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Really? That's your contribution? You thought that what you said was important enough for people to know that you wanted to post it onto the internet forever? In answer to your question, Chaser, yes he did play. Seemed to get through uninjured.

Where did the "class" discussion come from? I've got "class" but I don't have to brag about it - it's apparent.

When he got subbed in was worried that he may struggle on what had been a pretty hard fought tense game and I worried he may look lost out there a la Toumpas early last year - the difference could not have been more stark. He was only on for a quarter but he showed an appetite for the contest, an ability to run to the right spots and silky skills. In a word he looked classy.

I have been a big supporter of Watts. Last night I was calling for his head. His performance was bordering on bizarre. It was as though someone spiked his Gatorade with marijuana just prior to the warm up.

Can we please get Jack the hell off the Demonland banner and replaced with Dawes or Crossy or Dunn or Pederson or JKH or anyone in the team who actually plays like an AFL footballer?

You're way off the mark with Trengove. The suspension he got from the Dangerfield incident had a big impact on him, he was hung out to dry by the AFL and the club should have really put up a fight for him. He was badly let down. He will put his head down and get involved, injury has held him back and I hope he can get back on the park fit and well, he will be a bonus next year if he can.

I think: JKH is looking like a win for us. Salem showed some real class. Vince just had his best game in the H&A season. Cross fought hard. Jones was Jones. Pedersen played his best game for the Dees Dunn is very solid these days And... Watts was soft although he picked up a bit after Roos got stuck in to him. Howe was similar to Watts, but less soft and more lazy.

No, that's not actually what happened. He fumbled the ball, but it wasn't 'shirking'. You were just so keen to pin it on him that you assumed that it was, or possibly thought you could get away with it assuming nobody else would have been able to pull you up on it.

Let's temper our enthusiasm.....he's played for 5 minutes. We're so desperate for a shining knight that anyone who kicks straight and looks the goods is the messiah. PS. I loved the way he moved.

Here's the vision of Paul Roos talking to Jack Watts and Jeremy Howe last night: You can see the pure exasparation on Paul Roos face as he's walking away. You can also see Jeremy Howe turn around as if to say: "Who the hell are you to tell me what to do? I can take a speccie! Can you?"

Terlich has copped an unfair amount of hammer. I realize he makes the odd super clanger but a couple of his tackles were ferocious and he can get the pill. At least two of his more credentialed mates could do worse than use his guts and endeavour as an example to emulate.

$cully got completely pantsed yesterday as well. Jeebers we picked them. All for a $500,000 fine. Good on ya Cam....

Not sure about the shrink. With regards to his decline in contact since round 1, I put it down to round 1, new coach, new season, clean slate to an extent. Saints were serverly undermanned and had lots of kids in. Now as the season progresses and we start to play more experienced teams he goes missing. In the past a player will leave then play a decent game for their new club and we all say "were we the problem, couldn't we develop him". If Roos can't get the best out of a Watts this year he must be traded, might get a 2nd round if were lucky. Can't go into games with players who refuse to put in 100% regardless of how good your disposal is. We are building a culture, he is not setting a good example.

Amazing, isn't it? His form turnaround is heartening to see. Amazing what a bit of application and good old g&d will do for a good ordinary player.

They might as well write in to the rules that if a player gets tackled, they must immediately start convulsing as if they are having a seizure. That seems to be umpires' requirement for making a "genuine attempt".

We had about 6-8 players who didn't do enough tonight ... Watts, Howe, Frawley, Bail, Dawes, Jetta, Terlich and Byrnes all had questionable games. We needed at least one of Frawley or Dawes to stand up and both those blokes can play a lot better than what they showed tonight. Jamar played ok and hopefully, he'll start to involve himself more as the season progresses (in terms of possessions) Roos will want him to link up and do a lot more running and let's hope he's up for it. He's ahead of Spencer at this stage. Toumpas, Riley, Kent, Garland and Clisby are chances to come in but after that, the cupboard is becoming bare. Hogan will come in when he's ready and Michie might force his way in. Hunt needs time to develop. The rest need to find something and they had better be quick about it. What is becoming increasingly obvious are those who can and can't play under the Roos game plan. That transparency is there for all of us to see. It's hard work playing the way Roos wants them to play and our players are certainly finding that out (finally) There's absolutely no room for lazy players anymore. However, our attack on the ball and our 2nd and 3rd efforts has improved quite substantially. 29 clearances against Sydney's 35 is a fairly good result, all things considered. Our contested possessions matched their numbers as well. Keeping them to only 9 goals is another plus. The difference of course, is the finishing skills but that important area needs time and the recruitment of a number of good footballers. Could be quite a lively off season by the looks of it but until then, all our players will need to make the most of their opportunities. What was also pleasing was that we didn't go to sleep for a quarter. The quarter time scoreline didn't reflect our team's efforts. A reasonably solid performance and we're showing some promise and progress.

I think we do our team a disservice when we make comments like this. After one or two games you can say its luck but after 5 out of 6 I think we can start to say that the other teams don't look very good/don't convert their chances because we're not allowing them to.

Nathan Jones is a legitimate A grader. Salem will do as he pleases, even in AFL. Terlich will strengthen Casey. Tom McDonald is lucky Garland is injured. Viney and Tyson are taking this club forward. Brynes will strengthen the development squad at Casey. Dawes is worth 10 goals, gives us structure. Watts should've stuck to basketball. I love Roos.

Anyone who doesn't get home and automatically delete the game from their PVR/IQ fast forward to 3/4 time and have a look at Roos' frustration/inability to fathom the ineptitude of Watts & Howe - and then have a look at the players reactions. Watts looks like he wants to be anywhere except playing a game of footy and Howe looks in disbelief like he can't believe Roos is having a go at him. I had flashbacks for a second to Zantuck/Barassi though of course not to the same extent. It's only a brief shot as the camera pans away but you can see Howe just standing there and looks like he's about to say something back to Roos. We won't improve until we get pretenders like that out of our side. They're not good enough for modern footy and never will be. Howe is still a one-dimensional, unaccountable player who can't even perform his one dimension competently anymore. Loved the look of Salem the kid is class. Overall was happy with the effort other than a couple of dishonourable mentions but our skills and poise are still deplorable. We got caught out too often tonight out of position, Sydney are a well-drilled team and our guys looked lost on occasion which meant they were running into each other/giving off to someone under pressure. We did OK in close tonight but couldn't get any space to get our attacking game going. Sydney were able to on a few occasions more than us and had cleaner ball use which was the difference. We're on the right track but we need to drop a couple of non-performers, turnover over about a third of our list who aren't up to it talent-wise and drill the gameplan into the players until it is instinctual. Nathan Jones was well held tonight and while Vince stepped up somewhat he was nowhere near as damaging. Didn't notice anyone giving Jones a chopout on the TV - that touched goal towards the end of the third could have made a difference but overall I don't think the Swans were ever really worried. They actually went better once Franklin went off as it opened up their forward line a bit, up til then they'd been kicking it on top of his head. After that they isolated Terlich, Georgiou and Dunn and Terlich well and we couldn't defend against them.

Youch. Get well soon young fella

He has been told what he needs to do. He is not doing it. You need to watch him more closely. He is infuriating. Has to be dropped for some time I would think...

Your contribution to this thread: - stated Toumpas was "craping [sic] himself most of the first half", which was posted at about 3pm (ie, about half time of the game or just before). - stated that Toumpas went one handed at the balls because he was 'shirking it' causing him to fumble, which is in direct contradiction to what I saw when watching the game today. - failed to offer any other comment about any other aspect of the game by any player. - get angry and emotional as soon as another poster challenged your views with opposing views. Forgive me if I don't consider your opinion to be the most credible on Toumpas, especially considering you made no attempt to comment on anything else about the game at all.

He's a talent for sure. Can we please please please not stuff this one up? Please.

I too saw the game and I can remember a fumble from Toumpas but it didn't have anything to do with him "shirking the contest" on "a number of occasions".

Watching Port play tonight really reminds me how far we have to go as a team. The attack they put on the ball was ferocious. Every single player on that field threw themselves at every contest and every ball. Nobody jogged around waiting for the ball to come to them; everyone in that team works their ass off to make a contest to their teammates advantage. We will never get anywhere with passengers like Watts jogging around aimlessly.

Agree with the sentiment ..... Take T Mac off that list. If you think KP Defenders grow on trees your delusional. He makes some blues but rarely gets beaten week in week out.

He's one of many for me, come end of year I can see some other top 30 draft picks being delisted as they just show nothing at VFL level.From today Gawn was pretty good ruck wise and Aiden Riley certainly has a crack and shows more intensity than the players that will be fighting to stay on an AFL list. He finds the footy and moves well in traffic, very similar to J Viney. Other than that everything else was horrible and everyone looked slow, chasing tail all day. One positive is I ran into Jesse Hogan and he was smiling and in good spirits. He spent most of the game time out with us plebs having a few jokes with the casey crew and JKH also.

Since you need someone to draw you a diagram... No one is happy with Watts' performance, least of all me. But it has become a bloodsport for stupid people who are bored during the match, hurling abuse whenever they see him on the field, regardless of whether he is at fault for something or not. Irrespective of his performance, that crowd behaviour is not warranted, it is classless, and it is for the bottom feeders.

give it a break please machsy you are becoming more boring than watching jack try to play football

He thoroughly deserves it... Sick of hearing about him and from those who think he is part of our future. If he is we don't have one, sadly.

THIS from Crossy in his post-match interview, shows that he noticed and is fed up (already) with some players who aren't putting in: “We certainly had intent and pressure from most of the guys, which was a massive improvement from last week, but that’s the minimum standard that you have to have every week. “It’s a tough game that we play and you can’t have any passengers any week, so that’s what was disappointing.”

I think they need Watts back there to give some hard effort and tackling. He would no doubt straighten them up.

We need to get Watts off our list. Compare Jack Watts to Jack Viney Complete opposites in the way they play in every way.

Although jack is an incredibly frustrating footballer and is borderline starting to resemble Cale Morton, I must admit being disappointed by all of the Bronx cheers everytime he got a possession. Very Richmond fan like and hardly supporting ur team!! Some serious flogs of fans out there !

My view on last night. Jamar needs to better direct his taps and stop running under the ball at the bounce. Viney had a mare with getting caught and disposal but not once did he get down on himself and crack it, he just went harder more often. Love this kid. JKH looked good in traffic up and around the ground, was a bit surprised by that. Terlich, love his effort but FFS he is the worst kick. McDonald is a great defender but some one needs to help him with his awareness as he has zero! Bail... That game being your 50th save you from the red vest. Jetta... I've been one of if not the biggest critic from day one, but he showed a bit last night (still not convinced but his defensive efforts and spoils were first class) and I was stunned to see him get the vest and not Bail, Howe or Watts. Watts...ummm....yup.... Salem, from behind and a bit of distance looks like Gazza, on what he showed will be better than Gazza. Trying to keep a lid on it, but I have a saucepan lid and a dump truck of excitement. Dawes and Cross, showing the way you have to work and run, they will be the building blocks for us to become a team of elite hard workers.

I thought the effort was excellent and if we can bring that intensity every week I will be happy. I know we only kicked 5 goals but I'm a big believer in getting your defence right first and then worrying about offence. Yes we have been lucky with teams kicking poorly in games but I still think we've looked better defensively and have applied more pressure for longer periods of the game than we have in recent seasons. Our defence will get tested by better teams but at the moment we are not leaking goals like we have used to in the past and that means we are staying in games longer. Yep it was scrappy and dour but I'd take that any day over seeing the opposition kick goal after goal and us be 10 goals down at half time. In fact I loved the second quarter, I thought the intensity and pressure was terrific and it didn't bother me that only one goal was kicked. Finals footy is tough and hard and low scoring and you need to be able to scrap. I thought the difference in the game was Sydney's run and spread off half back. Guys like Shaw, Malceski and Rampe, with their hard running and pace they were able to get the ball out of the defensive half of their ground very quickly. We really lack this type of player - guys that can spread quickly and run the ball out of defence and then kick long and accurately. Sydney just have more class in their 22 than we do and that really was the major difference in the game. It wasn't a night for key forwards and Sydney's were quiet as well, but Frawley, Howe and Dawes were poor and, while we had a forward structure, we didn't really look dangerous with the long kick into our forward line (Dawes' effort was tremendous but he just couldn't get enough separation on his opponent to take any grabs). On Watts, I thought his effort was better than last week (which isn't saying much) but it was still well below acceptable levels. I wonder whether he looks at Pederson's game and thinks, "gee, here's a bloke who is undersized for the role he plays, not a great athlete, not quick, not particularly skilful, yet he had 10 times the impact that I did". Pederson probably got about 95% out of his natural talents tonight, Watts probably operated at about 15%. Overall another loss but I can see where we are heading and I believe in it. We will come up short most weeks as we don't have the talent but if we give effort like that I can't have any complaints.

Travis Johnstone was an absolute gun, a Best and Fairest winner who turned it on in finals pressure If I see Watts compared to him again i will vomit

How frustrating was that holding the ball on Viney in the first quarter!

This season to date except for west coast we have been in matches even though our skills let us down. This in itself is a huge improvement. We will continue to get better this season and more so once we have another player clean out. The tide is turning but very slowly.

I reckon Rohan Bail must be on his last legs unfortunately. Up and under kicks were starting to piece me off.

One of the best things I saw was him run last the player with the ball and put a shepherd on, not ask for the 2 meter handball so many do. Ps, Barrett you are a FLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGG

He's the leader we've needed since Junior, a great get.

He's deceptively big and was just about the only Melbourne player to put on shepherd! I like the look of him a lot.

Really impressed with Watts form tonight. Particular happy with the effort put into waving of arms and pointing in various directions. Running on and off the bench was breath taking and running consistently and beautifully around the ground keeping a watchful eye on the opposition. Am sure the Casey develop squad is waiting with trembling anticipation.

I had to look twice when I seen Cross take overhead marks today, I was thinking who is that. Cross is ULTRA impressive. Most important pick up, he is a leader and teacher.

Better than Spencer.

I'm going early here. We will beat the Tigers in 3 weeks.

33 touches

Well Salem showed he is the real deal. Must play a full game next week, nice to see a first round draft pick that shows us straight away why he was drafted where he was.

Well, it shows how tough the last seven years have been that I come away from a 31-point loss quite pleased with proceedings. It's the first time I've seen Salem live and he looks quite the classy player. We haven't had enough quality kids coming through in recent years obviously so I'm looking to the progress of Salem, JKH, Viney, Tyson, Toumpas and Sasquatch Hogan for some hope for the future. Baby steps with this team. As others are noting, attacking running and mindset are required for bigger scores, but when we've had neither good attacking or defensive running previously, it has to start with defence. I got in the car and listened to a solid 20 minutes of Melbourne talk on 774 too so that was a bonus. Scott West seemed unimpressed with our player development during his tenure there and indicated we hadn't invested enough in that area in the past and it has cost us with the number of high draft picks who never really developed and are either no longer at the club or languishing in the twos or in rancid form. Not stuff we didn't know, but good to listen to someone who had involvement at the club. All in all, not a night to be too upset about. We are getting better.