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Let's hope that over the course of the season, Roos can repair the scars inflicted by his predecessor. I am hoping that Bartlett, Jackson and Roos can move the Club, players and supporters forward. For the first time in years I am excited about the coming season and the possibilities it will bring.

Some people don't like plain speak. I do. Some people like diplomacy. There's a time and a place. Roos hasn't done many interviews, but when he does he's not in control of the questions. Even if he's occasionally repeating himself I appreciate his candour and perspective. He's managing expectations externally to protect his players. But he's also providing an environment for them to thrive. We've had spin for 7 years, but supporters are now complaining that he's repeating himself, or too forthright with the truth ? It's the classic reminder that you can't be all things to all people.

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned here but one of the things that astounded me in Jackson's address was the fact that he has been able to cut $1.8 million from administrative salaries. I did get that right didn't I? To think we can operate effectively without these cost, attract major sponsors, deal with more members and still manage to cut that number of staff is very frustrating. I'm not a FH but I have been a player sponsor for a number of years, certainly since Schwab and Stynes/McLardy took over and I've been happy to contribute because I thought I was helping the club be competitive. It would appear all I've done is support a top heavy administration and have unnecessary senior staff running round whilst the club has failed on the field and struggled financially. We really were taken for fools and it's hard to feel any affection for those that squandered our money. Thank heavens for Jackson.

"...certainly a massive part of the pre-season was understanding each and every player and talking to them, understanding them and giving them a bit of a cuddle.” —Paul Roos, Melbourne Coach and sane man

Maybe I was reading a different article, but what I got from it that as a player he understands all too well how painful it is to play for a club you love that is run by people you don't believe in, and that as a premiership coach it's important to give players defined roles with clear objectives, and that to keep in mind that these young men need to know that everything that is being asked of them is only being asked because it will make them better footballers. I also got the feeling that they'll play for him because he won't throw them under a bus when things get tough.

Surely you mean his predecessors in the plural since the main example he has publicly highlighted was how he was "appalled" by Jack Watts debut? He also makes it clear the midfield deficiencies desperately needed addressing and that many of the poor traits the team developed have been evident for a long time viz bruise free and 186 which preceded the last coach. Our record as a losing team stretches back as far as 2007 and didn't develop overnight and, as you yourself point out, you're excited about the coming season "for the first time in years".I'm also excited about the coming season but I see the current publicity coming from the club as part of a clever and necessary PR exercise to distance ourselves from our past failures. You read the same every time a new coach takes over in these circumstances (look at what Richardson is saying over at the Saints) and it's too early to get carried away by it.

Midfield of the whites, we're excellent, but even more impressive defending. The blues were simply unable to break through their press. Cross was perfect in his application of filling the hole, whilst Vince and Jones are so footy smart. Somewhat exciting when you think you're adding a fit Trengove (who during skills for me did look quicker today, not so much sprinting, but first 5 steps quicker), a developing Toumpas, a bull in Viney and whoever else raises their hand. Saw a few people comment on Matt Jones today saying what a good game he had for the Blues. I saw him very actively involved, and for him and Michie I felt like they would have looked alot better on the other team, with players moving for them, but I didn't see in MJ what others did. He is a fantastic accumulator, he gets to the right spots but his disposal by foot is so clumsy. They're not disastrous clangers, but its always a kick 1 meter behind or in front and a handball that bounces before it gets to them. Love his endeavour, but I'm not sure he's best 22. Blease was another who I have no opinion on up until today. He's always frustrated with his selfish one way football and poor tank, but today he was decent. He seemed to run hard, he gave many options and at times he was working hard to defend. It was encouraging. However, in the first period he made a classic Blease error where he ran hard to get a mark, had no options, rushed and kicked the ball straight out on the full from a completely uncontested situation. It was there when I realised he will surprise me if he is a mainstay in our team. Not sure if many paid attention given the game that was going on, but Viney was flat out embarrassing Riley in the running around the oval. He literally has only one attitude to football, and it's just to destroy whoever he's competing with. He was enjoying Riley's struggles. On that note, don't be expecting Riley for a while. His leg must be quite sore because his running fitness was not up to standard for a midfielder in today's limited rotations football. He's got 8 weeks to work on it never the less. Hogan worked hard today and was looking incredibly frustrated by the delivery or lack there of. When Strauss hit him with one of the lead outside 50, he almost let out an enormous ****! in relief. Salem I had no expectations for before, and he blew me away. His composure was fantastic given so little training, and his left foot is gorgeous. For the person above who asked about Dom Barry, he was disappointing in the game, but his skills in the training before hand were great. I was quite impressed. Evans also trained very well, and they seem to have him in the midfield group not half forward last year, but was also a little bit off in the match simulation. I personally prefer Strauss to Clisby and Terlich, someone earlier wrote that he butchered one which he did, but his footwork around the ground is unrivalled at our club. I say with absolute certainty he is the best kick at our club, both in execution and in technique. Flawless. In other battles today JKH is clearly our best FP. Shannon Byrnes offered absolutely nothing today and I was very disappointed. 43.. Who I believe is Harmes but could be Hunt was decent in defence. King looks raw but is sadly probably our most 'skilled' big man. Great kick on him. I'd say Jamar is our first ruck, with Spencer his back up at this point. Gawn blew up 2nd quarter. Anyone has any particular players they'd like to know about, happy to answer!

I hope it was noted there is no "Plan B". I always laugh at the supporters ringing up Finey about Ratten, Knights etc etc saying we don't have "Plan B". If you have a good game plan there is no such thing as "Plan B", everything is covered in the plan. If you have "Plan B" you have a mess and players don't know what the hell they are doing.

More Neeld bashing. Narcissistic, lazy, unaccountable footballers who'd drink their own bath water. No wonder Scully left. Roos should have conducted himself with more diplomacy in the interview. Don't expect to see Clark appearing any time soon.

Part 2: Teams (initial): White: Bail, Byrnes, Cross, Fitzpatrick, Frawley, Gawn, Georgiou, Grimes, Harmes, N Jones, JKH, King, Nicholson, Pedersen, Salem, Terlich, Toumpas, Tyson, Vince. Blue: Barry, Blease, Clisby, Dunn, Evans, Hogan, Howe, Jamar, Jetta, M Jones, Kent, McDonald, McKenzie, Michie, Spencer, Strauss, Trengove, Westrupp. Missing: Clark, Dawes, Garland, Hunt, Riley, Tapscott, Trengove, Viney, Watts (Viney + Dawes + Riley on sideline) A fair match. Teams look fairly even but I'd back white. First Quarter: Dawes is off for now. 19 v 18 now. Matt Jones with the clearance for blue. Georgiou holds his own against Hogan one on one. Beautiful kick from Salem to Fitzpatrick. Fitz does not make the distance from your classic James Brayshaw BU-NA-NA. Short 25m kicks the order so far for Blue. It's the same deal for White but with switch play. Georgiou beats Hogan again! He's looking alright so far. Salem has hit two targets inside 50 from two kicks. Toumpas lining up. Goal. White 1.0 (6) Blue 0.0 (0) Back in the middle. Viv doing the work winning the hard ball and gets a couple of touches. Again, a chain of 25m kicks hitting the target. Hogan on the lead, now on Frawley. Two White blokes on their own through the middle. Why? Forward pressure from White excellent. Pedersen mark + shot for goal. Goal. White 2.0 (12) Blue 0.0 (0) White off to a flyer. Salem with three touches and two score involvements so far, good form. Playing on a flank. Kent crunches Tyson in a tackle. Free kick and hits Toumpas. Toump has two goals. White 3.0 (18) Blue 0.0 (0) Toumpas continuing his pre season form up forward. Blue clearance thanks to a McKenzie free. White repelling every Blue attack thus far. Salem gets a fifth touch. He's mauling it and has hit four targets inside 50. Toumpas with a free kick close to goal. Three goals. White 4.0 (24) Blue 0.0 (0) Cross, Salem and Toumpas are killing it so far. Matt Jones with a second clearance. Free to Hogan! Blue set to hit the scoreboard. One behind. White 4.0 (24) Blue 0.1 (1) Very quick kick in transition but Roh Bail kicks a point. White 4.1 (25) Blue 0.1 (1) Blue's kick in is slower and more methodical. White are just working harder. Not giving them room. Jay Kennedy-Harris applying extreme pressure but it doesn't pay off. Hogan with Blue's first goal at quarter time. White 4.1 (25) Blue 1.1 (7) Goals: White - Toumpas 3, Pedersen Blue - Hogan Story so far is that Cross, Salem and Toump have been excellent. Salem and Cross with about 10 touches between them. Toump with three goals as mentioned above. Two fighter jets fly over very randomly. Second Quarter: Blue in a bit of a pickle here. Three goals down to start the second. Not working anywhere near as hard as White are and can't get it through the midfield. Sounds somewhat familiar. White clearance. JKH with his first touch. Max King with a couple of touches and hits N Jones inside 50. One behind. White 4.2 (26) Blue 1.1 (7) Dunn with a torp down the middle! Didn't work though as Grimes intercepts. Salem with another touch and another inside 50. More fighter jets flying over. Blue with a forward 50 entry. Viv not keen on hitting a forward 50 target due to White's pressure man on man. In the end it's a White free for on the full. Bernie Vince getting a few touches. JKH breaks M Jones' ankles, turning him inside out! Wow. One behind to Blue. Blease clobbers behind post but is okay. White 4.2 (26) Blue 1.2 (8) JKH intercepts inside 50 but does not score. Spencer up the other end goes for a run (!) then hits Howe. Howe goals. Game on. White 4.2 (26) Blue 2.2 (14) Clearance to Harmes who is now with Blue. Howe grabs a clearance from throw in but misses the lot. Viv has a shot, on the full. Salem and Toumpas playing more on ball now. Blue certainly fighting back however. Now White with a slower build up. None of the quick movement in the opening stanza. Harmes with another clearance. Looking alright so far. Spencer clunking a mark. He's looking good. I want to see a big season from him - we need to, the ruck looks rather weak at the moment for us. Forward pressure from Blue is far better this quarter. Role reversal from the first quarter. Salem and Toumpas combine again and N Jones gets another shot at goal. Misses. White 4.3 (27) Blue 2.2 (14) Kick in slow from Blue. Viv turns the wick on a bit but doesn't hit Kent down the line. Salem to JKH but JKH misses on the run. End of the quarter. White 4.4 (28) Blue 2.2 (14) Goals: White - Toumpas 3, Pedersen Blue - Hogan, Howe It's good to see Salem playing extremely well. He's had about nine touches. For a draftee I'm super impressed. Wondered why he averaged 145 in SuperCoach last year in the TAC Cup? Kid is a ball magnet. But I don't see him straight into the side yet. Let him ease in to it at Casey, Roosy. Viv had a lot of the ball too that quarter. Recruits standing up! Third Quarter: Although goalless that quarter White still looking the goods. Held out Blue's intense pressure that quarter and conceded only one goal. Back under way. Toumpas playing in the guts now, as is JKH. Salem still forward. Strauss hits Hogan lace out on the lead. Georgiou looks comfortable in the one on ones. Viv has been Blue's best player I reckon. Has had about 10-11 touches. Hogan laying a big tackle now inside 50. JKH taking everyone and the game on again. Liking it a lot. He's got into it as the game has gone on. Pedo out of the pack, snaps, goal. His second. White 5.4 (34) Blue 2.2 (14) Crossy with his bread and butter from the bounce, at the bottom of the pack, gets it to Trengove who gets the clearance. Toump lining up for number four! He gets it! He has been excellent!!! White 6.4 (40) Blue 2.2 (14) N Jones with the clearance. Blue gets it but Kent misses a gettable one. White 6.4 (40) Blue 2.3 (15) White's kick in very quick as I'm typing and Howe gets in on the act kicking a goal for both sides now. Classic coast to coast footy. White 7.4 (46) Blue 2.3 (15) N Jones again with the clearance. Quick transition to Howe, Howe kicks two in two minutes. White 8.4 (52) Blue 2.3 (15) White are just working far harder than Blue. Though it helps to have Jones, Cross and Tyson. Trenners with another clearance but Dunn intercepts. Spencer just far too big for King in the ruck. Again White clear and Salem gets another couple of touches, as does Jones. Some switch play and White are away. Pedo takes a mark inside 50 and lines up. Or so I thought. Goes to Howe in the goalsquare, he kicks another. That's four in total, three this quarter. White 9.4 (58) Blue 2.3 (15) M Jones with the clearance. Kent moving well and has had a few touches. Blue can't penetrate inside 50, White very good defensively. Blue do get an inside 50 entry and Hogan lines up after the whistle to end the quarter. Consolation goal. White 9.4 (58) Blue 3.3 (21) So there it is, White dominating. It's easy to look at the side and say they were too good, reality is White were far better than Blue who had lost a couple beforehand and simply didn't work hard enough apart from Michie, Spencer, Kent, McKenzie and probably M Jones too, while for White it was a good effort. Salem, Cross, Howe (in the last quarter) and Toumpas were impressive. N Jones put in a typical game. What I do want to see is Melbourne (whoever is in the 22) put in as much effort as the White team did today.

Really interesting, and probably more candid than I've seen him in print before. New coach Paul Roos shocked by Demons' scars

I wasn't talking to you rah rah rah. lol Seriously though, mjt, let go of your dislike for me - you're embarrassing yourself. Please go and find my 'snide, disgraceful and pathetic' comments about Neale Daniher. But you won't will you? Because while you think of me as a 'try hard' and a 'know it all' - you don't try very hard to know anything you comment on. Here, I will save you the ignominy of looking for the nuanced views of others. I wrote this in another thread: Neale Daniher was a very good coach and would be alongside Northey in a list (we all wish was longer) of the best coaches since Smith. However, decisions made many years ago effect the club well past the point they are initially made.

You stole my thought. Which other Melbourne Coach would have got those 4 pages in the sports section of our 2 biggest papers, with his sponsors logos there and gaining massive publicity for the club. Roos makes us relevant in the AFL because he is so repected. We were irrelevant for the last few years.

I would call you a clown but that would be stereotypical of people who work in the Circus industry.

You might want to review your own user name which many might also consider racist and offensive.

You have to be joking pull your head in.

The previous administration had gotten the Club out of debt and we posted a profit of $70000 the previous year, so no it wasn't a mess, the only mistake was picking the wrong coach, net result the fairweather supporters jumped off and we had to pay out contracts...hence the need to cut costs, we had a couple of extra at the top. the CFO springs to mind, we didn't necessarily need... revisionists are wonderful

I think Chris Dawes has a big chance, Fitzys in front of Dawes at this stage.

The only comparison he made between Watts and Goodes is his running capacity. Didn't say he was Adam Goodes, plays football like Adam Goodes or will be a brownlow medallist like Adam Goodes. All he said was that Goodes and Watts had similar tanks, which would allow Watts to have the ability to run both ways. Nothing wrong, or hypocritical, with that.

In the HS article Roos said of Trengove "Roos is blunt: he plans to rebuild Trengove's game. "I have seen some positive signs with Jack. What we need to do is reconstruct his game. He has been the captain and he's never been able to solely worry about his game." Well back to the opening post and it seems that Roos is not of your opinion TGR. For all Trengove and Grimes might have been good leadership material they were not ready for it and it hurt Jack Trengove significantly.

Enjoyed reading it - insightful and encouraging - but I am not changing my view of waiting until rounds 8 - 11 to make my first decision on whether the Roos plan is working. I particularly loved what he said about Toumpas, Viney and Hogan. They are not the saviours of the club who have to perform from day 1. He has recruited Cross and Vince to join in with N Jones to "take a few hits" for these younger players who can develop their first 30 games free of immediate selection, pressure and expectation. And at the least it sounds like Trengove and Watts are understood as footballers. My opinion of the first 6 rounds is quickly changing after watching some pre-season training and reading this article. It appears that the issues of game plan and morale will take some weeks to heal, and it is probably reasonable to expect only 1 win in the first 6 weeks, and possibly only 3 in the first half of the season. I hope for better than this, but the path to improvement is starting from a long way back.

Pretty happy to read this quote from Rawlings this morning "We're pretty serious about the NAB Challenge, so you'll see a pretty strong side from us next week," Rawlings said. I don't think we have the luxury of trying things and rotating players through the preseason. This team is being rebuilt from scratch and we need as much time as possible to allow the players to get used to each other and the game plan. The situation is completely different to Roosy's first preseason at the swans and he's too smart not to know that. For me the scoreboard will be of interest but it won't be the most important measure of our preseason. I'll be hoping there isn't any of those patches that were all too common last year, where the opposition slam on 8 goals in a row as our boys go missing for 15 minutes to a quarter. With us playing 2 top 4 teams and a top 8 team from last year, getting through the preseason without any of those run ons from our opponents would be a serious improvement. So when multiple goals are scored against us i hope to see some sort of ability to shut the game down for a bit to stop them scoring. I'll also be looking to see some improvement in some key statistical measures. A team who gets so comprehensively towelled up in possession every week can't really hope to be competitive. We were last for average disposals, 40 less than the afl average and 16 less than GWS who were the next worst team. that's something akin to playing 2 players short every week. We need more ball, contested and uncontested so I'll be watching in the hope of seeing an improved ability to win contested ball and keep control of it once we've got it. The other stat that killed us last year was inside 50's. Equal last in the comp and way off the league average. With our potential (I know I hate that word too) froward line this year we need to get in inside 50 to give those blokes a chance. Given equal opportunity and supply I think our forward line could easily become one of the most potent in the league. The inside 50 differential will be an important thing to keep an eye on during the preseason to measure any improvement. We were last for centre clearances and need a much improved setup at centre bounces. I expect that to improve with Cross and Tyson coming in to help Nate Jones and take some pressure of Viney. George Stone could also prove to be a great recruit in this regard. I didn't see a lot of footy last year but I read here often that our rucks would tap the ball to their own feet. It's just a guess but I think this is a lack of confidence in their teammates ability to win the ball in the clear. I used to play a bit of ruck and just from personal experience if I thought we were outgunned in the guts I was loathe to tap the ball into space because it would usually fly off towards the oppositions goals. Anyway I'm pretty optimistic about the season ahead. There is plenty of improvement to be wrung out of this list and for now I've got faith in Roos and his coaching panel to be able to achieve it. Early losses won't bother me too much as long as they're not floggings.

This is what he did throughout his junior career, we didn't trade pick 2 for nothing and we also got Salem. Looks a good deal to me.

Poor Roosy. And that was just for putting Hogan in the Blue team. Imagine what Jesse will do to him if he doesn't get picked to play Rnd 1.

Three more things: I love Clisby as a player and have him ahead of Terlich. I haven't had Matt Jones in my side, but may have to re-think. He looked quick and more assured. I give him a hard time, but I thought McKenzie was very good.

Alright, I've seperated my report into two. Part two is quite the long one, live scoring and everything. Part 1: TGIF! Once again I'm spending this glorious time of the week at Gosch's to cover training again. Some general randomness as I always seem to include: Spent the time on the way playing Flappy Bird. Frustration levels on my Facebook feed has ranged from 186 to Mark Neeld's gameplan. It is far off the mark, I find it an enjoyable game. Okay so I get there and there's this huge cage that Fox FM are involved in. I don't know what it is, nor do I care. So I park myself on the outer wing nearest to Punt Road, for reasons of a) I want shade on this warm day, and b) prime viewing for match simulation. Byrnes, Nicholson and McDonald are first on the track, walking around. Others are gradually joining in. A bit of a crowd are gathering here at Gosch's. It looks like Clark, Riley, Garland (who's on the track, great to see) and Tapscott are the only ones not training/playing today. Jack Watts is NOT here, reasoning, crook. The crowd here is VERY decent. Boys have started off doing stretches, runthroughs and the like. Overheard from Gawn: 'Col (Garland) can you tell Dunny how good I am at intraclubs?' Expecting best on from Gawny now. Kent + JKH + Salem not doing stretches, runthroughs. Not entirely sure why. Judging by the fact that they are wearing training jumpers they should play in the intraclub. Let's hope so - three quality young players. It was a nice touch to see Salem talking to some of his family who are very supportive of him. Rehab: Tappy running laps, Clark jogging, Garland on the other track. Riley joins in with runthroughs. Great to see him progressing very well. Short kicks around the ground now. Drills to start with. Small group doing leads/contests inside 50, majority dojng contact work. Handball work on the wing. Moving on to kicks now. The boys aren't too vocal yet but wait till they play. This crowd at Gosch's is probably the biggest I have seen, probably even beating the time all the Demon Army came out to support the boys after Essendon whacked us last year. Next drill: short kick/handball/kick through the middle/goal. Clisby starts the drill then heads off to the group with JKH/Salem/Kent. Group moving through with ease through the middle. Couple of kicks missing the target however. One from Pedersen is an absolute shank which goed no higher than two metres in the air, then nutmegs Frawley with an awkward bounce. Better now than March, I guess. Dom Tyson is using the ball very well. He's been in some good form on the track and I'd love to see it in the intraclub today. Boys urged to lift their voice which is pretty disappointing at this level. Variation of this drill now. Good to see Dawes continuing to move with a lot of freedom. And he looks confident too. Taking marks overhead which has been a bit of a knock on him in years past. Gotta feel sorry for Max King doing ruck drills in front of me. In a Spencer/Jamar sandwich. Bloke is being treated like a battering ram. Voice is still more meek than previous sessions. It should be much louder. Boys called in. New drill I've seen, can't explain it too well... looks like stoppage then a kick inside 50. Imposing sight seeing Dawes and Hogan together in the goalsquare... even at training. At the other end there's a bit of stoppage work going on. Guy drives past shouting out 'YOU'RE [censored] MELBOURNE!' What a hero you are mate. Hogan moving with more freedom too. Looking alright to play next week I reckon. Boys called in again. Intraclub time...

Warm up drills: viney looks free, comfortable, and sharp Tappy doing rehab on his own The skills in some longer drills look very clean, not many kicks missing targets Dunne does a lot of talking, really leads the way in this Before the game they were doing the drill where players have to sprint all the way from fb just at the chance they might get a touch up the ground and it finishes with a goal and all 5 players pushing through ff. reinforcing a message before play I hope Kent is a great finisher on the run, would love to see him string some games together Grimey getting a fair bit of work on his lower back Viv has a huge frame and quality skills, A lot of the clearance drills end up with Vince having the final kick into fwd line No watts Jake spencers tap work has improved a lot, feeding the boys cleanly With jones and grimes on the same team, trenners addresses the other team pre game before leaving and not playing Dawes pulls out after drills Salems first kick hits Fitzy laces out, second kick hits toumpass out of the square laces out Boys clearly looking to go back and across out the other side every time they win the ball across half back Toump will be a high fwd when not on ball Viv looks super clean in congestion, very creative Very short out of back half, then long into the fifty Nicho 2 x turnovers kicking into fwd 50 Salems vision = wow Tom mc trying to run off pedo, pedo gets 2 inside 50 marks because tmac loses him in transition Toump 3 early goals in a row up fwd, dangerous Hogans work off the ball up fwd is massive, then misses easy set shot Heavy focus on working together and blocking while leading for kicks coming out of def 50 King beating jamar in taps multiple times, then outruns the lazy jamar into fwd 50 and goals Blease getting touches all over ground and good work rate JKH worked hard but could not find the ball, working to all the wrong places King great lead and mark at half fwd, then 50m pass hits jones Cross is brilliant, sometimes leads without calling to disguise it Vince getting a lot of it and creating every time Switch to Spencer at half back, takes his man on, has a bounce and hits Howe out of ff on the [censored] Nicho turnover switching across half back Nothing noticeable from Tyson other than a dropped sitter in def 50 Toump amazing kick in traffic opens up JKH running in and misses from 30m in front Ro bail very good, clean and creative in clearances Pedo has been good around half fwd, strong goal out of the ruck from a boundary throw Toump kicks his 4th while resting fwd from a lead mark Jetta hurt his shoulder, nicho did his ankle Finally, JKH gets it on fwd flank, steps in board around one and goals from 50, that's all i needed Bail lovely delivery to lead of Howe who marks and goals Tyson working into game, bout 8 touches in 5 min Spencer rag dolling king in taps but doing it well Impressive, Roos stops a centre bounce to educate blue team (spencer, michie, mckenzie, Salem) who then have a clean clearance as if the opposition werent there Ball has hardly gone up hogans end but when it has he's taken 3 marks in fifty, slotted one after the siren and got a big applause from the crowd here Impressive: king, spencer, bail, Vince, chip, toump, Salem Expected/hoped more: grimes, JKH, Went no good: nicho, Byrnes,

Will be a jet...... never doubted it Haha D'landers not shy to pass judgement early - Toump had zero support in yr 1, what is he 18/19 paying against men, in a team getting flogged with no real leaders on ground (apologies to Nat Jones & Garlo) not surprised he was low on confidence - hopefully as he and the team gets better we'll see the best of Toump

The surprising thing to me was that Roos was surprise at depth of the morale problem. Six wins out of 44 and numerous multiple goal thrashing would suggest to me they would be as low as snakes belly in a wagon rut.

Not how I read it ; he is communicating with those with sore heads ( wall-banging) and through transparency asking us to (a) recommit without going feral if it don't all go 100% from round 1 and return to our true love and (b) realise there is a plan and to have a little faith

Interesting parallel between Frawley and Roos himself at Fitzroy that I hadn't thought of before this article. If nothing else it's comforting to know that Roos will understand the delicacy of the situation through his own bitter experience. Having worked at a struggling company before, I too can relate to the "we've heard all this before" in response to promises of a brighter future and the lure of working somewhere you know is solid.

You are kidding. The penalties to date have been the least of Essendon's worries. A minor cosmetic touch up. The lack of legal standing of AFL rules in the Courts and the threat of drawn out legal battles means that the AFL has given them a slap on the wrist. Hird is still being paid $1m a year and will be back coaching ...apparently. This years coach Thompson had no idea as performance coach about the supplement program....and got a light financial touch up. And the Hird hero worshipping good Dr Reid is back at work as usual..... For the sake of the players good health I hope ASADA can piece together what went on in the lab and those who should have been brought to account are punished and removed from the game. But I am not confident that will happen.

This Paul Roos bloke seems to know what he is doing.

I agree Tunbridge. it's all a bit touchy with the Greeks and the Ottomans. A bit overblown I agree. Just a small issue based around the fall of Contantinople and the end of the Roman Empire but then maybe stuff going back to 1453 can't be compared to the bitter rivalries of Melbourne versus Collingwood going back to the 50's.

This is actually a pic of roos from his first session at the dees when he saw us try and defend as a unit

The funniest thing of the morning was when Jesse Hogan inadvertently whacked into Paul Roos who was trying to show him correct body positioning in a pre-training drill and Roosy went down like a spud - at first I thought he got him in cods but length of time Roosy was on ground or keeled over suggested in the ribs. Hogan was very apologetic at time. Was there a link to the fact that he was selected in the the clearly inferior Blue team and just wanted to make a point to the old fella? Doubtful, but there's no doubt Roosy will remember him come selection this week. What was impressive is that the guys trained for nearly 80 minutes before the scratch match got underway - all up they got a very long session. Viney and Dawes did the early drills but did not play while Wattsy had gastro. Tappy did sprints away from main group. A few notes on game: The white side had virtually Roosy's entire top midfield and were really only not allowed five players who you would think would be in the ones next Friday - Howe, Spencer, Hogan, T-Mac and Dunn. The two surprise players who got a crack at defence in the so-callled ones were Georgiou, who played on Hogan, and Nicho, who played on Kent most of the time. Georgiou actually did OK and linked up well with Chipper and Grimes. Nicho, for those of you who love to bag him on this medium, had a very ordinary morning - a shocking entry into the forward line and caught badly by Kent on a couple of occasions. Given I'm not a Nicho basher and liked his game on Griffo last year, I had him pencilled in as being our tag man for Jack Steven in Rd 1, but it's fair to say he blew it badly. I now think Bail or Jordie will get the tagger role in Rd 1 - but that's still a long way off with three games to play before then. Two key things that I don't think have been mentioned yet. 1) Blease got a nice intercept in second term and was about to run on to the ball and have a big chance of scoring when Roosy stepped in and gave the ball to the defensive side - think it was Salem. Why he chose to pick on Bleasey is interesting, especially given this thread always bags him for selfishness and lack of fitness. But it would appear Roosy also picks on Bleasey too. I would suggest he's trying to make him really earn his spot the hard way. Certainly Blease and Kent were the only two livewire presences on the blue side today and the only ones other than five who I have mentioned already, who would be likely to make the cut for the Richmond game. 2) Roosy wanted Howey to get more ball so sent him to FF, swapping with Grimesy early in third term. Quite obviously Howey will be starting as a key forward on Friday. Significantly he did not allow Hogan any such luxury of a switch late in the game - maybe he was still reeling form the bump to the ribs! I could go on about game and people have already gone on about Salem's first term today. While I doubt it will change Roosy's plans for bringing Salem into the seniors in a hurry, it may have given Roosy at least cause to think that a debut about Rd 5, rather than Rd 15, may be appropriate if shows his skills at Casey early. But based on what I saw, our likely 24 (I think that's right number for NAB challenge) is as follows: Midfielders: N.Jones, Cross, Vince, Tyson, Watts, Bail, Toumpas Defenders: Frawley, T-Mac, Grimes, Dunn, Georgiou, Terlich (who just pips Strauss and Clisby) Tall Forwards: Howe, Hogan, Pederson Small forwards: Kent, Blease and hopefully JKH Rucks: Spencil and Gawn Assuming fit add Trenners, Fitzy and Viney (he will be into Roosy this week I'm sure). But I suspect three extras will be Michie, Strauss and M.Jones. Definitely out injured: Garland, Dawes, Clark.

Jimmy's second goal was a pearler from 50m out. Hit it so sweet - travelled close to 60m I reckon. I've always been suspect of Toumpas with his long kicking. No concerns after today. He'll kick goals this year.

Can't think of a Top 6 team that doesn't do short chips across defence to switch and then kick long to uncontested player on the run, rather than Neeld's kick long out of defence to a contest on the boundary line and then hope and pray that you are able to knock it over the line for a throw in that you are more likely than not to lose.

Post less, think more Toady. Quality over quantity.

Chip will put success before cash, unless we are stupid enough to let him name his price. He's loyal, but not to the point of stupidity. Who'd blame him? Would anyone here put their struggling workplace above their own personal success and goals? It sums up the MFC at the moment. Show some success on field or die. We can opine to our biased heart's content and beat our chests as much as we want, but at the end of the day (or season, as the case may be), any player of substance just wants to see success and play with their mates. As PJ said, culture and list management wins premierships. Throw heaps of cash around and you may not necessarily get success. Get wins, develop culture and you have a better chance at a flag. You can't expect talented players to blindly commit without the club having some runs on the board in terms of wins and management.

Who are you people? Do you live in a caravan? Are you annoyed you can't get analogue channels on your shitty old tv anymore?

We've been playing in the State guernsey for the years except for one slight variation - it's a red V and not a white one.

Can't blame the Monk for this one but its funny

Morrison himself under questioning on this issue said there was capsicum spray used to subdue some people after the boarding. It was thought then some refugees may have fallen on the engine exhaust. That is the official OZ view. So yes some heavy handed action did occur it seems. In the end it is the vacuum of facts coming from our end that hands the political ground to your competitors.

Hannibal I will go with what SPCmanagement has put on the record, thanks. Sloane has zero credibility, she just follows company orders. But really what the SPC workers are earning is a furphy. The real problem is the high dollar, the EU dumping canned fruit here at below cost and of course a plant badly in need of modernisation.

I still think it gets back to supply and demand. We have a rising demand for IT skills, plumbers, electricians, engineers, you name it. We have failed miserably in the last 30 years to train enough of them. We have brought in large numbers of skilled migrants but it is still not enough to meet demand. Those skills are in short supply and at the moment there is no competition from overseas but it will come one day in the engineering consulting area perhaps. There are thousands of trained professionals in India and China looking for opportunities here so one day that will happen and costs will likely fall. Basic trades I think will hold there price because parents still urge their kids to get a degree while the real opportunities could be in the trades. Demand for the right trades will remain high and they will be paid well. Governments made the decisions in the 80's to sell off, or break up the big utilities, SECV, Gas and Fuel, MMBW for efficiency reasons but there was always going to be a cost, training. These state government organisations as well as other subsidised companies such as GMH did all the apprentiships and Graduate Engineer placements. Once they were nobbled the 80's

Biff we all know we need to bring back Workchoices mark 2. If we can just take the big stick to the SPC types, the cleaners who cant speak english well, the casual workers, I reckon we turn the whole economy around. I am sure the employer associations, with all their experience and knowledge, could not be wrong. They would know the real reasons why we struggle in so many industries. Nothing to do with the high dollar, under investment in capital improvement, f*** all investment in skills and training, f***all innovation, leadership and whatever. This is what is holding us back, these semi skilled fat cats!

1. Under what criteria is SPC 'inefficient'? Please state them. 2. Why is the first port of call 'workers pay and conditions'? In a statement today by CCA/SPC, their managing director said it had made "significant improvements" in productivity in recent times and had cut jobs by a third. "Our employees are aware of the critical and urgent need to transform our business and the majority have responded in practical and financial ways to lift productivity to help secure our long-term future in the Goulburn Valley." He said its problems were not from labour costs or productivity, but rather a high dollar which hurt exports and allowed a "flood" of cheap imports since 2009. "In that period market share of private label canned fruit grew to 58 per cent today, while SPC Ardmona canned fruit share declined to 33 per cent. Our export market volumes declined by 90 per cent in the past five years. Other Abbott government claims were rejected by the company in a statement claiming to provide "the facts on workers' allowances". It said there was little overtime at SPC Ardmona, and the company had in 2012 reduced redundancy provisions and stopped sick leave from being cashed out. It also denied claims that workers get nine weeks of paid leave a year, saying they are paid 20 days annual leave while rostered days off are accrued throughout the year so they will not be taken at peak season. Stone has called out Abbott and Abetz over their statements about SPC worker's conditions, which are basically incorrect. What caused the high dollar? Probably the resources boom and the large cash inflow from foreign investors, overseas currency speculation linked to high interest rates, incentives to invest in property such as first-home buyers grants and negative gearing pushing up housing prices. How is SPC, along with other primary manufacturing exporters, going to manage that? Third-world wages? Is that all you can come up with? IMHO, what we're seeing with SPC may be a classic case of 'Dutch disease' ... the massive increase in resources spending has coincided with a decline in manufacturing and agriculture, because the increase in revenues from natural resources or inflows of foreign investment makes the currency stronger. So our other exports become more expensive, making our manufacturing sector less competitive. I'm not suggesting the company should be 'bailed out' at all. But there may be a case for some assistance until conditions are more favourable. The lessening of the mining boom will lower the dollar, perhaps down to sustainable levels for companies such as SPC. Do we take the punt and let them disappear, or bide time for a few more years in hope? If CCA closes SPC, what would be your plan, as a 'rightist', for the fall-out in Shepparton, the Goulburn Valley and its thousands of growers? Total apathy under your dry economic model? Just allow imports to increase to 100% because overseas producers are 'efficient' (i.e. have a better exchange rate)? $25 milllion might be cheap by comparison.

A sub forum for stuie only where he can argue with himself continuously?