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(Disclaimer: no offence is intended by the below. Just a bit of tongue in cheek to round off the week) Q: What colour is the sky? old dee: The sky is still blue after all this time will it ever change? i'll believe it when I see it rpfc: The sky might be blue right now, but it is naive to expect this is going to change overnight. We must accept that while others have a starry night sky, or a red dusk, or a pink dawn, our sky is blue, and it will remain blue until some significant changes to the way in which the air scatters the sunlight are made. These changes will take time. Ron Burgundy: The sky is the best thing that has happened to us in a long time. I have total faith in it. I love the sky. Satyriconhome: actually chap, I know where the sky is at and so does God. In fact when my lovely lady and I were talking to God the other day we spoke about the sky. I just like to entertain myself on here with all you keyboard heroes who think you know the sky better than God and I. WYL: it's still blue and it's still falling. When are we going to see change? How much longer are we going to put up with this incompetent sky? Webber: I thought I'd correct some of the statements being made in here regarding the sky's colour which are just plain incorrect. Except for light that comes directly from the sun, most of the light in the day sky is caused by scattering, which is dominated by a small-particle limit called Rayleigh Scattering. The scattering due to molecule sized particles (as in air) is greater in the forward and backward directions than it is in the lateral direction. Scattering is significant for light at all visible wavelengths, but it is stronger at the shorter (bluer) end of the visible spectrum; meaning that that the scattered light is more blue than its source, the sun. The sky can turn a multitude of colors such as red, orange, purple and yellow (especially near sunset or sunrise) when the light must pass through a much longer path (or optical depth) through the atmosphere. Scattering effects also partially polarize light from the sky, most pronounced at an angle 90° from the sun. Scattered light from the horizon travels through as much as 38 times the atmosphere as light from the zenith, causing it to lose blue components, causing a blue gradient: vivid at the zenith, and pale near the horizon. Because red light also scatters if there is enough air in between the source and the observer, these longer wavelengths of light will also scatter significantly, making parts of the sky change color during sunset. ENYAW: why does the sky do what it did? It just hangs there? I watch and think the sky, is not what it was 10 years ago. get the clouds to move to a different part of the sky ? dee-luded: the sky, forever changing, never constant. maybe someone else wants to offer up a bigger sacrifice to the sky?? just a thought Bitter but optimistic: bugger the sky I say! Who needs the sky when there is alcohol and women to consume! hogans heroes: The sky is pathetic. The clouds are hopeless and the sun is a loser. I hope the sky burns in hell for what it has done (three weeks later) The sky is absolutely beautiful. Redleg: The sky is still blue after all these years and it's about time we stood up to God and told him to change it. picket fence: The sky is blue but the clouds aren't puffy enough! Plus we need more rainbows! I propose we switch some clouds for rainbows! Just my view! rjay: That is an interesting question that you pose 'P-Man'. I think it is blue but I also think it can be a variety of other colours that we don't get to see as often. Machsy: Are you serious? How can you not know that? That is just about the stupidest question I've ever been asked. The sky? Seriously?? Jumbo returns: The sky is still blue and I am very skeptical of this God fella. I will wait to see what he does to change the colour of the sky before I sing his praises. Jaded: I stood underneath the sky yesterday while it rained. I stood there, wondering why I bother watching it while it pours down. But I'll be there again next week. Standing underneath it. Hoping it won't rain. Ben Hur: I could explain it to you but you wouldn't understand.

great post - but I note with interest that you are only an annual member not a life member. I question your loyalty that you have only signed up for one year. Before I realised that you had only signed for one year I thought your posts were valuable and insightful but now I believe they have little merit and will be no great loss if you decide not to sign up again. I have heard a rumour that you are hanging out hoping to be picked up by a more successful fan forum like "The Punt Road End". The good news is that if P-Man does go we can get a very high compensation poster pick and cherry pick posters from Saintsational fan forum. (good job P-man)

Fixed.

Careful. He may decide your contribution is a gif of some moving clouds.

You forgot Joeboy: Blue, just blue

Does anyone believe there is any doubt that Roos will take the 3rd year option. There is so little likelihood that he would suggest an apprenticeship of 1 year only.

I love that you've captured the writing style as well as the content style. Brilliant. Poor Webber - it must be hard having an IQ of 190 amongst us mere humans! I love it when he turns up and embarrasses all the clueless wailers with his knowledge. h_h was by far the best one, though. I even read it in the same comical voice in my head that comes to mind when I read the real h_h's posts. I first read this at lunch time and am still giggling at "the sun is a loser".

rubbish, rubbish, rubbish. You can debate his worth to the club, what should be paid to keep him at the club. You can debate if if he is in our top 5 players or top 10. We can all probably agree that he, like many others, turns it over too much. But to suggest he offers "nothing" is just blatant nonsense. I can respect opinions that he will can be covered if he goes and he may not leave a huge hole. Whilst I don't necessarily agree I can also respect the opinion that if we got a top 5 pick for him as compensation that we may well come out ahead. I won't respect an opinion that is clearly coloured by his unwillingness to sign on in a timely fashion that suits supporters.

If we can get Cameron for one early pick, do it. But I imagine this could be about shaking the KPP tree and seeing which midfield-shaped apples fall down...

Frosty Demon Deletions: Trengove, Grimes, Watts, Frawley, Garland, Jamar, and ??? Do you think taking the last 5 players in the draft at 110, 111, 112, 113, and 114 will make our list better and give us REAL FOOTBALLERS? Or do you think it's just more hot air and empty hate?

I also don't understand the hate. He was drafted to a basket case and gave us his loyalty until he had to decide, courtesy of the rules whether to leave for more money and success. We don't know if he is gone but if it is true as to his demands, then there is no deal yet. I suspect there will be one soon and he will leave. What does he owe us, nothing. He is a professional sportsman who probably has no other career mapped out and he is entitled to get the best result for his family during what is left of his footy career. If we fail to win another game we will get pick 3 for him. The whole footy world agrees that is over the odds. What is the issue then? We could get a potential star for a bloke that has clear deficiencies in parts of his game. I would be happy with a 200 game mid as compo. We need that more than him IMO.

i' I think the thing people underestimate as well is that he has played under two different premiership coaches and in multiple flags and is a premiership captain, he would know quite a lot about coaching already from those experiences, so I don't see it as starting from no idea, he is starting from a very good foundation of quality experience and footy knowledge, he would understand the importance of communication and culture Roosy will just teach him a bit more about people management and in box coaching, but i'm sure he would have a good and experienced assistant coaching team around him as well to almost blanket any concerns about inexperience.

And what roles would these players play in the current side? Petracca is a very good player. He would have gone close to top 10 last year as a forward and he's certainly in the mix no doubt, and Brayshaw is good too. I'mm not knocking the players. But I will attack the concept. The club should fold if we aren't going to draft the best talent because it doesn't believe it can develop talent or bodies. The club's recruiting would also be a disgrace if it is drafting the oldest and highest Body Mass Index midfielders in the draft pool just cause they are ready to go. One needs to remember that the players you mentioned have advantages over their peers that disappear to a fair degree once they enter the AFL system. The only way for this club forward is to assemble a critical mass of quality talent of all shapes and sizes. As such it should draft the players they think will be best over the span of their careers, none of this ready to go nonsense. The Western Bulldogs have set themselves up for years by drafting two midfield rakes and there is no evidence to suggest they are any better at developing than we are. The only desperate need we have to fill in this draft is a developing key position player at some stage in the draft or trading process. Other than that get the best talent at each decision!

Cop out.

The opening and closing ceremonies I can understand, pretty spectacular. But the athletes parade? Can't imagine watching that too many times over... "And here come Angola, don't they look smashing..."

I would have thought as a prospective assistant coach you would be very interested in learning your craft under someone who has a similar style to what you feel you would have, I see Cameron Ling as a really good footy mind and a really good communicator, a lot more of a paul roos style coach than say a brad scott, chris scott or Mick Malthouse type, which is why I think he will end up at the MFC whether that be as an Assistant coach or a successor, personally I think Kirk is still the obvious candidate for successor.

Excellent. But I can't believe 2 things so far: I can't believe no one has taken umbrage and occupied a couple of pages of useless back and forth argy bargy. Well done so far DLanders. I can't believe that if the colour of the sky is wrong, it's not somehow Jack Watts' fault. (And there's a little bit of self deprecation in that!) Edit: spelling.

Diplomacy at work. "Thanks Mick, I'm flattered, but no thanks."

Obviously wasn't the first picked this week

I thought you were a full cream man, jazza ...

thanks man, spoke to Hogan at training the other week. Said he really appreciated my posts, then gave me a wink. I took the wink as it being he loved the club as much as my posts and he would sign. Sure enough he did. All hail me

I don't require admiration, and appreciation for my work and posts round here, unlike some people. Not looking at anyone;

The only part of the excellent post I would take umbrage with, is that God talks to me

Its not about how many people live in the country it is about how many people play aussie rules. The numbers of boys playing Aussie rules is dropping in direct correlation to the increasing participation rates in other sports. Remember the discussion is about elite level talent. To develop elite athletes you need a pyramid. The ones at the top rise up and come from all the other levels. Its all about numbers. Of course you can pump heaps of money into a small number of players and hop one makes it but without a large ongoing pool it is a one off. The point about professional sporting comps is a very good one. In 1992 (the year c&b chose to illustrate his point) AFL had probably only been a fully professional sport for 5 years and since then the demands have exponentially grown (ie commitment, athletic requirements, levels of fitness etc etc) and the game has become much more about aerobic capacity. In short AFL now demands elite athletes not just very good footy players who could play their position really well. In 1992 teams could and did carry players who would not get a game today. Does anyone think Allen Jackovich would get a a game these days, even with his brilliance? Here is the MFC list from 1992. Many of those players would not get a game today, even with the advanced training (or perhaps because of the huge increase in training demands) as they either would not have the required athleticism or the 24/7 commitment and dedication demanded in modern footy In 1992 there was no local fully professional union or soccer comps, the NBL was faltering and there was not nearly the same amount of money in cricket. In the southern states AFL had the first call on most of the elite players. This is simply not the case now.

Generally saying someone would make a good politician isn't a compliment, but with Roosy, he genuinely would. His answers are very careful whilst still managing to sound genuine, even after the fourth time he's said it.

I haven't seen anyone on this thread post that apparently Ling commented on Channel 7 last night that he had met with Melbourne, including Roos. I heard a grab on radio this morning of Ling himself saying this. I assume it was on "Talking Footy". If we cast our minds back to other circumstances, Roos, Hird and others have followed a similar pattern of organised information disclosure, that is (1) denial, followed by (2) a comment about how it might be interesting to pursue, (3) followed by I'm seriously interested, (4) followed by I'm considering and talking with my family, (5) followed by an announcement. I think we're at Stage 2.

I'd suggest that the current argument explains exactly why the talent is diluted. Not only are the 18 professional AFL teams there are also professional soccer teams, and more professional rugby league and union teams. The talent is spread across all sports and there are more professional teams competing for that talent now than before.

There's only one soccer player who's ever made it in footy, and that was former Manchester United superstar Brad Green.

Why? Not a fan of Nat Fyfe? Stephen Hill? Stephen Motlop? Jack McCrae? Tom Lonergan? Marcus Bontempelli? Dustin Fletcher? etc.etc.

Skills and toughness. Forget the names. No skinny kids. We cannot develop them in the gym. 1st round Petracca is ready to go. Brayshaw is ready to go. 2nd round Blakeley is ready to go. Billy Evans is ready to go. 3rd round Billy Stretch is hopefully delayed to our 3rd round pick. If we have picks at 50 plus, look for SANFL, WAFL, VFL bargains... like Brett Eddy /Sth Adel, Ayden Kennedy / Box Hill, Leigh Kitchen / Frankston or

What's the bet Purps read this and claimed it as his scoop?

nice to see this thread has reverted to its prior high standard of perversity for a while i thought all was lost viva la revival

I posted that on this thread a week ago! Get up to speed Barrett!!!!

The inroads soccer is making is part of the reason the AFL created GWS and the Gold Coast.

Getting 45,000 to a domestic soccer fixture would've been laughed at 20 years ago. You'd have to have serious blinkers on to not be aware of the inroads soccer has made and continues to make.

Bail I think is a bit lucky.

Not sure I agree with point 11. This will reward the better teams in the bottom half of the ladder especially those with the better draw. The reason teams are at the bottom with a low percentage is they are no good. Its not very likely regardless of the carrot of an earlier pick they will be able to improve their percentage. Over the years this would just make it harder for rubbish team to get off the bottom because they will be less likely to get first pick in the draft. I think the tanking debate as been a nothing debate from day one. The detrimental effect of tanking (what ever that is) far outweighs the benfit of an earlier pick. We picked Toumpas well before Wines and lost on that deal. Yes its better to have pick one but it is not guarantee of success. A team that plays without desire and hope will destroy a playing list and and we are a case in point. Teams wil play out the year regardless because without that burning desire to success ingrained at every level in the club draft picks will be doomed. There is not a chance in hell Roos will do anything other than fight to final siren of the season and would expect nothing less from his players coaches and administrators.

If I hadn't played finals for 8 years straight and had over a dozen coaches I would be out aswell. Dont understand the hate. The guy is doing what alot of us would do.

A couple of Swannies would Membrey & Briggs would do me just fine...

And this is part of what makes AFL so different to codes such as the English Premier League and the US sports codes, where it's all about the individual. This is a strength that should be preserved, as far as possible. The club loyalty thing is becoming increasingly rare in professional sport, indeed society generally, and it's one of the great things about the game. It's endearing. It's human. It's intangible - the opposite of materialistic really. It's possibly selfless. When I worked in London, people asked me what I most liked about Australia. I responded it's simple really: it's the club loyalty piece in AFL. Arguably, it is best illustrated in Craig Bradley's retirement speech. So much so, I carried a copy of it in my wallet. At all times. Frawley, and every sleazy player manager in the comp, should read that too.

Sometimes there are no words ...

Which is a fantastic effort but geez he turns it over in the most frustrating of ways.

I must have missed the recent landslide of popularity that basketball is getting. They getting 290,000 a week to games are they?

My point was that none of us know what it takes to be an AFL coach, we are all guessing at what it takes. Yes many have coached at junior levels but that does not compare to the highest level. Just because you have done an apprenticeship under a great coach does not mean you will be a great head coach. I am sure of one thing, none of us truly know what goes on behind closed door of an AFL club so stop pretending you do. And the spelling mistake in my name, really? How very grown up of you Ethan, bet you were so proud of it.

Watch how many options Watts offers - have a look at how many leads Dawes makes.....the passes either go on their head, over their head, or miss them altogether!

Well there you go DD36 - you just got the approval of h_h... That's got to bring on some reflection.

The difference between ling and most great players is he wasn't blessed with great skills from the start. He had to work very hard to improve himself and got the absolute most out of himself. I'd like to think as a coach he might be able to do the same with others.

The rumour I have heard, is that it's Kirk, Fremantle have been informed that he's right in the mix and it's probably a good idea to plan accordingly that's coming out of Albury where Kirk comes from. The other part of the rumour, truth or not is that Roosy will sign a three year deal as director of coaching at the end of 2016, apparently he was hesitant to coach incase he got in and hated it but he's found some passion for the club and is emotionally invested in playing a role in getting this club back up to where he feels the oldest club should be. again just rumours I have heard around but if they're true it's exciting

There is no "right" choice except in hindsight. Take a punt you could end up with Clarkson or Neeld; headhunt for experience and you could end up with Pagan/Malthouse or Roos. The difference between an assistant coach and someone coming straight out of the media is that an AC has been in the system and has been exposed to the man management involved both in scope and nature. What would happen if we signed Ling, he did his 2 years under Roos and then at the end of it it was felt he wasn't ready or wasn't the right person? Does Roos still disappear after that? Do we then go out and sign another coach with Roos in the "head of football" Eade/Thompson role? I don't like this whole successor thing and havent since the start, we need to be working on keeping Roos until his job is finished no matter how long it takes, we can't just be forced to make it happen in a limited timeframe and then handover to someone else regardless of if its right or not. The successor role at Sydney worked because Longmire was already there and was able to be groomed after they had already recruited him and then identified him as suitable. They didn't recruit him with the successor role in mind.