (knee) Port Adelaide Hartlett (ankle) Reports Melbourne Nil Port Adelaide Nil Umpires Jeff Dalgleish, Dean Margetts, David Harris Crowd 37,894 at Adelaide Oval.

Haven't seen the game yet but to take Port to under a goal at their home when they were desperate to win to get into the top four, was a great effort. We are definitely improving and this off season in adding personnel and learning will be vital to our future. We are on the right track.

How about that tackle on Wines, just dumped him like a bag of.....

How long has Watts been in the system?? 6 yrs? The sooner ppl realise he ain't Carey the better you will all feel. watts is not Ablett or Judd or J Brown - he is a tall quick skillfull player but no world beater (see Clinton Young) Watts is weak as pi$$ but he uses the ball really well and set up a lot of our opportunities today... u need to take the good with the bad with Watts. He won't be a world beater but when he has the ball he generally uses it very well

do not believe a word of that.

That isn't the rule, it is just commonly a free kick because it's very risky. If you spoil the ball (ie, clean contact), rather than hit the player, it isn't a free kick. The rule is that if you are not looking at the ball and make contact with the player (and not the ball) then it is a free kick. As it was, the umpire paid the free kick for high contact, not for having his back to the ball.

I dont see why we are blaming Dawes, Jones, Grimes, Howe or any individual players as a team they all pretty much made mistakes at times that could have won the game for us. Our disposal efficiency was woeful for quite a few players, still we were playing in adelaide, in front of a very one sided crowd which does unfortunately have an adverse effect on the impartiality of the umpiring. All in all I was pretty happy with the teams performance, it was not pretty football but they played as a team and applied pressure most of the day and did not rollover. These final matches are not so much about winning but about keeping the lessons going and identifying which players will be leaving us at the end of the season. Which will probably mean that we may give games to players who would not necessarily be in our top 22 so that Roos and co can see if they have a future with the MFC or not,

The loss of Clarke and Hogan forced Watts to play as a forward, otherwise I think Roos may have continued with him on a wing/mid. This has also forced Dawes to play a role he probably isn't up to, the key target instead of the second or third forward. The fact neither played a game has altered the make up of the side greatly. We need to keep this in mind when assessing exactly where we are come seasons end.

Dawes is a hard working forward who is good one on one. He isn't the pea, but he's a lion hearted player who will push up to the ball time after time to provide a target when there isn't anything else on. As a result, most of Dawes' good work goes unnoticed, because making a contest doesn't get a stat or glory. Once you put Hogan in there, Dawes will start to get more one on one opportunities.

Or .... when the team is playing well ... it drags Jack along.

Deeluded, sheil is contracted and cats, pies and hawks won't be ble to match pick 3 or 4 or the money we could offer

McKenzie and Riley both hit the post from 30 out small angle and 20 out 50degrees in the first term. Frawley from outside 50 but straight got nowhere near it and from 40 out 45 degrees put it out on the full. Kent missed a snap from 10 out bit of angle after a poor kick in to the forward line that should've found a loose man but instead found contests. The umps were read hot on us for a couple of holding the balls when not making an attempt despite the ball never coming out or for diving on the footy when we probably didn't. But for both teams they mainly let incorrect disposals and prior opportunity stretch forever. After that is was just the inside 50 shots for goal. Viney defended Westhoff fairly and was paid a free 20m out directly in front. Westhoff missed but Howe turned over the kick out. Without the free we were clearing the ball and there was space everywhere. The other one was the Wingard free right on the siren. Poor defense from a stoppage with 12 seconds or so to go hacked kick forward, Watts comes across with the flight of the ball in front of Wingard and spoils the ball clearly but contacts Wingard on the follow through of his spoil. Not body contact just punching arm in to Wingard's head. I don't know the rule, but I would've thought if you've spoiled the ball then you should get some leniency with your follow through. Much like in soccer if a defender wins the ball then any contact coming the other way isn't a foul.

And Neville Jetta. He has turned himself into a required player. Top work. Matthew Whelan Mk 2.

I wanted to kill someone when he risked serious pain running the wrong way to make that spoil at the end of the third, and his reward was a shithouse free against and Port goal. There is just no bloody justice in this sport sometimes.

Whilst I'm probably a [censored] eyed optimist, I leave this game believing we can push for the eight next year. Flock the lot lot of you if you dare suggest otherwise. Go you 'sort of' good things.

FCS STFU

You just made me laugh out loud. I love the fact that the above quote is all you need. Brilliant.

As I said then, I will say again now, you don't meet the leadership group unless you are very interested in the position imo