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Listening to Finey on SEN last night and he spoke about how he was lucky enough to go to a few Grammar games last season, and witnessed Kelly absolutely tearing the games apart. Said the kids an absolute freak and there was only one other player playing who was on par with him, who also shred the games and opposition he saw to pieces. That player was Christian Salem. So i recon pick 2 and 20, for Tyson and Salem is a bloody beauty.

I was shattered leaving the ground after the Hawks preseason game. I thought this loss was the one we did not need and it took all the wind out of a fragile groups sails. This fixture damaged the playing groups psych and was terrible for the supporters who turned up. I left the ground listening to Hawks supporters whinging about the game and comments of 'imagine barracking for the Dees'. I wanted to punch them all. I laughed when the Lions sent a seconds team against the Hawks a week or so ealier but in hind sight we should have done the same. The result would have been no worse and the players confidence would not have been shreded. Since that game Roos has been battling the mental demons in the heads of the players and a list that has the depth of kitchen sink. I go every week with the family inlcuding a father in law who has been a paid up member for over 60 consecutive years and walk away depressed, angry and devoid of hope. Why do I do it? for couple of reasons. 1. If the old fella can be bothered so should I. 2. If Jim could turn up with a whole in back of his head then so should I. 3. and finaly because the young blokes who pull on jumper each week come out to face the enemy do it and we all should get off our a^$ses and support them. What I want is for this club to turn it around and become a premiership contender and that is a lot easier if the boys can feel some support from the outer. I cant see the hope in the playing list right now but I do have confidence in PJ and Roos and I guess eventually something must give. What does pick me up is seeing the supporters each week come out knowing that they are likely to go home disappointed. We may not have that many supporters and its hard to compete with the noise of the Colingwood and Richmond faithful but we do have as loyal a bunch as any team in the comp.

I think 95% of the posters here would appreciate it if the usual posters don't clog up yet another thread with dick measuring posts and cheap shots. Get over yourselves. Hopefully Hutchy and Robbo are both on the money and that Clark is working towards playing for the club again and not the alternative. Some positive news is just what we need.

Under any honest system you don't get penalised for the same thing twice. Perhaps that's why the AFL made up the bull[censored] about us having the ability to bounce back properly. It was purely because of pressure from other clubs, most of them led by hypocrites who went on a junket with Vlad to work out ways of evening up the system. More bull [censored].

Gee. Making rash statements about drafting and trading after three games. His skills are wasted. He should be posting on Demonland.

It would've been a great deal less amount of times if he had some mates going with him, knowing where to run and backing themselves and their teammate to break a line. Watching the top teams it only highlights how important it is to know your role intimately, back your team mates and always be on the move. We have so far to go, I don't hope Tyson changes that part of his game - I hope his teammates change theirs!

I hope Mitch stays purely to make all the harbingers of doom look stupid.

As long as the sun keeps dawning on a new day there is hope. Well, that's what I keep telling myself. That there is something around the corner. It's happened before. 1987, 1998, 2004. Different lists, different eras, but you get the point. What was disappointing for me on the weekend was when my 12 yo daughter turned to me last night after the game and said, (first and only time I hope) , "dad, can we change teams." That was a kick in the guts experiencing that first hand. Thankfully my wife was quick to jump in and tell her why we stay true. Talk about deflating, but my wife was right! Only true supporters - no matter what club they barrack for, remain loyal to their club through good times and bad. Some (few) will take the perceived easy way out, and what of the values they preach from there? How can you develop a true love or deep admiration for another team that you've hated/disliked/remained distant from prior? No matter what anyone says or disputes, you can't. You can try, but it's never the same.

i don't even know anymore.

Watched it again this morning. There's a few going through the motions... The thing that sticks out is we panic with the ball and either give off quickly to a poor option or second guess what our next move is and move the ball so slowly the opposition can flood forward. Plenty of times slightly better disposal could have seen us break forward and catch them napping.

GWS beat Sydney. We had no rucks and a forward line that was so good we needed to play our best backs there. Sure the skills need more polish than a million tonnes of Mr Sheen, and we have half a dozen players that aren't up to the mark, but it is really wrist slitting time? When you play every bounce from CHB and, have zero forwards and a bunch of guys learning (yet another) way to play what are you really expecting? Don't get me wrong, I don't think any of this is something to take heart from but the half a team we had on the park over the last couple of weeks showed more than the full teams we had under Neeld. There is a hell of a lot of work to do - a hell of a lot - but there is less to do than this time last year. We need some tall talent and we need this group to trust each other. That won't happen in a week or two and it was never going to happen in a week or two.

Drafts previous to the ones mentioned were also problematic but i think one thing that doesnt seem to get mentioned is our club's misfortune at bottoming out at the time the two new franchises entered the league and dropped our first round and subsequent picks 8 rungs lower. It also meant the value of our 2009 number 1 pick hasnt been of any field use to any tangible degree and wont until Hogan gets onto the paddock. Any analysis of the 2011 draft and it being a failure is a furphy. It was a putrid draft and there isnt much that could have been done that would have made a difference at any of the picks. Trading for clark was an inspired move that has been cursed with bad luck obviously. The reality is that most gun AFL players were skinny kids who dominated junior levels against stronger bodies and the. Transfer that to AFL football. Are these same peoplemcalling for big bodied warriors saying Tapscott is a great pick? Or that getting Magner was inspired?

It's just a ploy OD. I always played FF in my illustrious career. You and I will swap ends before the bounce... Just like BBO and Biffen do on the weekends

Changes? Change the effing lot. B. Steam'n Demon, Biffen, WYL. HB. Stuie, BBO, TSFKAs C. Django, Redlegs, SteveTMJordan. HF. Cudi420, JumboR, Nasher. F. BobbyMc, WhisperingJack, Old Dee R. Deespicable, JVineyFan. R. Maggot77 (of course) INT. 45HG, Steam'nDemon, IvaWarneSmith. Sub. Gorgoroth. If ya not picked, tuff luck, I didn't even give myself a game.... Sorry but I'm at a point were I can only laugh at our lot, Im way past all the crap my beloved Dee's have dished up SINCE '64', an interstate member I remain an will continue ta b until "WHATEVER"..........

It's pretty obvious from todays performance if it wasn't already, that we need to get a long term commitment from PJ & Roos if this club is to be turned around. The idea that they can walk in for a couple of years and wave a magic wand is laughable. This is a serious sport and it needs to be taken seriously by those in charge including the AFL. Stop gap measures were taken by Jimmy and his board bringing the likes of G Lyon in on a part time basis working with a paralysed board and an incompetent CEO. We will need further AFL assistance to bail out our financial position and including the PP we didn't get last year plus another for this year. A full time commitment from all involved is what's needed, not a hand over...there will be nothing to hand over. We either get this commitment or I really can't see us surviving.

90% of kids in the draft are skinny. Look at Daniher at Essendon. Look at Buckley at Carlton. There are many good reasons why our draft picks have failed - being skinny isnt one of them.

Exactly, we werent that bad, just didnt make finals, kinda like a bulldogs or Richmond. We also had the great Robbie flower . It was a different game to watch, much more pleasurable than todays crap. One on ones all over the ground, long kicking and high marking. Even if you lost you could still take pleasure if a Ray Biffen or Steve Smith beat a top full forward. We could also watch our boys , like Hardeman, Wells, alves, flower etc play for victoria, we actually had players in the top fifty.

Can't underestimate what losing Mitch means. Roos had him earmarked to ruck for a fair part of the game, to mentor/protect Jessie when he starts to play, to be the general on the field, to motivate by sheer presence/ability, to be the focal point of the game plan. He was such an integral part of Roos' planning. Dawes may be a good forward but he can't do the other roles (at Collingwood he and Cloke and Brown alongside). Jessie will be a champ but we can't afford to (again) send a new player to the wolves as we did Watts. I wonder to what extent Mitch going has shattered the newfound, fragile confidence players had coming into the season. Maybe with Mitch going they have seen the new game plan go up in smoke and feel lost again. Is depression contagious. Yes, last comment a bit facetious but something has to explain their current lack of interest/attitude.

I think, actually, more hope, that with Jackson and Roos at the helm we will become a good team. A team that will win, but for now, I am resided to the fact we are a junk yard of a side and have been for quite a while. I was so filled with hope with the St Kilda game and I reckon the players were too and losing that game simply took the jam out of the players, supporters and anyone associated with the club's donut. SO I can only imagine what it is like for parents of kids who go week in, week out and have to look at their little son's or daughters face after games and answer questions as to why we didn't win. I barrack for Melbourne, because my Dad does, he chose to break away from his Essendon supporting family to follow the dees. Why? Because players like Hassa Mann, Barassi, Stuie caught his eye and he was hooked ever since. Then I came along in 82, the only games we went to were Melbourne games, usually at Windy Hill as Grandad would pop along or to sit in the red seats of the G and most often, celebrate WINS. After wins we would run through Fitzroy gardens hip and shouldering each other, Dad pretending he was Grinter and knocking me over. The drive home with the scarves out the window and talking about the highlights. Whether it was Jimmy's heroics, Garry Lyon bagging a few, just how tough Todd Viney was, Stephen Stretch on a wing, how arrogant Jakovich was and how we loved it. Dad and I still talk about a Melbourne Carlton game when there was a massive pack and Rodney Grinter lined someone up from about 40 metres away, ran full pace, jumped into the pack and flew out the other side missing everyone. I have 2 kids of my own, a 2 year old daughter and a 6 month year old son. I cop it from mates for "child abuse" when I bought them memberships this year, but I don't care as I consider it failed parenting if you can't get your kids to barrack for your team (whether thats harsh or not I'll let the courts decide), but for me, if my kids were of age where they could fully understand whats going on with Melbourne, I would find it almost impossible to take them to the game and I worry that I will miss opportunities to talk to my kids about our victories, run through Fitzroy gardens pretending I'm Melbourne's toughest player (if we have one) and then talking about the players who were on fire. AS face it, apart from a small cameo from Mitch Clark, we haven't had much to talk about with a smile on our face, and for the parents out there, I imagine thats what makes whats happening at the Dees, even more disappointing.

This is as faithfully quoted as possible, on the run: As noted, Tyson had 25 possessions, 10 clearances.This was 6 more clearances than any other Melbourne player. Only Treloar and Cognilio had more and they were roving to Mumford who was outstanding. Neil Cordys best: M Jones, Howe, Frawley, Watts, Jones. It's easy to pile on the unsuccessful club, but this is just a nonsense. Tyson not included in the best either demonstrates a failure to understand the game, or an attempt to colour a pretty poorly thought out article.

Why do I get the feeling you won't be happy if Mitch stays? Seriously mate, pull your head in. You're right, nothing has been announced officially, so even YOUR opinion is just an opinion and a guess, so stop talking like you know more than anyone else.

Preview for Footy Classifieds had Fat Hutchy say "A star Demon ready to return to football". I am going to assume Dawes or, fingers and toes crossed, Clark. Maybe it's not all over yet. Maybe he isn't giving up. Come on Mitch, we need you like we need a win!!!

Out: Theme song when running out In: Feels like we only go backwards

Its almost like we now have been conditioned to not care any more. I hear unthinking smarties say things like "oh melbourne supporters desert in droves" when in fact we have been strong and resilient for many many years. My whole life I have hung on. Only late 80's and early 90's were we strong. We werent really good enough in 2000 to be there but we got there. The way this club and the AFL goes about its business, it will be way too late for the large mass of supporters before anything really happens.

":The Dees are gonna be something!!" - Bruce McAvanaey, 2010 Well he was right We are definitely something, too bad that something is a disgrace to the game of footy

we need another 2-3 Dom Tysons. Young (20 years old)- check Immediate impact- check Leading by example-check Star potential- check

Another thread on drafting. Lamashtu posted recently about how this thought process that if we'd only taken the right kids and everything would be better is the exact reason we're where we are at right now. Our strategy was to take our draft picks, bring in talented kids, and have them pull us up off the bottom of the ladder. The argument that we stuffed up our recruiting and that this 'says it all really' is indicative of the attitude that the MFC ruined this club with, this idea that 'oh, let's just stack the list with talented kids and wait a few years, then we'll be fine'. Let's focus on some of the more pressing issues, that can actually be fixed (theoretically, anyway): our attitude, our lack of being a team, our skills, our efforts, our game plan.

Someone give me one reason why I should watch next week? Every time I take three hours out of my precious weekend, that's time with my family or time doing something productive that I'm not getting, and all I get out of it is frustration and disappointment. I watch footy for entertainment. The last two weeks have left me feeling so immensely bored that all it is becoming is a complete waste of time. I don't even want to watch the good teams play any more. I'm currently supporting this team out of obligation. I'm not sure how much longer I can hang on.

Apart from the virtually overarching Melbourne factor there are too many games these days that simply don't capture the imagination. Leaving aside last night's MCG game there's a sameness about many of the games and then there's the contrived teams like GCS and GWS built up through rules designed to ensure quick success at the cost of others. Too much dull colourless boring shyte that will be tested this year by the World Cup and even by the cricket next year. Attendances are down, the natives are complaining and the people who run the game believe its in great shape.

Tyson keeps me wanting to go to the football, there's still plenty of improvement for him but he's shown himself to be a very worthy pick up and a value trade with Salem still to come. People will be crying for Roos to play Salem but I think Roos will stay the course and let him develop with less pressure.

Not sure that is true. Lets assume Clark has come to the conclusion my body and mind cannot do this anymore I want to stop. Then his agent who will be wanting to achieve two things IMO - Get the best financial deal he can for Clark - ensure he maximizes his commission because there is probably no more from Clark. So try a subtle paint of the MFC as " we want to discuss an exit structure for Mitch" Puts the ball back in the MFC court to come up with an offer.

What about posters stop carping on about this? Dunn has been above average for a couple of years now....Roos has been coach for 3 games.

Schwab's greatest achievement was in pulling off this con job that sucked in just about everybody from experts, the media, fans(both ours and others) to punters.

all free agency is going to achieve in my opinion is keeping the strong clubs up the top for longer and the week clubs hoping they can develop their players well to get anywhere

gee,im gonna cop it for this. watching the game on telly{yes difficult to judge}i thought in the conditions against mummy that spence did a faIr job.

I reckon there'd be up to a quarter of list that wouldn't even be rookied at another club.

Agree, They will be fired up and I bet Judd will return to play us. had, including in the 70's and it's hard to believe that the club has managed to stuff so many early selections and recruit so many pea hearts. I watch these guys play with no spirit no genuine heart and in half the team's case, no talent. It must disgust the players like Vince and Cross who have come from clubs that think putting in every week is what you are supposed to do. I am ashamed of the Melbourne Football Club. Shame on you Robbie F. The real Robbie F. would be disappointed in you. I am DISAPPOINTED with our present situation but I will never be ASHAMED of the team I love. My car is adorned with Demons stickers, car seat covers and MFC number plates. I am proud to let people know who I barrack for.

Not at 30. Throw some coin at some quality kids, that way we might actually have a future.

Youre wrong on this. We bottomed out before GWS and GC came into the comp. Thats when we got Scully and Trengove. Its why we were accused of tanking. We bottomed out at the right time. We just never chose correctly nor managed to get off the bottom.

That's rubbish, mate. I love this club. Our football team has been hopeless since 2007, but I won't ever stop supporting and I will go along every week.

Your right we need tough footballers. Watts Trengove Toumpas and Grimes are not the answers there are many more as well. We have to get players that really want to win the ball. Jones and Viney are excellent examples. Wynes would have been better than Toumpas. Darling would have been better than Watts. Martin would have been better than Trengove and on and on we could go. What we have to do quicker is recognise when a player is not making the grade and move them on. Trade them and get someone better. We hold on to players because of what they might become, this is flawed. Forget development, that's for lower grades, when they get to this level they have to be able to win the ball consistently and we have too many who cant. We need to make wholesale changes, attract real footballers to our club and don't ever stop that process. That's what the top clubs do. Hawthorn do it consistently we should follow their example.

I don't understand why we need an answer now. If Mitch needs the year off then have it. He is still under contract and could come back completely well. He's not going to come back any time soon so what is the rush to make a decision on his future?

They should both have at least one month of dominating the VFL before being considered for selection.

Here's the thing - I watch on this site as people who say "they have had enough" are consistently told to go jump and follow another team by people on here. I am a mid 20's guy, but I am so sick to death of expecting the fact that this team is going nowhere. Every year we have had a justification, first it was Daniher, then it was the Bailey got rid of Bruce, Junior and Green, then it was Bailey himself, then it was Neeld was too harsh and traded for crap players (which incidentally I agree with). The we got Roos and all of a sudden everyone (myself included) thought that everything was going to change and change dramatically. The fact is, is that the expansion clubs came in, and for an already established club, this was the worst time that you could possibly be on the bottom. The draft concessions, the min-draft, trading top picks all went so far as to make the mission for us even more impossible - how can a team on the bottom compete with that? I was impressed with what Roos did in the off season, and I still think that the acquisition of Tyson, Cross, Vince and even Michie was a good move. My problem, is that the development of the players that was supposed to have occurred with our drafted players, I'm talking, Trengove, Tapscott, Blease, Strauss, Gawn, Watts, even Tom McDonald and Jack Grimes who still can't kick, hasn't. There has been zero player development since Melbourne last played finals. Hopefully Roos and co can fix this, but the solution won't be short term. It pains me to write that, to acknowledge that, but that is reality. It doesn't mean we should except mediocre efforts, or players with no skills. I'm not sure if anyone else agrees with me, but do you think Morton, Gysberts, Cook, etc would have been decent players had then been drafter to other clubs who have had no such issues with player development? I'm not sure they would have all been a success, but perhaps they might have gotten SOMETHING out of the picks they had. I don't know, it's hard to put in writing what I feel right now, because I would love nothing more than to see some improvement. How much emphasis can we put on the Neeld era? It's fair to say, Neeld really buggered up the confidence of our players, and didn't develop anyone. I sincerely hope that the following players are dropped for next week. Some might be harsh, but I think we are at a point where it is time to find out if Toumpas can play, if Strauss, Blease, Trengove, Tapscott, Clisby etc can play. I think that Terlich (how often does he turn it over and get caught?) Matt Jones, Shannon Byrnes, Rohan Bail need to be dropped. I know wholesale changes are never really looked upon favourably, but what's the difference? Surely we can't do any worse - we just got beaten by GWS (again). Does anyone know the prognosis on Gawn, Dawes, Garland etc? Really frustrated supporter here, who realistically looks forward to seeing the Casey results every weekend, and dreaming that someone down there might make a difference.

No it is a lot more about attitude than simply personnel. Some of our players need to grow a backbone. Send them to train with the Storm for a couple of weeks and they might learn some of the basics of AFL e.g. Tackling, chasing down, running straight, evading and being aggressive.

Yep...that should do it.

Is Cheney a much better player at Hawthorn than he was at Melbourne or is it just that his teammates are better? Last week he really stood out for being quite poor I thought. Morton, Gysberts and Maric all failed at other AFL clubs (plus Cook failed in the VFL) which to me is far more clear that drafting is the issue.

Sorry its the end of the line with mitch, he has lost the club $700000, and a pp pick in last years draft, that is one of the reasons the AFL gave for not getting one, they said we would be a better side when he came back, like I said before about mitch, I like the way he plays, but that's the facts.

I'd pass. He's been up his mum and his legless sister and he thinks he killed his dad!

Here is my rough run down, I don't pretend I am anything more than a rank amateur but here goes. It was a fairly ordinary game with lots of errors by both sides in the first half and only improved a little in the second. Either side could have ended the other by reasonable kicking for goal, as the score show both licked 14 points and lots of then were not hard shots. I thought only three players played well enough to be included in the seniors, I would add that they would only get games at the MFC. No idea what happened in Sydney other than losing by 5, probably some spots available for next week. Jamar easily beat his opponents all day as he should at this level. NOT the level of 2010 but I would play him next week in the senior team. Mckenzie had a scratchy start but improved to be IMO in the best three. Clisby was solid and kicked a beautiful goal in the last quarter after a hard attack down the Bowling green side of the ground. At that point I thought he had sealed the Game. Jetta IMO he won the game for Casey in the second half when shifted from the backline to Mid / Forward. Very good game pity he is on the rookie list was way better than about most of our listed players. The rest should be playing with Casey next week. Nicholson played well but his disposal was the normal, he is a VFL player. King tried hard but with lack of weight is easily pushed aside, 2017 before he is more than Casey No. 76 VFL standard IMO Trengove better second half but he looks nothing like a number No.2 draft pick, had a reasonable game but again barely made the distance when kicking from about 40 out in the last quarter. Toumpas played mainly in defense, average game, did do a couple of beautiful kicks out of defense in the second half. Blease played well in the second half but is still a flash in and out of the game for me. Michie reasonable game but VFL At this point. Riley got a fair bit of the ball but was either too slow or tried to do too much, got caught with the ball a lot. Hope that gives a bit of info PS Dawes and Garland were sitting 5 meters from me in the third quarter, story of our year. Fire away guys I will do my best. PS Great to go to a game and see a win The only KPF on the ground IMO was Smith for Casey I think he is way better that any fit KPF on the MFC list.